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On December 23 2011 18:49 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. That's the silliest thing I've seen in this thread so far. July played a pretty safe/standard muta opening and he was blind countering? He actually scouted with an overseer, unlike Hero (who went prism before obs) O_o
I'm not saying that I agree with Alejandrisha, but July's opening did not seem safe to me at all, he had 0 spines & could've died to like a 6g push I think.
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I dont't get it. Hero sees the overseer, but doesn't prepare for mutas...How can he be so good outside the GSL, but look like this in the GSL. It's like jekyll and hide. I wouldnt be surprised if he loses all his matches now like he did in the blizzard cup.
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when you watch these games you feel like none of them should be in Code S...
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On December 23 2011 18:49 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. No he didn't. Hero failed to read the situation when he saw the lair tech.
when has no spine + relatively quick 3rd + standard lair timing (after 3rd hatch) ever meant 10 min mutas..
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On December 23 2011 18:49 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. That's the silliest thing I've seen in this thread so far. July played a pretty safe/standard muta opening and he was blind countering? He actually scouted with an overseer, unlike Hero (who went prism before obs) O_o
I see this all the time. When a player choose a risky or simply bad strategy and lose, people call it like the other player blind counter him. I don't think they really understand what it means.
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On December 23 2011 18:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:46 HowardRoark wrote:
I am happy Hero goes for Templars, because it makes PvZ games interesting to watch compared to balls of Colossus, but why do it when Colossus balls seem to much better (albeit so much more boring)? Do he skip Colossus balls for entertainment or that the skill cap for Templars are higher than Colossus balls? He skipped Colossi as soon as his entire army died to mutas because you can't defend mutas on Dual Sight when going fast colossi off 2 base.
Ok. Protoss is so much more fun to watch whenever they skip Colossus completely, feels like a different race, feels like Protoss again with storms, archons and good action all over the place.
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On December 23 2011 18:46 HowardRoark wrote:
I am happy Hero goes for Templars, because it makes PvZ games interesting to watch compared to balls of Colossus, but why do it when Colossus balls seem to much better (albeit so much more boring)? Do he skip Colossus balls for entertainment or that the skill cap for Templars are higher than Colossus balls?
What are u talking about?? templar is the counter to mutaling.... how do u counter mutaling with colossus?? =.=
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On December 23 2011 18:49 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:48 Azzur wrote:On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. It wasn't so much of a blind counter - it was coin flipping by hero july flipped the biggest coin of all. the gates he scouted could have easily gone into a quick gw timing that would have smashed what he was doing (no spines, either) and it's not like he saw the pylon to know some kind of pressure was going to head to the third
...Hero hit at the fastest timing he could (considering when those gates popped) and you saw what happened. Even if Hero had warped in all stalkers, there were enough mutas there. What are you talking about O_o
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On December 23 2011 18:47 Smile[PaiN] wrote:
Wolf really has no idea how to play high level zerg, using the banneling on stalkers was a good choice for the postion july was in. Him screaming WHYY!!!! was really frusterating to listen to.
I know, glad I'm not the only person who knew july was going to roll the banes into the stalkers before he did it.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Gotta get to work!
TAL'DARIM ALTAR
JYP is 2-3 on this map in the GSL, while Luvsic is 1-1
Luvsic has only played Protoss on this map, going 1-1 overall (beating HongUn, but losing to Creator.) Too bad JYP is unbeaten on this map vZ, taking out DRG, Life, Sleep and WCG runner up Xigua! These guys have yet to play each other
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On December 23 2011 18:50 Fyzar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:49 Jehct wrote:On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. That's the silliest thing I've seen in this thread so far. July played a pretty safe/standard muta opening and he was blind countering? He actually scouted with an overseer, unlike Hero (who went prism before obs) O_o I'm not saying that I agree with Alejandrisha, but July's opening did not seem safe to me at all, he had 0 spines & could've died to like a 6g push I think.
That's what the overseer was for.
To scout what's coming, he saw 4 gate and a robo, so there's absolutely no need to add additional defense.
If he saw more gates he would have spammed spines for sure.
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On December 23 2011 18:50 HowardRoark wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On December 23 2011 18:46 HowardRoark wrote:
I am happy Hero goes for Templars, because it makes PvZ games interesting to watch compared to balls of Colossus, but why do it when Colossus balls seem to much better (albeit so much more boring)? Do he skip Colossus balls for entertainment or that the skill cap for Templars are higher than Colossus balls? He skipped Colossi as soon as his entire army died to mutas because you can't defend mutas on Dual Sight when going fast colossi off 2 base. Ok. Protoss is so much more fun to watch whenever they skip Colossus completely, feels like a different race, feels like Protoss again with storms, archons and good action all over the place.
Yeah, the Colossus is hurting ESPORTS
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On December 23 2011 18:49 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. That's the silliest thing I've seen in this thread so far. July played a pretty safe/standard muta opening and he was blind countering? He actually scouted with an overseer, unlike Hero (who went prism before obs) O_o
It was the least safe muta build you could've done other than 1 base muta. He had 10 lings and 0 spines which would've very easily died to any 5+ gate pressure.
