Semis, Finals Broadcast will begin at 20:30 GMT (+00:00) Apollo and InControl will be casting the Ro8 starting at 18:00 GMT (+00:00)
Registration closes on Thursday, Jun 21 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Check in begins on Thursday, Jun 21 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Check-in closes in Thursday, Jun 21 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) Tournament begins on Thursday, Jun 21 9:15am GMT (GMT+00:00)
General Registration Requirements 1. You must have access to a Korean Battle.net StarCraft 2 account. 2. You must have chosen to participate in the KR Qualifiers to the exclusion of the EU/NA Qualifiers. 3. You must be a national and resident of Korea. 4. You must be be registered and logged into your TL account to register and play. 5. Fill in your account details in your TL profile. Make sure they are correct for the server (KR).
In TSL3, three of the semi-finalists in the first TLOpen finished in the semi-finals of the TSL itself! This TLOpen could foreshadow everything! Check TL's YouTube Channel for the previous casts of all the past TSL qualifiers (for nostalgia) and all TLOpens!
Tournament Size The bracket will be open to 1024 players.
Maps and Rules Map pool is Antiga Shipyard, ESV Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Entombed Valley, Korhal Compound TE, Metropolis LE, and ESV Ohana. The map line-up will be released along with the bracket. For specific information as to the changes made to the maps, please see the map announcements thread. For easy reference: Antiga is cross-spawn only, and horizontal spawns have been disabled on Entombed. No other spawns are changed.
Only host games on maps tagged "TSL4" authored by "Axel" on the KR Server.
Making on fake TSL4 maps authored by unknown users may compromise the result of the game, and at the very least will lead to a colossal mess.
All Rounds Best-of-3 Every round for this tournament will be best-of-3.
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is it just me or is is the tournament giving me a error saying that registration is closed. It doesn't look like it gives a time for when it does open for registration. Cause I don't want end up on the waiting list like last time haha ^^
It seemed silly to do the notable thing for this tournament because so many of the partially-unknown players were still really legitimate, so we just have nearly everyone set to notable.
Also reminder that all replays will be posted as soon as we get them, similar to last week. Put a note in the OP for it, this time we will also have a calender event so that casters can take those and commentate games attached to the event if they would like.
On June 21 2012 17:18 Hardigan wrote: where can you see the players lineup? When i click on the bracket, it says that the tournament hasn't started yet
On June 21 2012 17:18 Hardigan wrote: where can you see the players lineup? When i click on the bracket, it says that the tournament hasn't started yet
For the love of god please qualify YongHwa, rise up above from your status of a Code B-onjwa and show that you are capable of being one of the best Protoss!
On June 21 2012 19:36 Dodgin wrote: Inca beat Symbol?
My reality = shattered, wtf.
D...T.... :D it just has to be! Im at work so cant check the replays yet, but someone confirm this plox xD
I only skimmed Game 3 (since it was the decider) but no DT's, Inca just plays very solidly and hits a nice pre-Hive timing that sets Symbol back a long way, then holds the ultra bane counter pressure and uses multi prong aggression to press home his advantage into a win.
On June 21 2012 19:36 Dodgin wrote: Inca beat Symbol?
My reality = shattered, wtf.
D...T.... :D it just has to be! Im at work so cant check the replays yet, but someone confirm this plox xD
I only skimmed Game 3 (since it was the decider) but no DT's, Inca just plays very solidly and hits a nice pre-Hive timing that sets Symbol back a long way, then holds the ultra bane counter pressure and uses multi prong aggression to press home his advantage into a win.
On June 21 2012 19:36 Dodgin wrote: Inca beat Symbol?
My reality = shattered, wtf.
D...T.... :D it just has to be! Im at work so cant check the replays yet, but someone confirm this plox xD
I'll watch them and report back.
game 1 entombed valley - 31:43 long
inca opens nexus first into forge then stargate, symbol goes fast 3 hatch ( 3rd hatch at 3:50 )
inca's 4 gate +1 zealot void ray pressure fails to do much, takes a third base and robo.
symbol goes for a hydra den after holding the attack.
symbol takes 4th at 10:30, creep spread is sick for symbol like 5 queens spreading it.
symbol attacks with roach hydra vs gateway units and some immortals.
symbol turns around without committing to the engagement. starts hive and builds 22 MORE HYDRAS WUT
forces inca's 4th to cancel with hydras, symbols army dies.
inca tries to counter across the map, gets cleaned up by ling/hydra/infestor.
greater spire on the way. mothership pops out at 18:00
symbol puts down an ultra cavern and goes ultra/baneling instead of BL's
they fight at inca's 4th, vortex x2 gets off and it's a pretty even trade with inca's base staying alive and losing less units. mothership dies in the fight.
symbol remaxes and attack the 4th again with ling/bane and kills it, that nexus was also building the next mothership and it dies before it gets out.
symbol on 6 bases to inca's 3.
symbol remaxes on bl/infestor, was upgrading to 3-3 air in the background. rolls ace over as his 4th comes back up and mothership pops out again.
On June 21 2012 19:36 Dodgin wrote: Inca beat Symbol?
My reality = shattered, wtf.
D...T.... :D it just has to be! Im at work so cant check the replays yet, but someone confirm this plox xD
I'll watch them and report back.
game 1 entombed valley - 31:43 long
inca opens nexus first into forge then stargate, symbol goes fast 3 hatch ( 3rd hatch at 3:50 )
inca's 4 gate +1 zealot void ray pressure fails to do much, takes a third base and robo.
symbol goes for a hydra den after holding the attack.
symbol takes 4th at 10:30, creep spread is sick for symbol like 5 queens spreading it.
symbol attacks with roach hydra vs gateway units and some immortals.
symbol turns around without committing to the engagement. starts hive and builds 22 MORE HYDRAS WUT
forces inca's 4th to cancel with hydras, symbols army dies.
inca tries to counter across the map, gets cleaned up by ling/hydra/infestor.
greater spire on the way. mothership pops out at 18:00
symbol puts down an ultra cavern and goes ultra/baneling instead of BL's
they fight at inca's 4th, vortex x2 gets off and it's a pretty even trade with inca's base staying alive and losing less units. mothership dies in the fight.
symbol remaxes and attack the 4th again with ling/bane and kills it, that nexus was also building the next mothership and it dies before it gets out.
symbol on 6 bases to inca's 3.
