|
On October 15 2011 01:12 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:08 Sina92 wrote:
about APM im LoL / HoN / Dota: 85% of your APM goes into just spamming rightclick, as you only have ONE unit to control.
Also, SC2 doesn't show your APM (which should be actions per sc2 minutes tbh) anymore.
GG Fruitdealer My question is why would APM even be relevant in a game like LoL or DoTA? You can accomplish the same thing with 20 APM if you time your moves correctly. The fact that there is little to no multitasking in that type of game tells me that APM is relatively useless measurement.
more apm -> more movement -> more unpredictable
also you need more map awareness than in lol as you basically have to watch every fight on the map all the time to know when you need to help/what's happening/use global ults
+pet skills and items that give pets
|
iSEdge 2-1 elfi was final :-)
|
On October 15 2011 01:18 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. Strelok, Sjow, Mana and Elfi is not a bad line-up for europe. It's not like the best NA-players are here 
They are obviously Jetlagged :D
+ Show Spoiler +
|
On October 15 2011 01:23 KoDo wrote:
Edge 2-1 elfi was final :-)
Sure? Bitterdam said it was 2:0 Edge
|
On October 15 2011 01:20 Brainiac wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:18 Maenander wrote:On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. Strelok, Sjow, Mana and Elfi is not a bad line-up for europe. It's not like the best NA-players are here I would say that for the players you listed only Mana is good. Strelok is kinda meh lately. Sjow is unfortunately too slow for this game, and elfi had like one good run in tournaments.
Have you looked at the bracket that Elfi went through to qualify for this tournament and for Guangzhou?
And Sjow has consistently been one of the best foreigners at MLGs.
Strelok has been traveling around for a bit too much probably lately, yeah.
Edit: I'm not saying they're untouchable, but I'd have expected some of them to do a bit better.
|
wow didn't notice that LoL casters have their funny shirts too.
|
On October 15 2011 01:20 Malstriks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:16 WaSa wrote:On October 15 2011 01:13 Malstriks wrote:On October 15 2011 01:12 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:08 hippocritical wrote:On October 15 2011 01:05 Whiteman103 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:02 Malstriks wrote:On October 15 2011 00:56 Asha` wrote:On October 15 2011 00:55 Malstriks wrote:On October 15 2011 00:53 oogieogie wrote:
yea i feel bad for axslav/incontrol/painuser (does he still play?) since they arn't doing well at all..probably missing someone painuser mostly casts now (correct me if I'm wrong). and just a wild guess but I'm guessing Axslav/incontrol don't practice as much as other top foreigners and this is why their results aren't very good. I could 100% be wrong, but this is usually the case (as seen in school/studying, and other sports) Axslav and Incontrol live and practice full time in the EG house... Painuser still plays a little but is predominantly casting for IGN, he did make a pretty respectable run in the MLG open bracket last time out before getting crushed by HerO Source with their practice hours? it has been stated many times on throgh Various show ITG/SOTG. they pratice 11am-3pm then have a break then 4 more hours couple hours later It usually isn't the amount of hours put in, which I guess on the NA ladder after a certain point you can only get so good. The quality of practice aside from Idra and Demuslim in the EG house probably isn't nearly as fearsome as the EU/KR players. So it could just be Axslav vs Strifecro 8 hours worth of practice, which doesn't sound nearly as impressive. Many people are just not that talented. It's not just quality of practice and hours put in, talent is a huge factor. I disagree entirely with this post. I believe anyone can become a professional player in SC2 if they practice correctly and for long enough. If someone practices 15 hours a day for 5 years and they start off with no "talent" (btw what is your definition of talent?) I refuse to believe they could easily become a TOP professional player. He didn't say you can't be a professional player but that talent matters in that it's easier (to learn or) to perform at pro level. If you deny this you deny the very existence of "talent". He never said that talent matters in that it's easier to learn or perform at pro level. He said talent is a "huge factor" in playing at a pro level. As in, if you don't have talent, your ability to perform at a pro level is greatly hindered. I disagree with this. I only agree with the idea that talent makes it easier to learn, but is not a factor in determining who is a better player. That is when methodical practice and hard work come into play.
