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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
Enjoy the games. |
On December 13 2011 00:25 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:22 Dauntless wrote:On December 12 2011 19:49 Nate5911 wrote:
MVP played that as smart as you possibly can with a build like that. *Always* chooses the right builds. Or it's just the flexibility of Terran that allows him to do fake expands like that. GL doing something like that as Protoss.. HerO has some of the best multitasking, micro and creativity in the scene, and he's already out.. Fucking hell.. You do realize That one of MC's staple builds Was a fake nexus Into gateway allin Just sayin'
Spreading misinformation as always. I've seen a grand total of 1 game(vs July) where he has done this, and now it becomes a "staple build" ?
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On December 13 2011 01:09 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:03 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 00:59 Ylrahc wrote:The argument of Stephano's style being thoroughly analyzed in the "next coming weeks" has been running around for...3 months now, since the IPL3 win, but that didn't effect his win / rate ratio much...guess what, because he adapts his play and his builds as well  Of course he doesn't radically change them, but by making timings and positionings more precise, he makes them better. I don't think they've cared too much until now that he's in Korea. If he leaves they'll probably just forget about it unless they can get some of their players to like it. It would have to be more tested in time to see, a few Code A appearances could make the trick. On December 13 2011 00:59 MadNeSs wrote:
Im so diappointed in Stephano tbh. It seems he lacks abit in the metagame department. I mean why would he try to cheese MC? It doesnt make sense, especially considering that MC is know for great micro and great ff's. It just didnt make sense. Stephano would have had a much better chance of winning, if he had just chosen to play a straight up macro game. He can thank nobody but himself for not getting out of his group. He is better than what he showed today... Or is he? Exactly, I really don't understand why Stephano would go for such a build against MC of all players, on that map of all maps. It's so weird. That game was key, MC is very uncomfortable in that map playing vZ, Stephano should have known this by now. I think he did that becuase it would be unexpected. If Stephano had killed MC there it would have been a genius move but instead it was a bad move. There is a very thin line between genius and bad.
It is probably the most zerg favored map in the pool and MC is known for insane control and very good crisis management and on the spot decisionmaking. It was a bad decision.
It's not even like he was unlucky and MC blindcountered it. MC did exactly what Stepahno could have hoped for and it still didn't work
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stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one?
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On December 13 2011 01:00 Olinimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:52 Dauntless wrote:On December 13 2011 00:48 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 00:45 Dauntless wrote:
I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2.
HerO's got sick multitasking and micro, and when playing at his best, some of the best crisis management and reactions in SC2. So he's not nervous when he wins Dreamhack but every single time he plays in GSL he suffers from nerves? Well isn't that a convenient coincidence. Anyone ever think...wait just here me out...he lost because that's his skill level? A crazy idea I know. You're really good at putting words in peoples mouth. Whoever said he wasn't nervous at DH? I bet he was, but still won. And nobody is claiming that HerO is stable in his performances. If you had seen more games with HerO, you'd know what he's capable of. When in top form his level is extremely high, while he can sometimes play extremely bad as well. This is something he'll have to work with if he ever wants to become the best of the best. I doubt it. He looks "extremely high level" when defeating foreigners but he still hasn't put up a good performance in a Korean tournament. Nervousness is a convenient excuse. He's a mid Code A level Protoss nothing more at this time.
I guess PuMa isn't Korean. But alright, he still has a lot to prove, but I guess we'll see if he's just a mid Code A level Protoss in the future..
On December 13 2011 01:04 tapk69 wrote:Show nested quote +I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2. lol ? u mad ? i saw mlg providence and dreamhack , Hero is very good , but naniwa or MC are good protosses too ... And to be the best player in SC2 individually , for now you just have to win at least as much as MVP , so lets recapitulate : -3 GSL wins , 1 second place - WCG 2011 ( the first of SC2 ) -Blizzcon - 1 MLG Also making 90% of his opponents look like noobs when they loose , and looking like a boss when he losses...
Being the best player to this date isn't the same as having most tourney wins. And I don't think HerO will be the best player in the near future, he has to work hard and overcome his struggles. He has such extreme potential. There's a reason he's Day9's favourite player.. I'm just hoping and believing, man..
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On December 13 2011 01:16 mememolly wrote:
stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one?
I dont think any teams outside of Korea got a coach.
