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Thread unlocked. Please THINK before you post, and rest assured that ANY infringement of the rules will be dealt with severely.
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- riptide |
Seems like u guys have been naughty here last night. Can anyone explain what Naniwa did? Apparently bm'ed Nestea?
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MVP and Nestea had to play a crap ton of games (as with any other open bracket player) without much breaks. I don`t think anyone can reasonably expect them to show their absolute top play. Especially for Nestea...the guy is 30 years old. I wish Naniwa would show more respect especially to Nestea.
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On November 20 2011 14:08 Golgotha wrote:
"Naniwa is an ill mannered son of a bitch. I've met many bad mannered people in my life but to run into a person like him..he shows such foolish antics"
IM coach is pissed.
o.0 .... That was not really called for, especially from a coach, and why insult his parents?
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On November 20 2011 14:09 kurrysauce wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:01 Vertical wrote:On November 20 2011 13:52 Azarkon wrote:
The dust settles, and two foreigners remain in the WB. IdrA can't seem to hang with the new Protoss meta-game, not that his ZvP was ever stellar. Unfortunate that he had to face MC instead of MVP, but there's still the chance that he might face MVP in the LB.
Naniwa and HuK have carried the foreigner torch forward this tournament, though in different fashions. The first has become the new face of BM. The second is an old crowd favorite. In terms of achievements, Naniwa has achieved much more this MLG - beating MVP, Nestea, and then Nestea again (for a record of 4-2) is not something any other foreigner can boast. As much notoriety as Naniwa might have gained for his actions in-between games, the man deserves credit for showing that no, he is not going to become just another foreigner victim in a sea of foreigner victims. He wants it all.
Meanwhile, the favorites from IM, Nestea and MVP, have both been sent to the LB. That this would happen, and via foreigners in the case of Nestea, was almost unthinkable prior to the tournament. But now it is a reality - though no doubt helped by the seeding system that gave them ample time to prepare, whereas Nestea and MVP had to slug it through the OB, one foreigner has risen to the greatest challenge of them all... And triumphed.
Pity that he had to wreck his reputation on the exact same day.
But hey, Naniwa is what he is. Accept him, reject him, hate him, love him, this tournament thus far has been his story. u talk as if Naniwa and Huk is somewhat sooo gooooddd if foreigners that good, then why's no one ever through the second round of Code A ?! only Huk able do that, after he's multiple tries foreigner won because this is "their" tournament their rules, their turf, system, etc the fact that only Huk (and jinro, and arguably idra) can last in korean turf, but NEVER won a single cup is a fact that foreginer only won because this is "their" tournament korean come being jet lagged, crawling from open bracket, with maximum a week of training (due to GSL) but foreigner came to GSL with everything set they came more than 3 days before the match (citation needed), they know the opponent, has the same preparation time the same thing goes for GSL World Championship u saw the IPL KoTH like clan war ? no one gets even near slayers B teamers thou i'd like to see how EG (arguably the best foreigner team) has their chances against them they can have the throphy, but NOT YET the acknowledgement You do realise that naniwa flew in from Korea just like all the other koreans don't you? I don't think anyone is claiming NANIWA > NESTEA & MVP , NANIWA BEST IN THE WORLD!!. Look , naniwa had a good day and yes the koreans are not in their comfort zone. But still , you have to give credit where credit is due , Naniwa took both of them out convincingly . Even though the matches today PvZ weren't really.. stellar (If I had a dollar for every time I saw that warp prism force field + stargate/ warpgate shit..) naniwa still did a good job. Posting with such Korean biasness only makes you look pretty stupid.
do you realize they only got to play one game while most korean plays in the open bracket
i've stated it in the quoted post, u might missed it
oh and the other post is not foreigner biased ?
like i said
they got the throphy which indeed they did well in "THEIR" tournament
but claiming they're soooo good, etc is not yet acceptable
i never dismiss their great game
what im saying is the condition favours them
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On November 20 2011 14:12 dartoo wrote:o.0 .... That was not really called for, especially from a coach, and why insult his parents?
im assuming this is a joke
otherwise lol wat
but honestly you can't blame im coach, that was two hours ago right when naniwa won after being a dick to everyone including mlg. emotions were running quite high then.