symbol remaxes on bl/infestor, was upgrading to 3-3 air in the background. rolls ace over as his 4th comes back up and mothership pops out again.
symbol wins game 1
ok watching game 2 now
game 2 antiga shipyard - 23:33
inca opens gateway into zealot pressure instead of FFE
zealots force a lot of lings but dont kill much, inca expands off one gate.
symbol counters with the lings he made, gets a few into the main and pulls probes off mining, kills 4 probes.
symbol takes his third at 7:50, also adds a macro hatch.
inca attacking across the map at an odd timing and kills the third for free with sentry/zealot, symbol chases the army back across the map and kills all but two sentrys.
inca going blink and +2, attacks across the map with an apparently two base all in with mostly stalkers and a few sentrys.
kills the rocks at the third, walks up onto the highground and kills enough units to force symbol to sack the base, inca for some reason leaves the hatch alive at 38 hp and goes for the natural, gets pushed back when burrow finishes and he has no observer.
inca still no third at 16:30, finally takes it at 18:30 after trying to continue his all-in but gets pushed back again.
hatch still alive with 50 hp drones mining...
robo bay for inca, +3 done. symbol commits to an attack of his own with roach/ling and kills inca's third but loses a lot of units.
immortals out now and inca attacks back across the map, inca finally snipes the low hp third and backs out. retakes his third
symbol pretty much all-in on roach/ling off 2 base. tries to counter attack but colossus are out. loses his whole army and GG's.
inca wins game 2.
----------
not going to go over game 3 since asha already watched and posted about it.
so in conclusion, inca wins 2-1 against symbol the god without using dt's, reality still shattered.
Creator vs. Whale game 3 was interesting. Cute little moves with the Carriers and such, hilarious how many spores and spines Whale had. Loved how Creator was unrelenting in his Carrier production.
Wait wtf, you've got to be kidding me. twitch is blocked in China or something......I was looking forward so much to waching squirtle play and he's been maing a run T_T hero's already out which is unfortunate, but I wanted to see squirtle then...sigh.
On June 21 2012 22:38 Aerisky wrote: Wait wtf, you've got to be kidding me. twitch is blocked in China or something......I was looking forward so much to waching squirtle play and he's been maing a run T_T hero's already out which is unfortunate, but I wanted to see squirtle then...sigh.
On June 21 2012 22:52 Bagration wrote: Has Coca vs Monster been played yet? Pulling for Coca to win this one. The guy needs a lucky break
Pretty sure the games are being played, but the results won't be known for a while since the bracket won't be updated until the RO8+ games are cast in 4 hours. Coca will probably need some luck though seeing as Monster just went through a Korean zerg gauntlet last weekend.
I'm already replay deprived too, wanted to see RO8 replays before going to sleep but obviously that won't happen. TT
On June 21 2012 22:07 GTR wrote: Nice to see Salmosa making progress. I remember him sucking (compared to other players) in BW back in the day (2002ish).
On June 21 2012 22:10 heyoka wrote: Is that the same guy? His BW TLPD dates back to 2000.
I'm kind of fascinated by this guy, and I really want to know what his deal is. According to TLPD and Liquipedia, it is the same guy--a 29-year-old brood war player who retired way back in 2005 and vanished until this year. But I don't know where that information came from, so I guess it could be wrong. He was on the bench for Prime's last GSTL game though (didn't play), and he definitely looked a lot older than everyone else. But whenever I see a Prime-related hype thread or LR, nobody seems to know anything about him. Neither did Doa when he cast some Salmosa games in IPL TAC--he just went off TLPD.
Anyway, being on the old side (for an SC2 fan) myself, I'm always intrigued by these older progamers. And this guy's resurfacing is interesting because it seems so random. I'd love to know what the story is, where he disappeared to for 7 years and why he came back now.
Does anybody know the reasons why the korean TL players are not trying to qualify? I mean it's the league of their team, why wouldn't they want to compete in it.
On June 21 2012 23:32 Sandermatt wrote: Does anybody know the reasons why the korean TL players are not trying to qualify? I mean it's the league of their team, why wouldn't they want to compete in it.
Taeja just played his GSL group, so I guess he would have wanted some rest after that. Don't know about Hero or Zenio though
Edit: Apparently Hero and Zenio participated as well
On June 21 2012 23:32 Sandermatt wrote: Does anybody know the reasons why the korean TL players are not trying to qualify? I mean it's the league of their team, why wouldn't they want to compete in it.
Hero played, Zenio was all signed up but apparently didn't end up playing his match for some reason (I think), and Taeja had Code S tonight so was unable to participate.
On June 21 2012 23:32 Sandermatt wrote: Does anybody know the reasons why the korean TL players are not trying to qualify? I mean it's the league of their team, why wouldn't they want to compete in it.
HerO got knocked out in Round 2, Zenio in Round 1, Taeja was playing in Code S today.
On June 21 2012 23:32 Sandermatt wrote: Does anybody know the reasons why the korean TL players are not trying to qualify? I mean it's the league of their team, why wouldn't they want to compete in it.
TaeJa was playing Code S, HerO played...Zenio was scheduled to play but not sure if he actually played or forfeited.
On June 21 2012 23:36 Miragee wrote: Does anyone knows what is up with Mvp by not participating?
Judging by what he said in his interview, I doubt he'd do well even if he participated. MMA is in the same boat, but I think is more in an overall slump than just a TvZ slump.
As far as Symbol goes, I just think the guy isn't as consistent as we all thought. I mean, the GSTL results are one thing, but then he proceeded to do relatively poorly at MLG. Came back and dominated his GSL group, then proceeds to get 2-0'd by Kas. Now this.
Edit: In other words, I think Symbol's average level of play is probably closer to his MLG showing than what he displayed against MKP in the GSL. Anyone can play amazingly for a few games.
On June 21 2012 23:36 Miragee wrote: Does anyone knows what is up with Mvp by not participating?
Carpal tunnel. He focuses on GSL and GSL only.
I think he's recovering nicely from his treatment, as he hasn't mentioned it in a while. I think it's just that he doesn't feel too confident right now against Zerg. Or, perhaps he really is just mindgaming everyone. Who knows.
On June 21 2012 23:36 Miragee wrote: Does anyone knows what is up with Mvp by not participating?
Carpal tunnel. He focuses on GSL and GSL only.
