It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off.
hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol.
Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage.
Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around...
Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game.
Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades.
That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving.
Were YOU watching another game? MKP did have the upper hand ALL GAME long. Did you not see his upgrades? His win was due to holding the upper hand all game and then completely steam rolling Idra at the end. Simple as that.
Dude, his economy was in the toilet and he was dropping constantly in supply. All idra had to do was hold the last push and that was it. He didn't though.
I think you're missing the reasons why MKP's macro looked so bad, you're not looking beyond the numbers:
-Basically, MKP made a quick tech into 3-3 build, sacrificing his production in the start of the game, with the intention of putting it back on on the mid-late game thus ensuring a rollover with massive upgraded marines. -Idra was apparently caught off guard by the quick upgrades -In this situation, Idra's response was to stop MKP's production by sniping supply depots, and to delay MKP's pushes by sniping tanks. -Because of this, MKP was severely supply blocked, and his marine count was held back. This meant MKP could not stop producing marines to make reactors, because he might have been overwhelmed by mutas. -By doing this, however, Idra's mutalisks were forced into small encounters with MKP's heavily upgraded marines, this means muta numbers never went over the top as Idra likes.
The end result of all of this is an apparent weak macro by MKP, when he was actually strangled into that position, you can tell he was actually macroing by looking at his SCV count, despite losing around 50 SCVs to harass he kept the number high, all while attempting to take a 4th even while harassed. All this also meant that Idra had to keep replenishing mutas, which kept his tech back, probably delaying infestors a bit. By the time MKP pushed idra had no counter to MKP's upgraded marines.
Or maybe I'm reading too much into it lol, but that's how I see it. MKP only had an apparent bad macro, but he was actually executing his build really well, he probably could have added barracks though, but he was being stressed by harass.
Everything you said was true. MKP didn't have the time to make reactors due to Idra's constant pressure, but that doesn't excuse him for not making a few barracks instead. Even with that mistake though, Idra made an even bigger mistake falling behind in upgrades and sacrificing his mutas to marines at the end.
yea I agree he couldve thrown down a few raxes but being outside of your comfort zone and having to claw and scrape like that agrees the best of players.
It happens to everyone at masters level in all leagues against that kind of zerg play all the time mkp is human enough to suffer from it.
On October 16 2011 11:16 Turbogangsta wrote: WHY IDRA WHY WHYYYYY QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ /WRISTS PLEASE IDRA POELASE YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE EVIL TERRANS WWWWWWAAAAHHHH IDRA COMON SON
At first I laughed at the sarcastic post, but now I am unsure if this is actually sarcasm since so many IdrA fanboys actually act like this...
it was a srs post it breaks my heart when idra loses but im not blind MKP is one of my favorite terrans and i can see why he won that game. (and i can see why it seems like bullshit too even tho its not it was great play by MKP)
On October 16 2011 11:13 dmnum wrote: Lol @ the people using playing LoL as an argument to discredit the dude. You are ridiculous, cry like little babies when BW elitists say SC2 is a newb game but do the same with with LoL. You should be ashamed, really.
this x1000. sc2 players trying to make fun of LoL players for playing a 'skilless' game makes me laugh.
I guess the over a million people who play LoL are skill-less noobs then.....should just get rid of the LoL section on the TL.net cause it'll dumb down the community.....right?
On October 16 2011 10:34 Icky wrote: Not over yet, and all.. But I have to say, as a casual Starcraft 2 watcher, if Koreans keep winning MLGs I'm just going to stop bothering entirely.
Why, were you not entertained by that game?
Why does it matter where they come from? Was that game not intense and exciting? If a player's nationality is what prevents you from watching esports why even bother?
Some people doesn't enjoy seeing a tourney roster and knowing which players will finish top 6. It's his opinion, are you that intolerant?
There are more than 6 Koreans, and if pool play shows us anything it's that foreigners are more than capable of making it top 6 anyway. SC is about the games, not about where people are from.
You want SC2 to be an e-sport, right? Soccer is all about the games too, yet I don't cheer for barcelona because they are the best team in the world, I cheer for flamengo because they are the team from my country.
Soccer is a team sport, SC2 is more comparable to tennis or golf, Do you perhaps not root for Federer or Tiger Woods?
There's not much point in complaining about people cheering for their own country. The Koreans do the same and no one ever blames them. Like Tasteless was saying, Koreans won't even watch a sport unless Koreans are winning it.
This is simply not true. My father was a Yankees fan ever since he was a teenager in South Korea. He didn't even own a television set. He'd watch the games on horrible reception whenever he had a chance to go to a major city. In an Olympic setting, would South Koreans root for their national team? Of course they would, but the important thing is that they ultimately respect the game.
