- Best of 5 -- 4 BO3 1v1s (Updated for playoffs) -- If tied after all 4 games there is a BO5 Ace Match (Updated for playoffs) - Players are picked before the match is started and picked based on the given map - 7 Week Season - Top 4 are seeded into Playoffs
Hmm, TLO against Gumiho is probably the best for TL, since Gumiho could have taken out Zenio or Hero just as well, and TLO's crazy play could catch Gumiho off guard.
Lucky's ZvZ just seems mediocre, so I hope Sheth beats him.
Oz should be favored against Hero, but I hope Hero can bring the upset.
Zenio is very strong in ZvZ, so this could be close.
Likely to go to an ace match, but I hope Liquid wins. Go Liquid!
TLO < TPW Artifice > GuMiho Gumiho has beat some pretty good players lately and I haven't seen a lot from TLO Sheth < ESV Ohana RE > Lucky not sure how lucky is at ZvZ so i'll give this one to sheth HerO < Antiga Shipyard > Oz Oz has beaten a lot of good Ps so I think he should take this Zenio < TPW Odyssey > Leenock I just feel like Leenock is slightly above Zenio 3-1 FXO
Uhh, mirror match galore and Gumiho with an opportunity to multidrop TLO to death.
I assume Oz will win the PvP, Zenio and Leenock both seem pretty strong in ZvZ, so I can't really call it. Sheth and Lucky are not as strong, but it should be close, too. Maybe I'd even favour Sheth. So if we are lucky, we'll get an ace match with uncertain outcome. If not, FXO will probably win. I don't really see Liquid winning it 3-1 or better, but I'll certainly watch to find out if I'm wrong.
Man, poor liquid. FXO really sent out their big ones for this. It's certainly possible for this to come to at least an ace match, and maybe even liquid winning. But HerO has to go against Oz and poor TLO has to taken the beast Gumiho. Will be interesting matches, but Liquids gonna have bring their top game!
Getting down to some really exciting matches none-the-less!
On March 15 2012 05:20 eYeball wrote: I don't think FXO will lose a single set, each of their favourite players got their best matchup it seems(?)
I really don't think ZvZ is Lucky's best matchup, and while it might be Leenock's (who really knows at this point...), Zenio probably has the best chance out of all of Liquid to take him out.
On March 15 2012 05:21 Orome wrote: Not having Ret hurts hugely in this. T_T
Ah well, apart from TLO vs Gumiho every series still seems possible for Liquid, we have a fighting chance.
Having to play without one of their aces has to have been a huge thing for liquid. If they win this it will be even more impressive. If TLO can pull another upset against a code S terran (he took games off of MKP and Polt recently) he'll not only be a hero but also probably give himself some beard points.
Why doesnt jinro get more chances in teamleauges and TL is favoring TLO over him? I was watching him couple of times in EWM and he looked pretty solid to me. Just wondering if anyone has any idea or inside info. Hope liquid takes this, but fxo will be hugely favored here.
Wow, this looks intense. All the matchups look like ones that could really go either way, although with Best of 3 format for each matchup, it's hard to pick TLO over GuMiHo. I mean, Dario can take a game off anyone, but GuMiHo is really solid and I'm not yet convinced TLO has fully recovered.
Slight advantage FXO, but the boys in blue have a really solid chance.
On March 15 2012 23:58 Kompicek wrote: Why doesnt jinro get more chances in teamleauges and TL is favoring TLO over him? I was watching him couple of times in EWM and he looked pretty solid to me. Just wondering if anyone has any idea or inside info. Hope liquid takes this, but fxo will be hugely favored here.
I will not pretend to know the inside workings of TL, nor the motivations behind determining a lineup. However, TLO's strength lies in his unpredictibility.
No one on Liquid really has a strong chance against Gumiho, so why not send out TLO on the off chance that he catches Gumiho off guard with something unorthodox?
Doh, TLpro hasnt tweeted about this event yet.. You can usually tell if EG is going to win a pre-played event by them tweeting about it or not before it starts, lol
Hope TL doesn't do the same - TLPro usually tweets about the event exactly 30 minutes before it happens.. Im such a nerd for noticing these things, lol - I guess I just _want_ to be spoiled
On March 15 2012 23:58 Kompicek wrote: Why doesnt jinro get more chances in teamleauges and TL is favoring TLO over him? I was watching him couple of times in EWM and he looked pretty solid to me. Just wondering if anyone has any idea or inside info. Hope liquid takes this, but fxo will be hugely favored here.