I think he's recovering nicely from his treatment, as he hasn't mentioned it in a while. I think it's just that he doesn't feel too confident right now against Zerg. Or, perhaps he really is just mindgaming everyone. Who knows.
Na he said on his stream that he is still very sick and it hurts a lot. He also said he plays 10-20 games a day, then followed up with "maybe 10". He also said he hates long games.
On June 21 2012 23:32 Sandermatt wrote: Does anybody know the reasons why the korean TL players are not trying to qualify? I mean it's the league of their team, why wouldn't they want to compete in it.
TaeJa was playing Code S, HerO played...Zenio was scheduled to play but not sure if he actually played or forfeited.
Sorry, I only looked at the RO32 didn't expect them to drop out before that.
On June 21 2012 23:36 Miragee wrote: Does anyone knows what is up with Mvp by not participating?
Carpal tunnel. He focuses on GSL and GSL only.
I think he's recovering nicely from his treatment, as he hasn't mentioned it in a while. I think it's just that he doesn't feel too confident right now against Zerg. Or, perhaps he really is just mindgaming everyone. Who knows.
Na he said on his stream that he is still very sick and it hurts a lot. He also said he plays 10-20 games a day, then followed up with "maybe 10". He also said he hates long games.
I don't get it why doesn't he just take a break, he's still young and 3-4 months of proper rest/ treatment might actually have him back in his old condition. I know it took forever for them to figure out exactly why he couldn't put pressure on his wrists ( not standard carpal tunnel) but damnit he's going to wreck his body this way. If anyone could walk away from code s and requalify without much trouble it'd be a reinvigorated MVP. At this rate I worry he's going to permanaently damage his body and be screwed as a progamer and in general life.
On June 21 2012 23:36 Miragee wrote: Does anyone knows what is up with Mvp by not participating?
Carpal tunnel. He focuses on GSL and GSL only.
I think he's recovering nicely from his treatment, as he hasn't mentioned it in a while. I think it's just that he doesn't feel too confident right now against Zerg. Or, perhaps he really is just mindgaming everyone. Who knows.
Na he said on his stream that he is still very sick and it hurts a lot. He also said he plays 10-20 games a day, then followed up with "maybe 10". He also said he hates long games.
I don't get it why doesn't he just take a break, he's still young and 3-4 months of proper rest/ treatment might actually have him back in his old condition. I know it took forever for them to figure out exactly why he couldn't put pressure on his wrists ( not standard carpal tunnel) but damnit he's going to wreck his body this way. If anyone could walk away from code s and requalify without much trouble it'd be a reinvigorated MVP. At this rate I worry he's going to permanaently damage his body and be screwed as a progamer and in general life.
It's unfortunate that the way GSL is structured means there are no off-season breaks. Obviously the best thing for him would be a solid few months of rehabilitation Flash-style but I don't know if its feasible.
On June 21 2012 23:36 Miragee wrote: Does anyone knows what is up with Mvp by not participating?
Carpal tunnel. He focuses on GSL and GSL only.
I think he's recovering nicely from his treatment, as he hasn't mentioned it in a while. I think it's just that he doesn't feel too confident right now against Zerg. Or, perhaps he really is just mindgaming everyone. Who knows.
Na he said on his stream that he is still very sick and it hurts a lot. He also said he plays 10-20 games a day, then followed up with "maybe 10". He also said he hates long games.
I don't get it why doesn't he just take a break, he's still young and 3-4 months of proper rest/ treatment might actually have him back in his old condition. I know it took forever for them to figure out exactly why he couldn't put pressure on his wrists ( not standard carpal tunnel) but damnit he's going to wreck his body this way. If anyone could walk away from code s and requalify without much trouble it'd be a reinvigorated MVP. At this rate I worry he's going to permanaently damage his body and be screwed as a progamer and in general life.
It's unfortunate that the way GSL is structured means there are no off-season breaks. Obviously the best thing for him would be a solid few months of rehabilitation Flash-style but I don't know if its feasible.
It's an awkward position, if he takes a couple of seasons off does he ever manage to recapture what he's still capable of doing given how much people are still improving across the board? Also an awkward time with the Kespa switch on the horizon since who knows how much the KR SC2 scenes landscape will shift in the coming future.
If he was to take time off I'd hope GOM would offer him a seeded spot when he gets back, sort of like you can get a protected ranking in Tennis if you're out with an injury for a while. Would at least mean getting proper rehab wouldn't set him right back to the very bottom of the tournament.
I so wish for TL to somehow get negotiations done with Kespa . At this point in time they have already aknowledged that a foreign scene exists and it would be epic if their players could participate in the tournament . After all TL was created with the aim of following the korean BW e-sports scene or so i know . TL helped Kespa expose themselves to the world so the least they could do is take part in TSL .
On June 22 2012 01:48 raga4ka wrote: I so wish for TL to somehow get negotiations done with Kespa . At this point in time they have already aknowledged that a foreign scene exists and it would be epic if their players could participate in the tournament . After all TL was created with the aim of following the korean BW e-sports scene or so i know . TL helped Kespa expose themselves to the world so the least they could do is take part in TSL .
BW pros will not enter a SC2 tournament where they risk getting beaten by foreigners for probably half a year.
On June 22 2012 01:48 raga4ka wrote: I so wish for TL to somehow get negotiations done with Kespa . At this point in time they have already aknowledged that a foreign scene exists and it would be epic if their players could participate in the tournament . After all TL was created with the aim of following the korean BW e-sports scene or so i know . TL helped Kespa expose themselves to the world so the least they could do is take part in TSL .
BW pros will not enter a SC2 tournament where they risk getting beaten by foreigners for probably half a year.
I don't think they are that pride consumed . They have lost in the past to foreigners no big deal . I think they will participate in the next MLG's bracket even if they are not invincible against foreigners by that time .
Rooting for Squirtle (for going from noname to awesome in such a short time), Sting (for being the only Terran left), and Coca (for being Slayers), but I think TSL has a good chance of landing Hyun or Revival in the top
I think Revival's decision to not take a third was bad considering his opponent's speed is nonexistent. However, it would have been a risk without confirming that DRG had no gas.
On June 22 2012 03:21 Brow23 wrote: 1 Terran in Top8...
And yet Select was in the finals against Mana yesterday Relax lol.
Don't go that way. In the last 5 qualifiers, there was one Terran in the finals (1/10). That's 10% against an expected 33,33%, but of course the sample is small.
