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On June 29 2012 17:53 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 15:15 power-overwhelming wrote:
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
The most "objective" (I put it in quotation marks, because even deciding on what measure to use is certainly subjective) way to identify the supposed best player in the world is to see who wins the most important, most difficult, and most respected tournament available. Currently, that tournament is the GSL (sorry MLG fans, hard to argue with this). Even if you win a handful of MLGs, no reign sounds legitimate without a GSL title. When Mvp won last season's GSL, he was the best player at the time. It doesn't matter how he won; he was the champion, and beat the 3 best players in his weakest matchup, in arguably their best matchups. However, after his defeat the other day, Mvp is no longer the best player. That title is once again up for grabs. Sheesh guys lighten up
That is a massive oversimplification.
Oh, and in interviews MVP said that he was more confident in TvP than TvZ, and he did better in it than TvT too. The reason he won last season was because he knew how to abuse the shit out of Protoss more than anyone else. He turned macro games into huge all-ins in the matter of seconds vs Parting. He mindgamed the fuck out of Squirtle, and he cut through Naniwa's greediness with ease. He understood the matchup better than every other Terran, that is why he won. Not saying that makes him a worse player, just putting it into context from my standpoint. He very rarely outplayed the Protoss in pure mechanics, which is why he is struggling in TvT and TvZ - in neither of those can you rely on sheer force of will and mindgames over macro and micro any more.
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On June 29 2012 15:42 FuRong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 12:04 neoghaleon55 wrote:Can someone translate what MKP is saying here? 이정훈 @MKPS2
정찰해두 테란 생더블로 저그 노스포삼햇 못죽입니다.. Even if you scout it, there's no way for Terran to beat two hatch before pool if you go CC first (생더블 is usually used for Protoss 15 Nex builds, but I assume it means CC first when it refers to Terran)
Thanks for this 
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This group.. was better than many gsl finals. I saw it live but i was distracted a few times, i'm going to watch it again in the vods.
Always been rooting for MC, i hope he wins this GSL.
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On June 29 2012 18:05 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 17:53 lichter wrote:On June 29 2012 15:15 power-overwhelming wrote:
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
The most "objective" (I put it in quotation marks, because even deciding on what measure to use is certainly subjective) way to identify the supposed best player in the world is to see who wins the most important, most difficult, and most respected tournament available. Currently, that tournament is the GSL (sorry MLG fans, hard to argue with this). Even if you win a handful of MLGs, no reign sounds legitimate without a GSL title. When Mvp won last season's GSL, he was the best player at the time. It doesn't matter how he won; he was the champion, and beat the 3 best players in his weakest matchup, in arguably their best matchups. However, after his defeat the other day, Mvp is no longer the best player. That title is once again up for grabs. Sheesh guys lighten up That is a massive oversimplification. Oh, and in interviews MVP said that he was more confident in TvP than TvZ, and he did better in it than TvT too. The reason he won last season was because he knew how to abuse the shit out of Protoss more than anyone else. He turned macro games into huge all-ins in the matter of seconds vs Parting. He mindgamed the fuck out of Squirtle, and he cut through Naniwa's greediness with ease. He understood the matchup better than every other Terran, that is why he won. Not saying that makes him a worse player, just putting it into context from my standpoint. He very rarely outplayed the Protoss in pure mechanics, which is why he is struggling in TvT and TvZ - in neither of those can you rely on sheer force of will and mindgames over macro and micro any more.
MVP won because he's 4x the player of those wannabes. 4 titles prove it. He micro better, macro better, brained better, and just outplayed those protoss. Honestly parting and squirtle are pretty one demseional. Squirtle doesnt even have champion micro and can never hold 11-11. Nani was just out classed and fell apart.
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On June 29 2012 11:58 Coolness53 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 10:50 tdt wrote:
Because MC is best player in the world. That's right over DRG MVP and all the rest. He plays a very underrepresented race and dominates. It's no accident he was picked almost last and players made thier fear known dispite crappy GSL results last year. I think MC is up there and you have a right to your opinion...That is a bold statement. MC is one of the best I will say that for sure...The best player in the world overall...I would have to give that title to the reigning four time champion MVP...For this current year I would have to give it up to DRG. Though wouldn't it be cool if MC vs DRG finals happened O_O;..