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On December 13 2011 01:09 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:03 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 00:59 Ylrahc wrote:The argument of Stephano's style being thoroughly analyzed in the "next coming weeks" has been running around for...3 months now, since the IPL3 win, but that didn't effect his win / rate ratio much...guess what, because he adapts his play and his builds as well Of course he doesn't radically change them, but by making timings and positionings more precise, he makes them better. I don't think they've cared too much until now that he's in Korea. If he leaves they'll probably just forget about it unless they can get some of their players to like it. It would have to be more tested in time to see, a few Code A appearances could make the trick. On December 13 2011 00:59 MadNeSs wrote:
Im so diappointed in Stephano tbh. It seems he lacks abit in the metagame department. I mean why would he try to cheese MC? It doesnt make sense, especially considering that MC is know for great micro and great ff's. It just didnt make sense. Stephano would have had a much better chance of winning, if he had just chosen to play a straight up macro game. He can thank nobody but himself for not getting out of his group. He is better than what he showed today... Or is he? Exactly, I really don't understand why Stephano would go for such a build against MC of all players, on that map of all maps. It's so weird. That game was key, MC is very uncomfortable in that map playing vZ, Stephano should have known this by now. I think he did that becuase it would be unexpected. If Stephano had killed MC there it would have been a genius move but instead it was a bad move. There is a very thin line between genius and bad.
The thing is, that play working against MC is an EXTREMELY unlikely scenario. Particularly on Dual Sight, reason being MC will always go for the 2 base play, it's a map in which MC is very uncomfortable taking a 3rd vZ so he'll try to end the game earlier, be it a 6-gate timing or stargate into 2-base colo or WP ramp block play. With all of these, MC can defend rather easily against early Zerg rushes and cheeses, and MC almost never loses to that because he's got some of the best micro, FFs and crisis management around.
The point is, if you've studied MC, and you know you're playing on Dual Sight, you know going for these strategies is a VERY bad idea. The best idea is to go for a build that can defend the 2-base timing, MC isn't going to plan a macro game on DS.
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On December 13 2011 01:17 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:16 mememolly wrote:
stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one? I dont think any teams outside of Korea got a coach.
that sucks and is a large variable that western players miss, especially when they are over in korea
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On December 13 2011 01:17 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:16 mememolly wrote:
stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one? I dont think any teams outside of Korea got a coach.
EG has iNcontroL.
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On December 13 2011 01:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:17 HappyChris wrote:On December 13 2011 01:16 mememolly wrote:
stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one? I dont think any teams outside of Korea got a coach. EG has iNcontroL.
Ok, I didnt knew he was acting in a coach role also. Make alot of sence actually I think incontrol can be a really good coach becuase he is very rational
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Wow Hero the best protoss in the world, didnt advanced? Weird.
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On December 13 2011 01:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:17 HappyChris wrote:On December 13 2011 01:16 mememolly wrote:
stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one? I dont think any teams outside of Korea got a coach. EG has iNcontroL.
omg...
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On December 13 2011 01:20 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 13 2011 01:17 HappyChris wrote:On December 13 2011 01:16 mememolly wrote:
stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one? I dont think any teams outside of Korea got a coach. EG has iNcontroL. Ok, I didnt knew he was acting in a coach role also. Make alot of sence actually I think incontrol can be a really good coach becuase he is very rational
Yeah he definitely takes the game and lifestyle very seriously too.
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On December 13 2011 00:48 Kiichol wrote:
So very disappointed with today's results.
Getting extremely tired and bored of the Korean domination..
I'm sorry but I feel no affiliation with Korean players at all and if there is no foreigners in a tournament I find it extremely boring to watch. It ruins the excitement, it's always like "So which Korean is gonna win this time?"
//a dis-heartened fan
i don't see why a player would have to come from a country other than Korea in order for you to feel affiliation towards that player.
imagine if i said i could never root for the US olympic basketbal team simply because they're american
imagine if i said i could never root for the Spanish football team simply because they're spanish
unless you meant ethnicity instead of nationality....in which case you'd be a racist then.
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On December 13 2011 00:48 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:44 Artosis Haircut wrote:On December 13 2011 00:04 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 12 2011 23:44 dapierow wrote:
the second type of antifan is because of the fact Idra has said stephano is overrated...
IdrA said that stephano's style will be figured out by the koreans and he will stop winning as much DRG said the EXACT same thing in his winner interview, it's in the community forum if you want to see. Maybe Idra should figure out how to win games himself before he starts talking smack about other players. Also, DRG lost, he only makes himself look stupid by bashing a player that outplayed him. I've seen how good Stephano is, not just in tournaments but also on Korean GM ladder, Idra is nowhere near that level, and he's been around for alot longer than Stephano aswell. Even though Stephano is out, I still think taking two games of players this calibir is a good result. I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this.