Also, note that yesterday SeleCT brought his Encyclopedia of Cheese.
On June 22 2012 03:21 Brow23 wrote: 1 Terran in Top8...
And yet Select was in the finals against Mana yesterday Relax lol.
Don't go that way. In the last 5 qualifiers, there was one Terran in the finals (1/10). That's 10% against an expected 33,33%, but of course the sample is small.
Also, note that yesterday SeleCT brought his Encyclopedia of Cheese.
On June 22 2012 03:21 Brow23 wrote: 1 Terran in Top8...
And yet Select was in the finals against Mana yesterday Relax lol.
Don't go that way. In the last 5 qualifiers, there was one Terran in the finals (1/10). That's 10% against an expected 33,33%, but of course the sample is small.
Also, note that yesterday SeleCT brought his Encyclopedia of Cheese.
this morning, both Terrans advanced in GSL, beating out the Z and the P. I do believe that the GSL race ratio is quite even
People can bring up any stats they want to support these >.>
I agree... I'm not against cheese and I didn't said in my post that there's something wrong with it. I just said that SeleCT was using that kind of strategies. Moreover, I understand completely why he was using such tacticts.
I'm starting to feel that Infested terrans are perhaps a bit too strong. Not saying anything big, it's just they are so really really great for a lot of stuff :O
On June 22 2012 04:02 Noocta wrote: I'm starting to feel that Infested terrans are perhaps a bit too strong. Not saying anything big, it's just they are so really really great for a lot of stuff :O
But they're fun, and only effective in large numbers. (Unless you stop listening to Drazerk, don't make any raven and let infestors swim below your tanks.) Nerf fungal instead, for a better game!
So Sting has a lot of gas, why not build a Raven for his big hellion push to use PDD for the Queens and detect creep? Might as well use it while it's there.
Anyone knows why they are using strong team color mod ? I like it's nice and banelings look awesome, but I'm just wondering why ? Again, not complaining, I LOVE it.
On June 22 2012 04:35 SpiZe wrote: Anyone knows why they are using strong team color mod ? I like it's nice and banelings look awesome, but I'm just wondering why ? Again, not complaining, I LOVE it.
because they think it's cool and it serves better the purpose of e-sport.
On June 22 2012 04:35 SpiZe wrote: Anyone knows why they are using strong team color mod ? I like it's nice and banelings look awesome, but I'm just wondering why ? Again, not complaining, I LOVE it.
because they think it's cool and it serves better the purpose of e-sport.
It's also way easier for people watching in lower quality to tell whats happening in a ZvZ.
why isnt hyun doing all the "usual zerg op stuff" like ryung would say. he could play the exact same but off 3bases early game he saw it was 1rax fe hellions i dont get it
On June 22 2012 04:47 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote: why isnt hyun doing all the "usual zerg op stuff" like ryung would say. he could play the exact same but off 3bases early game he saw it was 1rax fe hellions i dont get it
Hmmm antiga is still a really hard map to play on as zerg, queen buff is nice and all but still insanely hard to get a 4'th base and that is what you need as zerg. I can understand it, you can be greedy off of 3 bases which is nice but you also want to get a 4'th which again is really hard on antiga so he tried to do a bust otherwise he would be stuck on 3 base vs 3 base and that makes it hard to get that insanely strong army terrans hate oh so much.
On June 22 2012 04:47 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote: why isnt hyun doing all the "usual zerg op stuff" like ryung would say. he could play the exact same but off 3bases early game he saw it was 1rax fe hellions i dont get it
Hmmm antiga is still a really hard map to play on as zerg, queen buff is nice and all but still insanely hard to get a 4'th base and that is what you need as zerg. I can understand it, you can be greedy off of 3 bases which is nice but you also want to get a 4'th which again is really hard on antiga so he tried to do a bust otherwise he would be stuck on 3 base vs 3 base and that makes it hard to get that insanely strong army terrans hate oh so much.
ok but whatever u do is better off 3bases ?like he delayed it a ton. its fine if he wants to bust, if he wants to get ultra fast bls w/e. but why no 5minute 3rd ? 3bases bust become insanely scarier with it imo
come on SangHo!! you once advanced to the ro16 of code S when no other protoss did, basically making you the best protoss in the world. show squirtle what's up!!
Is there a particular reason this one had Bo3's all the way through as opposed to a few rounds of Bo1's like the other qualifiers? I understand Bo3 is a smarter format, but it just makes it seem like this one was given a bit more diligence.
On June 22 2012 05:08 CosmicSpiral wrote: How did Killer get to the Ro8? He's getting outplayed in every possible manner.
it's not Killer's fault. It's squirtle that is in another lvl right now...
On June 22 2012 05:09 Sphen5117 wrote: Is there a particular reason this one had Bo3's all the way through as opposed to a few rounds of Bo1's like the other qualifiers? I understand Bo3 is a smarter format, but it just makes it seem like this one was given a bit more diligence.
Korean qualis are all BO3. NA/EU Are BO1 until RO32
On June 22 2012 04:59 SupLilSon wrote: Are any Terrans still in this atm?
NSH.Sting
edit: Ninja'd, bah!
Hey Promethelax, who's going to win this?
TheStC
But seriously? I'll take either Squirtle or Coca, you can have whoever you want. What are we betting?
I was hoping you were stupid enough not to take Squirtle! For kicks and giggles I'll bet MKP will never qualify. Or Sting will make it to the finals of this qualifier. You decide the terms.
Damn, Killer messed that up in every single way possible, first his 4 Gate failed because he microed poorly, then his Immortal drops failed, then he let Squirtle's Immortal drop do too much damage.
On June 22 2012 05:04 Logros wrote: Killer is the king of derping. I remember him dying to missed forcefields all the time the first few GSLs.
Yeah he botched one pretty good against MKP (then "Foxer" to us) and people were pissed at MKP advancing because they didn't realize he was good yet until his series against Kyrix, and he used the handle "Boxer".
On June 22 2012 04:59 SupLilSon wrote: Are any Terrans still in this atm?
NSH.Sting
edit: Ninja'd, bah!
Hey Promethelax, who's going to win this?
TheStC
But seriously? I'll take either Squirtle or Coca, you can have whoever you want. What are we betting?
I was hoping you were stupid enough not to take Squirtle! For kicks and giggles I'll bet MKP will never qualify. Or Sting will make it to the finals of this qualifier. You decide the terms.
