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Will we see Inca Rule today?
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Wow is this LR thread ugly, especially after the mannered LR threads we had for the EU invitational and Assembly.
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On August 08 2011 19:51 Sc2Null wrote:
hm..does Doa know Inca has only won 1 ZvP in his entire GSL career of like 10 seasons
still they have zenio in ogs, and zenio is sickly good in zvp
also last pvz of inca was pretty strong macro game
but still
DRGGG
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On August 08 2011 19:51 gehgrfhgrh wrote:
Inca will rape DRG (aka most Overrated Player EVER!)
huh? You meant the opposite right? Inca, the player who got the biggest beating ever in GSL finals, is overrated... not DRG who has yet to prove himself in a tournament outside of GSTL.
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On August 08 2011 19:51 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:51 gehgrfhgrh wrote:
Inca will rape DRG (aka most Overrated Player EVER!) your not familiar with inca's PvZ record
DRG's only can win against Terrans :p
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If someone switched their team shirts I'd have a hard time telling them apart with those glasses :D
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On August 08 2011 19:52 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:51 Telcontar wrote:
If InCa drops from Code A, I'm going to laugh so hard. Laugh? I'd cheer.
Same, after that final against Nestea I wouldn't mind not seeing him anytime soon.
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who was the unfortunate zerg who actually lost that one single game to inca?
edit: just checked, it was leenock.
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On August 08 2011 19:52 Juliette wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:51 Sc2Null wrote:On August 08 2011 19:51 gehgrfhgrh wrote:
Inca will rape DRG (aka most Overrated Player EVER!) your not familiar with inca's PvZ record Hey man, he's won one!
OH MY HE CAN DO IT
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On August 08 2011 19:47 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:45 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:38 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:31 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:24 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:21 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:18 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:15 dani` wrote:
[quote]
Are you saying it is not? In every bo3 TvP it's used at least once by the Terran and it's a win :D Did you read what I said? Remember back when 5 rax reaper was viable (pre reaper nerf)? It was used virtually EVERY game. If the strategy WAS uncounterable it would be used EVERY game. It's not, so you're wrong. Stop whining and get better. Some maps aren't good to 1-1-1 on. Your logic is stupid. You're basically saying, "It's not used in 100% of the games, therefore, it's not uncounterable, l2p". For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it. And it IS used very, very often, with a very high winrate. Maybe you should go tell Puzzle and SangHo to stop whining and get better since I also saw them complaining about it, and they're not even known for QQ. Maybe they should stop QQ? There are numerous examples throughout BROOD WAR history where matchups were considered much one sided, then someone (Boxer, Bisu, JulyZerg, Savior, etc) came along and shook up the entire matchup with something new. But no, modern gamers can't be bothered with that. Let's just cry for nerfs every time a strategy is 'too hard' to counter. Okay, so basically, you're calling upon historical precedent of a different, arguably better-designed game to justify telling pros to shut up and learn to play. You realize that 1-1-1 has been around for a year, right? It's not a hot new strategy that's taking people by surprise. People have had plenty of time to figure out good counters. So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units? Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like. Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work. Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you. Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner! Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully. I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards: 1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players 2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players". Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up.
Sanzenith in his stream-chat bluntly stated that 111 is imba and needs to be nerfed. Sorry, don't have a screenshot, I'm afraid you will have to trust my words on this one...
Could we maybe stop now, PvZ coming up. Maybe we could transition from qq about 11 into qq about broodlord/infestor?
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On August 08 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:47 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:45 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:38 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:31 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:24 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:21 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:18 Ocedic wrote:
[quote]
Did you read what I said? Remember back when 5 rax reaper was viable (pre reaper nerf)? It was used virtually EVERY game. If the strategy WAS uncounterable it would be used EVERY game.