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On November 20 2011 13:49 Desert Fox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 13:44 Fubi wrote:On November 20 2011 13:40 Desert Fox wrote:On November 20 2011 13:38 iky43210 wrote:
MLG seeded system only allows very few people to make it through open bracket. So having 40 koreans or 10 koreans participating don't make a dime difference, only few gets through anyway Year long tournaments designed to reward year long participants should reward year long participants. I hope that makes sense. Hope you realize this system doesn't really work for SC2, where the scene involves much more than just the Americans. You can't realistically expect all the Europeans and Koreans to dedicate their time AND money coming to every event. And also, SC2 is a game that shifts super fast; look at the top players at the beginning of the year compare to now, 80-90% of them are different. Therefore you can't reward players simply because they've been coming to every tournament, as that would risk allowing mediocre players or players that have fallen out of the top to be seeded high. I think it actually has the greatest potential to work for SC2. IMO, SC2 reminds me of Professional Golf (PGA) and how they've set up their FedEx Cup. I view this tournament as simply something like that. Tiger Woods won a couple of them but you have some people who, because of their consistent play ended up in the top 30 after the final few tournaments, had a better chance to win and subsequently won. Such a format encourages and allows true leagues to form. When people like Huk and Idra discuss being selective in what tournaments they go to, there's a reason they pick the MLG over ESL (Orlando example). They payout their money, they have a better brand name and because those points mean something going into Providence where there's an excellent payout. I want that, I think it'd be good for the scene and it adds stability in a community that doesn't have it. I'd rather it all be like MLG than ESL or your random invitationals. Edit: And adding to that, it's not a big deal. You can win all the other tournaments or win one of them if you want (see: Mvp, MMA, Bomber). If you want to do well in this one, you need to show up to more or play one hell of a weekend. These individuals attempted the latter. That was their choice. Not every tournament needs to reward the greatest person--or the greatest planner. The GSL varies from MLG just in the ability to be able to analyze your opponent for days at a time before matching up against them. Variety is excellent and with the exception of the NASL finals between Puma and MC, the MLG has produced the most exciting content for fans. Don't be so quick to want to change everything about the MLG.
There are BIG differences between MLG and the PGA tour.
1) MLG rewards 5k per tournament for WINNING, PGA rewards much more
2) Koreans / European players are relatively poor teams with small sponsors compared to say Tiger Woods; a plane ticket to fly around the world is nothing for Tiger Woods, but definitely not worth it for the Koreans to spend 1-2k flight+hotel+food (and sometimes multiple team members) for a CHANCE to win 5k
3) SC2 is MUCH more volatile than any actual physical sport. A good golfer will not suddenly become a bad one in the course of 1-2 month, and the top ones tend to stay pretty consistent within 2-3 years. But for SC2, you can literally have players like Bomber playing like god for a month, then suddenly play like a masters player the next and fall off the map.
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On November 20 2011 14:12 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:09 kurrysauce wrote:On November 20 2011 14:01 Vertical wrote:On November 20 2011 13:52 Azarkon wrote:
The dust settles, and two foreigners remain in the WB. IdrA can't seem to hang with the new Protoss meta-game, not that his ZvP was ever stellar. Unfortunate that he had to face MC instead of MVP, but there's still the chance that he might face MVP in the LB.
Naniwa and HuK have carried the foreigner torch forward this tournament, though in different fashions. The first has become the new face of BM. The second is an old crowd favorite. In terms of achievements, Naniwa has achieved much more this MLG - beating MVP, Nestea, and then Nestea again (for a record of 4-2) is not something any other foreigner can boast. As much notoriety as Naniwa might have gained for his actions in-between games, the man deserves credit for showing that no, he is not going to become just another foreigner victim in a sea of foreigner victims. He wants it all.
Meanwhile, the favorites from IM, Nestea and MVP, have both been sent to the LB. That this would happen, and via foreigners in the case of Nestea, was almost unthinkable prior to the tournament. But now it is a reality - though no doubt helped by the seeding system that gave them ample time to prepare, whereas Nestea and MVP had to slug it through the OB, one foreigner has risen to the greatest challenge of them all... And triumphed.
Pity that he had to wreck his reputation on the exact same day.