I'll take MKP to qualify but you better give me some good odds with his TvZ impotence. I gotta head out and help a friend move but PM the terms and I'm in.
Also I'll bet that Coca beats Sting. 1 month sigs, same as before. If you win I'll go to two months, if you win you'll have a month.
On June 22 2012 04:59 SupLilSon wrote: Are any Terrans still in this atm?
NSH.Sting
edit: Ninja'd, bah!
Hey Promethelax, who's going to win this?
TheStC
But seriously? I'll take either Squirtle or Coca, you can have whoever you want. What are we betting?
I was hoping you were stupid enough not to take Squirtle! For kicks and giggles I'll bet MKP will never qualify. Or Sting will make it to the finals of this qualifier. You decide the terms.
I'll take MKP to qualify but you better give me some good odds with his TvZ impotence. I gotta head out and help a friend move but PM the terms and I'm in.
Also I'll bet that Coca beats Sting. 1 month sigs, same as before. If you win I'll go to two months, if you win you'll have a month.
Yeah, I'll get back to you because I am at work. Any other takers?
On June 22 2012 04:59 SupLilSon wrote: Are any Terrans still in this atm?
NSH.Sting
edit: Ninja'd, bah!
Hey Promethelax, who's going to win this?
TheStC
But seriously? I'll take either Squirtle or Coca, you can have whoever you want. What are we betting?
I was hoping you were stupid enough not to take Squirtle! For kicks and giggles I'll bet MKP will never qualify. Or Sting will make it to the finals of this qualifier. You decide the terms.
I'll take MKP to qualify but you better give me some good odds with his TvZ impotence. I gotta head out and help a friend move but PM the terms and I'm in.
Also I'll bet that Coca beats Sting. 1 month sigs, same as before. If you win I'll go to two months, if you win you'll have a month.
Yeah, I'll get back to you because I am at work. Any other takers?
IMfirst is 1/0 vs ByuL in bw, and byul is the new zerg bonjwa. therefore IMfirst wins
Nice crazy series, I like games that stray from the typical boring path we keep seeing now a days. Good luck to Sting, he'll need it, but he also has the entire might of NSH Terrans behind him, perhaps he he maybe can pull out some magic.
On June 22 2012 05:52 JimmiC wrote: This "First" is playing incredible, can't believe the names he is destroying and I never heard of the guy.
He's one of the lesser elephants, he's qualified for Code A this season. I have pretty high expectations of him. This is definitely his breakout performance thusfar! Now...lets see if he can beat squirtle. I dont think so tbh.
On June 22 2012 05:52 JimmiC wrote: This "First" is playing incredible, can't believe the names he is destroying and I never heard of the guy.
He's one of the lesser elephants, he's qualified for Code A this season. I have pretty high expectations of him. This is definitely his breakout performance thusfar! Now...lets see if he can beat squirtle. I dont think so tbh.
It's a pretty tall order but with the way the brackets have turned out honestly it seems like nothing would surprise me at this point
On June 22 2012 06:06 Toadvine wrote: On a related note, I guess the thing that separates Code S Zergs from the rest is the ability to not a-move their Infestors into the enemy army.
Nah even some code S zergs do it with 1 control group syndrome xD
On June 22 2012 06:06 Toadvine wrote: On a related note, I guess the thing that separates Code S Zergs from the rest is the ability to not a-move their Infestors into the enemy army.
Nah even some code S zergs do it with 1 control group syndrome xD
I'm starting to think this is one of the reasons Stephano does so well - every single engagement, you see him running away with his Infestors once he's dropped the fungals/ITs he needs.
On June 22 2012 06:06 Toadvine wrote: On a related note, I guess the thing that separates Code S Zergs from the rest is the ability to not a-move their Infestors into the enemy army.
Nah even some code S zergs do it with 1 control group syndrome xD
I'm starting to think this is one of the reasons Stephano does so well - every single engagement, you see him running away with his Infestors once he's dropped the fungals/ITs he needs.
Oh yes keeping infestors alive is huge. Having them on a separate hotkey is a must imo. To many zergs (even top pros) keep them in 1 control group with ling/bane and it just blows my mind to why they do that xD
On June 22 2012 06:16 ShakkaFL wrote: uhuh, it is a big deal, the tournament coca did that had a spot to code A as a reward for the winner
Except there was no code a spot in place for that season and it was the first round of a tournament that was itself basically a qualifier to the big finals tournament (where a Code A spot would have potentially been on the line had it happened again).
Not condoning it, just clarifying it since because people still spout misinformation about it.
Damn, if Sting had waited 10 more seconds before launching that attack, he'd have had shield upgrade for marines and he'd have slaughtered all of them and maybe have gotten the hatch.
On June 22 2012 06:16 ShakkaFL wrote: uhuh, it is a big deal, the tournament coca did that had a spot to code A as a reward for the winner
no T_T it did not
totally undeserved and unfair punishment considering u could name a number of things way worse some high profiles foreign pros did and still do. u can just look up on tl for it
hahaahha this cast is so awesome, would've never expected apollo to be the quirky funny guy and incontrol trying to calm him down and focus on the game more rofl.
While this is hardly appropriate casting for a grand final of a tournament, it's both entertaining and endearing. Coca rolled that one so easily too, should be an entertaining third game.
Dunno If I have totally missed this but is TSL 4 also going to use the ''brighter team colour'' mod as they are using in the qualifiers? I don't know if i prefer it but i don't mind it . Just curious ^^.
lol incontrol keeps calling Coca "Coco", which is the name of a close friend of mine. kinda confusing to me. i doubt she can play zerg like that though.
I'd like to thank very, very, very, very, very kindly for people responsible for the technical side of streaming, for making the stream quality simply amazing!!!! This is how GSL HQ stream should look like
On June 22 2012 06:32 Schelim wrote: lol incontrol keeps calling Coca "Coco", which is the name of a close friend of mine. kinda confusing to me. i doubt she can play zerg like that though.
On June 22 2012 06:40 Asha` wrote: Coca is so sloppy, no wonder he can't make it back into Code A.
Not that I'm complaining
Terran priiiiiiiiiide
Eh he is sloppy this series but maybe its just one of those days after playing a lot of games. Also realize that even the code A qualifiers is still insanely hard to get into.
god Coca cant play ZvT for his life.... NO upgrades.... no 4th base.. zero infestor control.... I find it hard to believe that he is so behind in ZvT when he has great practice partners..