Most likely the same reason as Huk/Naniwa, cross-server lag.
with a bit of scouting luck and good response from TLO the first win in the series goes to TLO, I only fear the next one will not be as easy, but on the otherside I hope to see more of what TLO is capable of, so hoping for a longer game 2
wtf, how did Gumiho forget to lift the command center and let it die to like 12 lings O_O. Now he's lost and wow my mind just was blown with that kind of mistake.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah! great job TLO! a little bit lucky but we'll take that. glad i got a chance to see that.
to all you Incontrols out there. Every competiton starts from the perfect game. The less mistakes you make the better you are the closer you are to the perfect game. TLO made less mistakes, he was the better player, he won. Thank you very much!
sorry TLO but the only good thing in this series for me was your scouting overlords in game 1+2 and the fact that it is a win for TL and the first step towards the finals
On March 16 2012 10:42 VForce wrote: sorry TLO but the only good thing in this series for me was your scouting overlords in game 1+2 and the fact that it is a win for TL and the first step towards the finals
On March 16 2012 10:42 VForce wrote: sorry TLO but the only good thing in this series for me was your scouting overlords in game 1+2 and the fact that it is a win for TL and the first step towards the finals
On March 16 2012 10:42 VForce wrote: sorry TLO but the only good thing in this series for me was your scouting overlords in game 1+2 and the fact that it is a win for TL and the first step towards the finals
haters will be haters.
If they care enough to make excuses then they are in denial.
Did I just watch Liquid`TLO defeat FXO.GuMiho ? Hell, yeah!
TLO has recently beaten MarineKing (IPL) and took a game of Polt (Assembly), who then had to sweat tons to turn it around in very close games. Now Gumiho in NASL is defeated too. Yeah, TLO is kinda good.
On March 16 2012 10:42 VForce wrote: sorry TLO but the only good thing in this series for me was your scouting overlords in game 1+2 and the fact that it is a win for TL and the first step towards the finals
On March 16 2012 10:40 xajukx wrote: Gumiho playing at 3am or something, looks like he was too tired or bored to try...
Or jetlag right?
Did a Korean lose or make a mistake? Please choose one or more applicable excuses:
Game was played too early a.k.a. player was tired
Korean bonjwa didn't care about measly foreigner tournament
Jetlag
High cross-server latency
Progamer was ill
Wrist or hand injury
sure, you're right that people do immediately call out all those things, but were you watching the games? that was poor play by gumiho, not lifting a cc when lings are attacking it? that's unusually bad. people would be surprised to see that from any decent player.
On March 16 2012 10:54 oldahe wrote: can anyone give me a good reason why this stream has less around the same amount of viewers than WhiteRa laddering?
On March 16 2012 10:54 oldahe wrote: can anyone give me a good reason why this stream has less around the same amount of viewers than WhiteRa laddering?
On March 16 2012 10:54 oldahe wrote: can anyone give me a good reason why this stream has less around the same amount of viewers than WhiteRa laddering?
That felt a tiny bit uncomfortable at the end with the ling counter, glad Sheth still came out ahead. If sheth wins here we'll be in a pretty unbeatable position.
On March 16 2012 10:40 xajukx wrote: Gumiho playing at 3am or something, looks like he was too tired or bored to try...
Or jetlag right?
Did a Korean lose or make a mistake? Please choose one or more applicable excuses:
Game was played too early a.k.a. player was tired
Korean bonjwa didn't care about measly foreigner tournament
Jetlag
High cross-server latency
Progamer was ill
Wrist or hand injury
sure, you're right that people do immediately call out all those things, but were you watching the games? that was poor play by gumiho, not lifting a cc when lings are attacking it? that's unusually bad. people would be surprised to see that from any decent player.