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United States15275 Posts
On December 23 2011 18:50 skrotcyk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:45 CosmicSpiral wrote:On December 23 2011 18:40 xrapture wrote:On December 23 2011 18:38 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Was he assuming fast infestor? hrm maybe, but as a Terran player myself it's mind boggling as to why someone would do a push vs zerg with no anti air at the 11 minute mark. I'm getting more convinced that Hero was trying to hit that timing with 4 gate warp prism pressure, but he completely misread the tech and assumed infestors instead of mutas. why would he assume infestors when mutas are x15077376 times more common in the korean zvp metagame? doesn't make sense.
Fast 2 base muta is really not common in the ZvP metagame anymore. It died out quickly once Ps started crushing it with 2 base timings.
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On December 23 2011 18:51 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:49 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:48 Azzur wrote:On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. It wasn't so much of a blind counter - it was coin flipping by hero july flipped the biggest coin of all. the gates he scouted could have easily gone into a quick gw timing that would have smashed what he was doing (no spines, either) and it's not like he saw the pylon to know some kind of pressure was going to head to the third ...Hero hit at the fastest timing he could (considering when those gates popped) and you saw what happened. Even if Hero had warped in all stalkers, there were enough mutas there. What are you talking about O_o
it's not the speed of the timing i'm talking about. the gw timing is not something you hit right after wg finishes. that's more akin to a 5 gate that you never do out of an ffe.
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Australia18228 Posts
On December 23 2011 18:50 weiliem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:46 HowardRoark wrote:
I am happy Hero goes for Templars, because it makes PvZ games interesting to watch compared to balls of Colossus, but why do it when Colossus balls seem to much better (albeit so much more boring)? Do he skip Colossus balls for entertainment or that the skill cap for Templars are higher than Colossus balls? What are u talking about?? templar is the counter to mutaling.... how do u counter mutaling with colossus?? =.=
MC's Collosi+Mass Blink Stalker composition style. HerO prefers Templars though, maybe because Storm is much better than Collosi late-game as they are pretty much infinite (your energy will recharge before another engagement) and harder to counter than Collosi.
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On December 23 2011 18:50 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:49 Assirra wrote:On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. No he didn't. Hero failed to read the situation when he saw the lair tech. when has no spine + relatively quick 3rd + standard lair timing (after 3rd hatch) ever meant 10 min mutas..
He went lair before third (the standard third timing nowadays is 4:30-5mins, his was at like 6:30 lol), went for a ton of lings to be safe (near identical worker counts, July just had the 3rd for the gas) and scouted at the fastest possible timing reliably. You're wrong dude =/
On December 23 2011 18:51 hugedong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:49 Jehct wrote:On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. That's the silliest thing I've seen in this thread so far. July played a pretty safe/standard muta opening and he was blind countering? He actually scouted with an overseer, unlike Hero (who went prism before obs) O_o It was the least safe muta build you could've done other than 1 base muta. He had 10 lings and 0 spines which would've very easily died to any 5+ gate pressure.
He did do 5gate pressure O_o He just did the warp prism variant that Sase and a few others do. There were a lot more than 10 lings out before the mutas. I don't know what else to say, haha.
I definitely think that July couldn't have held a 7gate all-in or something similar, but he scouted Hero's entire base and saw the robo. He just read the game better. Calling it blind countering and such is an insult to July (and I'm a Hero fan, July sucks).
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They don't usually do game reviews in up/down do they? Cause.....there's still 13 games to go.... ;o
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On December 23 2011 18:50 weiliem wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:46 HowardRoark wrote:
I am happy Hero goes for Templars, because it makes PvZ games interesting to watch compared to balls of Colossus, but why do it when Colossus balls seem to much better (albeit so much more boring)? Do he skip Colossus balls for entertainment or that the skill cap for Templars are higher than Colossus balls? What are u talking about?? templar is the counter to mutaling.... how do u counter mutaling with colossus?? =.=
You have stalkers wih the colosi do you not + centry shield ? Deathball is still the best way to go imo.
But then again HerO was only on 2 base gas starving compared to 5 base of July, doubt it really mattered.
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On December 23 2011 18:50 gruff wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 18:49 Jehct wrote:On December 23 2011 18:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 23 2011 18:45 Elefanto wrote:
Funny how all hailed Hero as the best Protoss when other were failing left and right in Code S, but now that Hero plays against the same opponents he looks as mortal / "bad" as the others were before him. how did he look bad? july blind countered him.. That's the silliest thing I've seen in this thread so far. July played a pretty safe/standard muta opening and he was blind countering? He actually scouted with an overseer, unlike Hero (who went prism before obs) O_o I see this all the time. When a player choose a risky or simply bad strategy and lose, people call it like the other player blind counter him. I don't think they really understand what it means.
Going straight to spire on just lings is very risky, but July must've studied Hero's builds. When's the last time you've seen Hero do like a 7 gate all in?
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EPT