But hey, Naniwa is what he is. Accept him, reject him, hate him, love him, this tournament thus far has been his story. u talk as if Naniwa and Huk is somewhat sooo gooooddd if foreigners that good, then why's no one ever through the second round of Code A ?! only Huk able do that, after he's multiple tries foreigner won because this is "their" tournament their rules, their turf, system, etc the fact that only Huk (and jinro, and arguably idra) can last in korean turf, but NEVER won a single cup is a fact that foreginer only won because this is "their" tournament korean come being jet lagged, crawling from open bracket, with maximum a week of training (due to GSL) but foreigner came to GSL with everything set they came more than 3 days before the match (citation needed), they know the opponent, has the same preparation time the same thing goes for GSL World Championship u saw the IPL KoTH like clan war ? no one gets even near slayers B teamers thou i'd like to see how EG (arguably the best foreigner team) has their chances against them they can have the throphy, but NOT YET the acknowledgement You do realise that naniwa flew in from Korea just like all the other koreans don't you? I don't think anyone is claiming NANIWA > NESTEA & MVP , NANIWA BEST IN THE WORLD!!. Look , naniwa had a good day and yes the koreans are not in their comfort zone. But still , you have to give credit where credit is due , Naniwa took both of them out convincingly . Even though the matches today PvZ weren't really.. stellar (If I had a dollar for every time I saw that warp prism force field + stargate/ warpgate shit..) naniwa still did a good job. Posting with such Korean biasness only makes you look pretty stupid. do you realize they only got to play one game while most korean plays in the open bracket i've stated it in the quoted post, u might missed it oh and the other post is not foreigner biased ? like i said they got the throphy which indeed they did well in "THEIR" tournament but claiming they're soooo good, etc is not yet acceptable i never dismiss their great game what im saying is the condition favours them
Alright...who cares? I'm the biggest MVP fan, and I'll admit that his TvP is weak, and thus he got outplayed by the P's. So what? I don't think anyone still doubts that he's the best SC2 T in the world after this anyways (especially considering he was the last undefeated player from the open bracket, and was looking unstoppable, before his MC series).
As for NesTea, who knows? Maybe his ZvP, like Idra, just hasn't caught up with the current metagame. There's no need for you to come up with excuses. So the conditions didn't favor them, and they lost. They're still in this tournament, and honestly, tomorrow will be even better for them, as they'll have had more time to recover from jetlag.
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On November 20 2011 14:08 ellirc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:07 Dundron2000 wrote:On November 20 2011 14:03 paintfive wrote:On November 20 2011 14:00 Dundron2000 wrote:
the thing i dont get is how Naniwa can be so crushingly self critical of all his losses and then switches to utter hubris after 2 series vs MVP and Nestea.. its like there is no middle ground what so ever.
and cue the Complexity damage control...
on the plus side ive never been so into a match as the 2nd nestea/nani, hope tomorrow keeps these awesome games going! lol... he beat MVP and Nestea!! id be pretty fuckin proud of myself. yes, and if he was proud of himself without calling his competitor an idiot i dont think anyone would have had a problem with it Except... He didn't. You obviously have not watched the interview.
then what was the point of him apologizing on his twitter for calling nestea an idiot?
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Stop with the drama you fools.
Let's go TLO! How bout that fungal/bling!
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On November 20 2011 14:15 Dundron2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:08 ellirc wrote:On November 20 2011 14:07 Dundron2000 wrote:On November 20 2011 14:03 paintfive wrote:On November 20 2011 14:00 Dundron2000 wrote:
the thing i dont get is how Naniwa can be so crushingly self critical of all his losses and then switches to utter hubris after 2 series vs MVP and Nestea.. its like there is no middle ground what so ever.
and cue the Complexity damage control...
on the plus side ive never been so into a match as the 2nd nestea/nani, hope tomorrow keeps these awesome games going! lol... he beat MVP and Nestea!! id be pretty fuckin proud of myself. yes, and if he was proud of himself without calling his competitor an idiot i dont think anyone would have had a problem with it Except... He didn't. You obviously have not watched the interview. then what was the point of him apologizing on his twitter for calling nestea an idiot?
Because people like you twist what he said or talk about things they've not even watched.
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On November 20 2011 14:14 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:12 dartoo wrote:o.0 .... That was not really called for, especially from a coach, and why insult his parents? im assuming this is a joke otherwise lol wat but honestly you can't blame im coach, that was two hours ago right when naniwa won after being a dick to everyone including mlg. emotions were running quite high then.
sadly it aint a joke. but the IM coach seem very protective of his players. he blames naniwa for all the delays and nestea's performance.
oh and the coach isn't dissing his parents, the direct translation for "sheki" is "bitch" but it more or less means "fucker" in Korea. The original translator kinda messed up.