I don't get it. Why do zergs suddenly go for so much agression vs terran? It seems like all the busts and rushes get them killed about half of the time.
On June 22 2012 06:43 zeratul_jf wrote: god Coca cant play ZvT for his life.... NO upgrades.... no 4th base.. zero infestor control.... I find it hard to believe that he is so behind in ZvT when he has great practice partners..
Weirder still is that he beat MKP earlier in this tournament o__O
On June 22 2012 06:43 zeratul_jf wrote: god Coca cant play ZvT for his life.... NO upgrades.... no 4th base.. zero infestor control.... I find it hard to believe that he is so behind in ZvT when he has great practice partners..
Weirder still is that he beat MKP earlier in this tournament o__O
On June 22 2012 06:43 zeratul_jf wrote: god Coca cant play ZvT for his life.... NO upgrades.... no 4th base.. zero infestor control.... I find it hard to believe that he is so behind in ZvT when he has great practice partners..
Weirder still is that he beat MKP earlier in this tournament o__O
On June 22 2012 06:43 zeratul_jf wrote: god Coca cant play ZvT for his life.... NO upgrades.... no 4th base.. zero infestor control.... I find it hard to believe that he is so behind in ZvT when he has great practice partners..
Weirder still is that he beat MKP earlier in this tournament o__O
Sting goes for rax - expand - hellion - cloak banshee - double eng bay and a third starts at about 08:00. Gets two cloak banshees unnoticed into Coca's third, kills a queen, 13 drones, then 2 queens more come to help and kill one banshee, but both queen dies. End of phase 1.
Coca proceeds to go with a semi-allinish ling-bling-roach bust of 51 drones. Sting has siege tanks, bunkers, medivacs to do the lift micro. Sting holds, loses a ton of SCVs thou (38?). He has far superior tech, with 3/3 on the way, siege tanks and medivacs. End of phase 2.
Sting moves out, Coca is only getting 2/1 upgrades for his ling/bling army and some festors. Tries to kill Sting's army in the middle and fails, loses clumped-up infestors to a single tank volley. 3/3 hits, tanks siege between the nat and the third, medivacs provide high-ground vision and Coca dies.
On June 22 2012 06:54 zacd wrote: How do they get the units to "glow" based on player color? Is it a graphics setting? I swear I've never seen it before.
On June 22 2012 06:40 EscPlan9 wrote: Build a raven. One single raven. DO IT DO IT
I agree, so many scans wasted on spotting tumors, I think it's a thousand minerals plus these games.
I disagree, need to scan anyways to see if he's not falling into a trap. Too many creep tumors - T needs to leave 'em there and kill zerg bases instead. At least that is what Sting did does games and it seems to be working. Any failed all-in from the Z is helpful too
On June 22 2012 06:40 EscPlan9 wrote: Build a raven. One single raven. DO IT DO IT
I agree, so many scans wasted on spotting tumors, I think it's a thousand minerals plus these games.
I disagree, need to scan anyways to see if he's not falling into a trap. Too many creep tumors - T needs to leave 'em there and kill zerg bases instead. At least that is what Sting did does games and it seems to be working. Any failed all-in from the Z is helpful too
Wat?
They scan squarely on their marines (getting optimum tumor kill coverage) to avoid traps?
They scan ahead and then move marines in. That's way better than moving in with raven, getting it fungaled and killed over and over and over again. Also the starport should be pumping out medivacs or vikings.
I love that DT expand that the koreans are doing at the moment. It's an auto-win against builds robo-less builds like that, and matches up well against a lot of robo builds too.
On June 22 2012 07:06 jeeneeus wrote: Oh apparently IMFirst is Anyppi from bw.
Yes. A while ago there was a picture from the IM house with a guy in the background practicing, with a pixelated face. Later it was revealed that it was Anyppi.
On June 22 2012 06:40 EscPlan9 wrote: Build a raven. One single raven. DO IT DO IT
I agree, so many scans wasted on spotting tumors, I think it's a thousand minerals plus these games.
I disagree, need to scan anyways to see if he's not falling into a trap. Too many creep tumors - T needs to leave 'em there and kill zerg bases instead. At least that is what Sting did does games and it seems to be working. Any failed all-in from the Z is helpful too
Wat?
They scan squarely on their marines (getting optimum tumor kill coverage) to avoid traps?
No, you have your army outside the vision of the creep, you scan ahead then you stim some army ahead and kill tumors. If you see a zerg army there, you don't go in. With a Raven 2 things can happen.
1 You send your raven ahead to scout, in which case he can be easily sniped in some retarded and often embarrassing way. 2 You send your Raven with your army, in which case now its your entire army that can be caught out of position, unsieged and sniped in some retarded and probably even more embarrassing way.
I used to think like you, but then I realized that scans are just way better.
Back on topic damn, DT's two times in a row? I hope First hasn't taken any hints from Inca...
On June 22 2012 06:40 EscPlan9 wrote: Build a raven. One single raven. DO IT DO IT
I agree, so many scans wasted on spotting tumors, I think it's a thousand minerals plus these games.
I disagree, need to scan anyways to see if he's not falling into a trap. Too many creep tumors - T needs to leave 'em there and kill zerg bases instead. At least that is what Sting did does games and it seems to be working. Any failed all-in from the Z is helpful too
Wat?
They scan squarely on their marines (getting optimum tumor kill coverage) to avoid traps?
No, you have your army outside the vision of the creep, you scan ahead then you stim some army ahead and kill tumors. If you see a zerg army there, you don't go in. With a Raven 2 things can happen.
1 You send your raven ahead to scout, in which case he can be easily sniped in some retarded and often embarrassing way. 2 You send your Raven with your army, in which case now its your entire army that can be caught out of position, unsieged and sniped in some retarded and probably even more embarrassing way.
I used to think like you, but then I realized that scans are just way better.
Back on topic damn, DT's two times in a row? I hope First hasn't taken any hints from Inca...
During initial push to destroy creep, yes you are right. What the guy who originally posted was referring to (I'm assuming) is the totally wasted scans on creep in your own expansions, areas that you have control over, etc. Very, very many wasted scans in those situations.
I don't understand the Templar Archives from Squirtle. You can make Archons already from DTs, and its less gas intensive then HT by a bit. Does he plan to Storm or is this maybe a stylistic mistake?