I just think protoss posts weak results ...see here lack of green.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_League
And only shinning star in in lack of green is MC as opposed to rotating red and blue kings. Besides that MC tought every protoss almost everything they know. Partings awesome storms is nothing new see TSL 3 MC vs Thorzain. Air play vs Zerg... All the one two and three base all ins. MC invented them. HerO is another great innovator but fails to post results unfortunatly, but yep of course it's my opinion. although I would not object to anyone saying MVP, MKP, Nestea, DRG,or MC are best SC2 players.
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Anyone else a bit surprised that MKP didn't advance?
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On June 29 2012 18:00 SeaSwift wrote:
The most skilled player in the world, as of right now, is undoubtedly DRG.
As for Protoss, MC can win when no other Protoss can in situations when every other Protoss would roll over and die. At the same time, he can still lose to pretty much anyone in Code S/A. I don't know how people can deny that he is the best Protoss at the moment, in terms of skill (game 2 Squirtle vs MC) or accomplishments (having more prize money than the next 5 Protoss players combined).
Seems like any protoss can die to anyone. Simple fact of the matter is first 20 min once you lose those overpriced heavy hitting big hit point units game is usually decided. There is no back and forth like tvz. One battle usually decides game. Just way game is designed. That's also why fully going 3 base protoss is so strong, when they can replenish like a zerg - better units.
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On June 29 2012 19:02 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:05 SeaSwift wrote:On June 29 2012 17:53 lichter wrote:On June 29 2012 15:15 power-overwhelming wrote:
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
The most "objective" (I put it in quotation marks, because even deciding on what measure to use is certainly subjective) way to identify the supposed best player in the world is to see who wins the most important, most difficult, and most respected tournament available. Currently, that tournament is the GSL (sorry MLG fans, hard to argue with this). Even if you win a handful of MLGs, no reign sounds legitimate without a GSL title. When Mvp won last season's GSL, he was the best player at the time. It doesn't matter how he won; he was the champion, and beat the 3 best players in his weakest matchup, in arguably their best matchups. However, after his defeat the other day, Mvp is no longer the best player. That title is once again up for grabs. Sheesh guys lighten up That is a massive oversimplification. Oh, and in interviews MVP said that he was more confident in TvP than TvZ, and he did better in it than TvT too. The reason he won last season was because he knew how to abuse the shit out of Protoss more than anyone else. He turned macro games into huge all-ins in the matter of seconds vs Parting. He mindgamed the fuck out of Squirtle, and he cut through Naniwa's greediness with ease. He understood the matchup better than every other Terran, that is why he won. Not saying that makes him a worse player, just putting it into context from my standpoint. He very rarely outplayed the Protoss in pure mechanics, which is why he is struggling in TvT and TvZ - in neither of those can you rely on sheer force of will and mindgames over macro and micro any more. MVP won because he's 4x the player of those wannabes. 4 titles prove it. He micro better, macro better, brained better, and just outplayed those protoss. Honestly parting and squirtle are pretty one demseional. Squirtle doesnt even have champion micro and can never hold 11-11. Nani was just out classed and fell apart.
lol, did you just say "he brained better"?
thats awesome. i have to add that one into my repertoire.
"hey pretty girl, what are braining about?"
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On June 29 2012 19:41 IntoTheheart wrote:
Anyone else a bit surprised that MKP didn't advance?
Mhm not really surprised, had expected him at 3rd or 2nd. Def a surprise to see him go 4th though.
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On June 29 2012 19:02 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 18:05 SeaSwift wrote:On June 29 2012 17:53 lichter wrote:On June 29 2012 15:15 power-overwhelming wrote:
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
The most "objective" (I put it in quotation marks, because even deciding on what measure to use is certainly subjective) way to identify the supposed best player in the world is to see who wins the most important, most difficult, and most respected tournament available. Currently, that tournament is the GSL (sorry MLG fans, hard to argue with this). Even if you win a handful of MLGs, no reign sounds legitimate without a GSL title. When Mvp won last season's GSL, he was the best player at the time. It doesn't matter how he won; he was the champion, and beat the 3 best players in his weakest matchup, in arguably their best matchups. However, after his defeat the other day, Mvp is no longer the best player. That title is once again up for grabs. Sheesh guys lighten up That is a massive oversimplification. Oh, and in interviews MVP said that he was more confident in TvP than TvZ, and he did better in it than TvT too. The reason he won last season was because he knew how to abuse the shit out of Protoss more than anyone else. He turned macro games into huge all-ins in the matter of seconds vs Parting. He mindgamed the fuck out of Squirtle, and he cut through Naniwa's greediness with ease. He understood the matchup better than every other Terran, that is why he won. Not saying that makes him a worse player, just putting it into context from my standpoint. He very rarely outplayed the Protoss in pure mechanics, which is why he is struggling in TvT and TvZ - in neither of those can you rely on sheer force of will and mindgames over macro and micro any more. MVP won because he's 4x the player of those wannabes. 4 titles prove it. He micro better, macro better, brained better, and just outplayed those protoss. Honestly parting and squirtle are pretty one demseional. Squirtle doesnt even have champion micro and can never hold 11-11. Nani was just out classed and fell apart.
