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On June 13 2012 20:37 polyphonyEX wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:35 Nekovivie wrote:
Get over it guys, cheese is part of the game. Squirtle is at fault for derping and losing to it twice. Luck plays a huge factor in cheese scenarios like this. It doesn't matter who is playing or how well they are, if they get bad luck in scouting/micro, they auto lose. It's just not a good way to determine skill.
How hard is it to scout?
He literally had the same information he had in the 2nd game and he held it off then. A game he probably would have had a huge lead if he didn't derp around by losing stalkers in the middle of the map.
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On June 13 2012 20:37 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:36 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Keen doesnt deserve to advance first. It's not about Terran, it is not about Protoss. It is about Keen. He does not deserve it, period. Hehehe. when MVP does the same thing against Naniwa and won.Does MVP not deserve it? LOL DEAL WITH IT
MVP has shown consistency. And amazing play. Which Keen never ever did. He is just bad/lucky.
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On June 13 2012 20:36 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:34 Tsubbi wrote:
as a zerg who faced a billion bunker rushes i wonder how the protoss should react to itperfectly? is there a recent vod or game where a p held that proxy 2 rax? sadly the only vods you will find is of terran winning with it
MC defended an 11/11 rax on I believe Atlantis Spaceship in the Up n Down matches, with ease.
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On June 13 2012 20:31 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:29 thepeonwhocould wrote:
Listen guys. IM.MvP and Keen are in the top 20 Terran players in the world. They are cheesing because the matchup is impossible late game. They want to win at any cost, and they feel this is the best way to win. Don't get angry at Keen/MvP, get angry at Blizzard for creating this situation. Blizzard has forced their hand. and squirtles top 5 toss perhaps they know he's a better player and THAT's why they cheese. But that can't be possible right? Has to be imbalance.
And why wouldn't keen use the strategy he thinks is most likely to result in a win in his favor?
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On June 13 2012 20:36 SolidMustard wrote:
This is one of the lamest LR threads ever. Seriously, stop the fucking whine
You mean every other LR thread..
On June 13 2012 20:39 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:37 FakeDeath wrote:On June 13 2012 20:36 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Keen doesnt deserve to advance first. It's not about Terran, it is not about Protoss. It is about Keen. He does not deserve it, period. Hehehe. when MVP does the same thing against Naniwa and won.Does MVP not deserve it? LOL DEAL WITH IT MVP has shown consistency. And amazing play. Which Keen never ever did. He is just bad/lucky.
AAhh yes if your a GSL champion its ok to cheese but if your just a semi regular Code S player cheesing is a big nono, playing to win and making a livelihood out of your success? Fuck that random internet guy angry..
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Squirtle gonna be so on tilt if the winner of t-zain/keen does it again and wins first game haha
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On June 13 2012 20:34 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:31 FataLe wrote:On June 13 2012 20:29 thepeonwhocould wrote:
Listen guys. IM.MvP and Keen are in the top 20 Terran players in the world. They are cheesing because the matchup is impossible late game. They want to win at any cost, and they feel this is the best way to win. Don't get angry at Keen/MvP, get angry at Blizzard for creating this situation. Blizzard has forced their hand. and squirtles top 5 toss perhaps they know he's a better player and THAT's why they cheese. But that can't be possible right? Has to be imbalance. Yes, a 4 time GSL champion cheesing because he thinks Squirtle is a better player clearly makes more sense than lategame imbalance.
You're missing my point. Most people tend to look straight at imbalance where there could be other factors involved here.
Take MVP for instance. Pre-Final he expressed confidence in his PvT late-game but we often saw him use mid game timings maybe becuase of imbalance (kinda contradicts himself) or maybe because he's undergone surgery and the longer the game goes the worser the state his wrists become.
It's entirely possible that he thinks Squirtle is better than him in PvT. I mean he did 3-0 a Terran in semis right?
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As a terran who recently swapped to protoss, its much easier to win a TvP with a 2 rax than it is a macro game, the terran has to be leagues ahead of the protoss to get it done, which Keen isnt on Squirtle. Good job for him recognising this and just abusing 2 rax, i mean why fight the clock when u can win before the clock starts?