And much of the time, many good players do make mistake, it's easier to make mistakes than to play perfectly. Look at Nestea's performance in MLG Winter vs. Demuslim, I remember him making some key errors that seemed uncharacteristic of high level play, and individual bias always make these people make excuses like the above. Sometimes a mistake is (surprise!) a mistake.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
FXO knew that they would have latency when they signed up for this tournament.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Oh quit your moaning and putting Korean players on a pedestal. Lucky and Gumiho made dumb errors throughout.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Mmm tears of whiners and excuse-makers taste so good!
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Mmm tears of whiners and excuse-makers taste so good!
How is it making excuses? It's absolutely true.
There's no way a player of TLO's caliber (and I love TLO A LOT, don't get me wrong) can legitimately beat Gumiho, a Ro4 Code S player (the guy who took DRG to 5 games) without latency or some other external factor.
There is latency though lol. People are fans of liquid yes, but why haven't people learned that online tournaments do not matter very much since there is that latency factor?
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
On March 16 2012 11:28 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Loving how Oz got a lucky dt to win in the IPL TAC, and Hero comes right back and smacks him in the face with one.
and that smack really hurts because its almost like you dont see it coming.
Why do people think that just because someone made a Code S round-of-whatever one time that they suddenly never, ever lose to anyone other than Code S players? You see this in all sports everywhere.. players have ups and downs, hot streaks and cold streaks. This is why the talent of a player is so hard to quantify: players will win and lose games they should or shouldn't have. For example, what about ST_Bomber? He's in Code B. Are you telling me he's awful? Or that he doesn't deserve to be in Code B? How good is he really? If he's the super-terran he's made out to be then why isn't it "pathetic" that he lost to those "no-talent" kids in Code A? What about oGsInca? He made a Code S final. How good is he? Would you be mocking TLO if he'd beat Inca?
These stupid latency arguments get us nowhere. TLO might have beaten GuMiHo anyway, latency or no. Haypro beat NesTea at the last MLG.. anyone can win on any day. Stop trying to definitively quantify one player as better than another, all it does is make us look petty and dumb.
Lol if you blame gumiho and lucky's terrible decision making these games on latency. Sure, maybe they are tired, sure, maybe they aren't giving it 100%, but don't pretend that it was latency that caused them to make horrible decisions.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Mmm tears of whiners and excuse-makers taste so good!
How is it making excuses? It's absolutely true.
There's no way a player of TLO's caliber (and I love TLO A LOT, don't get me wrong) can legitimately beat Gumiho, a Ro4 Code S player (the guy who took DRG to 5 games) without latency or some other external factor.
yeah... cause watching that game i definitely felt that gumiho pressed l on that cc... but then it lagged 15 seconds so tlo managed to snipe it.
i'm not saying that Gumiho was playing at the top of his game, but that's not a failure caused by lag.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
You mean Liquid who in this clanwar has 2 code S players. It is just so funny seeing all the excuses.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Mmm tears of whiners and excuse-makers taste so good!
How is it making excuses? It's absolutely true.
There's no way a player of TLO's caliber (and I love TLO A LOT, don't get me wrong) can legitimately beat Gumiho, a Ro4 Code S player (the guy who took DRG to 5 games) without latency or some other external factor.
yeah... cause watching that game i definitely felt that gumiho pressed l on that cc... but then it lagged 15 seconds so tlo managed to snipe it.
i'm not saying that Gumiho was playing at the top of his game, but that's not a failure caused by lag.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
On March 16 2012 11:18 ELA wrote:
On March 16 2012 11:15 GreyKnight wrote: lucky ate the bait...
Don't you realize that was lag? Oh wait, not lag, I meant the timezone difference?
Game was played too early a.k.a. player was tired
Korean bonjwa didn't care about measly foreigner tournament
Jetlag
High cross-server latency
Progamer was ill
Wrist or hand injury
Sorry, try again.
If HerO beats Oz and people blame lag, I'm going to *headdesk* so hard.
I thought the quoted list made it pretty obvious that the statement was sarcasm ;-)
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Mmm tears of whiners and excuse-makers taste so good!
How is it making excuses? It's absolutely true.
