I am confused though why Terran seems to be the weakest rate sometimes when the tournament is not Korean.
I think one of the core reasons is the better mechanics are amplified for terrans. Of course, having better mechanics helps each race, but I think at the top levels, it helps terrain more. The core units for terrans vs Z and Protoss is the infantry and tank (although you can go mech vs zerg as well). And with infantry, having good micro during engagements is so important compare to other units. The only other 'core' units that requires a lot of micro is probably the stalker. Multidrop is also another tactic which requires more APM.
If you look at korean terrans vs foreign terrans, their basic strategy are similar. But Korean terrans just seem to get more out of their units. Even if they lose the engagement, they seem to be able to take out more units. And if you can be slightly more efficient each engagement, you just keep building up you lead. That is why I think TvP is harder for some of the top terrans right now (MVP, MMA, etc). A lot of the games just comes down to 1 big engagement so the terrans can't really just chip away a little by little
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
I'm a major MMA fanboy, but with bias or not, everyone knows that MMA constantly topples the top players in the world (Leenock, MVP, Nestea, DRG) to get to GSL finals and win. There's a reason why he's called the LEgend Killer. Regardless of round of 32, MMA always meets and beats to pplayers
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
I'm a major MMA fanboy, but with bias or not, everyone knows that MMA constantly topples the top players in the world (Leenock, MVP, Nestea, DRG) to get to GSL finals and win. There's a reason why he's called the LEgend Killer. Regardless of round of 32, MMA always meets and beats to pplayers
MMA is definitely one of the top players atm. His TvZ is probably the best in the world, and he just does not lose to MVP in TvT. My main issue with him is that while he seems to have MVP's number, his TvT is otherwise not so marvellous. Code S class, but not Top 2 or 3. His recent wins include Gumiho (<50% TvT) and MVP, other than that no TvTs since Happy in October.
Also, like quite a few top Terrans his TvP against really good Protoss players is untested. He has played MC a grand total of once since March, and that was a) on the old Bel'Shir Beach (Terran favoured) and b) he went 2base Ghosts when EMP still had 44% greater radius.
MMA also lost to Oz in Code S 2-3, and Oz definitely looked like the better player in that series. With a <50% winrate against Protoss, MMA will probably suffer if more Protoss players spring up into Code S (which I fully expect given the rise of Parting, Oz, Brown et al).
On January 17 2012 04:18 IMPrime wrote: MMA has never been in a group of death, but you're kidding yourself if you think that, other than today's group, he's ever had an "easy" code S group.
Haters are going to hate. I agree with you, MMA gets his fair share of tough groups, twice with Nestea, last time with MC. But the presence of the anti-fans does show that people care about pro SC2, and that is a heartening sign.
MMA played very well today, I hope he does well this season.
On January 16 2012 23:43 Love and Justice wrote: Terrans are just too strong, they can go any style and kill zergs with it. They have so many opening attacka, it's so hard as a Zerg to scouts it and stop it hellion/maurader/marine,Banshee/hellion,marine/maurder,mass hellion, marine,tank etc etc etc. Not just that in late games like what happened to Lucky vs MVP with those snipes man so imba kills every late game Zerg unit, Blizzard should be Embarrassed(same with the mothership vortex) on taking so long to nerf it, I mean they did nerf the infestor and the stupid ultralisk splash damage after seeing how imba that was.
come-on you use MMA+Gumi vs Zenio+Yugioh ??? that not fair MMA is so good in TvZ same to Gumi(when he on fire) Zenio is weak in ZvT and Yugioh is maybe the weakest player in code-s
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
I'm a major MMA fanboy, but with bias or not, everyone knows that MMA constantly topples the top players in the world (Leenock, MVP, Nestea, DRG) to get to GSL finals and win. There's a reason why he's called the LEgend Killer. Regardless of round of 32, MMA always meets and beats to pplayers
MMA is definitely one of the top players atm. His TvZ is probably the best in the world, and he just does not lose to MVP in TvT. My main issue with him is that while he seems to have MVP's number, his TvT is otherwise not so marvellous. Code S class, but not Top 2 or 3. His recent wins include Gumiho (<50% TvT) and MVP, other than that no TvTs since Happy in October.
Also, like quite a few top Terrans his TvP against really good Protoss players is untested. He has played MC a grand total of once since March, and that was a) on the old Bel'Shir Beach (Terran favoured) and b) he went 2base Ghosts when EMP still had 44% greater radius.
MMA also lost to Oz in Code S 2-3, and Oz definitely looked like the better player in that series. With a <50% winrate against Protoss, MMA will probably suffer if more Protoss players spring up into Code S (which I fully expect given the rise of Parting, Oz, Brown et al).
I disagree with some of the points here. His TvT while stylistically doesn't always look the greatest has always brought him out with the wins. He generally very good at mixing timing attacks with super greedy play.
He basically TvT'd his way through Super Tournament (beating Lyn, Supernova, Ganzi, Ryung, MarineKing only losing to Polt) and GSL October (beating Keen, Nada, asd, Clide, Happy and MVP).
Just because it doesn't look like MVP (which is basically godly) doesn't mean it isn't great. There is a reason he is Number 1 in ELO in TvT.