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On November 20 2011 14:15 Dundron2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:08 ellirc wrote:On November 20 2011 14:07 Dundron2000 wrote:On November 20 2011 14:03 paintfive wrote:On November 20 2011 14:00 Dundron2000 wrote:
the thing i dont get is how Naniwa can be so crushingly self critical of all his losses and then switches to utter hubris after 2 series vs MVP and Nestea.. its like there is no middle ground what so ever.
and cue the Complexity damage control...
on the plus side ive never been so into a match as the 2nd nestea/nani, hope tomorrow keeps these awesome games going! lol... he beat MVP and Nestea!! id be pretty fuckin proud of myself. yes, and if he was proud of himself without calling his competitor an idiot i dont think anyone would have had a problem with it Except... He didn't. You obviously have not watched the interview. then what was the point of him apologizing on his twitter for calling nestea an idiot?
Because he used the wrong words. English isn't his first language so using the wrong words to express oneself without understanding the full ramifications of it is understandable. He just meant that he couldn't understand what Nestea did in Game 3 and it seemed like a stupid decision. Go watch the video.
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Back to the games... my favorite moment today was definitely Huk's insane hold vs unscouted proxy 2gate any Protoss out there knows how borderline impossible doing that is much less doing it vs HerO and losing only 1 probe
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On November 20 2011 14:12 dartoo wrote:o.0 .... That was not really called for, especially from a coach, and why insult his parents?
That's over the line, seriously naniwa didn't do as much as MC or Idra did in the past... and this response is so negative it's kinda sad to see it from a coach who should be an example for players.
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I don't think there's ever been anyone who's won it all from the open bracket, when koreans were around right? Naniwa's run, as impressive as it was, didn't really have the likes of MC, MKP, Bomber and a dozen of code A/S players on the way.. MVP and Nestea had an uphill battle from the beginning...
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On November 20 2011 14:12 mango_destroyer wrote:
MVP and Nestea had to play a crap ton of games (as with any other open bracket player) without much breaks. I don`t think anyone can reasonably expect them to show their absolute top play. Especially for Nestea...the guy is 30 years old. I wish Naniwa would show more respect especially to Nestea.
This. I remember in one of the old interview asking why Nestea doesn't show up to more of the previous MLG, and he responded with something like "I'm not very comfortable with stamina heavy tournament" or something like that.
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On November 20 2011 14:14 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:12 dartoo wrote:o.0 .... That was not really called for, especially from a coach, and why insult his parents? im assuming this is a joke otherwise lol wat but honestly you can't blame im coach, that was two hours ago right when naniwa won after being a dick to everyone including mlg. emotions were running quite high then.
Well, to put things in perspective Complexity's tweet was quite different. They even made it public that managers were investigating the whole thing and talking to Naniwa about manner.
On November 20 2011 14:15 Dundron2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:08 ellirc wrote:On November 20 2011 14:07 Dundron2000 wrote:On November 20 2011 14:03 paintfive wrote:On November 20 2011 14:00 Dundron2000 wrote:
the thing i dont get is how Naniwa can be so crushingly self critical of all his losses and then switches to utter hubris after 2 series vs MVP and Nestea.. its like there is no middle ground what so ever.
and cue the Complexity damage control...
on the plus side ive never been so into a match as the 2nd nestea/nani, hope tomorrow keeps these awesome games going! lol... he beat MVP and Nestea!! id be pretty fuckin proud of myself. yes, and if he was proud of himself without calling his competitor an idiot i dont think anyone would have had a problem with it Except... He didn't. You obviously have not watched the interview. then what was the point of him apologizing on his twitter for calling nestea an idiot?
He didn't, he kindly asked people who misunderstood to go watch the next interview where he is gonna explain everything.
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On November 20 2011 14:12 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:09 kurrysauce wrote:On November 20 2011 14:01 Vertical wrote:On November 20 2011 13:52 Azarkon wrote:
The dust settles, and two foreigners remain in the WB. IdrA can't seem to hang with the new Protoss meta-game, not that his ZvP was ever stellar. Unfortunate that he had to face MC instead of MVP, but there's still the chance that he might face MVP in the LB.
Naniwa and HuK have carried the foreigner torch forward this tournament, though in different fashions. The first has become the new face of BM. The second is an old crowd favorite. In terms of achievements, Naniwa has achieved much more this MLG - beating MVP, Nestea, and then Nestea again (for a record of 4-2) is not something any other foreigner can boast. As much notoriety as Naniwa might have gained for his actions in-between games, the man deserves credit for showing that no, he is not going to become just another foreigner victim in a sea of foreigner victims. He wants it all.