Apologies then, I misread you/him.
I'm confused now as I'm not sure I agree with either of you 
I mean, there are tons of pro's practicing as hard as other pro's but stay mediocre, and then there are pro's that doesn't practice as much but are better.
I guess it's too muddy to apply talent vs practice to everybody. It's probably different for each individual.
|
Germany442 Posts
|
On October 15 2011 01:18 NuclearJudas wrote:
Love the photos. FD looking like a drug dealer. :D Pretty nice games so far today.
so true. Terrifying! He can take my wallet np!
|
On October 15 2011 01:20 Malstriks wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:16 WaSa wrote:On October 15 2011 01:13 Malstriks wrote:On October 15 2011 01:12 jj33 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:08 hippocritical wrote:On October 15 2011 01:05 Whiteman103 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:02 Malstriks wrote:On October 15 2011 00:56 Asha` wrote:On October 15 2011 00:55 Malstriks wrote:On October 15 2011 00:53 oogieogie wrote:
yea i feel bad for axslav/incontrol/painuser (does he still play?) since they arn't doing well at all..probably missing someone painuser mostly casts now (correct me if I'm wrong). and just a wild guess but I'm guessing Axslav/incontrol don't practice as much as other top foreigners and this is why their results aren't very good. I could 100% be wrong, but this is usually the case (as seen in school/studying, and other sports) Axslav and Incontrol live and practice full time in the EG house... Painuser still plays a little but is predominantly casting for IGN, he did make a pretty respectable run in the MLG open bracket last time out before getting crushed by HerO Source with their practice hours? it has been stated many times on throgh Various show ITG/SOTG. they pratice 11am-3pm then have a break then 4 more hours couple hours later It usually isn't the amount of hours put in, which I guess on the NA ladder after a certain point you can only get so good. The quality of practice aside from Idra and Demuslim in the EG house probably isn't nearly as fearsome as the EU/KR players. So it could just be Axslav vs Strifecro 8 hours worth of practice, which doesn't sound nearly as impressive. Many people are just not that talented. It's not just quality of practice and hours put in, talent is a huge factor. I disagree entirely with this post. I believe anyone can become a professional player in SC2 if they practice correctly and for long enough. If someone practices 15 hours a day for 5 years and they start off with no "talent" (btw what is your definition of talent?) I refuse to believe they could easily become a TOP professional player. He didn't say you can't be a professional player but that talent matters in that it's easier (to learn or) to perform at pro level. If you deny this you deny the very existence of "talent". He never said that talent matters in that it's easier to learn or perform at pro level. He said talent is a "huge factor" in playing at a pro level. As in, if you don't have talent, your ability to perform at a pro level is greatly hindered. I disagree with this. I only agree with the idea that talent makes it easier to learn, but is not a factor in determining who is a better player. That is when methodical practice and hard work come into play.
Its hard to say because usually really talented people are the ones who do not practice very much (stephano comes to mind) extremely extremely talented guy, but he only plays 4 hours a day.
And then theres a lot of people who play 8+ hours a day but may not have the talent as some of the other guys do.
I don't know which one is better, its impossible to predict. But when somebody has a ton of talent and puts in a ton of hard work, you can't deny that he will become the best possible player. (I don't know who to compare this to since sc2 is still very new, most likely MVP)
|
wow edge > elfi. did not expect that :p
cmon elfi dont fall :s
|
On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG.
why is that? IEM has bigger prize pool hasn't it?
|
On October 15 2011 01:20 Brainiac wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:18 Maenander wrote:On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. Strelok, Sjow, Mana and Elfi is not a bad line-up for europe. It's not like the best NA-players are here I would say that for the players you listed only Mana is good. Strelok is kinda meh lately. Sjow is unfortunately too slow for this game, and elfi had like one good run in tournaments.