Whoever you root for is who you choose to root for. What's ridiculous is to say that you're a StarCraft fan and then in the next breath say you blatantly refuse to watch any games with Koreans in it. So basically you are...
1. Being prejudice. Not racist, but prejudice. The best players in the world are Korean. You are refusing to watch the best players simply because they are Korean.
2. Not respecting the game. Refusing to watch games based on reason #1 means you don't care about seeing good games. All you care about is seeing foreigners play.
3. Ignorant. You are denying yourself the opportunity to watch the best StarCraft 2 players in the world.
I'm a soccer fan. When the United States or South Korean national teams are playing, of course I'll cheer in their favor, but when they inevitably get knocked out I don't stop watching the game. I watch it all the way to the finals. Why? Because I respect the game and those who play it on the highest level. The sport takes precedent over the nationalism.
The last thing StarCraft should become is a xenophobic mouthpiece for nationalistic circlejerks. Respect the players. Respect the game. There are good foreigners and there are good Koreans, but if foreign scene can't respect the game, then it will always be subpar to the Korean scene.
Also, the basketball scene in China is getting much better too. Guess what the best selling NBA jersey in China is? If you guessed Yao Ming you are dead wrong.
The best selling NBA jersey in China is Kobe Bryant. Then it's Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson.... Yao Ming is actually #10.
Why the fuck was he a Yankees fan of all teams... in South Korea?
It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off.
hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol.
Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage.
Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around...
Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game.
Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades.
That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving.
Were YOU watching another game? MKP did have the upper hand ALL GAME long. Did you not see his upgrades? His win was due to holding the upper hand all game and then completely steam rolling Idra at the end. Simple as that.
Dude, his economy was in the toilet and he was dropping constantly in supply. All idra had to do was hold the last push and that was it. He didn't though.
I think you're missing the reasons why MKP's macro looked so bad, you're not looking beyond the numbers:
-Basically, MKP made a quick tech into 3-3 build, sacrificing his production in the start of the game, with the intention of putting it back on on the mid-late game thus ensuring a rollover with massive upgraded marines. -Idra was apparently caught off guard by the quick upgrades -In this situation, Idra's response was to stop MKP's production by sniping supply depots, and to delay MKP's pushes by sniping tanks. -Because of this, MKP was severely supply blocked, and his marine count was held back. This meant MKP could not stop producing marines to make reactors, because he might have been overwhelmed by mutas. -By doing this, however, Idra's mutalisks were forced into small encounters with MKP's heavily upgraded marines, this means muta numbers never went over the top as Idra likes.
The end result of all of this is an apparent weak macro by MKP, when he was actually strangled into that position, you can tell he was actually macroing by looking at his SCV count, despite losing around 50 SCVs to harass he kept the number high, all while attempting to take a 4th even while harassed. All this also meant that Idra had to keep replenishing mutas, which kept his tech back, probably delaying infestors a bit. By the time MKP pushed idra had no counter to MKP's upgraded marines.
Or maybe I'm reading too much into it lol, but that's how I see it. MKP only had an apparent bad macro, but he was actually executing his build really well, he probably could have added barracks though, but he was being stressed by harass.
Not saying his macro is bad. Idra was just getting the damage in that he needed. Idra was winning that but began to get sloppy at the end and not be supply efficient. There's a point in the game where he just throws a shit ton of lings into the woodchipper without managing to do much.
Actually the damage he needed to was to take out the third. he made a lot of lings without being able to take that out, leaving them both on equal bases.
So you're blaming Idra for killing stray buildings? I'm really confused...
No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor.
It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off.
hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol.
Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage.
Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around...
Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game.
Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades.
That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving.
Were YOU watching another game? MKP did have the upper hand ALL GAME long. Did you not see his upgrades? His win was due to holding the upper hand all game and then completely steam rolling Idra at the end. Simple as that.
Dude, his economy was in the toilet and he was dropping constantly in supply. All idra had to do was hold the last push and that was it. He didn't though.
I think you're missing the reasons why MKP's macro looked so bad, you're not looking beyond the numbers:
-Basically, MKP made a quick tech into 3-3 build, sacrificing his production in the start of the game, with the intention of putting it back on on the mid-late game thus ensuring a rollover with massive upgraded marines. -Idra was apparently caught off guard by the quick upgrades -In this situation, Idra's response was to stop MKP's production by sniping supply depots, and to delay MKP's pushes by sniping tanks. -Because of this, MKP was severely supply blocked, and his marine count was held back. This meant MKP could not stop producing marines to make reactors, because he might have been overwhelmed by mutas. -By doing this, however, Idra's mutalisks were forced into small encounters with MKP's heavily upgraded marines, this means muta numbers never went over the top as Idra likes.