There's no way a player of TLO's caliber (and I love TLO A LOT, don't get me wrong) can legitimately beat Gumiho, a Ro4 Code S player (the guy who took DRG to 5 games) without latency or some other external factor.
yeah... cause watching that game i definitely felt that gumiho pressed l on that cc... but then it lagged 15 seconds so tlo managed to snipe it.
i'm not saying that Gumiho was playing at the top of his game, but that's not a failure caused by lag.
TLO confirmed for Code S player due to fanboyism.
Maybe they should kick out Gumiho out of Code S for losing to someone as bad as TLO.
On March 16 2012 11:08 LikeAG6 wrote: Year of the Cheese!
On March 16 2012 11:25 LikeAG6 wrote: How is it making excuses? It's absolutely true.
There's no way a player of TLO's caliber (and I love TLO A LOT, don't get me wrong) can legitimately beat Gumiho, a Ro4 Code S player (the guy who took DRG to 5 games) without latency or some other external factor.
On March 16 2012 11:28 LikeAG6 wrote: HerO proving why he's a Code S player with another cheesy win!
On March 16 2012 11:32 LikeAG6 wrote: TLO confirmed for Code S player due to fanboyism.
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Mmm tears of whiners and excuse-makers taste so good!
How is it making excuses? It's absolutely true.
There's no way a player of TLO's caliber (and I love TLO A LOT, don't get me wrong) can legitimately beat Gumiho, a Ro4 Code S player (the guy who took DRG to 5 games) without latency or some other external factor.
yeah... cause watching that game i definitely felt that gumiho pressed l on that cc... but then it lagged 15 seconds so tlo managed to snipe it.
i'm not saying that Gumiho was playing at the top of his game, but that's not a failure caused by lag.
TLO confirmed for Code S player due to fanboyism.
Maybe they should kick out Gumiho out of Code S for losing to someone as bad as TLO.
Also, lag or not, TLO did not make huge mistakes. GuMiho did. TLO played better, plain and simple. Did GuMi play at the top of his game? Ofc not. But he did not lose because of lag.
On March 16 2012 10:42 VForce wrote: sorry TLO but the only good thing in this series for me was your scouting overlords in game 1+2 and the fact that it is a win for TL and the first step towards the finals
haters will be haters.
Care to elaborate next time instead of using a stupid meme? But maybe I was not specific enough I was not "hating" on TLO but rather on the quite lacluster quality of the whole series. I would have been much happier if TLO beat gumiho in at least one standard game. Anyway I am happy for TL as i already mentioned
On March 16 2012 11:25 LikeAG6 wrote: How is it making excuses? It's absolutely true.
There's no way a player of TLO's caliber (and I love TLO A LOT, don't get me wrong) can legitimately beat Gumiho, a Ro4 Code S player (the guy who took DRG to 5 games) without latency or some other external factor.
So good to see liquid close it out. They are looking so ludicrously strong in 2012, was getting quite sad seeing them show such dominance and fall just short several times. GG fxo!
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
No, he's not stupid enough to make the fallacious claim that one player, such as Gumiho is categorically "better" than another and therefore should've won even though he lost. He's saying TLO played better and thus, won. That is fact, and that is undeniable. Claims like lag are both unfalsifiable and fallacious, inherently skewed by bias. Claims that Nestea intentionally threw his games against MVP at blizzcon prove this, as now it's generally understood that Nestea has atrocious late-late ZvT
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
Have some class. Rather than whining and complaining that TLO didn't deserve his win or isn't the better player, you could just say "congrats, TLO played better today". Unfortunately your ego and hate for TL won't let you do that.
All you're doing is making everyone laugh at you as if your a sore loser . . . . lol =)
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
Tonight, TLO was the better player. Ergo, he won.
Eh, didnt watch first games so idk what happened.
Doesn't matter. Better is comparative, and competition in gaming is zero-sum. Even if you believe that TLO's win was completely due to Gumiho throwing the game away, Gumiho's throwing away the game when TLO did not throw the game away means that TLO played better in that series.
Very impressive match from liquid. Props to TLO for taking the first set. I thought Sheth had a decent chance in the second match (his zvz has looked impressive in the other teamleagues), but he still played impressively. Hero just astounded like always. Congratulations!
