Casters: Ben "DeMusliM" Baker and Cody "evoli" Conners
Format
The Evil Geniuses Master’s Cup Series League will feature 12 teams in a round robin format with each team matchup containing at least four best of three games between two teams. The top four teams at the end of the season will advance to the playoffs on a two day live broadcast weekend. Results Mousesports vs. Team Liquid
Its quite lucky for Mouz that they got Ret in a ZvZ. That is the only matchup they could defeat him in, especially in his current form (Thorzain has a horrible record against him too).
On March 20 2012 11:42 McFeser wrote: Its quite lucky for Mouz that they got Ret in a ZvZ. That is the only matchup they could defeat him in, especially in his current form (Thorzain has a horrible record against him too).
On March 20 2012 11:42 McFeser wrote: Its quite lucky for Mouz that they got Ret in a ZvZ. That is the only matchup they could defeat him in, especially in his current form (Thorzain has a horrible record against him too).
Ret's best matchup is ZvZ though.
Yeah, but not by a whole lot (Statistically). I just feel like there isn't a protoss on the team that could defeat him especially after watching him play at the Red Bull Lan. Thorzain's passive style, though he has been experimenting with drops, would not be enough to defeat Ret. But now that I think about it . . .. if Bigz doesn't kill Ret his macro is just going to give him the win so Mouz is screwed against Ret either way.
Got my TL keycap, TL mousepad, TL pin, razer deathadder, I am all geared up to cheer on our boys in blue! Oh and does anyone else agree that the EGMCSL is a FANTASTIC tournament, and as bad as it sounds, I love having Orb gone because I love have 2 players cast every game.
I think you're all being a little too optimistic about Liquid's chances here. Ret's favoured vs biGs, but it's ZvZ and biGs is pretty damn good too. Thorzain's favoured vs TLO. Zenio has good chances vs Morrow, but he's not a lock in his worst matchup and even with his recent success, I'm not convinced Sheth is the favourite vs Mana.
Honestly don't know who's going to win. I swear if this had been last year I would have said mouz no problem, but liquid has been on such a tear it reminds me of why they are so scary
MaNa < Sheth ThorZain > TLO MorroW < Zenio (I see the series hinging on this game. If MorroW wins, which he totally could, I think it goes to ace and ThorZain wins in the ace) biGs < Ret
Thinking a Liquid 3-1 but I could see a Mouz 3-2 as well.
On March 20 2012 15:53 Sandermatt wrote: Mouz takes Bigs over HasuObs and TL takes TLO over Hero. These are interesting decisions, I wonder if the other players where unavailable.
HerO had been playing pretty much everything up and till this point. We gave him a little break on 1,5/2 weeks from these things except NASTL finals and he had a little trip home to spend some time with his parents as he has been busy the past two holidays with events.
Agh, I really don't like that Liquid is so zerg heavy. They might roll fine with it in this format, especially considering all their zergs are excellent, but I wonder how it will do in the winners format, where the opposing team can just focus on sniping zergs (chance for Hero all-kill?).
As for this series, rooting for mouz, but Liquid is the favourite.
On March 20 2012 15:53 Sandermatt wrote: Mouz takes Bigs over HasuObs and TL takes TLO over Hero. These are interesting decisions, I wonder if the other players where unavailable.
You can't play anyone whenever you want. They have real lives too, and other commitments. EG I think has the most difficulty playing its top players week in and week out in the team leagues.
On March 20 2012 15:53 Sandermatt wrote: Mouz takes Bigs over HasuObs and TL takes TLO over Hero. These are interesting decisions, I wonder if the other players where unavailable.
HerO had been playing pretty much everything up and till this point. We gave him a little break on 1,5/2 weeks from these things except NASTL finals and he had a little trip home to spend some time with his parents as he has been busy the past two holidays with events.
Wow, this looks like it could be close. Does Sheth's ZvP win out despite Mana's 2-0 against Ret in the other finals? Can TLO step it up like he did against prime? Morrow is too much of an unknown to me to call his match up, does anyone have any info on his current form?
I think it's pretty unfortunate that Ret got a ZvZ, he's more or less second-in-line to Hero, and he's landed the most volatile matchup...
I've got so much respect for the Mouz lineup, I really can't decide who to cheer :o
On March 20 2012 20:11 kuroshiro wrote: Wow, this looks like it could be close. Does Sheth's ZvP win out despite Mana's 2-0 against Ret in the other finals? Can TLO step it up like he did against prime? Morrow is too much of an unknown to me to call his match up, does anyone have any info on his current form?
I think it's pretty unfortunate that Ret got a ZvZ, he's more or less second-in-line to Hero, and he's landed the most volatile matchup...
I've got so much respect for the Mouz lineup, I really can't decide who to cheer :o
GLHF.
The word out is that MorroWs TvZ is pretty sick, and he has been isolated in korea these last three, four months so i'd wait and see there.
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
Should probably stop signing Swedish and Ukrainian players too then, they also make their teams look better and carry them with results.
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
*Edit* - Above is sarcasm! Please, don't crucify me!
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
Yeah, Ret has only won more individual LAN titles than all of Mouz players put together, had better overall results than all of them and actually qualified for the GSL.
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
yeah you could be right if it wasn't the online tournament with the toughest competition in the world, taeja didn't have ridiculously good results in it, including staple winning records over many code S players/champions, + 2 allkills in gstl, etc. or are you denying taeja is one of the best terrans? outside of gsl he has THE best records. there isn't a foreign team that wouldn't have it's potential multiplied if they signed taeja now.
and if sheth and ret and tlo were actually winning online tournaments, yet they only have good results here and there by foreigner standards, i don't recall many actual wins.
Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
yeah you could be right if it wasn't the online tournament with the toughest competition in the world, taeja didn't have ridiculously good results in it, including staple winning records over many code S players/champions, + 2 allkills in gstl, etc. or are you denying taeja is one of the best terrans? outside of gsl he has THE best records. there isn't a foreign team that wouldn't have it's potential multiplied if they signed taeja now.
and if sheth and ret and tlo were actually winning online tournaments, yet they only have good results here and there by foreigner standards, i don't recall many actual wins.
Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
just enjoy the games and quit whining like a little kid that got smacked around by a girl in the playground
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
yeah you could be right if it wasn't the online tournament with the toughest competition in the world, taeja didn't have ridiculously good results in it, including staple winning records over many code S players/champions, + 2 allkills in gstl, etc. or are you denying taeja is one of the best terrans? outside of gsl he has THE best records. there isn't a foreign team that wouldn't have it's potential multiplied if they signed taeja now.
and if sheth and ret and tlo were actually winning online tournaments, yet they only have good results here and there by foreigner standards, i don't recall many actual wins.
Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
just enjoy the games and quit whining like a little kid that got smacked around by a girl in the playground
not agreeing with the praise of liquid team is not whining.
just learn to argue and quit acting like a little kid who thinks he is badass because he used swear words in the kindergarten.
On March 20 2012 23:58 msjakofsky wrote: Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
Ret won more LAN tournaments than HerO, Jinro has a better GSL record than him (as does Zenio for that matter), Sheth has a similar team league record and has contributed just as much to team league results.
You're just digging yourself in deeper, why would you not check whether what you're talking about is factually true before posting? -_-
On March 20 2012 22:57 ELA wrote: I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
God please. Don't state things as they are facts when you have little to zero knowledge of the situation(s).
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
yeah you could be right if it wasn't the online tournament with the toughest competition in the world, taeja didn't have ridiculously good results in it, including staple winning records over many code S players/champions, + 2 allkills in gstl, etc. or are you denying taeja is one of the best terrans? outside of gsl he has THE best records. there isn't a foreign team that wouldn't have it's potential multiplied if they signed taeja now.
and if sheth and ret and tlo were actually winning online tournaments, yet they only have good results here and there by foreigner standards, i don't recall many actual wins.
Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
lol
Here's Ret and Sheth's wins alone: Ret
Sheth
I dont even know why I bother linking this to you, as you are clearly biased - But just look up TeamLiquid and MouzSports on TL-pedia, look on tournament wins, count off HerO and Zenio's wins if you must, and TL still has way more and prestigious wins than Mouz has..
On March 20 2012 22:57 ELA wrote: I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
God please. Don't state things as they are facts when you have little to zero knowledge of the situation(s).
On March 20 2012 16:30 Ruscour wrote: mouz and Empire were neck and neck for best foreign team, and TL came along and snatched it recently. TL 3-1.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
yeah you could be right if it wasn't the online tournament with the toughest competition in the world, taeja didn't have ridiculously good results in it, including staple winning records over many code S players/champions, + 2 allkills in gstl, etc. or are you denying taeja is one of the best terrans? outside of gsl he has THE best records. there isn't a foreign team that wouldn't have it's potential multiplied if they signed taeja now.
and if sheth and ret and tlo were actually winning online tournaments, yet they only have good results here and there by foreigner standards, i don't recall many actual wins.
Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
just enjoy the games and quit whining like a little kid that got smacked around by a girl in the playground
not agreeing with the praise of liquid team is not whining.
just learn to argue and quit acting like a little kid who thinks he is badass because he used swear words in the kindergarten.
To be frank, you are the one who actually should 'learn to argue'. If you look at facts - no opinions, no subjective anything - TL is the most successful team in 2011 with most first places and tied for most top3 finished with EG. And these are very well spread out over the whole team; no one taking more than two first places and everybody but HayprO has a top3 finish.
ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
yeah you could be right if it wasn't the online tournament with the toughest competition in the world, taeja didn't have ridiculously good results in it, including staple winning records over many code S players/champions, + 2 allkills in gstl, etc. or are you denying taeja is one of the best terrans? outside of gsl he has THE best records. there isn't a foreign team that wouldn't have it's potential multiplied if they signed taeja now.
and if sheth and ret and tlo were actually winning online tournaments, yet they only have good results here and there by foreigner standards, i don't recall many actual wins.
Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
just enjoy the games and quit whining like a little kid that got smacked around by a girl in the playground
not agreeing with the praise of liquid team is not whining.
just learn to argue and quit acting like a little kid who thinks he is badass because he used swear words in the kindergarten.
To be frank, you are the one who actually should 'learn to argue'. If you look at facts - no opinions, no subjective anything - TL is the most successful team in 2011 with most first places and tied for most top3 finished with EG. And these are very well spread out over the whole team; no one taking more than two first places and everybody but HayprO has a top3 finish.
the learn to argue part was meant for the guy who just told me to shut up because he didn't agree with me.
if i count all the wins i consider major:
Ret: battlenet invitational, online iirc, no koreans assembly: great win vs the best foreigners, a bit outdated though
he took out MVP which is awesome but hasn't really beaten any other korean
Sheth: nice results, solid player overall, no major championship or good results vs koreans.
hero: torn up the foreigner scene as expected of a code a/arguably code s quality player
mouz: decent tourny results here and there but no major win, more solid results vs koreans though.
you see my point of view is that mouz is the best team skill-wise, not that they have the best results overall, i never said anything like that.
hero was the one carrying liquid through all the teamleagues and i dont think liquid will win without him (they still have ret though who was playing amazingly at red bull lan)
and they have zenio i completely forgot that they bought themselves another korean....
wold like to see a real "foreign team league" where no koreans are allowed mouz would own in that thing with empire (and maybe eg if huk finally decides to play in teamleagues but i don't think he would do better than jyp so i think they would still do pretty bad) or mouz signs taeja and ganzi and is the best "foreign team" again... but it doesn't seem to be their style to buy foreigners for even more success in teamleagues
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
On March 21 2012 00:30 msjakofsky wrote: battlenet invitational, online iirc, no koreans
You remember wrong. It was a live event in Poland, featured Ret playing multiple series against Nani and (incidentally) Thorzain - neither was very close.
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
that's not incorrect at all, if you check it... ret has beaten MVP and has some other koreans in one game here and there.
Thorzain: hero, crank, alicia, MC, fruitdealer, IM team allkill, 3-kill in GSTL, Mana beat MC, Puma, Nada, Clide, DRG, Crank etc.
On March 21 2012 00:30 msjakofsky wrote: battlenet invitational, online iirc, no koreans
You remember wrong. It was a live event in Poland, featured Ret playing multiple series against Nani and (incidentally) Thorzain - neither was very close.
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
that's not incorrect at all, if you check it... ret has beaten MVP and has some other koreans in one game here and there.
Thorzain: hero, crank, alicia, MC, fruitdealer, IM team allkill, 3-kill in GSTL, Mana beat MC, Puma, Nada, Clide, DRG, Crank etc.
Ret knocked MVP and aLive out of major LAN tournaments (MLG and IPL3), qualified for GSL and won a round, beat PartinG in a series at RB LAN just recently, and that's not even counting online wins which you can check for yourself - more carefully though, just like you did for mouz players.
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
that's not incorrect at all, if you check it... ret has beaten MVP and has some other koreans in one game here and there.
Thorzain: hero, crank, alicia, MC, fruitdealer, IM team allkill, 3-kill in GSTL, Mana beat MC, Puma, Nada, Clide, DRG, Crank etc.
Ret knocked MVP and aLive out of major LAN tournaments (MLG and IPL3), qualified for GSL and won a round, beat PartinG in a series at RB LAN just recently, and that's not even counting online wins which you can check for yourself - more carefully though, just like you did for mouz players.
didn't list all of mouz's wins either, and ret vs parting is not showed in tlpd. and finally let's agree that 1 year old gsl results don't matter
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
that's not incorrect at all, if you check it... ret has beaten MVP and has some other koreans in one game here and there.
Thorzain: hero, crank, alicia, MC, fruitdealer, IM team allkill, 3-kill in GSTL, Mana beat MC, Puma, Nada, Clide, DRG, Crank etc.
Ret knocked MVP and aLive out of major LAN tournaments (MLG and IPL3), qualified for GSL and won a round, beat PartinG in a series at RB LAN just recently, and that's not even counting online wins which you can check for yourself - more carefully though, just like you did for mouz players.
didn't list all of mouz's wins either, and ret vs parting is not showed in tlpd. and finally let's agree that 1 year old gsl results don't matter
Results don't matter to me at all personally, but if you want to count things, then they count just like everything else. It's not like TSL3 was very recent either.
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
that's not incorrect at all, if you check it... ret has beaten MVP and has some other koreans in one game here and there.
Thorzain: hero, crank, alicia, MC, fruitdealer, IM team allkill, 3-kill in GSTL, Mana beat MC, Puma, Nada, Clide, DRG, Crank etc.
Ret knocked MVP and aLive out of major LAN tournaments (MLG and IPL3), qualified for GSL and won a round, beat PartinG in a series at RB LAN just recently, and that's not even counting online wins which you can check for yourself - more carefully though, just like you did for mouz players.
didn't list all of mouz's wins either, and ret vs parting is not showed in tlpd. and finally let's agree that 1 year old gsl results don't matter
Results don't matter to me at all personally, but if you want to count things, then they count just like everything else. It's not like TSL3 was very recent either.
yeah true. still my point is that mouz still has better average results vs koreans, even if we count rets gsl results. you can't deny that... Ret is on par with the mouz standard though, it's just that the other foreigners in TL aren't.
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
that's not incorrect at all, if you check it... ret has beaten MVP and has some other koreans in one game here and there.
Thorzain: hero, crank, alicia, MC, fruitdealer, IM team allkill, 3-kill in GSTL, Mana beat MC, Puma, Nada, Clide, DRG, Crank etc.
Ret knocked MVP and aLive out of major LAN tournaments (MLG and IPL3), qualified for GSL and won a round, beat PartinG in a series at RB LAN just recently, and that's not even counting online wins which you can check for yourself - more carefully though, just like you did for mouz players.
didn't list all of mouz's wins either, and ret vs parting is not showed in tlpd. and finally let's agree that 1 year old gsl results don't matter
Results don't matter to me at all personally, but if you want to count things, then they count just like everything else. It's not like TSL3 was very recent either.
it's not like ret WON gsl last year but thorzain did win tsl....
worth noting that mouz is still 100% foreigner while tl picked up 2 koreans... without the koreans mouz is still heads above everyone else
Also worth noting is that if you make arbitrary changes to the roster, you can make any team look better than any other team.
funny that you say that cuz that's exactly what these foreigner teams are doing by signing koreans, making themselves looking better with koreans who carry them with results. team suddenly changes from mediocre to top and all the fans are so in love with the new koreans just because they have the teams prefix.
i guess you'll be happy too when the team that picks up Taeja suddenly transforms into the best foreign team and vile.taeja will allkil whole teamliquid in any team league with one hand tied behind his back. vile or [insert any random foreign team] will be really snatching it that time.
lol, very subtle hating going on here
I agree with you, TL's foreign roster aren't carrying their weight.. I mean, Sheth did all-kill EG only a few weeks ago but It was because EG's koreans were having lag.. TLO taking out GumiHo 2 weeks ago and Empire.Kas this weekend.. Coinflips, clearly
And Ret, just winning the Red Bull LAN tournament - Not that big of a deal, going through PartinG and Naniwa was all it took.