Edit: Never mid, I didn't catch the DT shrine cancel...
So. First went for DT's, Squirtle went for robo. First made a robo, then canceled when he noticed squirtle scouted him. He then expands. Squirtle expands, and then goes DT's himself. Scouts a robo from First, then cancels. Then a whole bunch of shit happens and now First is ahead on colossus count.
On June 22 2012 07:14 Dosey wrote: During initial push to destroy creep, yes you are right. What the guy who originally posted was referring to (I'm assuming) is the totally wasted scans on creep in your own expansions, areas that you have control over, etc. Very, very many wasted scans in those situations.
Sting won because he applied constant pressure with his marine/medivac/tank army. He needed to remake the medivacs constantly, otherwise his marines would die to fungals in a blink of an eye. He chose not to get his finger off the trigger and managed to pull the win, it was super close thou.
If he chose to pause, switch up buildings, build raven, switch back again and resume - ... well, I think he would have lost.
On June 22 2012 06:40 EscPlan9 wrote: Build a raven. One single raven. DO IT DO IT
I agree, so many scans wasted on spotting tumors, I think it's a thousand minerals plus these games.
I disagree, need to scan anyways to see if he's not falling into a trap. Too many creep tumors - T needs to leave 'em there and kill zerg bases instead. At least that is what Sting did does games and it seems to be working. Any failed all-in from the Z is helpful too
Wat?
They scan squarely on their marines (getting optimum tumor kill coverage) to avoid traps?
No, you have your army outside the vision of the creep, you scan ahead then you stim some army ahead and kill tumors. If you see a zerg army there, you don't go in. With a Raven 2 things can happen.
1 You send your raven ahead to scout, in which case he can be easily sniped in some retarded and often embarrassing way. 2 You send your Raven with your army, in which case now its your entire army that can be caught out of position, unsieged and sniped in some retarded and probably evenmore embarrassing way.
I used to think like you, but then I realized that scans are just way better.
Back on topic damn, DT's two times in a row? I hope First hasn't taken any hints from Inca...
What about stimming a marine ahead to scout?
And sorry for the stupid question, but what have the scores been? I can't check ony phone
Damn, I can't believe Squirtle botched that and lost a PvP series, I don't want to detract from First, he is clearly good and resourceful, but Squirtle was in a pretty commanding lead.
Back on topic, I love Sting for doing what needs to be done to get a Terran representative trough the qualifiers and into the TSL4, bravely going where no Terran has gone before!
On June 22 2012 07:35 Nosferatos wrote: Hmm proxy marauder seems almost too strong, might need to put an building restriction on Marauder, like an eng.bay.
On June 22 2012 07:35 Nosferatos wrote: Hmm proxy marauder seems almost too strong, might need to put an building restriction on Marauder, like an eng.bay.
First was planning to 15 nex, and ended up having to go 17gate. That's like complaining that proxy 2 gate is imba because it's auto-win against cc first.
On June 22 2012 07:35 Nosferatos wrote: Hmm proxy marauder seems almost too strong, might need to put an building restriction on Marauder, like an eng.bay.
Let's not nerf every early strat shall we?
I think the biggest problem there was that First didn't check at all for the proxy, he saw the scouting scv but didn't search around the base, so weird...
On June 22 2012 07:35 Nosferatos wrote: Hmm proxy marauder seems almost too strong, might need to put an building restriction on Marauder, like an eng.bay.
On June 22 2012 07:35 Nosferatos wrote: Hmm proxy marauder seems almost too strong, might need to put an building restriction on Marauder, like an eng.bay.
Let's not nerf every early strat shall we?
I think the biggest problem there was that First didn't check at all for the proxy, he saw the scouting scv but didn't search around the base, so weird...
Just go see Mana vs Select games from yesterday if you want to know how to defend proxy marauder with a zealot and a couple of probes. First botched this game, that's it.
He is ? He must be like 30+ years old now. I'm surprised such an old progamer still is in the circuit, this is awesome. I downloaded replays of this guy in like what, 2005 ? Perhaps even earlier.
He is ? Is he like 30+ year olds ? I'm surprised such an old progamer still is in the circuit, this is awesome. I downloaded replays of this guy in like what, 2005 ? Perhaps even earlier.
Wuh? First is like 20yo man, he's younger then i am x_x
He is ? He must be like 30+ years old now. I'm surprised such an old progamer still is in the circuit, this is awesome. I downloaded replays of this guy in like what, 2005 ? Perhaps even earlier.
Salmosa was in this tournament too, who as near as I can tell, is the same guy who had televised ITG games in 2000.
I think/hope Jjakji was watching over Sting's shoulders to advise him and teach him the way of the mind games. He sure got into First's in these two games.
He is ? He must be like 30+ years old now. I'm surprised such an old progamer still is in the circuit, this is awesome. I downloaded replays of this guy in like what, 2005 ? Perhaps even earlier.
Salmosa was in this tournament too, who as near as I can tell, is the same guy who had televised ITG games in 2000.
yea Salmosa is pretty old for a progamer. What team was he on? It doesnt say on TLPD
On June 22 2012 07:47 zeratul_jf wrote: omg i almost fell out of my chair when they said "well lets try" and started to go crazy oh god.. such good casting
On June 22 2012 07:46 Destructicon wrote: I think/hope Jjakji was watching over Sting's shoulders to advise him and teach him the way of the mind games. He sure got into First's in these two games.
I hope so, getting 2-0'd by Killer's PvT is an upset to say the least lol.
He is ? He must be like 30+ years old now. I'm surprised such an old progamer still is in the circuit, this is awesome. I downloaded replays of this guy in like what, 2005 ? Perhaps even earlier.
Salmosa was in this tournament too, who as near as I can tell, is the same guy who had televised ITG games in 2000.
Well I have messages that telling me anyppi is 20 years old :x So he's an anyppi impostor, because there definitely was an anyppi 7-8 years ago in bw. Or he was 12 years old. He was toss iirc.
Oh this was too, too good, I need to wake up in 7 hours but can't make myself break away from the computer because the casting is so fucking fantastic.
1st game lost to proxy marauder. 2nd game... Sting goes marauder/hellion attack. First loses his nexus and counters with a warp prism-double immortal drop. Sting expands and sends a medivac into First's main with 4 hellions.