His TvP hasn't really been tested but saying it isn't great because of that Oz series really isn't fair. He lost game 1 to double proxy gate in his base and lost the Calm Before the Storm game because that map is really imba for Protoss late game (which is why GSL took it out). Not saying he would have neccisarily beaten Oz but a couple of things didn't go right for him and probably cost him the series.
On January 17 2012 00:35 tree.hugger wrote: Ahhhh so close...! Toe to toe with the second and third best terran in the world, and nothing to show for it. T_T
The third best Terran in the world doesn't lose to Finale.
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
GSL November: Came out on top in his group of: MMA, MC, Ryung, Yugioh
GSL October: Came out 2nd in his group of Nestea, MMA, Nada, Keen
GSL August: Came out on top in his group of: MMA, Nestea, Happy, Kyrix
Yep, those are some easy groups >_> This season was his easiest group but his previous ones have always had a GSL champion in them, so not sure how you define difficult.
part of what pisses me off about gomTvT is that zergs like nestea and DRG should only be practicing ZvT at this point as that gives u the best chance of winning the finals
but then somehow all these ZvZ matches start popping up in the ro32 and ro16 thus eliminating zergs from moving forward.... gawd its so GHEYYYYYYYYYYYY
i mean cant it somehow just be fixed so the zergs will get ZvP instead of these lame ZvZ's ???? arghhhhh
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
GSL November: Came out on top in his group of: MMA, MC, Ryung, Yugioh
GSL October: Came out 2nd in his group of Nestea, MMA, Nada, Keen
GSL August: Came out on top in his group of: MMA, Nestea, Happy, Kyrix
Yep, those are some easy groups >_> This season was his easiest group but his previous ones have always had a GSL champion in them, so not sure how you define difficult.
Just ignore the haters lol, they won't accept the fact that MMA is one of the best players in the world and the GSL champion no matter what.
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
I'm a major MMA fanboy, but with bias or not, everyone knows that MMA constantly topples the top players in the world (Leenock, MVP, Nestea, DRG) to get to GSL finals and win. There's a reason why he's called the LEgend Killer. Regardless of round of 32, MMA always meets and beats to pplayers
MMA is definitely one of the top players atm. His TvZ is probably the best in the world, and he just does not lose to MVP in TvT. My main issue with him is that while he seems to have MVP's number, his TvT is otherwise not so marvellous. Code S class, but not Top 2 or 3. His recent wins include Gumiho (<50% TvT) and MVP, other than that no TvTs since Happy in October.
Also, like quite a few top Terrans his TvP against really good Protoss players is untested. He has played MC a grand total of once since March, and that was a) on the old Bel'Shir Beach (Terran favoured) and b) he went 2base Ghosts when EMP still had 44% greater radius.
MMA also lost to Oz in Code S 2-3, and Oz definitely looked like the better player in that series. With a <50% winrate against Protoss, MMA will probably suffer if more Protoss players spring up into Code S (which I fully expect given the rise of Parting, Oz, Brown et al).
You are crazy. MMA has top 3 TvT. The only time I wouldn't bet on MMA in TvT is when he's up against Polt. You have no idea what you're talking about man.
Yes Oz beat MMA but how can you say Oz looked like the better player just from a series that was close? In the protoss favored map, calm before the storm, MMA took out Oz's expansions and should've won the game but his army got split up when he rallied to the center of the map. He would've won in a proper engagement with reinforcements and superior economy. TvP late game is hard.
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
I'm a major MMA fanboy, but with bias or not, everyone knows that MMA constantly topples the top players in the world (Leenock, MVP, Nestea, DRG) to get to GSL finals and win. There's a reason why he's called the LEgend Killer. Regardless of round of 32, MMA always meets and beats to pplayers
On a side note, I see no reason for MMA to be known Legend Killer. That would be Jaedong...There are no legends in sc2 yet, so it's best we hold off on that.
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
I'm a major MMA fanboy, but with bias or not, everyone knows that MMA constantly topples the top players in the world (Leenock, MVP, Nestea, DRG) to get to GSL finals and win. There's a reason why he's called the LEgend Killer. Regardless of round of 32, MMA always meets and beats to pplayers
On a side note, I see no reason for MMA to be known Legend Killer. That would be Jaedong...There are no legends in sc2 yet, so it's best we hold off on that.
On January 16 2012 19:56 Pipeline wrote: Why do they keep talking about "this or that being outclassed"??? It is so annoying. Sadface to see MMA go through, my least favourite terran.
Same here. One of these days MMA will actually have a difficult code S group.
What about his group in August, vs Happy and Nestea?
Or Leenock, Huk, Nestea last season
He had plenty if difficult groups, he still advanced.
On January 16 2012 23:01 cutler wrote: From my point of view...as a Terran Player...i dont get why most Zerg Players are not trying to copy NesTea Style...he is steamrolling through Terran...well at least i think he is crushing Terran pretty hard.
I dont get why people blame GOM for the situation.
A player of his level should be at 70% in each matchup.
In the games vs Mvp he won by defending a marine/scv all in, and then doing a 2base all in himself. Nothing to learn from these games.
First off, he's 50-39 ZvT, which is 56.18%
Secondly, if you're going to mention statistics in order to try to create a "T imba, Z to weak" picture, at least mention the fact that 12 of those losses in ZvT are from MVP.
EPT