Lmao so when Inca cheesed his way to the finals last year was it the same reason? HGe micro better, macro better, brained better and just outplayed Nada? I mean Inca and MVP did the same thing, cheese. But no Inca was bashed for using DTs even though DT is so much easier to stop than Terran cheese.
Like I said, Terran Bias. I HAVE NOTHING against cheesing to win. I believe its a respectable way to win. What I don't like is when one player gets bashed for doing it but then MVP gets praised for it. It's like saying condoning a 16 year old for raping but praising justin bieber for doing the same.
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On June 30 2012 05:13 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 19:02 tdt wrote:On June 29 2012 18:05 SeaSwift wrote:On June 29 2012 17:53 lichter wrote:On June 29 2012 15:15 power-overwhelming wrote:
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
The most "objective" (I put it in quotation marks, because even deciding on what measure to use is certainly subjective) way to identify the supposed best player in the world is to see who wins the most important, most difficult, and most respected tournament available. Currently, that tournament is the GSL (sorry MLG fans, hard to argue with this). Even if you win a handful of MLGs, no reign sounds legitimate without a GSL title. When Mvp won last season's GSL, he was the best player at the time. It doesn't matter how he won; he was the champion, and beat the 3 best players in his weakest matchup, in arguably their best matchups. However, after his defeat the other day, Mvp is no longer the best player. That title is once again up for grabs. Sheesh guys lighten up That is a massive oversimplification. Oh, and in interviews MVP said that he was more confident in TvP than TvZ, and he did better in it than TvT too. The reason he won last season was because he knew how to abuse the shit out of Protoss more than anyone else. He turned macro games into huge all-ins in the matter of seconds vs Parting. He mindgamed the fuck out of Squirtle, and he cut through Naniwa's greediness with ease. He understood the matchup better than every other Terran, that is why he won. Not saying that makes him a worse player, just putting it into context from my standpoint. He very rarely outplayed the Protoss in pure mechanics, which is why he is struggling in TvT and TvZ - in neither of those can you rely on sheer force of will and mindgames over macro and micro any more. MVP won because he's 4x the player of those wannabes. 4 titles prove it. He micro better, macro better, brained better, and just outplayed those protoss. Honestly parting and squirtle are pretty one demseional. Squirtle doesnt even have champion micro and can never hold 11-11. Nani was just out classed and fell apart. Lmao so when Inca cheesed his way to the finals last year was it the same reason? HGe micro better, macro better, brained better and just outplayed Nada? I mean Inca and MVP did the same thing, cheese. But no Inca was bashed for using DTs even though DT is so much easier to stop than Terran cheese. Like I said, Terran Bias. I HAVE NOTHING against cheesing to win. I believe its a respectable way to win. What I don't like is when one player gets bashed for doing it but then MVP gets praised for it. It's like saying condoning a 16 year old for raping but praising justin bieber for doing the same.
People love cheese from MVP and hate cheese from inca for good reasons. Mvp has shown that he is extremely good at mind games, macro games, game mechanics, and decision making. The addition of cheese to his already vast library of skills adds another dimension to his playstyle, and is an indication of how well he understands the game.
Inca cheesed, cheeses, and always will cheese. In the finals, cheesed an failed 4 games in a row. Having only 1 strategy shows you have a low understanding of the game, and thats why people hate the fact he got high results.
To use your example it would be like praising Dr. Dre for making catchy song versus nickelback for making a catchy song.