But yeah, im sure that Taeja, with his insanely hard run through S1 Code A (Squirtle, Hyun, Lucky) is able to beat any team, at any time, with his hands behind his back, while picking his nose with his feet - No question!
yeah right cuz random wins at online events etc matter just as much as tournament wins. nobody's saying sheth or ret are bad, but they're not really producing tourny results
you're also a little clueless about Taeja, not like i couldn't have written any random top korean player to make it true, but still
You dont think that its funny at all, that you say that winning random online tournaments arent as detrimental, when Korean Weekly itself is an online tournament?
yeah you could be right if it wasn't the online tournament with the toughest competition in the world, taeja didn't have ridiculously good results in it, including staple winning records over many code S players/champions, + 2 allkills in gstl, etc. or are you denying taeja is one of the best terrans? outside of gsl he has THE best records. there isn't a foreign team that wouldn't have it's potential multiplied if they signed taeja now.
and if sheth and ret and tlo were actually winning online tournaments, yet they only have good results here and there by foreigner standards, i don't recall many actual wins.
Ret is a solid player, that's true, but him qualifying for gsl a year ago doesn't really help your point, and the fact that most of TL's major results are hero's wins doesn't either.
just enjoy the games and quit whining like a little kid that got smacked around by a girl in the playground
not agreeing with the praise of liquid team is not whining.
just learn to argue and quit acting like a little kid who thinks he is badass because he used swear words in the kindergarten.
To be frank, you are the one who actually should 'learn to argue'. If you look at facts - no opinions, no subjective anything - TL is the most successful team in 2011 with most first places and tied for most top3 finished with EG. And these are very well spread out over the whole team; no one taking more than two first places and everybody but HayprO has a top3 finish.
Well, the first place finishes you qualified as valuable were also events that didn't include EG players and were even fairly unknown. Head-to-head, EG's win percentage versus Liquid was about 60% in 2011 with even lesser popular players maintaining higher win percentages versus the more popular Liquid players.
wold like to see a real "foreign team league" where no koreans are allowed
Sounds like a boring league indeed.
Why not just call it "Code C: The Best of the Rest"
well first of all foreigners are not that bad (and if you compare them to yourself they are gods xD) and it's still better than "b level korean mercenaries own up the rest"
The point was just that if you look objectively at it, then you're wrong. If you want to argue like this, you have to be objective. But by all means people can think A is better than B, but that doesn't make it true. It's an opinion and shouldn't be shared as if it was facts.
On March 21 2012 00:22 msjakofsky wrote: ELA: i never denied mouz has less tournament wins than liquid, i just think mouz roster is more solid overall- without hero and zenio. it's all subjective to a degree of course. you were the one who tried to discredit taeja, when he is undoubtedly better than anyone in mouz or liquid. mouz players have better results vs koreans too which matters to me more than decent results vs foreigners.
but yeah i admit i'm biased.
Being biased is one thing, everybody is biased. Saying things that are factually incorrect is something completely different (the part that concerns numbers at least, which are not subjective).
I wouldn't be so sure that mouz players have better results vs Koreans than Ret does. Thorzain alone might be close, but it'd still take some detailed counting.
that's not incorrect at all, if you check it... ret has beaten MVP and has some other koreans in one game here and there.
Thorzain: hero, crank, alicia, MC, fruitdealer, IM team allkill, 3-kill in GSTL, Mana beat MC, Puma, Nada, Clide, DRG, Crank etc.
Ret knocked MVP and aLive out of major LAN tournaments (MLG and IPL3), qualified for GSL and won a round, beat PartinG in a series at RB LAN just recently, and that's not even counting online wins which you can check for yourself - more carefully though, just like you did for mouz players.
didn't list all of mouz's wins either, and ret vs parting is not showed in tlpd. and finally let's agree that 1 year old gsl results don't matter
Results don't matter to me at all personally, but if you want to count things, then they count just like everything else. It's not like TSL3 was very recent either.
Sorry but TSL actually counts a lot IMO. Everyone who is the best foreigner now took part in TSL3. TSL is a mighty tradition that i think should not be under qualified.
wold like to see a real "foreign team league" where no koreans are allowed
Sounds like a boring league indeed.
Why not just call it "Code C: The Best of the Rest"
well first of all foreigners are not that bad (and if you compare them to yourself they are gods xD) and it's still better than "b level korean mercenaries own up the rest"
Since you want to watch foreigner-only team league, i just wanna drop by and introduce you the "starcraft 2 survivor league" and "incredible panic team league". Hope you enjoy watching these above-code-b level league.
also how is aTn doing in this league? I would love to see them get 1 score some time soon in the future.
Anyone here notice that whenever Team Liquid plays in any matchup and loses, I never see whining about lag, statements like "said TL player is better than X even though he lost", bitching and moaning, or any complaints at all?
Yet whenever Team Liquid wins anything, a ream of obsessive compulsive preteens comes onto these forums and tries to downplay their accomplishments. And yet Team Liquid is the most manner, kind-hearted roster on the face of the earth. Do they really deserve that kind of treatment?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
P.S. I think there a bit of irony in the constant predictions for TLO. Thus far, every match in team league that I've seen people state in advance (almost unanimously) that TLO will lose . . . he wins! I'm going with TLO this time around over Thorzain, even though Thorzain seems most consisitant in the long-run.
On March 21 2012 02:12 Bumblebee wrote: The point was just that if you look objectively at it, then you're wrong. If you want to argue like this, you have to be objective. But by all means people can think A is better than B, but that doesn't make it true. It's an opinion and shouldn't be shared as if it was facts.
Im pretty sure that bolded, is a Liquid'NonY-quote :D
I very much agree - Im not going to spend more energy debating Liquid vs. Mouz now - I litterally lose braincells reading some of these posts.. I just want to watch the games!
On March 21 2012 02:52 SCST wrote: Anyone here notice that whenever Team Liquid plays in any matchup and loses, I never see whining about lag, statements like "said TL player is better than X even though he lost", bitching and moaning, or any complaints at all?
Yet whenever Team Liquid wins anything, a ream of obsessive compulsive preteens comes onto these forums and tries to downplay their accomplishments. And yet Team Liquid is the most manner, kind-hearted roster on the face of the earth. Do they really deserve that kind of treatment?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
haven't ever seen that besides the thorzain-hero story, where thorzain's frustration was understandable even if it wasn't TL's fault.
also besides that never seen any of the mouz players BM ever.
On March 21 2012 02:52 SCST wrote: Anyone here notice that whenever Team Liquid plays in any matchup and loses, I never see whining about lag, statements like "said TL player is better than X even though he lost", bitching and moaning, or any complaints at all?
Yet whenever Team Liquid wins anything, a ream of obsessive compulsive preteens comes onto these forums and tries to downplay their accomplishments. And yet Team Liquid is the most manner, kind-hearted roster on the face of the earth. Do they really deserve that kind of treatment?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
haven't ever seen that besides the thorzain-hero story, where thorzain's frustration was understandable even if it wasn't TL's fault.
also besides that never seen any of the mouz players BM ever.
Not speaking about the players, just people on these forums.
On March 21 2012 02:52 SCST wrote: Anyone here notice that whenever Team Liquid plays in any matchup and loses, I never see whining about lag, statements like "said TL player is better than X even though he lost", bitching and moaning, or any complaints at all?
Yet whenever Team Liquid wins anything, a ream of obsessive compulsive preteens comes onto these forums and tries to downplay their accomplishments. And yet Team Liquid is the most manner, kind-hearted roster on the face of the earth. Do they really deserve that kind of treatment?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
P.S. I think there a bit of irony in the constant predictions for TLO. Thus far, every match in team league that I've seen people state in advance almost unanimously that TLO will lose . . . he wins! I'm going with TLO this time around over Thorzain, even though Thorzain seems most consisitant in the long-run.
pls, you really think "TL fans are better than the rest"? seriously? There are tons of excuses when you observe the LR thread when a TL player loses. It's either "he's to nervous" or some other standard excuses every one makes. And how can you judge that TL players are the most manner and kind-hearted? HOw do you know that? Doesn't the Community call 90% of pro gamers "super sweet and kind-hearted" without even talking to them once?
wold like to see a real "foreign team league" where no koreans are allowed
Sounds like a boring league indeed.
Why not just call it "Code C: The Best of the Rest"
well first of all foreigners are not that bad (and if you compare them to yourself they are gods xD) and it's still better than "b level korean mercenaries own up the rest"
Since you want to watch foreigner-only team league, i just wanna drop by and introduce you the "starcraft 2 survivor league" and "incredible panic team league". Hope you enjoy watching these above-code-b level league.
also how is aTn doing in this league? I would love to see them get 1 score some time soon in the future.
first of all you are implying that i don't watch those teamleagues which is not true 2. i meant with ALL the top foreign teams which is not the case with either of the leagues you mentioned... 3. what does aTn have to do with this? 4. aTn has scored in egmcsl so do your research before trying to bash a team...(i'm guessing you mean egmcsl with aTn since they have never participated in any other clan league before that afaik...)