First kills tech lab reserching stim, loses 19 probes in his main at the same time. 42+ scvs and double orbital vs something like 20 probes and no tech for First. Sting steamrolls him with MMM a couple minutes later.
First expanded and Sting is doing 2-1-1 with stim, siege tanks with siege modes and medivacs. Pulls 3 SCVs, kills First's natural, pushes into the main, depowers 2 gateways and wins.
Once again an IM protoss makes it to the finals onto to lose, perhps tomorrow it will be YongHwas's turn. Still as sad as those final games were all credit to First for making it to the finals and I hope he gains enough points in further tsl qualifiers to make it.
Congratulations to Sting for being the first ever Terran to qualify in TSL4, he may have been cheesy a couple of times but damn he did what needed to be done!
The fun thing about Korean Online Tournaments ( more so than European/NA ) the lesser known guys with bigger nerve issues on stage get their time to shine even against the so called big names. I knew First existed but hadn't seen a game of him.
Sting i heard and saw quite a bit of before and know how well he can perform online ( and probably in training games ) so him beasting up online isn't THAT big of a suprise.
First the all terran win against startale in GSTL last week and now winning the qualifier, NSHoSeo's terran players are really showing strength lately despite claims of imbalance. well played sting!
On June 22 2012 10:09 teamhozac wrote: 2 terrans yay! Maybe we can stay at 20% of the pool, lol... What a difference 2 years and 97 nerfs/buffs make to a game
No you'd rather go back to the GomTvT day's i know, just be happy for Sting and give terrans some time to adjust.
On June 22 2012 10:09 teamhozac wrote: 2 terrans yay! Maybe we can stay at 20% of the pool, lol... What a difference 2 years and 97 nerfs/buffs make to a game
No you'd rather go back to the GomTvT day's i know, just be happy for Sting and give terrans some time to adjust.
It hasn't be GomTvT for a really really long time.
the kt-rolster and lg-im merger seems unevitable in my eyes.
This could be from "Dude, wheres my car": - Whats your name? - IM.FIRST. - No, you are second. But i asked: whats your name? - IM.FIRST. - Nono, you are second! But what i wanted to know is how you are referred to by acquaintances? - IM.FIRST. - For the very last time, you are not first, you are second. So would you please tell me your name now? - IM.FIRST. - UR.SECOND! (and so on...)
On June 22 2012 10:09 teamhozac wrote: 2 terrans yay! Maybe we can stay at 20% of the pool, lol... What a difference 2 years and 97 nerfs/buffs make to a game
On June 22 2012 10:09 teamhozac wrote: 2 terrans yay! Maybe we can stay at 20% of the pool, lol... What a difference 2 years and 97 nerfs/buffs make to a game
Sting confirms to be very good online after he won the first EWM, still a bit sad he qualifies as he's nowhere near my Korean top11 and I didn't enjoy much the finals
On June 22 2012 18:38 LeLfe wrote: Sting confirms to be very good online after he won the first EWM, still a bit sad he qualifies as he's nowhere near my Korean top11 and I didn't enjoy much the finals
why are u sad its good to have other players than usual suspects, and he deserved it all
On June 22 2012 18:38 LeLfe wrote: Sting confirms to be very good online after he won the first EWM, still a bit sad he qualifies as he's nowhere near my Korean top11 and I didn't enjoy much the finals
why are u sad its good to have other players than usual suspects, and he deserved it all
and just look at thorzain
agreed. TSL3 was ThorZain's breakout. and he turned out to become one of the best foreigners in the world. Sting is amazing. He was in my korean clan aLive :D He's super friendly as well. I hope he does well in the main bracket!! gogo fighting!
On June 22 2012 15:39 Heimatloser wrote: the kt-rolster and lg-im merger seems unevitable in my eyes.
This could be from "Dude, wheres my car": - Whats your name? - IM.FIRST. - No, you are second. But i asked: whats your name? - IM.FIRST. - Nono, you are second! But what i wanted to know is how you are referred to by acquaintances? - IM.FIRST. - For the very last time, you are not first, you are second. So would you please tell me your name now? - IM.FIRST. - UR.SECOND! (and so on...)
TL badly needs a filter option to get rid of the <insert race here> imba! spam. These "best of 1" qualifiers are letting a lot of unknown talent float to the top, part of me will miss seeing the usual big names, but another part of me is super hyped about seeing all this fresh talent. The Korean talent pool is deeeeeeeeeep!
On June 23 2012 02:24 EAGER-beaver wrote: TL badly needs a filter option to get rid of the <insert race here> imba! spam. These "best of 1" qualifiers are letting a lot of unknown talent float to the top, part of me will miss seeing the usual big names, but another part of me is super hyped about seeing all this fresh talent. The Korean talent pool is deeeeeeeeeep!
On June 23 2012 02:24 EAGER-beaver wrote: TL badly needs a filter option to get rid of the <insert race here> imba! spam. These "best of 1" qualifiers are letting a lot of unknown talent float to the top, part of me will miss seeing the usual big names, but another part of me is super hyped about seeing all this fresh talent. The Korean talent pool is deeeeeeeeeep!
There is no BO1 in the Korean qualifiers.
but shhh, we don't tell him that. He's having a dear old time :D
just waiting on final replays now wanna see the finale to stings incredible run^^
On June 22 2012 15:39 Heimatloser wrote: the kt-rolster and lg-im merger seems unevitable in my eyes.
This could be from "Dude, wheres my car": - Whats your name? - IM.FIRST. - No, you are second. But i asked: whats your name? - IM.FIRST. - Nono, you are second! But what i wanted to know is how you are referred to by acquaintances? - IM.FIRST. - For the very last time, you are not first, you are second. So would you please tell me your name now? - IM.FIRST. - UR.SECOND! (and so on...)
On June 22 2012 05:09 Sphen5117 wrote: Is there a particular reason this one had Bo3's all the way through as opposed to a few rounds of Bo1's like the other qualifiers? I understand Bo3 is a smarter format, but it just makes it seem like this one was given a bit more diligence.
Korean qualis are all BO3. NA/EU Are BO1 until RO32
EPT
TeamLiquid StarLeague 4/Qualifiers/KR 2
Probably too mad about getting 6/7 pooled by byul last time. 
![[image loading]](http://lookatmyhappyrainbow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/soap-box.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://theenigmaticgenerationofwallpapers.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/sting-joker-wallpaper-22.jpg?w=840)
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