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Let's have a nice clean LR thread folks! Beware that moderation will probably be stricter than usual, balance whine, player bashing and trolling will not be tolerated! |
On January 11 2012 10:34 bbm wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:20 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:18 CeriseCherries wrote:On January 11 2012 10:15 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:06 SidianTheBard wrote:On January 11 2012 09:57 nihlon wrote:
@SidianTheBard
Idra going 4-1 against nestea would be a huge upset, even considering nestea's current form. True, but we've seen before that Idra can keep up with nestea in macro games and probably his biggest downfall is if it's all 1 base play, but even then Idra is very well at that, especially with korean ladder being full of 1 base play. Tbh, I could see NesTea finishing last in the group, with Lucky beating him as well. NesTea is still one of my favorite zergs to watch and root for, but it feels like he's just slowly falling behind. I don't understand this thinking. Sure Idra 'kept up' but he lost, and yet a lot of people seem to view this 2-1 loss as a victory for Idra, which it wasn't. So why do you then have this leap from a 2-1 loss to a 4-1 win, especially as Idra was on homesoil at MLG and we're now on Nestea's territory. ok i really dont get the homesoil argument -.- I guess what he may be alluding to is the fact that IdrA, had he been more decisive and capitalized on his lead instead of giving it away (iirc to some fungals?) would have won. Now, him in a Kr practice environment, should do better The game Idra won was a close game too, Nestea could easilly have won that game and just 2-0'd him. There is a massive amount of evidence to suggest foreigners doing better in foreign tournaments and Koreans better in Korean tournaments. Home advantage exists in Sc2 for sure. People don't really appreciate the home advantage you get these days. Hell, just look at naniwa at providence vs at blizzard cup. Like two different people. It's not just about the location, it's an environment, a tournament setup, everything that is familiar is an advantage and is unknown is a disadvantage.
Naniwa is Swedish, the US isn't home turf WTF. its just an on day off day scenario. Blizzcup he had an off day
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Preparing for a heavy shitstorm when/if MVP doesn't advance.
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On January 11 2012 10:41 ArtThouAngry wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:34 bbm wrote:On January 11 2012 10:20 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:18 CeriseCherries wrote:On January 11 2012 10:15 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:06 SidianTheBard wrote:On January 11 2012 09:57 nihlon wrote:
@SidianTheBard
Idra going 4-1 against nestea would be a huge upset, even considering nestea's current form. True, but we've seen before that Idra can keep up with nestea in macro games and probably his biggest downfall is if it's all 1 base play, but even then Idra is very well at that, especially with korean ladder being full of 1 base play. Tbh, I could see NesTea finishing last in the group, with Lucky beating him as well. NesTea is still one of my favorite zergs to watch and root for, but it feels like he's just slowly falling behind. I don't understand this thinking. Sure Idra 'kept up' but he lost, and yet a lot of people seem to view this 2-1 loss as a victory for Idra, which it wasn't. So why do you then have this leap from a 2-1 loss to a 4-1 win, especially as Idra was on homesoil at MLG and we're now on Nestea's territory. ok i really dont get the homesoil argument -.- I guess what he may be alluding to is the fact that IdrA, had he been more decisive and capitalized on his lead instead of giving it away (iirc to some fungals?) would have won. Now, him in a Kr practice environment, should do better The game Idra won was a close game too, Nestea could easilly have won that game and just 2-0'd him. There is a massive amount of evidence to suggest foreigners doing better in foreign tournaments and Koreans better in Korean tournaments. Home advantage exists in Sc2 for sure. People don't really appreciate the home advantage you get these days. Hell, just look at naniwa at providence vs at blizzard cup. Like two different people. It's not just about the location, it's an environment, a tournament setup, everything that is familiar is an advantage and is unknown is a disadvantage. Naniwa is Swedish, the US isn't home turf WTF. its just an on day off day scenario. Blizzcup he had an off day
And the losses to Check and Lucky (x2)?