On March 21 2012 02:52 SCST wrote: Anyone here notice that whenever Team Liquid plays in any matchup and loses, I never see whining about lag, statements like "said TL player is better than X even though he lost", bitching and moaning, or any complaints at all?
Yet whenever Team Liquid wins anything, a ream of obsessive compulsive preteens comes onto these forums and tries to downplay their accomplishments. And yet Team Liquid is the most manner, kind-hearted roster on the face of the earth. Do they really deserve that kind of treatment?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
haven't ever seen that besides the thorzain-hero story, where thorzain's frustration was understandable even if it wasn't TL's fault.
also besides that never seen any of the mouz players BM ever.
Not speaking about the players, just people on these forums.
well i haven't rly seen it on the forums either
but it's so easy to say stuff like that "whenever foreigner wins with cheese it's genius if MC does it it's stupid allin" etc it's not wise to generalize because 10-20 posters out of 50000 are like that. basically whoever wins a sc2 match there will be always bitter and happy people, if you happened to read some bitter posts that doesn't tell anything about the community
On March 21 2012 02:52 SCST wrote: Anyone here notice that whenever Team Liquid plays in any matchup and loses, I never see whining about lag, statements like "said TL player is better than X even though he lost", bitching and moaning, or any complaints at all?
Yet whenever Team Liquid wins anything, a ream of obsessive compulsive preteens comes onto these forums and tries to downplay their accomplishments. And yet Team Liquid is the most manner, kind-hearted roster on the face of the earth. Do they really deserve that kind of treatment?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
P.S. I think there a bit of irony in the constant predictions for TLO. Thus far, every match in team league that I've seen people state in advance almost unanimously that TLO will lose . . . he wins! I'm going with TLO this time around over Thorzain, even though Thorzain seems most consisitant in the long-run.
pls, you really think "TL fans are better than the rest"? seriously? There are tons of excuses when you observe the LR thread when a TL player loses. It's either "he's to nervous" or some other standard excuses every one makes. And how can you judge that TL players are the most manner and kind-hearted? HOw do you know that? Doesn't the Community call 90% of pro gamers "super sweet and kind-hearted" without even talking to them once?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
NOBODY here was bitching about TL, not even close. you confuse "thinks it's a bit overhyped" with "thinks it's terrible". and you go on insulting this fictional group of people.
i guess you're one of those who thought 2-3 months earlier that hero is the undisputed best protoss in the world and got angry when someone thought it's not true. there is a sensible line between being ridiculously biased and defensive and loving a team and cheering for it and you seem to have crossed it...
On March 21 2012 02:52 SCST wrote: Anyone here notice that whenever Team Liquid plays in any matchup and loses, I never see whining about lag, statements like "said TL player is better than X even though he lost", bitching and moaning, or any complaints at all?
Yet whenever Team Liquid wins anything, a ream of obsessive compulsive preteens comes onto these forums and tries to downplay their accomplishments. And yet Team Liquid is the most manner, kind-hearted roster on the face of the earth. Do they really deserve that kind of treatment?
Also, it's even more sad now that these same attention-starved kids are now coming onto the forum before the games are even played and are preemptively bitching and moaning about how Team Liquid is a terrible team and doesn't deserve to win etc. You'd think these people would have a little more class (but I suppose puberty is the first benchmark for developing values so it may not be any fault of their own).
P.S. I think there a bit of irony in the constant predictions for TLO. Thus far, every match in team league that I've seen people state in advance almost unanimously that TLO will lose . . . he wins! I'm going with TLO this time around over Thorzain, even though Thorzain seems most consisitant in the long-run.
pls, you really think "TL fans are better than the rest"? seriously? There are tons of excuses when you observe the LR thread when a TL player loses. It's either "he's to nervous" or some other standard excuses every one makes. And how can you judge that TL players are the most manner and kind-hearted? HOw do you know that? Doesn't the Community call 90% of pro gamers "super sweet and kind-hearted" without even talking to them once?
No one said TL fans are better than "the rest of fans". The truth may hurt, but the vast majority of people who cheer for TL do not BM their opponents or downplay their accomplishments (I've seen the nerves excuse used on Hero but that's it). Yet there is a substantial faction of individuals (not necessarily fans of other teams) who seem to have irrational hatred towards TL for no apparent reason.
How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion. And that's not to say that players from other teams are not amazing people either, just that the TL roster does not deserve the shit that they've been getting on these forums lately.
On March 21 2012 03:17 SCST wrote: How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion.
TLO disrespected Goody quite badly
Tyler rage quited with bad bm against mana in nasl season 1
2. i meant with ALL the top foreign teams which is not the case with either of the leagues you mentioned...
Top foreigner teams wouldn't waste their time in a league where the best possible competition isn't available. In addition, a league based around the idea of "everybody around the world come join, except you Koreans!" is both insulting and detrimental to continued improvement.
*sorry for the double post, I got carried away... >.>*
Sheth was one of the first persons "trash talking" a pro when he was interviewed in the NASL S1 after his match (well, he just unexpectedly said that Major (or Terran) was bad. Nothing "major" here, but you know, the Community here is sensible in every little thing).
And the Ret-Grubby drama. I tell you, Ret is an evil dude, He BMed Machine on his birthday.
(yes i am half joking, but still, there are no perfect mannered players, THANKFULLY)
On March 21 2012 03:17 SCST wrote: How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion.
TLO disrespected Goody quite badly
Tyler rage quited with bad bm against mana in nasl season 1
What did TLO do to disrespect goody badly? Just curious ^_^
On March 21 2012 03:17 SCST wrote: How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion.
TLO disrespected Goody quite badly
Tyler rage quited with bad bm against mana in nasl season 1
What did TLO do to disrespect goody badly? Just curious ^_^
there was a pretty popular drama thread about it iirc. TLO called goody horrible etc Goody even posted one of his very few posts about it on TL
2. i meant with ALL the top foreign teams which is not the case with either of the leagues you mentioned...
Top foreigner teams wouldn't waste their time in a league where the best possible competition isn't available. In addition, a league based around the idea of "everybody around the world come join, except you Koreans!" is both insulting and detrimental to continued improvement.
*sorry for the double post, I got carried away... >.>*
look i never said this is going to happen or should happen but if we don't have that noone should call a team that uses koreans in their a-team the top foreign team because you simply can't know how they would do without them (or actually you can xD think about tyler and haypro instead of zenio and hero in teamleagues and there you go....)
On March 21 2012 03:17 SCST wrote: How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion.
TLO disrespected Goody quite badly
Tyler rage quited with bad bm against mana in nasl season 1
What did TLO do to disrespect goody badly? Just curious ^_^
It was a cast of one of the TL opens. You can read it from here downwards.
On March 21 2012 03:17 SCST wrote: How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion.
TLO disrespected Goody quite badly
Tyler rage quited with bad bm against mana in nasl season 1
What did TLO do to disrespect goody badly? Just curious ^_^
He apparently called Goody bad during a TLOpen, which is BM for some reason. Calling green paper green paper shouldn't be BM as far as I'm concerned, but meh. The minute we start to demonize players for being honest is the minute we ask for a "professional" atmosphere that just lies to us to keep us happy.
Also, Liquid takes this battle as well to keep the Year of Liquid going! 3-1 this time though - Sheth's got it this time around.
On March 21 2012 03:17 SCST wrote: How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion.
TLO disrespected Goody quite badly
Tyler rage quited with bad bm against mana in nasl season 1
What did TLO do to disrespect goody badly? Just curious ^_^
He apparently called Goody bad during a TLOpen, which is BM for some reason. Calling green paper green paper shouldn't be BM as far as I'm concerned, but meh. The minute we start to demonize players for being honest is the minute we ask for a "professional" atmosphere that just lies to us to keep us happy.
Also, Liquid takes this battle as well to keep the Year of Liquid going! 3-1 this time though - Sheth's got it this time around.
Because Goody isn't bad and TLO said something stupid? Considering their successes after that point, it's safe to say the pot was calling the kettle black.
On March 21 2012 03:17 SCST wrote: How can I judge that TL's players are manner and kind-hearted? I've never seen a TL player disrespect his opponent, ever, in any way. Also, I've been following the players on TL for a very long time, before many of them were on the team. But you did get one thing right: it is a judgement that I'm making, in other words my opinion.
TLO disrespected Goody quite badly
Tyler rage quited with bad bm against mana in nasl season 1
What did TLO do to disrespect goody badly? Just curious ^_^
He apparently called Goody bad during a TLOpen, which is BM for some reason. Calling green paper green paper shouldn't be BM as far as I'm concerned, but meh. The minute we start to demonize players for being honest is the minute we ask for a "professional" atmosphere that just lies to us to keep us happy.
Also, Liquid takes this battle as well to keep the Year of Liquid going! 3-1 this time though - Sheth's got it this time around.
