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Contrary to popular belief Stephano is not from the States, any mindless spam asserting otherwise after this time (19:48 KST/ 5:48 AM EST/ 10:48 GMT) will meet a moderator response. We have enough confusing spam posting in LR threads these days. Lets try to keep the love for everyone's favourite French zerg reasonable.
And as always:
- No player bashing.
- No caster bashing.
- No balance whining.
Enjoy the games. |
I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2.
HerO's got sick multitasking and micro, and when playing at his best, some of the best crisis management and reactions in SC2.
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I don't know which are worse, Idra fanboys or Stephano fanboys. Why can't we just enjoy good SC2 games? Jesus Christ...
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So very disappointed with today's results.
Getting extremely tired and bored of the Korean domination..
I'm sorry but I feel no affiliation with Korean players at all and if there is no foreigners in a tournament I find it extremely boring to watch. It ruins the excitement, it's always like "So which Korean is gonna win this time?"
//a dis-heartened fan
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On December 13 2011 00:43 ZergLover wrote:
its obvious that idra is just jealous of stephano and his success. He talks about koreans figuring out his style yet all he does in zvt is 2 base muta and because of that puma raped him in the nasl and even stated he knew that the only thing idra does is 2 base muta. Stephano wins WAY more than idra ever does, if you were to put idra in todays group, he would most likely be in last place as his zvp is just awful. Stephano is quite obviously the best foreign zerg, full credit to him. Look at the tough group he was placed in and didnt make it through because of a tie breaker to mc. Stephano is better. End of. Results speak for themselves, Idra is just a jealous little geek.
First post and obvious troll?
Who's gonna do the honors of reporting you?
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On December 13 2011 00:45 Dauntless wrote:
I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2.
HerO's got sick multitasking and micro, and when playing at his best, some of the best crisis management and reactions in SC2.
So he's not nervous when he wins Dreamhack but every single time he plays in GSL he suffers from nerves? Well isn't that a convenient coincidence. Anyone ever think...wait just here me out...he lost because that's his skill level? A crazy idea I know.
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On December 13 2011 00:44 Artosis Haircut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:04 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 12 2011 23:44 dapierow wrote:
the second type of antifan is because of the fact Idra has said stephano is overrated...
IdrA said that stephano's style will be figured out by the koreans and he will stop winning as much DRG said the EXACT same thing in his winner interview, it's in the community forum if you want to see. Maybe Idra should figure out how to win games himself before he starts talking smack about other players. Also, DRG lost, he only makes himself look stupid by bashing a player that outplayed him. I've seen how good Stephano is, not just in tournaments but also on Korean GM ladder, Idra is nowhere near that level, and he's been around for alot longer than Stephano aswell. Even though Stephano is out, I still think taking two games of players this calibir is a good result.
I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this.
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Really great games today! And i'm so happy MC made it out! :D
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impressive by MC pulling it off on some of the worse maps possible for him
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I'm not sure why Stephano decided to go for the semi-cheesy play vs. MC, I would've liked him to just play safe and just outplay MC which i'm confident he could've done. Too bad, would've been fun seeing a foreigner go through, Naniwa left but he's got one hell of a group to go through.
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On December 13 2011 00:48 Olinimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:45 Dauntless wrote:
I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2.
HerO's got sick multitasking and micro, and when playing at his best, some of the best crisis management and reactions in SC2. So he's not nervous when he wins Dreamhack but every single time he plays in GSL he suffers from nerves? Well isn't that a convenient coincidence. Anyone ever think...wait just here me out...he lost because that's his skill level? A crazy idea I know.
You're really good at putting words in peoples mouth. Whoever said he wasn't nervous at DH? I bet he was, but still won. And nobody is claiming that HerO is stable in his performances.
If you had seen more games with HerO, you'd know what he's capable of. When in top form his level is extremely high, while he can sometimes play extremely bad as well. This is something he'll have to work with if he ever wants to become the best of the best.
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On December 13 2011 00:48 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:44 Artosis Haircut wrote:On December 13 2011 00:04 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 12 2011 23:44 dapierow wrote:
the second type of antifan is because of the fact Idra has said stephano is overrated...
IdrA said that stephano's style will be figured out by the koreans and he will stop winning as much DRG said the EXACT same thing in his winner interview, it's in the community forum if you want to see. Maybe Idra should figure out how to win games himself before he starts talking smack about other players. Also, DRG lost, he only makes himself look stupid by bashing a player that outplayed him. I've seen how good Stephano is, not just in tournaments but also on Korean GM ladder, Idra is nowhere near that level, and he's been around for alot longer than Stephano aswell. Even though Stephano is out, I still think taking two games of players this calibir is a good result. I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this.