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lucky to advance. He still came second in IPL and with this many zergs he can win
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On January 11 2012 10:42 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:41 ArtThouAngry wrote:On January 11 2012 10:34 bbm wrote:On January 11 2012 10:20 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:18 CeriseCherries wrote:On January 11 2012 10:15 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:06 SidianTheBard wrote:On January 11 2012 09:57 nihlon wrote:
@SidianTheBard
Idra going 4-1 against nestea would be a huge upset, even considering nestea's current form. True, but we've seen before that Idra can keep up with nestea in macro games and probably his biggest downfall is if it's all 1 base play, but even then Idra is very well at that, especially with korean ladder being full of 1 base play. Tbh, I could see NesTea finishing last in the group, with Lucky beating him as well. NesTea is still one of my favorite zergs to watch and root for, but it feels like he's just slowly falling behind. I don't understand this thinking. Sure Idra 'kept up' but he lost, and yet a lot of people seem to view this 2-1 loss as a victory for Idra, which it wasn't. So why do you then have this leap from a 2-1 loss to a 4-1 win, especially as Idra was on homesoil at MLG and we're now on Nestea's territory. ok i really dont get the homesoil argument -.- I guess what he may be alluding to is the fact that IdrA, had he been more decisive and capitalized on his lead instead of giving it away (iirc to some fungals?) would have won. Now, him in a Kr practice environment, should do better The game Idra won was a close game too, Nestea could easilly have won that game and just 2-0'd him. There is a massive amount of evidence to suggest foreigners doing better in foreign tournaments and Koreans better in Korean tournaments. Home advantage exists in Sc2 for sure. People don't really appreciate the home advantage you get these days. Hell, just look at naniwa at providence vs at blizzard cup. Like two different people. It's not just about the location, it's an environment, a tournament setup, everything that is familiar is an advantage and is unknown is a disadvantage. Naniwa is Swedish, the US isn't home turf WTF. its just an on day off day scenario. Blizzcup he had an off day And the losses to Check and Lucky (x2)?
Combination of both Check and Lucky being Underrated, jet Lag, Foreigners in general being overhyped, and off days... yeah sounds about right.
If this whole Home turf thing has such a huge difference, then why do koreans still win practically every foreign tournament htey attend
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On January 11 2012 10:01 feanor1 wrote:
Can someone please upload a gif of the end of GSL Code S round of 32 introductions with Idra getting ready to crush?
Done (it's bad but it's my first try so be kind pls...)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3AzoG.gif)
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On January 11 2012 10:46 ArtThouAngry wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:42 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:41 ArtThouAngry wrote:On January 11 2012 10:34 bbm wrote:On January 11 2012 10:20 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:18 CeriseCherries wrote:On January 11 2012 10:15 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:06 SidianTheBard wrote:On January 11 2012 09:57 nihlon wrote:
@SidianTheBard
Idra going 4-1 against nestea would be a huge upset, even considering nestea's current form. True, but we've seen before that Idra can keep up with nestea in macro games and probably his biggest downfall is if it's all 1 base play, but even then Idra is very well at that, especially with korean ladder being full of 1 base play. Tbh, I could see NesTea finishing last in the group, with Lucky beating him as well. NesTea is still one of my favorite zergs to watch and root for, but it feels like he's just slowly falling behind. I don't understand this thinking. Sure Idra 'kept up' but he lost, and yet a lot of people seem to view this 2-1 loss as a victory for Idra, which it wasn't. So why do you then have this leap from a 2-1 loss to a 4-1 win, especially as Idra was on homesoil at MLG and we're now on Nestea's territory. ok i really dont get the homesoil argument -.- I guess what he may be alluding to is the fact that IdrA, had he been more decisive and capitalized on his lead instead of giving it away (iirc to some fungals?) would have won. Now, him in a Kr practice environment, should do better The game Idra won was a close game too, Nestea could easilly have won that game and just 2-0'd him. There is a massive amount of evidence to suggest foreigners doing better in foreign tournaments and Koreans better in Korean tournaments. Home advantage exists in Sc2 for sure. People don't really appreciate the home advantage you get these days. Hell, just look at naniwa at providence vs at blizzard cup. Like two different people. It's not just about the location, it's an environment, a tournament setup, everything that is familiar is an advantage and is unknown is a disadvantage. Naniwa is Swedish, the US isn't home turf WTF. its just an on day off day scenario. Blizzcup he had an off day And the losses to Check and Lucky (x2)? Combination of both Check and Lucky being Underrated, jet Lag, Foreigners in general being overhyped, and off days... yeah sounds about right. If this whole Home turf thing has such a huge difference, then why do koreans still win practically every foreign tournament htey attend
Becuase Koreans are really, really good but they don't slaughter foreigners outside of Korea quite like they do inside and we've never ever had a results like:
Thorzain > MC
Naniwa > Mvp
Huk > MC
Naniwa > Nestea
Haypro > Nestea
Idra > Bomber
and so on, inside Korea.
And inside Korea foreigners have a tendency to lose to really dodgy Koreans like Check, Yugioh, Sniper, Fruitdealer who are frankly no one's definition of a top player.
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The return of Grack. Will he triumph or lose two ZvZs in a row?
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yes, we actually have...
Jinro>MC
IdrA>Genius
IdrA>Clide
IdrA>NaDa
HuK>NaDa
DIMAGA>NesTea
Jinro>Polt
HuK>NesTea
You just get more upsets outside korea because more foreigner v korean games are played outside korea...
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Good luck Greg.
You are going to fucking need it. 2nd group of death commence.
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On January 11 2012 10:55 ArtThouAngry wrote:
yes, we actually have...