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
and two code S players for liquid.. making it 3-2 before you even take the fact that sheth is playing AMAZING atm.
if you predict based on GSL rank then sheth isn't even code B but he outplayed lucky tonight. TLO played well against gumiho playing badly...
you can't say that the predictions were right, because they were WRONG. Gumiho is a great player, but a prediction isn't 'who is a better player' it's 'who is going to win' (and many people predict who will win based on who is a better player, but sometimes those predictions are wrong)
plus... it's hard to liquibet against TL right now in a team match.
EDIT lol.. nvm you have plenty of people replying to you right now!
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
Have some class. Rather than whining and complaining that TLO didn't deserve his win or isn't the better player, you could just say "congrats, TLO played better today". Unfortunately your ego and hate for TL won't let you do that.
All you're doing is making everyone laugh at you as if your a sore loser . . . . lol =)
Loool, I'm not even a big fan of FXO, but they're not doing very well in this team league for some reason or another. People just like seeing foreigners win, but i wouldn't put too much weight into this tournament.
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
No, he's not stupid enough to make the fallacious claim that one player, such as Gumiho is categorically "better" than another and therefore should've won even though he lost. He's saying TLO played better and thus, won. That is fact, and that is undeniable. Claims like lag are both unfalsifiable and fallacious, inherently skewed by bias. Claims that Nestea intentionally threw his games against MVP at blizzcon prove this, as now it's generally understood that Nestea has atrocious late-late ZvT
Nobody claims lag. Worse player win vs better players all the time.
Its just stupid to say someone is better because he wins a Bo3 over someone else. (he was better on that day yes) If you compare the record of 2 players where one is better, its about 60-40 or 70-30, so on a good day or with some luck the worse can win a Bo3.
I don't get why people are surprised when a foreigner beats a Code S Korean. This isn't Broodwar. The line between Koreans and foreigners, while it still exists, has begun to blur. The foreigners are practicing harder than ever before. The game ITSELF narrows the skill gap simply because it's harder to use your mechanics to make a come back (as opposed to using positioning and strategy, which the game has). Please, give the foreigners credit. If they gave this much effort in BW I have no doubt they'd also be able to compete (albeit, not that well) against BW pros.
That said, TL fighting! The most beastly Zerg lineup for a foreign team (sorry EG, Millenium).
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
Than maybe you should look at more than numbers. The only prediction that was reasonably probable was that Gumiho will beat TLO, but Sheth vs Lucky was far from clear and the same goes for Hero vs Oz.
On March 16 2012 11:55 Shardz wrote: Wow I can't believe Oz lost a set of PvP, how did the games look like?
Game one on Antiga Shipyard was a decisive build order win for HerO, he went 11 Gate > Council > Shrine against 12 Gate into two Gates > Council, held off a Stalker poke in the middle, Oz expanded just before DT Shrine completed and had no detection and subsequently gg'ed after the three DTs HerO warped in started attacking workers in main and natural.
Second game on Daybreak was a bit longer. They had similar build orders until HerO put down Council while Oz went Robo. Oz expanded 30 seconds or so before HerO and before an Observer could scout HerO's base. With both on two base, Oz had a ten or so worker lead but HerO had a slight army advantage which he solidified by sniping two Stalkers as his Blink had just completed and Oz did not know this. He then put up a proxy pylon in Oz' third, and with Blink Stalkers, a few Sentries and warped in Zealots pretty much crushed Oz' army of Stalkers, Immortals, Zealots and Sentries at Oz' natural. Oz tried to fight at his natural, but could never get a good concave or get his Immortals to focus Stalkers, HerO being able to use the terrain to his advantage and tank most of the damage with his Zealots while maintaining a superior concave. In the end, pulling probes was not enough for Oz to hold and HerO rolled over him.
The second game was quite interesting. It was not a clear build order win, but it definitely taught me a few things about Blink Stalkers vs Immortals off two base. Of course, the two Stalkers snipes that occured just after blink finished for HerO helped, but by the looks of the final battle it would have been pretty decisive anyway.
Wow great win by Liquid but soon people should stop being surprised by their good results. They were the last standing foreigner team in IPL TAC2 and now are in the finals of NASTL2. Liquid is the #1 foreign team now.
On March 16 2012 11:55 Shardz wrote: Wow I can't believe Oz lost a set of PvP, how did the games look like?