Well at the same time MVP sayd Stephano got a unique style everything is relative. DRG got outplayed very hard by Stephano in that ZvZ so he proberly aint happy about that
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On December 13 2011 00:45 Dauntless wrote:
I think HerO is the Protoss player with best mechanics. He has stated himself that he struggles with nervousness, and sometimes overthinks situations (which leads to bad decision making). If he can overcome these two problems, I think he will emerge as, not only the best Protoss, but the best player in SC2.
HerO's got sick multitasking and micro, and when playing at his best, some of the best crisis management and reactions in SC2.
If you remove nervousness as a factor, there will still be many players better than Hero. Puma was Flash's perferred practice partner in BW (even called the "practice bonjwa") because of his incredible skill in practice, yet Puma was unsuccessful in BW largely due to his nerves.
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On December 13 2011 00:28 Olinimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:26 Strawburry17 wrote:On December 12 2011 22:56 power-overwhelming wrote:
The double standard in this forum is disgusting. It is almost so hard to take read everyone's opinion, let alone value them. Even "respected" posters do it too.
The problem with the games themselves were simply because they were BO1. However, the amount of bashing, specifically towards MC is sickening. He gets the worst possible maps for all his matchups except CBTS (which was wasted on PvP). He punished a greedy HerO and gets bashed for his "all-ins". Meanwhile MVP does a more obvious all in by bringing an SCV train and gets praised for being so smart.
That alone would have been understandable due to hardcore MVP fanboys being offended by MC's statement's and his ability to always take games off MVP, but now we got the Stephano fanboys fueling in more for the MC hate. MC draws Dual Sight for a PVZ. Statistically, it is heavily zerg favoured and taking a third is close to impossible. Stephano goes for a roach all in and gets defended perfectly by MC. MC proceeds to play the right way in a map against a zerg in response to what just happened earlier in the game.... and guess what? He gets bashed for "2-base all in".
I wonder if these same people even play the game or have close understanding to the Protoss mechanics. Protoss by far has the smallest margin of error and is the most unforgiving race. If you fail to kill a single worker or zergling on top of exchanging armies then you are severely behind. There is no back and forth. So for players like MC to calculate those risks and go for it is a testament to his confidence. Skillwise, apart from a couple of people, no one else can match MC's micro and his FF is easily the best in the world.
I would like if bashing is allowed, then be consistent. I don't know the avg age of poster in TL but it shouldn't excuse for this embarrassing behaviour.
Overall I was surprised MVP went 3-1. Was expecting a 2-2 or a a 1-3. There is some wrong information here. MC's ability to always take games off MVP?? Fact : MVP is overwhemling against MC in score actually. 1.GSTL Feb IM vs oGs: MVP wins 2.GSL August Ro.32 : MVP wins 3 WCG 2011 Korean quialifier Ro.16 : 2-1 for MVP 4.MLG Providence : 4-2 for MVP 5.Blizzard Cup : MVP wins. Overall 9-3 for MVP. (so one-sided....lol) You forgot Ace invitational so 9-4. At least it's better than Nesteas record against MVP :D
Well. MVP - NesTea record is 12-6
1.GSL Jan Ro.4 : 3-1 for MVP
2.GSL Aug Ro.16 : 2-0 for MVP
3.GSL Oct Ro.8 : 3-2 for MVP
4.Blizzcon Final : 4-3 for MVP
Overall 12-6 for MVP.
So obviously It is better than MVP-MC 's 9-4 record....^0^
(remember how Calm Before The Storm is a protoss-oriented map. Actually even MC's 1 win is just meaningless I think)
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On December 13 2011 00:52 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:48 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 00:44 Artosis Haircut wrote:On December 13 2011 00:04 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 12 2011 23:44 dapierow wrote:
the second type of antifan is because of the fact Idra has said stephano is overrated...
IdrA said that stephano's style will be figured out by the koreans and he will stop winning as much DRG said the EXACT same thing in his winner interview, it's in the community forum if you want to see. Maybe Idra should figure out how to win games himself before he starts talking smack about other players. Also, DRG lost, he only makes himself look stupid by bashing a player that outplayed him. I've seen how good Stephano is, not just in tournaments but also on Korean GM ladder, Idra is nowhere near that level, and he's been around for alot longer than Stephano aswell. Even though Stephano is out, I still think taking two games of players this calibir is a good result. I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this. Well at the same time MVP sayd Stephano got a unique style everything is relative. DRG got outplayed very hard by Stephano in that ZvZ so he proberly aint happy about that
Unique just strengthens the point of his style getting thoroughly analyzed in the coming weeks. All I'm saying is that his comment wasn't a bash or an insult in any way, interpretating it like that is being a bit too sensitive. It's also highlighting a specific part of his answer and ignoring he also said Stephano's mechanics are solid. There's no bash intended imo, and saying so is just flamebaiting, which is bad for this forum 
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On December 13 2011 00:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:43 ZergLover wrote:
its obvious that idra is just jealous of stephano and his success. He talks about koreans figuring out his style yet all he does in zvt is 2 base muta and because of that puma raped him in the nasl and even stated he knew that the only thing idra does is 2 base muta. Stephano wins WAY more than idra ever does, if you were to put idra in todays group, he would most likely be in last place as his zvp is just awful. Stephano is quite obviously the best foreign zerg, full credit to him. Look at the tough group he was placed in and didnt make it through because of a tie breaker to mc. Stephano is better. End of. Results speak for themselves, Idra is just a jealous little geek. First post and obvious troll? Who's gonna do the honors of reporting you?
