On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:
On October 16 2011 10:39 MCDayC wrote: That's gonna go down as another amazing ZvT that Idra should have won.
and then the other guy was better and won instead?
Idra should have won it.
But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead.
Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys.
outplayed. simple as that. poor engagements by idra, no upgrades. these are fundamental mistakes.
2-0 mutas 2-1 lings vs 3-3 marines. I count 5 upgrades for idra, 6 for mkp. Yea HUGE difference.
On October 16 2011 10:52 DoomsVille wrote: Oh my god. This thread has totally gone to shit.
I hate when IdrA loses. Fanboys cry imbalance. Anti-fanboys lolololol all night. It's disgusting.
Both players played extremely well. IdrA did make a crucial mistake towards the end that likely cost him the game. If he handled that properly, there is a good chance he would have won.
But he certainly didn't lose because terran is OP. And MKP didn't win because he is lolololol 50x better than IdrA. That was a very even and exciting match.
Now shut up for the love of god.
Seriously. Why are people complaining about him losing when he was totally out-upgraded. MKP went for the long game win with upgrades, Idra didn't. He didn't win, MKP did. The end.
this...
if any other player battled a 3-3 army with 2-0 lings and 2-0 mutas (i think that were his upgrades) nobody would argue about the loss
On October 16 2011 10:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On October 16 2011 10:39 Shurayuki wrote:
On October 16 2011 10:39 MCDayC wrote: That's gonna go down as another amazing ZvT that Idra should have won.
and then the other guy was better and won instead?
Idra should have won it.
But then Marineking outplayed Idra and won it instead.
Today I learned: It's too hard for 90% on TL.net to understand that winning a match does not mean outplaying the opponent. Sheesh... First Huk-Hero, then IdrA-MKP... Unforced errors should not happen but they do happen sometimes. Has nothing to do with being outplayed... srsly guys.
The way I see the game went like a match of chess: Idra was picking picking bishops, towers and knights left and right while managing to lose a few peons. Then he just threw his king at marineking and lost.
It was more like Idra was picking off bishops/towers/knights while MKP had a few pawns heading up to be promoted (3-3 marine/medivac). Idra couldn't stop MKP before his pawns arrived, and MKP promoted some queens and roflstomped.
All he really did was get 3/3 on his marines. His macro was actually terrible but he had 3/3 marines to stim. The only reason he won is because of the power of marines.
This. 3-3 marines won him the game, nothing else. Macro was poor, not a single reactored barracks and he was banking 2k+ minerals the entire time. His micro wasn't even that good tbh. Simply won because marines are too damn good.
No he wasn't banking 2k minerals the entire time, he started banking once he started getting attacked from 2 sides, it's easier to attack than it is to defend most of the time.
Check the replay MKP was above 1500 minerals for the last 5min of the game and never went below 1k at any point and even floated above 2k at the very end. His highest supply was like 150 at some point, 0 reason for that, didnt even have a single reactor.
On your easier to attack then defend point. Idra never floated above like 500 minerals when defending both attacks perfectly. Idra outplayed him most of the game and then had a single bad engage at the end that lost him the game because 3-3 marines are godly good with 6 medivacs.
Idra was sniping all his depots. MKP was supply blocked for a huge span of time.
So you're blaming Idra for killing stray buildings? I'm really confused...
No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor.
It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off.
hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol.
Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage.
Point out how was MKP playing poorly, he defends well against a 3 base zerg(4th base have no drones) when MKP just take his 3rd. Idra lost because he invest in mass units to attack, have nothing to fall back on (hive tech, infestors, no upgrades) => that's why he lose when he cant finish MKP.
I will not comment on this match anymore but anyone who think idra is better player and MKP is not outplaying idra in that last game is delusional fanboyism and do not understand the game at all.
I don't think MKP got outplayed at all. He played as good if not better than IdrA. His micro was just phenomenal. IdrA did a good job with his 2 sometimes 3 pronged attacks, but he ultimately didn't do enough damage.
Don't understand how anyone could say MKP got outplayed in that last game. His strategy obviously revolved around fast upgrades and if he felt he couldnt safely put down the reactors then its up to him he probably made the right call.
On October 16 2011 10:38 TYJ.Aoy wrote: [quote] No he wasn't banking 2k minerals the entire time, he started banking once he started getting attacked from 2 sides, it's easier to attack than it is to defend most of the time.