Meanwhile, the favorites from IM, Nestea and MVP, have both been sent to the LB. That this would happen, and via foreigners in the case of Nestea, was almost unthinkable prior to the tournament. But now it is a reality - though no doubt helped by the seeding system that gave them ample time to prepare, whereas Nestea and MVP had to slug it through the OB, one foreigner has risen to the greatest challenge of them all... And triumphed.
Pity that he had to wreck his reputation on the exact same day.
But hey, Naniwa is what he is. Accept him, reject him, hate him, love him, this tournament thus far has been his story. u talk as if Naniwa and Huk is somewhat sooo gooooddd if foreigners that good, then why's no one ever through the second round of Code A ?! only Huk able do that, after he's multiple tries foreigner won because this is "their" tournament their rules, their turf, system, etc the fact that only Huk (and jinro, and arguably idra) can last in korean turf, but NEVER won a single cup is a fact that foreginer only won because this is "their" tournament korean come being jet lagged, crawling from open bracket, with maximum a week of training (due to GSL) but foreigner came to GSL with everything set they came more than 3 days before the match (citation needed), they know the opponent, has the same preparation time the same thing goes for GSL World Championship u saw the IPL KoTH like clan war ? no one gets even near slayers B teamers thou i'd like to see how EG (arguably the best foreigner team) has their chances against them they can have the throphy, but NOT YET the acknowledgement You do realise that naniwa flew in from Korea just like all the other koreans don't you? I don't think anyone is claiming NANIWA > NESTEA & MVP , NANIWA BEST IN THE WORLD!!. Look , naniwa had a good day and yes the koreans are not in their comfort zone. But still , you have to give credit where credit is due , Naniwa took both of them out convincingly . Even though the matches today PvZ weren't really.. stellar (If I had a dollar for every time I saw that warp prism force field + stargate/ warpgate shit..) naniwa still did a good job. Posting with such Korean biasness only makes you look pretty stupid. do you realize they only got to play one game while most korean plays in the open bracket i've stated it in the quoted post, u might missed it oh and the other post is not foreigner biased ? like i said they got the throphy which indeed they did well in "THEIR" tournament but claiming they're soooo good, etc is not yet acceptable i never dismiss their great game what im saying is the condition favours them
If you read my post, you'll see that I mentioned the conditions favoring foreigners. But then again, GSL conditions favor Koreans. Their team houses and training regimens are tailored to the GSL format, whereas for foreigners it's tailored to the MLG, Dreamhack, etc.
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On November 20 2011 14:14 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:12 dartoo wrote:o.0 .... That was not really called for, especially from a coach, and why insult his parents? im assuming this is a joke otherwise lol wat but honestly you can't blame im coach, that was two hours ago right when naniwa won after being a dick to everyone including mlg. emotions were running quite high then.
Of course he can blame the coach. Why should the coach even comment about it? He wasn't there, he didn't play in the game and im 100% sure Nestea can fight his own "battles". Also the coach was at least 10 times as bad mannered saying that than naniwa was.
Also Nestea had went out before the game saying that he would destroy(?) Naniwa and when he failed to do so it was more than appropriate to do a ceremony and tbh thumbs down was probably the most kind thing he could have done.
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On November 20 2011 14:07 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 14:07 Dundron2000 wrote:On November 20 2011 14:03 paintfive wrote:On November 20 2011 14:00 Dundron2000 wrote:
the thing i dont get is how Naniwa can be so crushingly self critical of all his losses and then switches to utter hubris after 2 series vs MVP and Nestea.. its like there is no middle ground what so ever.
and cue the Complexity damage control...
on the plus side ive never been so into a match as the 2nd nestea/nani, hope tomorrow keeps these awesome games going! lol... he beat MVP and Nestea!! id be pretty fuckin proud of myself. yes, and if he was proud of himself without calling his competitor an idiot i dont think anyone would have had a problem with it He didn't call his competitor an idiot. He said the choice to take all his drones off minerals was stupid.
No he didn't say that at all.. he said "I thought he was a genius, but i guess hes an idiot" he didn't say the drone move was idiotic or stupid, he labelled Nestea as an idiot.. it was totally uncalled for.
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EPT
