Ryung traded evenly ( lost resources tab showed that) throughout the game, vines lost enough stalkers to the drop and more importantly this had no impact on the late game max vs max battle, even suggesting that it had to try to make some sense of what happened is so stupid it's laughable.This is what happened, regardless of balance or anything, everyone saw what vines did there, he attacked into a maxed out terran army concave, ate emps, but won the battle anyway despite Ryung pulling around 20 scvs to help and finally Vines finished with a 15 zealot warp in, that's all.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

May 23 2012 11:04 GMT

#606

It's always a bit hilarious when you hear the commentators in TvP say, "this protoss attack will never work," and then they're left in shock after something that technically should never work ends up working because of instant reinforcement from warpgates after 200/200 and faster upgrades from chronoboost.

Also, the only reason such a ridiculous attack into a tight choke ends up with Protoss destroying face like that guys is because Vines sat in his base chrono boosting 3/0/3 and then when 3/0/3 is done he simply 1A's and uses warpgate with mass chargelots from 1 pylon on the opponent's half of the map.

If both players are on 2/2 that attack probably does not work.

Anyways, this is all old hat, everyone understands, including blizzard, the problem with the match-up. The question is how long till they actually do anything about it. It's too unforgiving for the Terran player / forgiving for the Protoss. Even if that attack had failed vines can be safe across on his half of the map. If his attack succeeds in any way at all (like it did) he just warps in 16-20 zealots/archons and immediately ends the game. It's a huge problem.

On May 23 2012 19:55 Severian wrote:
Hey I'm a Terran player and I heard a Terran just lost a TvP, this is the thread for me to make not-so-veiled balance whines, right?

It's past that point. Nice sarcasm. The TvP lategame warpgate is a problem in the current state of the game, and basically everyone acknowledges it, including blizzard, and even commentators (including khaldor in this cast) mentioned it.

edit: keep in mind the map was cloud kingdom though, which most people considered protoss favored.

Shock710

Australia6097 Posts

May 23 2012 11:04 GMT

#607

On May 23 2012 20:03 dainbramage wrote:

Show nested quote +

lambolords?
bugattilords?

nah should be overlords everyone knows red makes things faster

00Visor

4337 Posts

May 23 2012 11:04 GMT

#608

On May 23 2012 20:03 Azzur wrote:
I don't know why zergs going allin when their defensive capabilities have been so buffed

Because most terrans go for late tanks these days and so many die to roach/bane allins.

Tsubbi

Germany7967 Posts

May 23 2012 11:04 GMT

#609

line really practised his zvt, seems to be in control of the game

Absentia

United Kingdom973 Posts

May 23 2012 11:04 GMT

#610

On May 23 2012 20:01 SupLilSon wrote:

Show nested quote +

How are you supposed to be ahead in upgrades vs protoss? Unless he opts not to get them or you luckily snipe his forge ;\ Terran can only hope to be even or maybe ahead on the first up or so.

You're not so you have to get more vikings instead.
Seems like protoss can't win a single game without people claiming it was imbalance. Ryung was facing, (I believe) a 5 colossus army with something like 11 vikings...that's just not enough.

fixed_point

Germany4891 Posts

May 23 2012 11:05 GMT

#611

ugh jjakiji

opterown

Australia54784 Posts

May 23 2012 11:05 GMT

#612

On May 23 2012 20:04 Shock710 wrote:

Show nested quote +

nah should be overlords everyone knows red makes things faster

overlamborghinis

Asha

United Kingdom38149 Posts

May 23 2012 11:06 GMT

#613

The return of MMhellion is cool. Not actually really seen it win much but it's a fun style.

teamamerica

United States958 Posts

May 23 2012 11:06 GMT

#614

On May 23 2012 20:00 Thrombozyt wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually taking 6-7 stalkers with them made the drop kinda even. Besides that, Protoss Kingdom does not allow for much drop harassment.

That aside:
Beware all people complaining, as tomatriedes will report you to get you warned.

Actually I started watching after Ryung lost the dropships. You CANNOT lose those dropships (10-12 minute) timing vs toss, it gives them the safety to take a 3rd. 6-7 stalkers isn't near the same investment. If you remember MVPs game on Cloud Kingdon vs Parting, he just threatens drops and normally takes his 3rd on 3rax, while most other Terrans scale up to 5rax before taking their 3rd. Now it makes a lot more sense. That gives you a much earlier 3rd, plus not losing the medivacs should have the toss take a later 3rd.

I still think Cloud Kingdom is stupid about PvT though, I don't know how much you can even threaten drops on a map where if you drop in base there shouldn't be a way for you to get out.

Everyone needs to shut the fuck up about Vines being up on upgrades though. Of course Toss is. I'll say it again but Terran can start 2/2 before Toss starts 1/1 and still Toss gets to 3/3 faster.

KristofferAG

Norway25712 Posts

May 23 2012 11:06 GMT

#615

On May 23 2012 20:03 KristofferAG wrote:

Show nested quote +

10.00
Roach Warren and another gas on the way for SuHoSin.
Engineering bay on the way for Jjakji.

Stim and +1 attack started by Jjakji.
Metabolic Boost on the way for SuHoSin.

Factory and another gas on the way for Jjakji.
7 Roaches on the way.

Bunker going downf or Jjakji.
Baneling Nest started by SuHoSin.

Roaches and lings moving out for SuHoSin.
Jjakji spots the Roaches, starts two more bunkers.

Stim finishes up.
Starport started by Jjakji.

Jjakji pulls up the ramp and into his main, quickly lifts off his CC and pulls almost all his units back, kills off so many Banelings SuHOSin can't bust!

SuHoSin pulls back, CC lands again.

15.00
+1 armor and Combat Shields on the way for Jjakji.
Burrow and 1/1 started by SuHoSin, Spire on the way.

3rd CC started by Jjakji.
Baneling Speed started by SuHoSin.

Double gas on the third of SuHoSin.
Blue Flame, Armory, another Refinery andanother Engineering Bay coming in for Jjakji.

Quick drop into the main of SuHoSin, but it's spotted and thwarted.

Macro Hatch for SuHoSin
Jjakji goes to clean up some Creep, but SuHoSin runs in with lings, forcing ap ickup. Mutalisks come in and start shooting the medivacs. One fall, full of Marines, but reinforcements from Jjakji arrive and force SuHoSin to pull back.

2/2 melee and +1 air armor on the way for SuHoSin.
Concussive Shells on the way for Jjakji, along with 2/2. +1 mech started.