Baseless conjecture, seriously.
Stephano has been around for long enough time now for Korean team houses to analyze his tactics.
Yet he's still winning games.
Truth is, Stephano is a very versatile player, meaning he does tons of different builds, which is what top players do.
Just because Idra does the same thing in every matchup doesn't mean Stephano is like that, he is obviously on a much higher level.
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On December 13 2011 01:16 Dauntless wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:00 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 00:52 Dauntless wrote:On December 13 2011 00:48 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 00:45 Dauntless wrote:
I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2.
HerO's got sick multitasking and micro, and when playing at his best, some of the best crisis management and reactions in SC2. So he's not nervous when he wins Dreamhack but every single time he plays in GSL he suffers from nerves? Well isn't that a convenient coincidence. Anyone ever think...wait just here me out...he lost because that's his skill level? A crazy idea I know. You're really good at putting words in peoples mouth. Whoever said he wasn't nervous at DH? I bet he was, but still won. And nobody is claiming that HerO is stable in his performances. If you had seen more games with HerO, you'd know what he's capable of. When in top form his level is extremely high, while he can sometimes play extremely bad as well. This is something he'll have to work with if he ever wants to become the best of the best. I doubt it. He looks "extremely high level" when defeating foreigners but he still hasn't put up a good performance in a Korean tournament. Nervousness is a convenient excuse. He's a mid Code A level Protoss nothing more at this time. I guess PuMa isn't Korean. But alright, he still has a lot to prove, but I guess we'll see if he's just a mid Code A level Protoss in the future.. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:04 tapk69 wrote:I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2. lol ? u mad ? i saw mlg providence and dreamhack , Hero is very good , but naniwa or MC are good protosses too ... And to be the best player in SC2 individually , for now you just have to win at least as much as MVP , so lets recapitulate : -3 GSL wins , 1 second place - WCG 2011 ( the first of SC2 ) -Blizzcon - 1 MLG Also making 90% of his opponents look like noobs when they loose , and looking like a boss when he losses... Being the best player to this date isn't the same as having most tourney wins. And I don't think HerO will be the best player in the near future, he has to work hard and overcome his struggles. He has such extreme potential. There's a reason he's Day9's favourite player.. I'm just hoping and believing, man..
All of MVP's tourny wins are this year,he's been in top 4 in all tournies for the past six months. I think that does translate to MVP being the best player in sc2 scene. Don't tell me you have a best player in mind with no or few tournament wins..
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result almost as expected. thought it would be mvp drg mc. must go check out the vods now.
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On December 13 2011 01:24 Artosis Haircut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:48 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 00:44 Artosis Haircut wrote:On December 13 2011 00:04 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 12 2011 23:44 dapierow wrote:
the second type of antifan is because of the fact Idra has said stephano is overrated...
IdrA said that stephano's style will be figured out by the koreans and he will stop winning as much DRG said the EXACT same thing in his winner interview, it's in the community forum if you want to see. Maybe Idra should figure out how to win games himself before he starts talking smack about other players. Also, DRG lost, he only makes himself look stupid by bashing a player that outplayed him. I've seen how good Stephano is, not just in tournaments but also on Korean GM ladder, Idra is nowhere near that level, and he's been around for alot longer than Stephano aswell. Even though Stephano is out, I still think taking two games of players this calibir is a good result. I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this. Baseless conjecture, seriously. Stephano has been around for long enough time now for Korean team houses to analyze his tactics. Yet he's still winning games. Truth is, Stephano is a very versatile player, meaning he does tons of different builds, which is what top players do. Just because Idra does the same thing in every matchup doesn't mean Stephano is like that, he is obviously on a much higher level.
But why does it seem that everyone who is prepared against Stephano's style... destroys him?
Example #1: STC's rematch vs Stephano in which STC tore apart Stephano (2-0).
Example #2: MVP's win today vs Stephano. MVP said in his interview that his girlfriend showed him footage of his playstyle.
While everyone who loses to him says its because they were unprepared for his unorthodox style?
I'm guessing that your sole basis of your claim is Stephano's performance on the Korean ladder, which should carry far less weight than his performance in tournaments.
Regardless, strategy and playstyle are two of the easier things to pick up. DRG complimented Stephano on his mechanics, which is an impressive feat for a foreign-trained player.