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On June 30 2012 05:13 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 19:02 tdt wrote:On June 29 2012 18:05 SeaSwift wrote:On June 29 2012 17:53 lichter wrote:On June 29 2012 15:15 power-overwhelming wrote:
Accomplishments from this year? MVP is not even top 5 like I said. We don't base people's achievement from last year in this kinda argument. That was my whole point. Cheese is not a legitimate indication of players skill. If so then that proves my point in bias as most protosses (MC especially) get labeled as skilless and only won 2 GSLs from all inning/cheese. Of course MVP gets special treatment for that. Terrans usually do lol
The most "objective" (I put it in quotation marks, because even deciding on what measure to use is certainly subjective) way to identify the supposed best player in the world is to see who wins the most important, most difficult, and most respected tournament available. Currently, that tournament is the GSL (sorry MLG fans, hard to argue with this). Even if you win a handful of MLGs, no reign sounds legitimate without a GSL title. When Mvp won last season's GSL, he was the best player at the time. It doesn't matter how he won; he was the champion, and beat the 3 best players in his weakest matchup, in arguably their best matchups. However, after his defeat the other day, Mvp is no longer the best player. That title is once again up for grabs. Sheesh guys lighten up That is a massive oversimplification. Oh, and in interviews MVP said that he was more confident in TvP than TvZ, and he did better in it than TvT too. The reason he won last season was because he knew how to abuse the shit out of Protoss more than anyone else. He turned macro games into huge all-ins in the matter of seconds vs Parting. He mindgamed the fuck out of Squirtle, and he cut through Naniwa's greediness with ease. He understood the matchup better than every other Terran, that is why he won. Not saying that makes him a worse player, just putting it into context from my standpoint. He very rarely outplayed the Protoss in pure mechanics, which is why he is struggling in TvT and TvZ - in neither of those can you rely on sheer force of will and mindgames over macro and micro any more. MVP won because he's 4x the player of those wannabes. 4 titles prove it. He micro better, macro better, brained better, and just outplayed those protoss. Honestly parting and squirtle are pretty one demseional. Squirtle doesnt even have champion micro and can never hold 11-11. Nani was just out classed and fell apart. Lmao so when Inca cheesed his way to the finals last year was it the same reason? HGe micro better, macro better, brained better and just outplayed Nada? I mean Inca and MVP did the same thing, cheese. But no Inca was bashed for using DTs even though DT is so much easier to stop than Terran cheese. Like I said, Terran Bias. I HAVE NOTHING against cheesing to win. I believe its a respectable way to win. What I don't like is when one player gets bashed for doing it but then MVP gets praised for it. It's like saying condoning a 16 year old for raping but praising justin bieber for doing the same.
Not. At. All. Inca was much more one dimensional that season and was mostly just lucky + people were bad, MVP's plays were much better in that regard. His mind games were much better and put up against a much more solid play-style, and when his cheeses got shut down he could actually play standard; when Inca's got shut down he looked like a mid-master's toss floundering against Nestea.
However, you're right, Inca got too much shit for it. It's a game played to win, you should use any available legitimate resource to do so, even if it's cheesy, imbalanced, etc. MVP is a fan favorite, he's someone people want to do well, whereas Inca is the exact opposite. It has nothing to do with Terran bias.
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On June 29 2012 18:00 SeaSwift wrote:
The most skilled player in the world, as of right now, is undoubtedly DRG.
As for Protoss, MC can win when no other Protoss can in situations when every other Protoss would roll over and die. At the same time, he can still lose to pretty much anyone in Code S/A. I don't know how people can deny that he is the best Protoss at the moment, in terms of skill (game 2 Squirtle vs MC) or accomplishments (having more prize money than the next 5 Protoss players combined).
True that. I'm not even sure if he's practicing that hard lately but he just does it whenever it matters!
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MC is really showed why he is the BOSS. Sickest blink control!!! Jaw dropped!!!!
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On June 28 2012 20:09 Talack wrote:
I didn't think MC played well in any of the games tonight, more-so the opposing player playing poorly and making critical mistakes.
Good things MC lucked his way to being #1 money winner in SC2 and having a fine ass gf. some guys have all the luck hater. 
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On June 30 2012 16:40 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 20:09 Talack wrote:
I didn't think MC played well in any of the games tonight, more-so the opposing player playing poorly and making critical mistakes. Good things MC lucked his way to being #1 money winner in SC2 and having a fine ass gf. some guys have all the luck hater.
I'd be mad too if my fav player gets 0-2'd especially after a failed all-in in game 1 and getting all-inned in game 2.
I'd be even madder if my fav player 4 gates MC's 2gate robo with artosis pylon getting taken down AND STILL loses, then proceeds on losing the next game.
Hell, I'd be the maddest at MC for being so lucky. Damn MC and his luck
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I swear to god, wolf can NEVER tell who is going to win a fight. He always words his predictions as objective observations and is consistently wrong.
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Come on dont be hard on Wolf, who would think MC could have won that game after the artosis pylon is gone???!!! It was magic, sickest micro fight ever. I would have gg'ed like 5 times if I were MC.
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EPT