Nah they all are top players.. Sjow is a proven Code A-level player. Strelok is hitting a rough patch but he can come back at any time and Elfi, though new, he's shown he can win tournaments... Mana, well he's the best protoss in Europe.. so..
|
On October 15 2011 01:26 polybios wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. why is that? IEM has bigger prize pool hasn't it?
MLGS are more prestigious. Competitive people like playing with the best, and outside of korea mlgs have the best players.
|
On October 15 2011 01:28 laharl23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:26 polybios wrote:On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. why is that? IEM has bigger prize pool hasn't it? MLGS are more prestigious. Competitive people like playing with the best, and outside of korea mlgs have the best players.
plus u missing out on the major point. Everyone is going to THIS mlg because its the last chance to earn enough points to be put into seeding for the main event
|
On October 15 2011 01:26 polybios wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. why is that? IEM has bigger prize pool hasn't it?
MLG's a bigger household name, more exciting, etc etc. It's not just about the money.
|
On October 15 2011 01:28 laharl23 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:26 polybios wrote:On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. why is that? IEM has bigger prize pool hasn't it? MLGS are more prestigious. Competitive people like playing with the best, and outside of korea mlgs have the best players.
It's more because of the ranking points for Providence (and Code S spots for the Koreans) than some kind of prestige tbh.
|
On October 15 2011 01:22 ramon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:12 setzer wrote:On October 15 2011 01:08 Sina92 wrote:
about APM im LoL / HoN / Dota: 85% of your APM goes into just spamming rightclick, as you only have ONE unit to control.
Also, SC2 doesn't show your APM (which should be actions per sc2 minutes tbh) anymore.
GG Fruitdealer My question is why would APM even be relevant in a game like LoL or DoTA? You can accomplish the same thing with 20 APM if you time your moves correctly. The fact that there is little to no multitasking in that type of game tells me that APM is relatively useless measurement. more apm -> more movement -> more unpredictable also you need more map awareness than in lol as you basically have to watch every fight on the map all the time to know when you need to help/what's happening/use global ults +pet skills and items that give pets
Pet skills and items that give pets aren't as relevant in League of Legends, most of that stuff is automatic with the most a player having to do is press alt + click to have their pet target something. That last part is more relevant for Dota or HoN though because you can have a large number of pets or converted creeps to control depending on who and how you're playing.
|
On October 15 2011 01:29 LaGTTBloodThirsty wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:28 laharl23 wrote:On October 15 2011 01:26 polybios wrote:On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. why is that? IEM has bigger prize pool hasn't it? MLGS are more prestigious. Competitive people like playing with the best, and outside of korea mlgs have the best players. plus u missing out on the major point. Everyone is going to THIS mlg because its the last chance to earn enough points to be put into seeding for the main event
of course but I'm saying in general, I'd say the last 4-5 mlgs had better players than this tournament.
|
On October 15 2011 01:28 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 01:20 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:18 Maenander wrote:On October 15 2011 01:16 Brainiac wrote:On October 15 2011 01:14 Maenander wrote:
European players are not performing well so far.
The gap between EU and NA seems to close :D You should take into consideration that most of the players in that tournament is medicore at best. The best players are at MLG. Strelok, Sjow, Mana and Elfi is not a bad line-up for europe. It's not like the best NA-players are here I would say that for the players you listed only Mana is good. Strelok is kinda meh lately. Sjow is unfortunately too slow for this game, and elfi had like one good run in tournaments. Nah they all are top players.. Sjow is a proven Code A-level player. Strelok is hitting a rough patch but he can come back at any time and Elfi, though new, he's shown he can win tournaments... Mana, well he's the best protoss in Europe.. so..
How is Sjow proven Code - A level player? He got invited to Code A, and he got stomped in his match in Ro16. He won vs MakaPrime in Ro32, but if you watched those game you'll notice that he lucked out hard. I've said Mana is good, not denying that. Elfi lost to Edge (who the hell is that), I think it says a lot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