HerO beat him 2-1 at MLG too... I don't know why people thought Oz was favored in the first place.
Probably because FXO in the GSTL has on several occasions used Oz as a vP sniper. And the fact that many people who should know quite a lot about the issue rate Oz as the best PvP in the world. Not to mention that he just beat HerO in the ace match of the IPL TAC semis.
I would still favor Oz over HerO on average head to head. Just makes it sweeter to see HerO triumph of course.
On March 16 2012 11:55 Shardz wrote: Wow I can't believe Oz lost a set of PvP, how did the games look like?
HerO beat him 2-1 at MLG too... I don't know why people thought Oz was favored in the first place.
If you go by winrates, Oz has the best PvP in the world (79%). He's beaten Inca if that gives you a good idea and he has always been considered a PvP sniper. Taking aside PvP wierdness/randomness, I would consider Oz to be the better player than Hero if only because of constistency. But Hero's kicking ass right now. Seriously. Gonna be interesting come code S time.
On March 16 2012 12:25 McFeser wrote: I don't .. . . believe this. Those were really good players that Liquid defeated.
Implying that Liquid's players aren't good? Have you been watching the other team Leagues etc? Liquid barely got knocked out of IPL (Oz DT rushed Hero) and could very well have made it to the finals there, too. Barely losing to Prime in the ace match, and barely losing to FXO in an ace match. They were knocked out of IPL with a record of 23W - 15L. This isn't exactly news IMO.
If you're talking strictly based on Code S, FXO had 3 players, Liquid has 2 in Code S. Not that big of a difference.
On March 16 2012 12:25 McFeser wrote: I don't .. . . believe this. Those were really good players that Liquid defeated.
Implying that Liquid's players aren't good? Have you been watching the other team Leagues etc? Liquid barely got knocked out of IPL (Oz DT rushed Hero) and could very well have made it to the finals there, too. Barely losing to Prime in the ace match, and barely losing to FXO in an ace match. This isn't exactly news IMO.
If you're talking strictly based on Code S, FXO had 3 players, Liquid has 2 in Code S. Not that big of a difference.
I'm still really surprised . I know Liquid is good but I'm not used to them owning face yet, especially against one of the best Korean teams, fielding some of their best players who (with the exception of Lucky) are playing their best matchups. The only win I expected for Liquid was Zenio v Leenock - other than that I couldn't see TLO beating Gumi or Hero beating Oz - so . . .. I'm sorry for doubting you liquid!
Edit: So Liquid is either facing Empire or Mouz. Liquid defeated both teams 3-2 but that was before Liquid had two Code S players. Plus, both Empire and Mouz don't seem as strong as they were a month ago, so I think Liquid is going to be heavily favored in the finals.
On March 16 2012 12:25 McFeser wrote: I don't .. . . believe this. Those were really good players that Liquid defeated.
Implying that Liquid's players aren't good? Have you been watching the other team Leagues etc? Liquid barely got knocked out of IPL (Oz DT rushed Hero) and could very well have made it to the finals there, too. Barely losing to Prime in the ace match, and barely losing to FXO in an ace match. This isn't exactly news IMO.
If you're talking strictly based on Code S, FXO had 3 players, Liquid has 2 in Code S. Not that big of a difference.
I'm still really surprised . I know Liquid is good but I'm not used to them owning face yet, especially against one of the best Korean teams, fielding some of their best players who (with the exception of Lucky) are playing their best matchups. The only win I expected for Liquid was Zenio v Leenock - other than that I couldn't see TLO beating Gumi or Hero beating Oz - so . . .. I'm sorry for doubting you liquid!
It's understandable considering TLO has really become a completely different player since he changed back to Zerg (again) and some people don't follow him that closely. Let's just say that if TLO was unpredictable as Terran, he seems even more unpredictable as Zerg now. Combine that with a very safe 4 queen early game style and he's beaten players like MKP, Creator, Polt and now Gumiho, and more.
Add 2 Code S Koreans into the mix, plus Sheth and Ret (who are at least Code A worthy right now), it's a very deep roster. Even though Jinro, Haypro and Nony aren't playing at their best, TL still has very good players to fall back on until the former three get back into full form.