Check the replay MKP was above 1500 minerals for the last 5min of the game and never went below 1k at any point and even floated above 2k at the very end. His highest supply was like 150 at some point, 0 reason for that, didnt even have a single reactor.
On your easier to attack then defend point. Idra never floated above like 500 minerals when defending both attacks perfectly. Idra outplayed him most of the game and then had a single bad engage at the end that lost him the game because 3-3 marines are godly good with 6 medivacs.
Idra was sniping all his depots. MKP was supply blocked for a huge span of time.
So you're blaming Idra for killing stray buildings? I'm really confused...
No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor.
It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off.
hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol.
Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage.
Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around...
Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game.
Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades.
That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving.
Were YOU watching another game? MKP did have the upper hand ALL GAME long. Did you not see his upgrades? His win was due to holding the upper hand all game and then completely steam rolling Idra at the end. Simple as that.
On October 16 2011 10:55 FryktSkyene wrote: Is it worth it to buy the 4 stream thing? Hae you guys been able to see good games? Like top player games not just open bracket noobs.
Also, how much was it? It it's really worth I will be getting it for next MLG.
Thanks
Are you serious about "open bracket noobs"?
There were as least as many top players in the open bracket than in the pools. And yes there were great games so far on the beta streams.
On October 16 2011 10:55 FryktSkyene wrote: Is it worth it to buy the 4 stream thing? Hae you guys been able to see good games? Like top player games not just open bracket noobs.
Also, how much was it? It it's really worth I will be getting it for next MLG.
Thanks
the open bracket noobs so far have included STC ret / Polt Alive and others from Pool play, worth it IMO but I can't buy it for you so it's up to you =D
On October 16 2011 10:38 TYJ.Aoy wrote: [quote] No he wasn't banking 2k minerals the entire time, he started banking once he started getting attacked from 2 sides, it's easier to attack than it is to defend most of the time.
Check the replay MKP was above 1500 minerals for the last 5min of the game and never went below 1k at any point and even floated above 2k at the very end. His highest supply was like 150 at some point, 0 reason for that, didnt even have a single reactor.
On your easier to attack then defend point. Idra never floated above like 500 minerals when defending both attacks perfectly. Idra outplayed him most of the game and then had a single bad engage at the end that lost him the game because 3-3 marines are godly good with 6 medivacs.
Idra was sniping all his depots. MKP was supply blocked for a huge span of time.
So you're blaming Idra for killing stray buildings? I'm really confused...
No, he's explaining why MKP's macro looked poor.
It didn't look poor, it was poor, simple as that. MKP's own fault for getting his supply depots constantly picked off.
hahaa yea you know theres a fanboy in the house when the other players problems are self inflicted and the the guy he supports lost because Terran op lolol.
Yes I'm a fanboy of Idra's, doesn't change the fact that MKP played poorly and only won because of that last engage.
Your fanboism is clearly showing. Sure you may think that MKP played poor, but what matters is that Idra played worse. Suicide units 2-3 at a time into a tank line with medivacs and marines all around...
Yeah, MKP completely outplayed Idra that game.
Were you watching another game? completely outplay would be clearly having the upper hand the majority of the game and not sustaining much yourself. You are a step ahead. His win was due to idra's sloppiness towards the end and not maintaining upgrades.
That's just how it is with zerg, things can quickly go down the shitter. It's far less forgiving.
MKP played greedy and held off the attack.. Considering zerg wants to stay one base ahead of terran and both were on 3 base (Idra's fourth had like no drones), I'd say he was a little ahead.
On October 16 2011 10:54 TooN wrote: update on incontrol? still winless?
Pretty sure he went 0-5. Going up against Polt in the Championship Bracket, so he's going to get crushed. Not hating, I like Inc, but Polt is a TvP monster.
No, Polt is a TvT monster. Even so, he doesn't need to be a monster to beat Inc.
polt's tvp is statistically his highest matchup on tlpd korea... by a looong shot
On October 16 2011 10:55 FryktSkyene wrote: Is it worth it to buy the 4 stream thing? Hae you guys been able to see good games? Like top player games not just open bracket noobs.
Also, how much was it? It it's really worth I will be getting it for next MLG.
Thanks
Any other MLG, I'd probably say no. But this one was so stacked that your "open bracket noobs" were mostly top players, so it was definitely worth it. Next one will only be more stacked, so I would take it there too.