Because Goody isn't bad and TLO said something stupid? Considering their successes after that point, it's safe to say the pot was calling the kettle black.
TLO didn't call Goody bad, but he casted a game where he said something along the lines of "This is just terribly bad play by goody, so many mistakes" etc.
He didnt call GoodY bad, there's still a difference
I can't believe no one has brought up Zenio's bitchslapping of Idra back in the early seasons of the GSL. He was on oGs yes, but it still counts! Also if we are talking about BM . . . HerO vs. Painuser? I think TL has enough BM
There's nothing wrong in pointing out the mechanical mistakes Goody makes while casting a game. It's not a personal attack on someone, and it most certainly isn't bm. Artosis has said much worse things about GSL players (just remember san or BitByBit before he became a meme) when commenting on their play.
On March 21 2012 05:51 McFeser wrote: I can't believe no one has brought up Zenio's bitchslapping of Idra back in the early seasons of the GSL. He was on oGs yes, but it still counts! Also if we are talking about BM . . . HerO vs. Painuser? I think TL has enough BM
That wasnt really BM just a ceremony. I dont think Painuser would get offended
Any word on casters? Demuslim/Machine would be sweet they had a really good cast last time, or Demuslim/Idra that would be good as well OR Machine/Idra seen as there are so many zergs, any one of those would be super cool.
Given the match ups the casters really should be IdrA + DemusliM. There's 4 match ups with Zerg, and just 2 without a Terran. I am confident that DemusliM can say quiet a bit about PvZ as well, so there's only one match up where he couldn't say as much.
Obviously it could be Machine / DemusliM as well as they made a good casting duo when I watched, but I personally really like the knowledge and how he brings that knowledge to the viewers from IdrA.
To the matches themselves
MaNa < Sheth ThorZaIN > TLO MorroW > Zenio biGs < ret
Those matches are VERY close and some might go either way, this could really go either way and you would probably never get the same result if you played it again, but thats my prediction for today.
The ace match will be tricky, I don't know which event but we had mouz vs Liquid like one or two days ago and it was HerO 3-0 ThorZaIN so they might not send ThorZaIN. Since HasuObs didn't play here, but biGs did (no offence towards biGs) I think HasuObs wasn't available. This could be said about HerO as well, but I don't know.
Since Liquid is very zerg heavy mouz might send their vs Z player which might be MorroW or ThorZaIN, so I'm still going with ThorZaIN for mouz and I think it will be either HerO or TLO as ace.
The ace match will be tricky, I don't know which event but we had mouz vs Liquid like one or two days ago and it was HerO 3-0 ThorZaIN so they might not send ThorZaIN. Since HasuObs didn't play here, but biGs did (no offence towards biGs) I think HasuObs wasn't available. This could be said about HerO as well, but I don't know.
Bumblebee said earlier that HerO is having a short holiday after playing so much for them. So one of the players might be playing again (unless they call in HayPro?)
Morrow vs Zenio is definitely the crux here, though upsets can happen in the other matchups. I'm no fan of Morrow's style against Zenio. Had he drawn Ret or TLO, I'd swing the advantage to him, but Zenio's too stable for me to give him the advantage. That said, should that hurdle be taken, I can easily see Mouz taking it in ace.
After that, Sheth vs Mana is a close one, but I've really liked Sheth's ZvP lately but I can't say the same for Mana's, so I stil give the advantage to sheth. Ret gets one of his better matchups against the more green and inconsistent Bigs, so there's a strong lean towards Ret, Meanwhile, Thorzain is an extremely strong player going up against TLO, who while he is on a tear as of late, I'd still rank a full rung or two below Thorzain on his game.
On March 21 2012 05:51 McFeser wrote: I can't believe no one has brought up Zenio's bitchslapping of Idra back in the early seasons of the GSL. He was on oGs yes, but it still counts! Also if we are talking about BM . . . HerO vs. Painuser? I think TL has enough BM
That wasnt really BM just a ceremony. I dont think Painuser would get offended
What did HerO do as a ceremony against Painuser? I don't recall this event
On March 21 2012 05:51 McFeser wrote: I can't believe no one has brought up Zenio's bitchslapping of Idra back in the early seasons of the GSL. He was on oGs yes, but it still counts! Also if we are talking about BM . . . HerO vs. Painuser? I think TL has enough BM
That wasnt really BM just a ceremony. I dont think Painuser would get offended
What did HerO do as a ceremony against Painuser? I don't recall this event
On March 21 2012 05:51 McFeser wrote: I can't believe no one has brought up Zenio's bitchslapping of Idra back in the early seasons of the GSL. He was on oGs yes, but it still counts! Also if we are talking about BM . . . HerO vs. Painuser? I think TL has enough BM
That wasnt really BM just a ceremony. I dont think Painuser would get offended
What did HerO do as a ceremony against Painuser? I don't recall this event
TL Pylons
Huk must have taught him that one while he was still at the oGs house
On March 21 2012 10:48 blade55555 wrote: I thought idra/incontrol were casting again today or something it changed? LAME
IdrA/iNcontroL would have been pretty awesome especially considering TL is fielding an all-zerg lineup, but I always enjoy DeMusliM, and evoli is doing a great job.
On March 21 2012 11:07 Nyarly wrote: http://i.imgur.com/eE9uj.jpg this is bugging me, can someone read that ? DON'T ____ __ _____
Don't shoot at screen. It is from the bar in the campaign, in the opening cinematic raynor shoots the television screen when he gets pissed and later on in the missions that pops up beneath the new tv
On March 21 2012 11:07 Nyarly wrote: http://i.imgur.com/eE9uj.jpg this is bugging me, can someone read that ? DON'T ____ __ _____
Don't shoot at screen. It is from the bar in the campaign, in the opening cinematic raynor shoots the television screen when he gets pissed and later on in the missions that pops up beneath the new tv
Thanks you !
Now let's get back to rooting for sheth and teamliquid..
I really don't understand why ThorZaIN changed is build completely from his usual mech opening on Antiga to a greedy 3rd CC bio opening vs TLO who is known for that style he does use right now. If you prepare you usuall can prepare well against it. Not saying you could completely counter it and no its not easy, but you can set up yourself a lot better than that.
Not meaning to bash ThorZaIN as he's an excellent player but I just don't understand his decision behind it.
On March 21 2012 11:44 Type|NarutO wrote: I really don't understand why ThorZaIN changed is build completely from his usual mech opening on Antiga to a greedy 3rd CC bio opening vs TLO who is known for that style he does use right now. If you prepare you usuall can prepare well against it. Not saying you could completely counter it and no its not eIasy, but you can set up yourself a lot better than that.
Not meaning to bash ThorZaIN as he's an excellent player but I just don't understand his decision behind it.
no need for that edit bro, we all remember when he won tsl3. It was kind of strange that he played so greedy though.
I don't think TLO really capitalized on that early victory. He had a questionable composition that allowed tzain to get a 4th and really prolonged the game.
On March 21 2012 11:49 SCST wrote: Well, so far my prediction is coming true lol. Everyone counted TLO out, and he seems to win . . .
To be honest, ThorZaIN did fuck up pretty badly in their first engagement. He had enough tanks to easily shut down those lings or at least just TRADE, but he got completely f*cked there, because he didn't siege. Unexpected mistake by him.
And I don't think people count TLO out, he's an excellent player, especially ZvT but Antiga and overall ThorZaIN as opponent makes people think (me as well) that ThorZaIN will win it. That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that TLO is very good.
Really nice to see TLO doing well again He was my favorite player back in beta back when I played T before I switched to Z so it makes me very happy to see him doing well as Z now.
On March 21 2012 11:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: TLO really outplaying Thorzain there in game one.
2 banelings killing 30 marines is not outplaying.
Yea, I think Thorzain played more soundly overall, that first engagement he made a small mistake by not siegeing up when TLO made nonstop zerglings in the mid game. Even sieged, I thought he would have lost that engagement.
On March 21 2012 11:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: TLO really outplaying Thorzain there in game one.
Hahaha no.
He had multiple horrible engagements but then got lucky with a baneling bomb.
Yes it was pure luck that TLO decided to burrow his banelings and then pure luck when he detonated them at the exact right moment on mutiple occasions. Keep trying to downplay this guys accompishments just because he's on TL, everyone is laughing at you.
Oh yes, I forgot that it was pure luck when he beat MarineKing, Creator and Gumiho in team arena as well. When everything is pure luck for players that you don't like, then it's very simple: your biased.
On March 21 2012 11:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: TLO really outplaying Thorzain there in game one.
Hahaha no.
He had multiple horrible engagements but then got lucky with a baneling bomb.
Yes it was pure luck that TLO decided to burrow his banelings and then pure luck when he detonated them at the exact right moment on mutiple occasions. Keep trying to downplay this guys accompishments just because he's on TL, everyone is laughing at you.