The end result of all of this is an apparent weak macro by MKP, when he was actually strangled into that position, you can tell he was actually macroing by looking at his SCV count, despite losing around 50 SCVs to harass he kept the number high, all while attempting to take a 4th even while harassed. All this also meant that Idra had to keep replenishing mutas, which kept his tech back, probably delaying infestors a bit. By the time MKP pushed idra had no counter to MKP's upgraded marines.
Or maybe I'm reading too much into it lol, but that's how I see it. MKP only had an apparent bad macro, but he was actually executing his build really well, he probably could have added barracks though, but he was being stressed by harass.
Exactly this. MKP was executing his build and Idra tried his best to stop this build which he managed to do to a certain extent. I think MKP was also caught off guard by Idra's constant harass and aggression which then led to "apparent" bad macro. Idra's macro was really good but I would say his decision making was a little shaky(or he was pushed to making those decisions because of MKP's exceptional build). no tech, no upgrades and constantly harassing but at the same time losing units.
On October 16 2011 11:16 Turbogangsta wrote: WHY IDRA WHY WHYYYYY QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ /WRISTS PLEASE IDRA POELASE YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE EVIL TERRANS WWWWWWAAAAHHHH IDRA COMON SON
At first I laughed at the sarcastic post, but now I am unsure if this is actually sarcasm since so many IdrA fanboys actually act like this...
it was a srs post it breaks my heart when idra loses but im not blind MKP is one of my favorite terrans and i can see why he won that game. (and i can see why it seems like bullshit too even tho its not it was great play by MKP)
i actually ran and locked myself in the bathroom and cried when my favorite football team lost! i feel ya! (yeah that was...some years ago)
They STILL haven't confirmed Bomber as the winner of Pool B, why?
MLG: We'll have the winners of all the pools for you shortly. Bomber, SaSe and PuMa are currently in a three way tie and the winner is being confirmed.
On October 16 2011 10:34 Icky wrote: Not over yet, and all.. But I have to say, as a casual Starcraft 2 watcher, if Koreans keep winning MLGs I'm just going to stop bothering entirely.
Why, were you not entertained by that game?
Why does it matter where they come from? Was that game not intense and exciting? If a player's nationality is what prevents you from watching esports why even bother?
Some people doesn't enjoy seeing a tourney roster and knowing which players will finish top 6. It's his opinion, are you that intolerant?
There are more than 6 Koreans, and if pool play shows us anything it's that foreigners are more than capable of making it top 6 anyway. SC is about the games, not about where people are from.
You want SC2 to be an e-sport, right? Soccer is all about the games too, yet I don't cheer for barcelona because they are the best team in the world, I cheer for flamengo because they are the team from my country.
Soccer is a team sport, SC2 is more comparable to tennis or golf, Do you perhaps not root for Federer or Tiger Woods?
There's not much point in complaining about people cheering for their own country. The Koreans do the same and no one ever blames them. Like Tasteless was saying, Koreans won't even watch a sport unless Koreans are winning it.
This is simply not true. My father was a Yankees fan ever since he was a teenager in South Korea. He didn't even own a television set. He'd watch the games on horrible reception whenever he had a chance to go to a major city. In an Olympic setting, would South Koreans root for their national team? Of course they would, but the important thing is that they ultimately respect the game.
Whoever you root for is who you choose to root for. What's ridiculous is to say that you're a StarCraft fan and then in the next breath say you blatantly refuse to watch any games with Koreans in it. So basically you are...
1. Being prejudice. Not racist, but prejudice. The best players in the world are Korean. You are refusing to watch the best players simply because they are Korean.
2. Not respecting the game. Refusing to watch games based on reason #1 means you don't care about seeing good games. All you care about is seeing foreigners play.
3. Ignorant. You are denying yourself the opportunity to watch the best StarCraft 2 players in the world.
I'm a soccer fan. When the United States or South Korean national teams are playing, of course I'll cheer in their favor, but when they inevitably get knocked out I don't stop watching the game. I watch it all the way to the finals. Why? Because I respect the game and those who play it on the highest level. The sport takes precedent over the nationalism.
The last thing StarCraft should become is a xenophobic mouthpiece for nationalistic circlejerks. Respect the players. Respect the game. There are good foreigners and there are good Koreans, but if foreign scene can't respect the game, then it will always be subpar to the Korean scene.
Also, the basketball scene in China is getting much better too. Guess what the best selling NBA jersey in China is? If you guessed Yao Ming you are dead wrong.
The best selling NBA jersey in China is Kobe Bryant. Then it's Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson.... Yao Ming is actually #10.
Oh god the drama, few people don't want to watch the game if their favorite players are not in it, deal with it. Or you can go a clockwork orange on his ass and force him the games.
EPT
