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On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote: Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well.
A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time.
It's not fair to look at MCs mistakes in isolation.
Puma in Game 1 completly failed his all in and yet was able to follow it up with another push that won the game. Completely failed, that is a big mistake, yet it didn't stop him winning the game.
Game 2, Puma lost at least 3 drops for no damage AND had an expansion denied. MC lost 1 warp prism with 4 HT (a big loss) and got EMPed a few times (which is almost impossible to not have happen in PvT at that level.
It's not that MC didn't make mistakes, it's that the mistakes he made were not as major as Puma yet he still got rolled every game.
On August 22 2011 02:53 asdads wrote: For those who say MC did everything right and terran is IMBA just remember that Mana 2-0 Puma.
Seriously, those games against Mana were nearly meaningless. Puma had little at stake, since the seeding is partially randomized at that point. Puma put on a show. Did you see those builds?
On August 22 2011 02:35 Fig wrote: wow so sad when the best toss player in the world can't beat 1/1/1. At least there is bound to be a patch soon Always look for the silver lining.
Im sorry but blizz wont nerf terran. I think we need a new morrow who will just 1/1/1 every game with toss till blizz nerf it or buff toss. I have no idea why all terrans dont do it every game. Is it a morality thing ? Clearly here is a build when decently executed will beat all tosses in the world and there is no good response and doesnt require toss to be 100 times better than terran to hold. PuMA cheesed his way to final win and people are saying he is good ? I saw nothing in this game from Puma that any terran in the world wont be capable off. He is just a random code B scrub who has trouble in korea since he sucks at TvT since everyone is a terran there. Let me see him beet MVP or bomber and I'll agree he is good. All he did is come out of korea to own non koreans .
Ok I hate all this Puma bashing. He was a badass practice partner in BW, practicing with people like Flash. This guy went to NASL open brackets and the NASL finals and WON. He's pretty damn good.
PUma deserves his bashing after what he did to TSL. that's why i don't root for him. Plus he is a boring personality. MC is so charismatic, but cocky to a fault sometimes. I didn't think he prepared for Puma today. And now Puma is in MC's head... It's going to be REALLY hard to overcome that pyschological edge Puma has over MC IMO
BTW I don't dislike EG. they did what is in their best interests. I think PUMA could've handled the team transfer 100% better than he did.
I think you might be the only person that actually thinks the EG-TSL drama was Puma's fault. Congratulations.
EG skewed it to make it look like it was his fault and dumb people fell for it T.T
Yeah man EG made their own player they just signed look bad by trying to turn it into his fault! oh wait...
MC threw away 2 games in which he had a huge lead, playing a pretty strange third game. Anyway he won the award for sickest nerd baller! (All this stuff should at least make up for the prize money diffrence).
On August 22 2011 02:51 Sernyl wrote: MC does 4gate/stargate/DT rush/proxy, wins a tournament = Best player /world Puma does 1 1/1/1 and then a hybrid 1/1/1 with a weird timing, wins a tournament = Most hated person.
Yep.Sure is great.
People need to stop with this shit, badly.
If you see ANY of those protoss openings coming a mile away, you outright win, or come ahead in a huge way. The Terran can tell the protoss at the start of the game "I'm going to build this, and then this, and then this, and I may or may not have a Raven mixed in!" and Protoss still don't know what the fuck to do.
On August 22 2011 02:51 Sernyl wrote: MC does 4gate/stargate/DT rush/proxy, wins a tournament = Best player /world Puma does 1 1/1/1 and then a hybrid 1/1/1 with a weird timing, wins a tournament = Most hated person.
Yep.Sure is great.
what tournament did mc do that in? if you think it was gsl then you're wrong -.-
anyway, i dont blame puma for doing it, its very strong. still shitty that it is so strong.
On August 22 2011 02:46 Andr3 wrote: Why was there no whine during the BW days. Now that I think about it, I wonder if BW pros whined about certain strategies that dominated certain eras. Just like 1-1-1 is "owning" it up again now in SC2.
MC's couple mistakes were too great and those cost him the game :[
Very well played by Puma, I hope to see more matches between these two ^^
People whined in BW as well, it's just everyone knew no balance patches or expansions were coming. And people should have the same mindset in SC2, treat the game as no patches were coming, see how you can improve instead of your race.
This.
Seriously, BW pros in Korea all have an "inner rage" when it seems like the other race has figured out a way to abuse a particular match-up. (Science vessel v lurkers / defilers / ultras... Archon, storm, reaver late game PvZ) etc.
But the Zergs persisted and eventually found out ways of dealing with Terran abusiveness in T v Z. Builds are STILL being trialled and refined even today. BW has been out for... how many years? WHiners will whine, but the wise will wait with patience and try to deal with the bumps in the long roadtrip called starcraft
On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote: Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well.
A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time.
The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead.
Are people still going on about this? PuMa saw MC was going for a heavy gateway centric force with slow upgrades in order to mass units.
Puma just went for the polar opposite of quick tech, mass infrastructure and faster upgrades to counter his army later. To say puma was outmacroed that game shows people have little understanding of the top tier aspects of this game.
On August 22 2011 02:53 asdads wrote: For those who say MC did everything right and terran is IMBA just remember that Mana 2-0 Puma.
And people have responded to this serveral times already. Puma didn't 1-1-1 Mana and he didn't play nearly as well in that match. How hard can it be to read the thread or search before you post something that's already been discussed 100 times.
On August 22 2011 02:52 Spicy Pepper wrote: Zerg was imbalanced and it was right to discuss it. Now protoss is imbalanced, and it should be discussed. Some people just hate imbalance regardless of race. I know this is a tough concept for some people who have blinders on.
Seriously.
Imbalance is bad for the game. GSL is a worse tournament with 60+% of its players playing Terran. Variety is good, constant TvT and TvZ is not.
Ehh.. the only game where I see it as a real game is Game 2. Somehow, despite being down 30 supply the whole game, Puma comes back and wins it. Same thing happened in NASL like 3-4 times. ><"
Puma is really good, I don't think a lesser Terran would've won in that spot.
But the skill cap for Terran is much higher than Protoss. That's why Puma was able to outmicro MC, because his units allow him to. I really think MC should've won that game 2. He outplayed Puma the whole game yet he lost because of the Terran's units benefit that much more from good micro.
On August 22 2011 02:53 bokeevboke wrote: although this thread became trash I enjoy reading it. Can't you guys just relax and let it be the way it is. Its just a game afterall.
EPT
Always look for the silver lining.
. Bit-by-bit evolution...