I stated a pretty similar thing, so I feel free to answer here: I don´t want to downplay TLO´s achievments, he outsmarted ThorZaiN in this particular situation and deserved the win because of that. But he was not outplaying him. Outplaying is being never in danger and win without major difficulties. And that was certainly not the case.
On March 21 2012 11:53 SCST wrote: Yes it was pure luck that TLO decided to burrow his banelings and then pure luck when he detonated them at the exact right moment on mutiple occasions. Keep trying to downplay this guys accompishments just because he's on TL, everyone is laughing at you.
What the hell is your problem? If anything I'm downplaying TLO as a frustrated terran player, it has nothing to do with the team.
The fact is that TLO went from getting a huge advantage early to losing every engagement (no infestors, miscontrol), until that baneling bomb completely turned things back around. Luck is actually a pretty big factor in Starcraft and while Thorzain did a mistake by not scanning, TLO did get lucky when he killed so many marines with just 2 banes.
At least saying that TLO "totally outplayed" Thorzain is just blatantly wrong.
On March 21 2012 11:53 SCST wrote: Yes it was pure luck that TLO decided to burrow his banelings and then pure luck when he detonated them at the exact right moment on mutiple occasions. Keep trying to downplay this guys accompishments just because he's on TL, everyone is laughing at you.
What the hell is your problem? If anything I'm downplaying TLO as a frustrated terran player, it has nothing to do with the team.
The fact is that TLO went from getting a huge advantage early to losing every engagement (no infestors, miscontrol), until that baneling bomb completely turned things back around. Luck is actually a pretty big factor in Starcraft and while Thorzain did a mistake by not scanning, TLO did get lucky when he killed so many marines with just 2 banes.
At least saying that TLO "totally outplayed" Thorzain is just blatantly wrong.
Thozain didn't play REALLY well, it's more like TLO scouted too late for the mech, missed his timing of that fake drop (even if it did hit, it would have not done enough) and didn't make use of burrow TLO third was way too late.
On March 21 2012 12:05 Angelbelow wrote: Mech is so tough to play against.
Even if that's a valid statement, it cannot be made after that last game because of how poorly TLO played overall. That last game was not a good indicator of mech being too hard to play against.
On March 21 2012 12:05 Angelbelow wrote: Mech is so tough to play against.
Even if that's a valid statement, it cannot be made after that last game because of how poorly TLO played overall. That last game was not a good indicator of mech being too hard to play against.
but... it's a true statement.. he didn't say 'mech is OP', he didn't say 'thors so imba' or even 'shakuras too easy to mech on'
He just said it's hard to play against. I think we should allow him to share his struggles with the thread as a whole.
Absolute BRILLIANCE! by ThorZaIN with that single marauder he did pick off a few zerglings. Absolutely brilliant to keep the baneling count lower! (or at least delay it). I don't understand the reasoning behind those marauders. I understand the first, not the once he did after that... but I guess he wanted to go for marauder/hellion variation.
Well the supply differential couldn't get any worse when ThorZaIN did hit 200... well without a fight that is. I guess TLO could have lost more units. But yeah, this game is over and was lost way before the 20 minute mark.
i wish my zerg opponents would donate so much missrallied units to me on the middle of the map, usually i have to position my army at a nexus point between the zerg bases. Wonder why tlo looks so shaky there, was playing better last time i saw him. But thorzain is inspiring as always. Can't get enough mouz vs tl.
WTF!?!?!? sweet commercial right before the final engagement, and now it's the caster desk talking about Thorzain's win. is there a reason i'm not supposed to see the end of the game?
Thorzain is ahead of the curve in Terran strategy. Yeah, ghosts don't do jack against broodlords and ultras anymore, but if you take care of the infestors, you can just build vikings and marines against broodlords and marauders against ultras. Infestors are the backbone. Terrans think the broodlords are the backbone, but they're not. Broodlords without infestors aren't good. Once Terrans figure that out I think Zergs are going to have to work a lot harder to win.
On March 21 2012 12:36 Zzoram wrote: I don't think Ghosts would've worked anywhere near that well if Broodlords were guarding the Infestors.
In this game, Ghosts were only made AFTER all the Broodlords died, and basically killed undefended Infestors.
I know that's what Stephano says, but snipe has a long range, and brood lords are slow. You can flank them, drop ghosts from medivacs, cloak ghosts - do all sorts of things to get them in position to snipe the infestors behind the brood lords. Running ghosts in from the front do not work because the broods just kill them, but you don't have to do that, and one well positioned EMP or a couple of good snipes can swing a late-game battle - it's better than building a few more marauders.
On March 21 2012 12:36 Zzoram wrote: I don't think Ghosts would've worked anywhere near that well if Broodlords were guarding the Infestors.
In this game, Ghosts were only made AFTER all the Broodlords died, and basically killed undefended Infestors.
I know that's what Stephano says, but snipe has a huge range, and brood lords are slow. You can flank them, drop ghosts from medivacs, cloak ghosts - do all sorts of things to get them in position to snipe the infestors behind the brood lords. Running ghosts in from the front do not work because the broods just kill them, but you don't have to do that, and one well positioned EMP or a couple of good snipes can swing a late-game battle - it's better than building a few more marauders.
The Terran army requires so much micro already compared to the Zerg army, that adding the complexity of microing the Ghosts might be too much to handle. People should try it more though just to see.
On March 21 2012 12:27 GrimReefer wrote: WTF!?!?!? sweet commercial right before the final engagement, and now it's the caster desk talking about Thorzain's win. is there a reason i'm not supposed to see the end of the game?
I dont know why that happens to some people. I have my adblock off for twitch but I never get interrupted in game. I only get ads on top of the sponsor commercials that they play.
On March 21 2012 12:50 blade55555 wrote: It's kinda crazy how sick morrow's tvz is when he plays both races, have to give him major props with how well he can play both races.
Well he playes TvZ, ZvT, ZvP. So he has 3 match ups and superb understanding of TvZ, because he knows both sides.
On March 21 2012 12:50 blade55555 wrote: It's kinda crazy how sick morrow's tvz is when he plays both races, have to give him major props with how well he can play both races.
Well he playes TvZ, ZvT, ZvP. So he has 3 match ups and superb understanding of TvZ, because he knows both sides.
I know but it's still really hard to get good at that, being good with terran even if its only tvz and being good zvt/zvp isn't an easy task when terran is played different then zerg ^^.
Morrow seems to move out pretty randomly and picks some strange places to siege up early on. Really needs to work on timings and figuring out how to attack more efficiently imo.
On March 21 2012 12:55 Die4Ever wrote: WOA GUYS MORROW USED GHOSTS!
I do think tvz late game should still incorporate at least 3 ghosts just for emp/snipe of infestors. Especially vs super heavy infestor players like stephano I think ghosts are a must and hope terrans keep adding 3-5 ghosts just for emp/snipe on infestors ^^.
On March 21 2012 12:55 Hall0wed wrote: Morrow seems to move out pretty randomly and picks some strange places to siege up. Really needs to work on timings and figuring out how to attack more efficiently imo.
Poor play from both however.
What...? Absolute stunning place from MorroW when it was still muta/ling/bane. And brilliant defence against Broodlords now. The only thing that didn't work so well was the initial fight against the first ling/infestor/broodlord force.
there are lot of things to snipe infestors, banshees/ghost/marauders. After the snipe change i must say the ghost does really well if you know how to handle the zerg detection. Another thing i like is to scan bit behind the zerg, drop a mule there and run in a cloaked ghost couple/or marauders squad. (mule will let all broodlords attack the mule, so there won't be anything bothering your marauders/ghosts except fungals) Doing that a few seconds before attacking really helps your vikings to survive.
And never let morrow into late late game in tvz. On the other hand, i love seeing morrow in zvt tvz late late game !
We really need more players like Morrow! I wish there was a player that played Protoss and Terran/Zerg at such a high level to show us all what the other races hate!
On March 21 2012 12:27 GrimReefer wrote: WTF!?!?!? sweet commercial right before the final engagement, and now it's the caster desk talking about Thorzain's win. is there a reason i'm not supposed to see the end of the game?
I dont know why that happens to some people. I have my adblock off for twitch but I never get interrupted in game. I only get ads on top of the sponsor commercials that they play.
You have to look at the people he beats in ZvT - foreigner Terrans are not that good.
Still the record is way better and he played pretty good foreigners as well as Bo1 vs Puma and Acopalypse. ZvT was said to be clearly his best matchup some months ago. Maybe his TvZ is up there, but not higher.
On March 21 2012 12:27 GrimReefer wrote: WTF!?!?!? sweet commercial right before the final engagement, and now it's the caster desk talking about Thorzain's win. is there a reason i'm not supposed to see the end of the game?