Nice win for Liquid! Definitely didn't expect a 3-0 sweep and I don't think anyone else could have saw this coming! Great start to the year for Liquid and in general, nice to see that TLO and HayprO are beginning to show results again!
On March 16 2012 11:39 Full.tilt wrote: Yay! Grats Liquid. Now it's time to go back to the first couple of pages and lol at the predictions :D
honestly the predictions should've been true. Gumiho is a better player, so is lucky. Oz and hero are pretty equal skill wise.
People like you make me laugh :D "The better player loss" no...the better player who was playing better won
Are you actually trying to argue that TLO is better than gumiho? I'm saying that the predictions were more than justified seeing as you had three code S/A players playing for fxo
No, he's not stupid enough to make the fallacious claim that one player, such as Gumiho is categorically "better" than another and therefore should've won even though he lost. He's saying TLO played better and thus, won. That is fact, and that is undeniable. Claims like lag are both unfalsifiable and fallacious, inherently skewed by bias. Claims that Nestea intentionally threw his games against MVP at blizzcon prove this, as now it's generally understood that Nestea has atrocious late-late ZvT
Nobody claims lag. Worse player win vs better players all the time.
Its just stupid to say someone is better because he wins a Bo3 over someone else. (he was better on that day yes) If you compare the record of 2 players where one is better, its about 60-40 or 70-30, so on a good day or with some luck the worse can win a Bo3.
Nobody claims lag? You haven't been reading this thread:
On March 16 2012 11:20 FrOsTyy wrote: It is so sad to watch Liquid even stand a chance vs these Code A and S players because of latency. We need iccup back so bad.
Plus, I wasn't referring just to lag, I explicitly referred to excuses like lag [see the plenty of other posts about timezone].
On March 16 2012 11:52 00Visor wrote:Its just stupid to say someone is better because he wins a Bo3 over someone else. (he was better on that day yes) If you compare the record of 2 players where one is better, its about 60-40 or 70-30, so on a good day or with some luck the worse can win a Bo3.
I think you're just misreading posts, because that's exactly what the person you're responding to said (that TLO played better that day). Still, TLO didn't have a prior record vs Gumiho, and even if he did, you're never going to have enough head-to-head games to supply a sufficient sample size to actually judge players' relative parity. TLO's recent successes are definite signs that he's getting pretty good, so it's stupid of people to say "TLO's the worse player" off the bat. Unproven? Sure, but there are so many factors regarding "good or bad" such as physical health, proficiency in other matchups, etc. that make statements like that so silly.
Just for the record when people are talking about lag. It is not definite that KR to NA is worse than EU to NA. In many situations EU to NA has been worse, but it's been the other way around as well. An example is that when Jinro plays on NA from the oGs house, he often has no to very little lag. When TLO plays on NA, he usually pings more than 200 on NA as well. It's not like it's koreans with lag against players without lag.
Also for those of you who actually saw the game would know that this wasn't a latency loss at all for GuMiho. It was not a moment where he could've sieged up in time if he had a little less ping or similar. Yes, he did all-in and that could have been his choice because he was playing on North America, but both many Koreans and fans don't really understand that they are not the only ones lagging.
..And I'm not saying TLO is better than GuMiho because GuMiho is one of the best Terrans out there, but it's just plain wrong and weak to say TLO won because of lag/latency or other issues. And if you're interested, this game was played at 2pm CET / 10pm KST a week and a half ago which is by no means late for the Korean player.
Awesome tournament! But I really have to say something that I really hate. This incorporation of best of 3-5-x for every game of a match is absolutely wrong in my opinion. A team league is about the teams as a whole, not the players, so the match is a best of 5 to begin with. To me that means that Proleague format or winnersleague (although I still think WL focuses too much on star players) are the formats to go with. This seems a bit like a watered-down version.
On March 16 2012 21:50 Bumblebee wrote: Just for the record when people are talking about lag. It is not definite that KR to NA is worse than EU to NA. In many situations EU to NA has been worse, but it's been the other way around as well. An example is that when Jinro plays on NA from the oGs house, he often has no to very little lag. When TLO plays on NA, he usually pings more than 200 on NA as well. It's not like it's koreans with lag against players without lag.