It's not, so you're wrong. Stop whining and get better. Some maps aren't good to 1-1-1 on. Your logic is stupid. You're basically saying, "It's not used in 100% of the games, therefore, it's not uncounterable, l2p". For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it. And it IS used very, very often, with a very high winrate. Maybe you should go tell Puzzle and SangHo to stop whining and get better since I also saw them complaining about it, and they're not even known for QQ. Maybe they should stop QQ? There are numerous examples throughout BROOD WAR history where matchups were considered much one sided, then someone (Boxer, Bisu, JulyZerg, Savior, etc) came along and shook up the entire matchup with something new. But no, modern gamers can't be bothered with that. Let's just cry for nerfs every time a strategy is 'too hard' to counter. Okay, so basically, you're calling upon historical precedent of a different, arguably better-designed game to justify telling pros to shut up and learn to play. You realize that 1-1-1 has been around for a year, right? It's not a hot new strategy that's taking people by surprise. People have had plenty of time to figure out good counters. So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units? Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like. Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work. Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you. Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner! Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully. I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards: 1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players 2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players". Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up. I'm not making shit up. I'm sitting here knowing that I'm right, laughing at how ignorant you are. This is one of those situations where I know something to be a truth, and I'm watching someone act as contrary and aggressive as possible, while crossing his arms telling me to prove that truth - but, your attitude makes me not care enough to bother proving anything to you, so I'm just sitting here, slightly annoyed but mostly amused by your sheer ignorance.
Ah, good old "I'm actually laughing at you" Internet argument. You're still devoid of actual facts to back up anything you say. Good to know :D
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On August 08 2011 19:52 Bagi wrote:
Wow is this LR thread ugly, especially after the mannered LR threads we had for the EU invitational and Assembly.
Lots of Protoss were mad about 1-1-1 earlier. Dunno about other ugliness.
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On August 08 2011 19:51 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:47 Dfgj wrote:On August 08 2011 19:46 fant0m wrote:On August 08 2011 19:43 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 itsjuspeter wrote:On August 08 2011 19:39 graNite wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 Fyzar wrote:
1/1/1 incoming 100% Where is the 1.1.1 now? stop whining protoss, we can beat you without this 1base push too did we ever say you couldn't...? what are you trying to prove, i actually don't mind losing if it's a nice macro game with aggressive strategies like these. boost your ego somewhere else So you get to dictate the 'honorable way' an opponent beats you? Sadly a LOT of SC2 players feel that way. Especially Zerg (and by the way I play Z now, I switched races this summer). People like Psy, Destiny, and Idra think that anyone who comes with a push before 15 minutes isn't playing the game "properly." If you think the skill used by Taeja and required to prepare in game 1 and game 3 was anywhere near comparable you're deluding yourself. In game 3 that's a difficult argument to make. It took more skill to defend than to initiate because Tails was trying to cut corners. If he'd made 3-4 obs and kept vision of the map using them he would've been totally fine. If he'd mixed in DT's he could have counter-harassed. If he'd mixed in some form of stargate tech he could've taken map control. Different builds and tech paths/unit compositions have different drawbacks. When a player fails to address them, and another player abuses the drawbacks, the better player is winning. All kinds of arbitrary arguments about who is more skilled can still be made, they just don't matter.
Oh I'm not comparing Taeje and Tails so much as purely Taeja. Game 3 showed some quite solid multitask, unit control, and overall solid gameplay from him. I thought it was pretty impressive - though it did work better because, as you say, Tails played pretty tech-greedy.
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On August 08 2011 19:52 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:51 gehgrfhgrh wrote:
Inca will rape DRG (aka most Overrated Player EVER!) Inca and his like 11% PvZ win rate right?
Not even sure if its high..like ...he won only 1 game against a zerg out of how many?
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I really want Inca to pull it together, he's talented, he knows how to execute builds and has good micro, he just doesn't know how to play vs z or t. If he figured those out, he'd be a beast.
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On August 08 2011 19:52 gehgrfhgrh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:51 Sc2Null wrote:On August 08 2011 19:51 gehgrfhgrh wrote:
Inca will rape DRG (aka most Overrated Player EVER!) your not familiar with inca's PvZ record DRG's only can win against Terrans :p
I thought huk and naniwa were good protoss
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On August 08 2011 19:50 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:49 gh0un wrote:On August 08 2011 19:41 Beyonder wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Akhee wrote:
Im seeing this micro as so common
even my gold friends can do this o_o
Yeah but to do this while macroing, expanding, multi dropping.. Uhm... Not uhm... You cant do two things at once, you can just do them in quick succession. Multitasking doesnt mean that you can do multiple things at ONCE, it just means that you can do multiple things more or less at the same time without forgetting about them. If he is continously microing his units, there is no room for something else, unless he skips 1 second of micro for 1 second of macro --> this is multitasking. Humans arent really capable of real multitasking except for breathing and thinking at the same time (maybe while scratching their head, but thats it). You think pro terrans arent still macroing between stuttersteps? Im pretty sure they are.
If you dont miss a single stutter step, then no.
Show me a single game in which someone does a stutter step for an extended period of time (without missing a single stutter step), while building units at home.
You wont find one.
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EPT