I dont know why that happens to some people. I have my adblock off for twitch but I never get interrupted in game. I only get ads on top of the sponsor commercials that they play.
are you watching on twitch.tv or via teamliquid?
Via Twitch.tv. I have adblock off for twitch.tv to support so I always make the effort to watch on twitch.
I don't even know what I'm watching right now, bad non-cancel from Zenio, but I don't think any zerg could win if he maintains this play throughout the games.
On March 21 2012 13:19 TheNessman wrote: morrow has the most fundamental understanding of banelings, he knows exactly how to split perfectly every time.
I don't think its so much "understanding", hes just really really fast.
On March 21 2012 13:19 TheNessman wrote: morrow has the most fundamental understanding of banelings, he knows exactly how to split perfectly every time.
I don't think its so much "understanding", hes just really really fast.
I think hes just really really good at micro. I mean, one of the most popular micro trainer maps (RMC? i think) on the custom map list is made by morrow
If i remember correctly he is also the number 1 (or at least top 3) record holder on the marine split challenge map (someone correct me if im wrong)
Playing both Zerg and Terran gives Morrow a strategic advantage, but I don't know if it's worth having to mind switch and mechanic switch each time you switch race. Morrow's problem in a lot of tournaments is that he's not solid enough. I wonder if he'll benefit from sticking to Terran with micro like that.
hahahahah everyone else who is responding MISSED the fact that there was a more recent GSL season that I am referring to. Season __TWO__ guys, so like, march now i guess.
On March 21 2012 13:28 Heinsenzerg wrote: hehe, demuslim adding a little heat to the controversy of the nasl team league finals, saying he would have felt robbed if he was throzain
Getting to delay your match because you're not even there for the finals is the opposite of being robbed. Mouz should've been required to play the game at the scheduled time with an available player.
Under NASL rules, if you delay your match, the other team gets server advantage. TL chose to only take every other map server advantage to be leniant.
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
guys rich just posted. edit: rich i loooooove you <3 <3 <3 <3 plz don't ban me??
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
Went away , what did they say? And what situation :o?
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
Went away , what did they say? And what situation :o?
You should check the NASTL mouz vs TL thread. Thorzain made a complaint at the end of the game 3 in the ace match against Hero
On March 21 2012 13:28 Heinsenzerg wrote: hehe, demuslim adding a little heat to the controversy of the nasl team league finals, saying he would have felt robbed if he was throzain
Getting to delay your match because you're not even there for the finals is the opposite of being robbed. Mouz should've been required to play the game at the scheduled time with an available player.
Under NASL rules, if you delay your match, the other team gets server advantage. TL chose to only take every other map server advantage to be leniant.
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
Apparently everybody who says something bad about TL is now "trying to manufacture drama where there is none" Maybe they were uninformed? Honestly, who cares, nothing anybody can do to change it now.
On March 19 2012 13:46 Xeris wrote: Hello! Due to the potential drama that this Grand Finals match may stir up in the community. I feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding the match so that there will be no misunderstanding of the situation. First, I will outline some basic information about the NASTL playoff week, and then explain what happened from my (as a neutral 3rd party and league administrator) perspective. This will hopefully help explain the decision to play the ace match Wednesday morning and that, given the unfortunate circumstances for both teams, was the fairest possible solution.
This problem could have been resolved if both teams had chosen a different player for the ace match - however, neither team was willing to accommodate the other. Therefore, since both were set on using HerO and ThorZaiN, we were left with setting a time that was not ideal for either party.
General Background Information
We flew in iNcontroL for the week to cast the finals
The studio closed down Wednesday afternoon to install and set up new equipment to get ready for season 3
Therefore, we had a hard deadline of wednesday morning, which teams were notified well in advance
NASTL rules have server changes in order to promote fairness, games are played on all servers: NA, EU, and KR
Info About the match
Liquid selected HerO as their ace knowing it would be late for him in korea
Mouz selected ThorZaiN as their ace despite the fact that he had other obligations (showmatch vs sheth at the time)
Because of this, Mouz was unable to play the ace when the score was tied 2-2 (Thorzain was playing other games)
Due to delays it was unable to be played on tuesday: Liquid rightly asked to push it back since it was pushing 4am in Korea and the match had yet started. Wednesday morning was the last time available to play
A four hour time window was given, Mouz selected 11am EST to play
I contacted the Redbull LAN staff and they cleared time and space for him to play this match
NASTL rules would have given Liquid server advantage in the ace, but to be more fair, both teams agreed to do server swap in between each game, and the starting server was chosen by coin flip (which Liquid won)
We understand the situation was far from ideal for both parties (thorzain had to play from the red bull tournament, hero had to play at 3am) - but this was literally the last time available to play the match
We believe that this was the best and most fair solution (playing wednesday morning, server changing, coin flip to decide start map) given the circumstances
We never want to see the ace match of a final played in an un-ideal situation for either player, but we were unfortunately working within very defined time slots in order to play. Thank you all for understanding, and apologies to both Mouz and Liquid for the ordeal.
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
Went away , what did they say? And what situation :o?
You should check the NASTL mouz vs TL thread. Thorzain made a complaint at the end of the game 3 in the ace match against Hero
They coin flipped for the first server and then they switched after every game, also the game was at 3 A.M for HerO so I don't really understand how TL is being slimy...
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
Apparently everybody who says something bad about TL is now "trying to manufacture drama where there is none" Maybe they were uninformed? Honestly, who cares, nothing anybody can do to change it now.
You shouldn't say something like that if you are not certain.
On March 21 2012 13:30 R1CH wrote: Disappointed in these casters being so misinformed about the NASTL situation. Seems like they are trying to manufacture drama where there is none.
Went away , what did they say? And what situation :o?
You should check the NASTL mouz vs TL thread. Thorzain made a complaint at the end of the game 3 in the ace match against Hero
They coin flipped for the first server and then they switched after every game, also the game was at 3 A.M for HerO so I don't really understand how TL is being slimy...
I completely agree, I'm on TL's side wholeheartedly. I was giving a neutral non-spoilered response
I dont think what demuslim said should be taken too seriously because he is misinformed and most of us know what happened. This situation will amount to nothing unless everyone overreacts.
On March 21 2012 13:36 Angelbelow wrote: I dont think what demuslim said should be taken too seriously because he is misinformed and most of us know what happened. This situation will amount to nothing unless everyone overreacts.
Exactly...Jesus posting stuff claiming things like "casters are trying to manufacture drama when there is none" is what leads to drama in the first place... Yes, I'm looking at you R1ch.
On March 21 2012 13:36 Angelbelow wrote: I dont think what demuslim said should be taken too seriously because he is misinformed and most of us know what happened. This situation will amount to nothing unless everyone overreacts.
Exactly...Jesus posting stuff claiming things like "casters are trying to manufacture drama when there is none" is what leads to drama in the first place... Yes, I'm looking at you R1ch.
Why is Ret trying to win this without any tech; only now hitting infestors fail muta play as well - if he wasn't such a macro monster he'd have been overrun a long time ago
so why didnt he get infestors? He had 1100 gas in both of those last two fights, you clearly cant go roach vs Roach infestor.... Hes much better than that game
hehe someone forgot to bring his spellcasters to a fight. Queens and infestors add up so much more supply to an army if the casts hit and those casts did hit. Bad decision to not tech up after he saw the infestors. But really good move that bigs got the 3rd down with his roaches, otherwise the worker advantage for ret would have mattered.
On March 21 2012 13:45 Bagration wrote: Hmm, it seems that infestors seems to be the dominant lair tech in ZvZ. Mutas are countered by fungals so badly it isn't even funny.
Everything in zvz is viable honestly muta/infestor/hydra, but when going muta and you go into roach you can't not tech up ever and keep only roach vs roach/infestor xD
On March 21 2012 13:42 blade55555 wrote: Oh man Ret going pure roach 2/2 upgrades I don't like. Infestor/hydra with roach support beats pure roach2/2 even if behind on upgrades xD.
If I remember right, +2armor wasn't even finished when ret walked up.
On March 21 2012 13:45 Bagration wrote: Hmm, it seems that infestors seems to be the dominant lair tech in ZvZ. Mutas are countered by fungals so badly it isn't even funny.
Everything in zvz is viable honestly muta/infestor/hydra, but when going muta and you go into roach you can't not tech up ever and keep only roach vs roach/infestor xD
It was strange how late Ret teched to infestors. But I guess he just fell into a mental groove and forgot
On March 21 2012 13:48 Shellshock1122 wrote: 10 pool by ret
Is this a semi-allin by Ret? Sorry, I have no clue what goes on ZvZ Like, a "i must do damage right now" situation?
Yes he must do damage vs a 14/14 or take a huge risk to come back, but Ret is really far behind and baneling tech is out I don't think ret can survive.