Also for those of you who actually saw the game would know that this wasn't a latency loss at all for GuMiho. It was not a moment where he could've sieged up in time if he had a little less ping or similar. Yes, he did all-in and that could have been his choice because he was playing on North America, but both many Koreans and fans don't really understand that they are not the only ones lagging.
..And I'm not saying TLO is better than GuMiho because GuMiho is one of the best Terrans out there, but it's just plain wrong and weak to say TLO won because of lag/latency or other issues. And if you're interested, this game was played at 2pm CET / 10pm KST a week and a half ago which is by no means late for the Korean player.
If only Liquid were good in individual leagues as they are in team leagues. Its just hard to imagine, TLO, Sheth, Ret, Zenio actually winning a huge tournament.
On March 16 2012 21:50 Bumblebee wrote: Just for the record when people are talking about lag. It is not definite that KR to NA is worse than EU to NA. In many situations EU to NA has been worse, but it's been the other way around as well. An example is that when Jinro plays on NA from the oGs house, he often has no to very little lag. When TLO plays on NA, he usually pings more than 200 on NA as well. It's not like it's koreans with lag against players without lag.
Also for those of you who actually saw the game would know that this wasn't a latency loss at all for GuMiho. It was not a moment where he could've sieged up in time if he had a little less ping or similar. Yes, he did all-in and that could have been his choice because he was playing on North America, but both many Koreans and fans don't really understand that they are not the only ones lagging.
..And I'm not saying TLO is better than GuMiho because GuMiho is one of the best Terrans out there, but it's just plain wrong and weak to say TLO won because of lag/latency or other issues. And if you're interested, this game was played at 2pm CET / 10pm KST a week and a half ago which is by no means late for the Korean player.
On March 17 2012 03:18 Micket wrote: If only Liquid were good in individual leagues as they are in team leagues. Its just hard to imagine, TLO, Sheth, Ret, Zenio actually winning a huge tournament.
few foreigners will be winning any major tournaments without some massive luck and seeding advantages nowadays....
Just watched the entire broadcast again, just for HerO vs. Oz game 2 - That was some pretty awesome play by HerO, really really sexy bstalker play against Oz's robo expand
Very entertaining broadcast in general, nice to see iNcontroL back casting, he really adds alot to the matches - Props.
On March 17 2012 03:18 Micket wrote: If only Liquid were good in individual leagues as they are in team leagues. Its just hard to imagine, TLO, Sheth, Ret, Zenio actually winning a huge tournament.
few foreigners will be winning any major tournaments without some massive luck and seeding advantages nowadays....
Good thing ret has won plenty of tournaments already.
On March 16 2012 21:50 Bumblebee wrote: ..And I'm not saying TLO is better than GuMiho because GuMiho is one of the best Terrans out there, but it's just plain wrong and weak to say TLO won because of lag/latency or other issues. And if you're interested, this game was played at 2pm CET / 10pm KST a week and a half ago which is by no means late for the Korean player.
Unless he had a 50 second lag spike and ended up not lifting his CC because of that there's really no need to even argue about it. GG Liquid.
On March 17 2012 08:10 Orome wrote: Does anyone know how long it usually takes NASL to upload the vods? Had to miss the games unfortunately and really want to watch them now.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wGRfb.jpg)
North American Star Team League![[image loading]](http://www.nasl.tv/Content/Uploads/headers/nasl_header_02_broadcast.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.nasl.tv/Content/Uploads/headers/nasl_header_02_format.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.nasl.tv/Content/Uploads/headers/nasl_header_02_games.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8451/teamliquidicon.png)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1593.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2106.jpg)
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TLO < TPW Artifice > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/flags/kr.png)
GuMiho![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1301.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/961.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/flags/us.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/222.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/629.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1903.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1971.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/noimage.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.nasl.tv/Content/Uploads/headers/nasl_header_02_predictions.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.nasl.tv/Content/Uploads/headers/nasl_header_02_results.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B80kr.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UuI4X.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5jA39.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bJ6Xp.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AxeZR.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/anSnC.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.cmg.org/images/facebook-icon.png){kind=icon}
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![[image loading]](http://www.journeyrecoverycenters.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/YouTubeIcon40x40.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qNsDr.gif)
(tears of joy)