how am i 'trolling' ?
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HerO's greediness is getting punished these days. He's always taking a huge risk. If that succeeds he wins, if not he loses in under 5 minutes like in nearly all games today...
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On December 13 2011 00:54 Strawburry17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:28 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 00:26 Strawburry17 wrote:On December 12 2011 22:56 power-overwhelming wrote:
The double standard in this forum is disgusting. It is almost so hard to take read everyone's opinion, let alone value them. Even "respected" posters do it too.
The problem with the games themselves were simply because they were BO1. However, the amount of bashing, specifically towards MC is sickening. He gets the worst possible maps for all his matchups except CBTS (which was wasted on PvP). He punished a greedy HerO and gets bashed for his "all-ins". Meanwhile MVP does a more obvious all in by bringing an SCV train and gets praised for being so smart.
That alone would have been understandable due to hardcore MVP fanboys being offended by MC's statement's and his ability to always take games off MVP, but now we got the Stephano fanboys fueling in more for the MC hate. MC draws Dual Sight for a PVZ. Statistically, it is heavily zerg favoured and taking a third is close to impossible. Stephano goes for a roach all in and gets defended perfectly by MC. MC proceeds to play the right way in a map against a zerg in response to what just happened earlier in the game.... and guess what? He gets bashed for "2-base all in".
I wonder if these same people even play the game or have close understanding to the Protoss mechanics. Protoss by far has the smallest margin of error and is the most unforgiving race. If you fail to kill a single worker or zergling on top of exchanging armies then you are severely behind. There is no back and forth. So for players like MC to calculate those risks and go for it is a testament to his confidence. Skillwise, apart from a couple of people, no one else can match MC's micro and his FF is easily the best in the world.
I would like if bashing is allowed, then be consistent. I don't know the avg age of poster in TL but it shouldn't excuse for this embarrassing behaviour.
Overall I was surprised MVP went 3-1. Was expecting a 2-2 or a a 1-3. There is some wrong information here. MC's ability to always take games off MVP?? Fact : MVP is overwhemling against MC in score actually. 1.GSTL Feb IM vs oGs: MVP wins 2.GSL August Ro.32 : MVP wins 3 WCG 2011 Korean quialifier Ro.16 : 2-1 for MVP 4.MLG Providence : 4-2 for MVP 5.Blizzard Cup : MVP wins. Overall 9-3 for MVP. (so one-sided....lol) You forgot Ace invitational so 9-4. At least it's better than Nesteas record against MVP :D Well. MVP - NesTea record is 12-6 1.GSL Jan Ro.4 : 3-1 for MVP 2.GSL Aug Ro.16 : 2-0 for MVP 3.GSL Oct Ro.8 : 3-2 for MVP 4.Blizzcon Final : 4-3 for MVP Overall 12-6 for MVP. So obviously It is better than MVP-MC 's 9-4 record. (remember how Calm Before The Storm is a protoss-oriented map. Actually even MC's 1 win is just meaningless I think) It is better than MVP - MC 's 9-4 record....^0^
Haha its meaningless cuz of the map? Ok MVP's August win was meaningless because no one could beat terran at that time  .(Come on dude really?)
And yeah I forgot blizzcon results my mistake.
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On December 13 2011 00:55 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:52 HappyChris wrote:On December 13 2011 00:48 mordk wrote:On December 13 2011 00:44 Artosis Haircut wrote:On December 13 2011 00:04 SafeAsCheese wrote:On December 12 2011 23:44 dapierow wrote:
the second type of antifan is because of the fact Idra has said stephano is overrated...