Nevermind Ret's actually fine now, bigs didn't take advantage of his baneling tech and think the games more even now.
Ret's understanding of ZvZ timings are a bit off. I liked his idea in Game 1 - going Mutas on that map to secure and hold a third while denying your opponent's is good, but the infestor switch had to be a lot faster. Game 2, going mutas was the wrong call there, but then that whole game was weird so idk what Ret thought.
On March 21 2012 13:48 Shellshock1122 wrote: 10 pool by ret
Is this a semi-allin by Ret? Sorry, I have no clue what goes on ZvZ Like, a "i must do damage right now" situation?
ZvZ is all about adapting, while trying to get any amount of drone advantage. the thing is, 6 lings almost always beats 4, and in sc2, 20 lings almost always beats 18. The first person who decides to make lings forces the other one to. This means that both players can "agree" to macro as much as possible, because both know that as soon as someone makes lings, the other one will. the word of ZvZ is adaption.
In ZvZ you are always strongest the moment whatever you've just built is built. because that means you were building drones up until that point.
Holy crap man, I prefer Mouz over Liquid as much as the next person, but everytime I see you post you just spam all caps and post like 8 times per page. Just settle down a bit lol
Well, this victory over Liquid puts Mouz in a very comfortable position in the standings. They've already beaten Liquid and Slayers, so 2 of the toughest of teams in the league they don't need to worry about.
A bit unfortunate for Liquid, losing to Mouz, especially after they already got upset by Dignitas (a team they should have won against). With their only win coming from It's Gosu, Liquid needs to really strap down and bring their A-game for the next few matches.
Holy crap man, I prefer Mouz over Liquid as much as the next person, but everytime I see you post you just spam all caps and post like 8 times per page. Just settle down a bit lol
LOL YOU CLEARLY DONT LIKE IT AS MUCH AS I DO , you liar.
I just don't see the problem with my posting habits, I feel that most sc2 fans are very very inactive during games, and i'm not and i don't see whats wrong with that. i don't mind posting almost to myself...
the way i see it, It's like everyone who has this thread open is standing in a big room. In BW LR we would all talk to each other and listen and respond but now in sc2 the talking is so different in LRs thread. I don't get why people don't talk and watch at the same time
On March 21 2012 14:05 GunPaladin wrote: Mouz unstoppable, I love the Liquid guys but maybe it's time to diversify their ranks.
Yeah man, especially given they just won NASTL over Mouz a few days ago, Ret wnning the mini-Red Bull tournie, Hero/Zenio making Code S, Sheth being a genuine beast in previous team leagues, and TLO going from strength to strength (beating Kas 3-0 a few days ago...). They really need to diversify their ranks.
On March 21 2012 14:05 GunPaladin wrote: Mouz unstoppable, I love the Liquid guys but maybe it's time to diversify their ranks.
Yeah man, especially given they just won NASTL over Mouz a few days ago, Ret wnning the mini-Red Bull tournie, Hero/Zenio making Code S, Sheth being a genuine beast in previous team leagues, and TLO going from strength to strength (beating Kas 3-0 a few days ago...). They really need to diversify their ranks.
Oh wait.
lol i think its more like right now , all of their active players except hero are Z.
On March 21 2012 14:05 GunPaladin wrote: Mouz unstoppable, I love the Liquid guys but maybe it's time to diversify their ranks.
Yeah man, especially given they just won NASTL over Mouz a few days ago, Ret wnning the mini-Red Bull tournie, Hero/Zenio making Code S, Sheth being a genuine beast in previous team leagues, and TLO going from strength to strength (beating Kas 3-0 a few days ago...). They really need to diversify their ranks.
Oh wait.
lol i think its more like right now , all of their active players except hero are Z.
Yeah Mouz! Pitty its not the other way around (winning final of NASTL and losing this one) but its good nontheless. Showing true power to nonbelivers hehe
liquid without hero just can`t compete vs the really big names...
Teams have a hard time without their best player, go figure -_- Things would look pretty different for mouz without Thorzain in the lineup.
Quite sure HasuObs could beat TLO too.
First of all TLO has the potential to beat both of them as they both have the potential to beat him... if you were betting on the game maybe you would put your money on Hasu or Thorzain to win but TLO wouldn't be a huge underdog anyways 2-1/3-2 realistically at the most with the strategical variance of the game.
Anybody can beat anybody that is the nature of the game, not many people would think ret would lose to bigs but it happened... liquid could win without hero just as mouz could win without thorzain or hasu or whatever... nobody on these teams is so unstoppable that they can't lose a best of 3 to a player who has time to prepare stylistically and strategically for the matchup as there is still so much in this game that is not fine tuned to perfection yet, one or two bad positional engagements or a lack of scouting at the proper time can outright end a game.
You may be right if it was an all kill format that liquid would have a much harder time without hero or Thorzain for mouz but in this format they couldve won 3-1 in the series without ever bringing it to an ace match if things had turned out differently. 1) TLO beat thorzain which he had a shot at, the series was 2-1 and a couple bad engagements really costed him 2) Ret not losing unexpectingly to bigs... 3) if Ret had beat bigs it would have went to ace match even with TLO's loss where they still have options to take down mouz's ace regardless of who it is if Ret or Zenio are on their game and Hero can't play for some reason. obviously these are all good players on high level teams so there is bound to be variation in winning and losing... nobody is unstoppable. Every player that has been called unstoppable MC, Nestea, MVP have all gone through losing streaks and lost to some players that people wouldn't consider the elite of the elite in korea or the foreigner scene.
liquid without hero just can`t compete vs the really big names...
Teams have a hard time without their best player, go figure -_- Things would look pretty different for mouz without Thorzain in the lineup.
Quite sure HasuObs could beat TLO too.
First of all TLO has the potential to beat both of them as they both have the potential to beat him... if you were betting on the game maybe you would put your money on Hasu or Thorzain to win but the odds wouldn't be better then 2-1/3-2 realistically with the strategical variance of the game.
Anybody can beat anybody that is the nature of the game, not many people would think ret would lose to bigs but it happened... liquid could win without hero just as mouz could win without thorzain or hasu or whatever... nobody on these teams is so unstoppable that they can't lose a best of 3 to a player who has time to prepare stylistically and strategically for the matchup as there is still so much in this game that is not fine tuned to perfection yet, one or two bad positional engagements or a lack of scouting at the proper time can outright end a game.
You may be right if it was an all kill format that liquid would have a much harder time without hero or Thorzain for mouz but in this format they couldve won 3-1 in the series without ever bringing it to an ace match if things had turned out differently. 1) TLO beat thorzain which he had a shot at, the series was 2-1 and a couple bad engagements really costed him 2) Ret not losing unexpectingly to bigs... 3) if Ret had beat bigs it would have went to ace match where they still have options to take down mouz's ace regardless of who it is if Ret or Zenio are on their game and Hero can't play for some reason. obviously these are all good players on high level teams so there is bound to be variation in winning and losing... nobody is unstoppable. Every player that has been called unstoppable MC, Nestea, MVP have all gone through losing streaks and lost to some players that people wouldn't consider the elite of the elite in korea or the foreigner scene.
My point was that mouz is a lot less reliant on their "ace" player than Liquid are. You do not need to type out a wall of text and take it way out of context.
So nice to see a foreigner team that actually only fields foreigners win, calling yourself the best foreign team when you are getting carried by two koreans just seems wrong.
Just watched it on Twitch. Congratulations to Mouz and it was nice to see MorroW beasting it up. Thanks EG for the games and good casting. My favorite part was when Demuslim called Ret "Hitler". Or maybe he said "he has hit lair" which said fast with his accent made it sound like that. Maybe..
Nice seeing BiGs owning it up. I think it won´t be long before Mouz will have a Big 5 instead of a Big 4. Mousesports roster may be small, but it has a lot of quality.
Any chance of getting a spoiler free direct link to the vods in the OP (when they’re available)? I’ve been searching around a bit but don’t want to do it anymore (like enter EG’s site for example) because I don’t want to have the results spoiled before seeing the matches. Thanks.
On March 22 2012 07:37 AlgeriaT wrote: Any chance of getting a spoiler free direct link to the vods in the OP (when they’re available)? I’ve been searching around a bit but don’t want to do it anymore (like enter EG’s site for example) because I don’t want to have the results spoiled before seeing the matches. Thanks.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PDbG8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3086/mouzicon.png)
![[image loading]](http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7029/vslogo.png)
![[image loading]](http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8451/teamliquidicon.png)
MaNa <ESV Cloud Kingdom> 
Sheth
ThorZaIN <GSL Antiga Shipyard> ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LVmmV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://oi41.tinypic.com/dd154k.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/D1J8T.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FG0JZ.png)
no need for that edit bro, we all remember when he won tsl3. It was kind of strange that he played so greedy though.