Jinro>MC
IdrA>Genius
IdrA>Clide
IdrA>NaDa
HuK>NaDa
DIMAGA>NesTea
Jinro>Polt
HuK>NesTea
You just get more upsets outside korea because more foreigner v korean games are played outside korea...
The bolded games weren't upsets (except Jinro > MC, and even then Jinro was a GSL semi finalist) and/or they were from over a year ago when Jinro and Idra were legitimately top players and we were still in the TSL_Rain and BitByBit era's.
So that leaves two games. One where Dimaga all in'd Nestea twice in ZvZ and one where Nestea derped hardcore and threw away a completely won game.
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On January 11 2012 10:57 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:55 ArtThouAngry wrote:
yes, we actually have...
Jinro>MC
IdrA>Genius
IdrA>Clide
IdrA>NaDa
HuK>NaDa
DIMAGA>NesTea
Jinro>Polt
HuK>NesTea
You just get more upsets outside korea because more foreigner v korean games are played outside korea...
The bolded games weren't upsets (except Jinro > MC, and even then Jinro was a GSL semi finalist) and they were from over a year ago when Jinro and Idra were legitimately top players and we were still in the TSL_Rain and BitByBit era's. So that leaves two games. One where Dimaga all in'd Nestea twice in ZvZ and one where Nestea derped hardcore and threw away a completely won game.
Than add in HuK> Puzzle
BTW
Thorzain MC was a while ago too... so was HuK MC.
NaNiwa MVP were so cheesy
so was haypro Nestea
and how the fuck was Jinro beating MC not an upset?
same with idra beating his trio of guys (Genius, Clide, NaDa)
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On January 11 2012 10:49 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:46 ArtThouAngry wrote:On January 11 2012 10:42 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:41 ArtThouAngry wrote:On January 11 2012 10:34 bbm wrote:On January 11 2012 10:20 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:18 CeriseCherries wrote:On January 11 2012 10:15 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:06 SidianTheBard wrote:On January 11 2012 09:57 nihlon wrote:
@SidianTheBard
Idra going 4-1 against nestea would be a huge upset, even considering nestea's current form. True, but we've seen before that Idra can keep up with nestea in macro games and probably his biggest downfall is if it's all 1 base play, but even then Idra is very well at that, especially with korean ladder being full of 1 base play. Tbh, I could see NesTea finishing last in the group, with Lucky beating him as well. NesTea is still one of my favorite zergs to watch and root for, but it feels like he's just slowly falling behind. I don't understand this thinking. Sure Idra 'kept up' but he lost, and yet a lot of people seem to view this 2-1 loss as a victory for Idra, which it wasn't. So why do you then have this leap from a 2-1 loss to a 4-1 win, especially as Idra was on homesoil at MLG and we're now on Nestea's territory. ok i really dont get the homesoil argument -.- I guess what he may be alluding to is the fact that IdrA, had he been more decisive and capitalized on his lead instead of giving it away (iirc to some fungals?) would have won. Now, him in a Kr practice environment, should do better The game Idra won was a close game too, Nestea could easilly have won that game and just 2-0'd him. There is a massive amount of evidence to suggest foreigners doing better in foreign tournaments and Koreans better in Korean tournaments. Home advantage exists in Sc2 for sure. People don't really appreciate the home advantage you get these days. Hell, just look at naniwa at providence vs at blizzard cup. Like two different people. It's not just about the location, it's an environment, a tournament setup, everything that is familiar is an advantage and is unknown is a disadvantage. Naniwa is Swedish, the US isn't home turf WTF. its just an on day off day scenario. Blizzcup he had an off day And the losses to Check and Lucky (x2)? Combination of both Check and Lucky being Underrated, jet Lag, Foreigners in general being overhyped, and off days... yeah sounds about right. If this whole Home turf thing has such a huge difference, then why do koreans still win practically every foreign tournament htey attend Becuase Koreans are really, really good but they don't slaughter foreigners outside of Korea quite like they do inside and we've never ever had a results like: Thorzain > MC Naniwa > Mvp Huk > MC Naniwa > Nestea Haypro > Nestea Idra > Bomber and so on, inside Korea. And inside Korea foreigners have a tendency to lose to really dodgy Koreans like Check, Yugioh, Sniper, Fruitdealer who are frankly no one's definition of a top player.
Fed up of stupid posts like this...
YugiOh is a Code S player.
Naniwa lost twice to Lucky who is now a Code S player and whose best match up is vP while Naniwa's worst is vZ
For all the trash you can give Fruitdealer he still won the first GSL and if you want to list all the winners of GSL's, GSL special events, MLG's, Dreamhacks, IPLs and NASLs they're all pretty solid players. Plus the only foreigner he's played in Korea was Jinro, who he lost to.
qxc all killed IM in the GSTL, NesTea was knocked out of Providence by HayprO, HerO fell out of HSC by losing to Nerchio, MKP was knocked out the WCG Finals 2-0 by Kas...