IdrA said that stephano's style will be figured out by the koreans and he will stop winning as much DRG said the EXACT same thing in his winner interview, it's in the community forum if you want to see. Maybe Idra should figure out how to win games himself before he starts talking smack about other players. Also, DRG lost, he only makes himself look stupid by bashing a player that outplayed him. I've seen how good Stephano is, not just in tournaments but also on Korean GM ladder, Idra is nowhere near that level, and he's been around for alot longer than Stephano aswell. Even though Stephano is out, I still think taking two games of players this calibir is a good result. I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this. Well at the same time MVP sayd Stephano got a unique style everything is relative. DRG got outplayed very hard by Stephano in that ZvZ so he proberly aint happy about that Unique just strengthens the point of his style getting thoroughly analyzed in the coming weeks. All I'm saying is that his comment wasn't a bash or an insult in any way, interpretating it like that is being a bit too sensitive. It's also highlighting a specific part of his answer and ignoring he also said Stephano's mechanics are solid. There's no bash intended imo, and saying so is just flamebaiting, which is bad for this forum
Good point
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On December 13 2011 00:54 Strawburry17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:28 Olinimm wrote:On December 13 2011 00:26 Strawburry17 wrote:On December 12 2011 22:56 power-overwhelming wrote:
The double standard in this forum is disgusting. It is almost so hard to take read everyone's opinion, let alone value them. Even "respected" posters do it too.
The problem with the games themselves were simply because they were BO1. However, the amount of bashing, specifically towards MC is sickening. He gets the worst possible maps for all his matchups except CBTS (which was wasted on PvP). He punished a greedy HerO and gets bashed for his "all-ins". Meanwhile MVP does a more obvious all in by bringing an SCV train and gets praised for being so smart.
That alone would have been understandable due to hardcore MVP fanboys being offended by MC's statement's and his ability to always take games off MVP, but now we got the Stephano fanboys fueling in more for the MC hate. MC draws Dual Sight for a PVZ. Statistically, it is heavily zerg favoured and taking a third is close to impossible. Stephano goes for a roach all in and gets defended perfectly by MC. MC proceeds to play the right way in a map against a zerg in response to what just happened earlier in the game.... and guess what? He gets bashed for "2-base all in".
I wonder if these same people even play the game or have close understanding to the Protoss mechanics. Protoss by far has the smallest margin of error and is the most unforgiving race. If you fail to kill a single worker or zergling on top of exchanging armies then you are severely behind. There is no back and forth. So for players like MC to calculate those risks and go for it is a testament to his confidence. Skillwise, apart from a couple of people, no one else can match MC's micro and his FF is easily the best in the world.
I would like if bashing is allowed, then be consistent. I don't know the avg age of poster in TL but it shouldn't excuse for this embarrassing behaviour.
Overall I was surprised MVP went 3-1. Was expecting a 2-2 or a a 1-3. There is some wrong information here. MC's ability to always take games off MVP?? Fact : MVP is overwhemling against MC in score actually. 1.GSTL Feb IM vs oGs: MVP wins 2.GSL August Ro.32 : MVP wins 3 WCG 2011 Korean quialifier Ro.16 : 2-1 for MVP 4.MLG Providence : 4-2 for MVP 5.Blizzard Cup : MVP wins. Overall 9-3 for MVP. (so one-sided....lol) You forgot Ace invitational so 9-4. At least it's better than Nesteas record against MVP :D Well. MVP - NesTea record is 12-6 1.GSL Jan Ro.4 : 3-1 for MVP 2.GSL Aug Ro.16 : 2-0 for MVP 3.GSL Oct Ro.8 : 3-2 for MVP 4.Blizzcon Final : 4-3 for MVP Overall 12-6 for MVP. So obviously It is better than MVP-MC 's 9-4 record. (remember how Calm Before The Storm is a protoss-oriented map. Actually even MC's 1 win is just meaningless I think) It is better than MVP - MC 's 9-4 record....^0^
???
Reading TLPD I see 8-6 in favor of MVP. 9-6 if you consider Blizz Cup, which isn't listed.
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I don't think DRG's comment can be classified as a bash. He's just stating something that's considered true by many people. Stephano's style WILL get analyzed and ripped apart by korean team houses, make no mistake, it's what korean coaches do best. Specially teams like SlayerS. We'll have to see how Stephano adapts to this.
The argument of Stephano's style being thoroughly analyzed in the "next coming weeks" has been running around for...3 months now, since the IPL3 win, but that didn't effect his win / rate ratio much...guess what, because he adapts his play and his builds as well Of course he doesn't radically change them, but by making timings and positionings more precise, he makes them better. That doesn't mean he is unbeatable of course, and I for one thinks he should vary his game a bit much, especially against terran as he has shown in the past flawless ling / bling / mutas games, but if that works for him... 
Oh, and the all-in against MC was actually against his style, he usually goes into macro-game against protosses with infestors / broodlords, and wins unless he messes up his broodlords placement and gets owned by archon toilet, so you could argue that varying his style didn't make him any good today
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EPT