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On December 13 2011 01:24 Artosis Haircut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:48 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 00:44 Artosis Haircut wrote:On December 13 2011 00:04 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 12 2011 23:44 dapierow wrote:
the second type of antifan is because of the fact Idra has said stephano is overrated...
IdrA said that stephano's style will be figured out by the koreans and he will stop winning as much DRG said the EXACT same thing in his winner interview, it's in the community forum if you want to see. Maybe Idra should figure out how to win games himself before he starts talking smack about other players. Also, DRG lost, he only makes himself look stupid by bashing a player that outplayed him. I've seen how good Stephano is, not just in tournaments but also on Korean GM ladder, Idra is nowhere near that level, and he's been around for alot longer than Stephano aswell. Even though Stephano is out, I still think taking two games of players this calibir is a good result. I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this. Baseless conjecture, seriously.Stephano has been around for long enough time now for Korean team houses to analyze his tactics. Yet he's still winning games. Truth is, Stephano is a very versatile player, meaning he does tons of different builds, which is what top players do. Just because Idra does the same thing in every matchup doesn't mean Stephano is like that, he is obviously on a much higher level.
Baseless? Considering this is what teams have been doing since the early BW days? I'd say you should reconsider that. You should also read later posts before answering blindly. Most likely scenario is that they haven't taken it too seriously so far because Stephano hasn't been in Korea for long and doesn't have enough tournament appearances. In this tourney, besides DRG, who lost narrowly, everyone looked fine against him. MVP almost blind countered him, which means he probably expected Stephano to do exactly what he did.
I'd like to see Stephano stay a while in Korea, to see objectively how he adapts to people studying him intensively. Sadly, he won't.
Just because Idra does the same thing in every matchup doesn't mean Stephano is like that, he is obviously on a much higher level.
Take that for a baseless conjecture.
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On December 13 2011 01:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:17 HappyChris wrote:On December 13 2011 01:16 mememolly wrote:
stephano needs a good coach, all the top koreans have them, do Mil even provide him with one? I dont think any teams outside of Korea got a coach. EG has iNcontroL.
Incontrol is their star protoss player.
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On December 13 2011 01:32 Apolex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 01:16 Dauntless wrote:On December 13 2011 01:00 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 00:52 Dauntless wrote:On December 13 2011 00:48 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 00:45 Dauntless wrote:
I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2.
HerO's got sick multitasking and micro, and when playing at his best, some of the best crisis management and reactions in SC2. So he's not nervous when he wins Dreamhack but every single time he plays in GSL he suffers from nerves? Well isn't that a convenient coincidence. Anyone ever think...wait just here me out...he lost because that's his skill level? A crazy idea I know. You're really good at putting words in peoples mouth. Whoever said he wasn't nervous at DH? I bet he was, but still won. And nobody is claiming that HerO is stable in his performances. If you had seen more games with HerO, you'd know what he's capable of. When in top form his level is extremely high, while he can sometimes play extremely bad as well. This is something he'll have to work with if he ever wants to become the best of the best. I doubt it. He looks "extremely high level" when defeating foreigners but he still hasn't put up a good performance in a Korean tournament. Nervousness is a convenient excuse. He's a mid Code A level Protoss nothing more at this time. I guess PuMa isn't Korean. But alright, he still has a lot to prove, but I guess we'll see if he's just a mid Code A level Protoss in the future.. On December 13 2011 01:04 tapk69 wrote:I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2. lol ? u mad ? i saw mlg providence and dreamhack , Hero is very good , but naniwa or MC are good protosses too ... And to be the best player in SC2 individually , for now you just have to win at least as much as MVP , so lets recapitulate : -3 GSL wins , 1 second place - WCG 2011 ( the first of SC2 ) -Blizzcon - 1 MLG Also making 90% of his opponents look like noobs when they loose , and looking like a boss when he losses... Being the best player to this date isn't the same as having most tourney wins. And I don't think HerO will be the best player in the near future, he has to work hard and overcome his struggles. He has such extreme potential. There's a reason he's Day9's favourite player.. I'm just hoping and believing, man.. All of MVP's tourny wins are this year,he's been in top 4 in all tournies for the past six months. I think that does translate to MVP being the best player in sc2 scene. Don't tell me you have a best player in mind with no or few tournament wins..
Wtf? You're misunderstanding so hard. I've never said MVP isn't the best player. He is currently the one with most tourney wins AND the best player atm. I'm just saying those two things aren't necessarily the same all the time..
Edit: And of course you need tourney wins to prove your the best.
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EPT