I think you're totally missing the point here, no-one is saying IdrA to win GSL, no one is saying foreigners will win everything this year, the argument that is being made is that this isn't brood war and foreigners do actually have a realistic chance of getting through the first rounds against koreans.
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Cheering for IdrA tonight, gogogo!
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On January 11 2012 11:06 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:49 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:46 ArtThouAngry wrote:On January 11 2012 10:42 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:41 ArtThouAngry wrote:On January 11 2012 10:34 bbm wrote:On January 11 2012 10:20 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:18 CeriseCherries wrote:On January 11 2012 10:15 Seraphone wrote:On January 11 2012 10:06 SidianTheBard wrote:
[quote]
True, but we've seen before that Idra can keep up with nestea in macro games and probably his biggest downfall is if it's all 1 base play, but even then Idra is very well at that, especially with korean ladder being full of 1 base play.
Tbh, I could see NesTea finishing last in the group, with Lucky beating him as well. NesTea is still one of my favorite zergs to watch and root for, but it feels like he's just slowly falling behind. I don't understand this thinking. Sure Idra 'kept up' but he lost, and yet a lot of people seem to view this 2-1 loss as a victory for Idra, which it wasn't. So why do you then have this leap from a 2-1 loss to a 4-1 win, especially as Idra was on homesoil at MLG and we're now on Nestea's territory. ok i really dont get the homesoil argument -.- I guess what he may be alluding to is the fact that IdrA, had he been more decisive and capitalized on his lead instead of giving it away (iirc to some fungals?) would have won. Now, him in a Kr practice environment, should do better The game Idra won was a close game too, Nestea could easilly have won that game and just 2-0'd him. There is a massive amount of evidence to suggest foreigners doing better in foreign tournaments and Koreans better in Korean tournaments. Home advantage exists in Sc2 for sure. People don't really appreciate the home advantage you get these days. Hell, just look at naniwa at providence vs at blizzard cup. Like two different people. It's not just about the location, it's an environment, a tournament setup, everything that is familiar is an advantage and is unknown is a disadvantage. Naniwa is Swedish, the US isn't home turf WTF. its just an on day off day scenario. Blizzcup he had an off day And the losses to Check and Lucky (x2)? Combination of both Check and Lucky being Underrated, jet Lag, Foreigners in general being overhyped, and off days... yeah sounds about right. If this whole Home turf thing has such a huge difference, then why do koreans still win practically every foreign tournament htey attend Becuase Koreans are really, really good but they don't slaughter foreigners outside of Korea quite like they do inside and we've never ever had a results like: Thorzain > MC Naniwa > Mvp Huk > MC Naniwa > Nestea Haypro > Nestea Idra > Bomber and so on, inside Korea. And inside Korea foreigners have a tendency to lose to really dodgy Koreans like Check, Yugioh, Sniper, Fruitdealer who are frankly no one's definition of a top player. Fed up of stupid posts like this... YugiOh is a Code S player. Naniwa lost twice to Lucky who is now a Code S player and whose best match up is vP while Naniwa's worst is vZ For all the trash you can give Fruitdealer he still won the first GSL and if you want to list all the winners of GSL's, GSL special events, MLG's, Dreamhacks, IPLs and NASLs they're all pretty solid players. Plus the only foreigner he's played in Korea was Jinro, who he lost to. qxc all killed IM in the GSTL, NesTea was knocked out of Providence by HayprO, HerO fell out of HSC by losing to Nerchio, MKP was knocked out the WCG Finals 2-0 by Kas... I think you're totally missing the point here, no-one is saying IdrA to win GSL, no one is saying foreigners will win everything this year, the argument that is being made is that this isn't brood war and foreigners do actually have a realistic chance of getting through the first rounds against koreans.
The main thing we were talking about was home field advantage.... awkward.
I do agree with you that we underrate a lot of koreans though
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On January 11 2012 10:42 T0fuuu wrote:
lucky to advance. He still came second in IPL and with this many zergs he can win
Lucky is not that good at ZvZ, especially with against a ZvZ player like Nestea in his group. His record in Korea is subpar, and he was brutally 4-0 by Stephano. If anything, that would be a huge disadvantage to him.
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On January 11 2012 10:48 Serinox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:01 feanor1 wrote:
Can someone please upload a gif of the end of GSL Code S round of 32 introductions with Idra getting ready to crush? Done (it's bad but it's my first try so be kind pls...)
Idra has some mad traps.
Really hope he'll advance!
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Gah, I have to stay off reddit tommorow till I get home from work to watch VoDs 
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EPT