Game 1 was a really clear example of this, Keen arguably played a bit better, but Squirtle is competant enough to defend and hold on until the clocks in his favour, and then its gg. This is why u wont see Squirtle losing any PvT where the terran tries to go head to head macro against him, Squirtle is good enough to not be completely outplayed so he'll win once the clocks out.
I really do hope that every terran swaps to these 2 raxes in GSL atleast, then blizz might do something about the futility of TvP lategame and i can swap back to terran without feeling like a retard in every TvP i play for choosing to have to be twice as good as my opponent to win
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 13 2012 20:31 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:29 thepeonwhocould wrote:
Listen guys. IM.MvP and Keen are in the top 20 Terran players in the world. They are cheesing because the matchup is impossible late game. They want to win at any cost, and they feel this is the best way to win. Don't get angry at Keen/MvP, get angry at Blizzard for creating this situation. Blizzard has forced their hand. and squirtles top 5 toss perhaps they know he's a better player and THAT's why they cheese. But that can't be possible right? Has to be imbalance.
if you really think squirtle is a better play than MvP in any regards you have no clue about this game
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On June 13 2012 20:36 Welmu wrote:
First game was terrible from Keen (~2ghosts in lategame all the time and attacking without reason in bad moments all the time).
And 2nd and 3rd terrible from Squirtle not knowing how to react exactly even though he has played vs that cheese, before too =/
I wonder how you would react if people rated your games with the same attitude.
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I used to enjoy reading these things but man this thread :/
Pages and pages of balence whine followed by a huge circle jerk.
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If Squirtle doesn't advance because of this I'm going to be so mad. He deserves it, he needs it.
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Thorzain please learn from Keen.
If you ever rematch, repay that pokemon back.
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On June 13 2012 20:38 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:36 dmnum wrote:
this reminds me of when zergs were getting bunker rushed left and right(especially losira) and people kept saying that it was impossible to defend It was impossible to defend on the early maps.
Steppes of War was totally fine
Really!
No really!
I miss those days now  Tanks shelling your natural from low ground was the best.
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On June 13 2012 20:38 Chenz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:36 L3g3nd_ wrote:On June 13 2012 20:34 Tsubbi wrote:
as a zerg who faced a billion bunker rushes i wonder how the protoss should react to itperfectly? is there a recent vod or game where a p held that proxy 2 rax? sadly the only vods you will find is of terran winning with it IIRC Naniwa said after his loss to this against MVP that the best way to hold it is to drop a forge as soon as you held the first wave. Never seen someone try it though.
hmm this is what i do on ladder, seems to work well. Terrans ALWAYS follow it up by pulling every single SCV, so i just build 2 cannons and get called a hacker o.o
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Squirtle's reaction to that all in:
+ Show Spoiler +Except he did not deal with it.
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On June 13 2012 20:38 Rainfall7711 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 20:34 Kommander wrote:On June 13 2012 20:32 Rainfall7711 wrote:On June 13 2012 20:31 paradoxOO9 wrote:I don't know why people are so against anyone that cheeses. A win is a win, get over it. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t5wZl.gif) Unless a Protoss cheeses anyone. Then it's imbalance. Squirtle does a 5 gate: "OMG PROTOSS EARLY GAME IS STRONGER THAN TERRAN OMG OMG IMBA IMBA" Keen 2raxes twice: "ATTABOY KEEN YOU ROCK OH YEAH!" Team Liquid at its finest.  This is without exaggeration what happens, it's retarded.
I'm fairly new to TL, never expected the whining to be this bad. Getting flashbacks of what the official bnet forums are like O.o
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France13023 Posts
What's the song currently playing please?
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Sig updated. I just love the mentality of a winner
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On June 13 2012 20:36 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote:
lol squirtle so desperately loves his greedy builds.. keen just exploited it.
it's not greedy builds its toss needs gas and a cyber core to hold off mineral only units. Toss is in for 225 minerals and 3 workers on gas just to hold of marines. So terran should be able to build more stuff being that don't have to tech to survive, this is why T rushes have always been good.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Sloth_f3b828_743517.gif)
