Prize Pool so far: $100 thankyou to: Jake Fortescue & Mark Wilkins
if you want you can help us grow our prizepool: donate@thecheekyduck.com
Attention all NA girls! Bee part of the fun!
must:
Bee a girl Bee able to skype Bee on NA server Bee on time
maps are: (order TBA)
Crossfire SE Backwater Gulch Tal'Darim Altar Metalopolis Crevasse Typhon Peaks Xel'Naga Caverns TIME CHANGE!!!
Time and Date:[/b] Sydney (Australia - New South Wales) Saturday, 9 July 2011 at 5:00:00 PM EST UTC+10 hours New York (U.S.A. - New York) Saturday, 9 July 2011 at 3:00:00 AM EDT UTC-4 hours Corresponding UTC (GMT) Saturday, 9 July 2011 at 07:00:00
Maybe you should swing some direct invites to some of the more notable female players who may be unlikely to see this thread! If you can't think of them all you could always use the signup list for the female ESL events.
On June 06 2011 19:34 ThE_OsToJiY wrote: Yo if juan aka sixjax major signs up FYI he isn't a girl no matter how much he tries to convince you guys.
ROFL this had me laughing out loud for a good 2 minutes.
It'd make a great story if a couple were to take advantage of this tournament such that the man played and the woman talked to the girls on skype. The girls would have no idea that they were really playing a man. It he won it would bee sad and if he lost then it would bee more sad.
you should add a donation system along the lines of :
1$ = get the picture of a random girl participating 5$ = get the picture of all girls participating 20$ = get a 10 minutes skype chat with the girl of your choice
would probably generate a surprising prize pool! lol
On June 07 2011 11:05 CursedFeanor wrote: you should add a donation system along the lines of :
1$ = get the picture of a random girl participating 5$ = get the picture of all girls participating 20$ = get a 10 minutes skype chat with the girl of your choice
would probably generate a surprising prize pool! lol
That kind of donation system would require all players involved permission. I really doubt that would be possible.
Especially the 10minutes of Skype Chat. I would say just get this little tournament going. If it is successful. Then plan bigger and brighter next time. You don't need to be super successful on your first attempt. I'd say this is more like testing the waters.
Also I would recommend finding someone/some-people to help you with making a really awesome after thread. To showcase the games and results ( Hint: Have all the games recorded and uploaded to YouTube. I'm sure you could find someone willing to do that).
On June 07 2011 11:05 CursedFeanor wrote: you should add a donation system along the lines of :
1$ = get the picture of a random girl participating 5$ = get the picture of all girls participating 20$ = get a 10 minutes skype chat with the girl of your choice
would probably generate a surprising prize pool! lol
On June 07 2011 11:05 CursedFeanor wrote: you should add a donation system along the lines of :
1$ = get the picture of a random girl participating 5$ = get the picture of all girls participating 20$ = get a 10 minutes skype chat with the girl of your choice
would probably generate a surprising prize pool! lol
This is literally sexist, and it's being encouraged. If there was a male-only tournament, there would be outrage. Any male has the right to enter this tournament, and if you deny him, you are blatantly breaking his right to equality. Shame on you.
On June 08 2011 10:35 IzieBoy wrote: this is dumb. why is the prize pool only $50? it's embarrassing to see tourneys without sponsors
Not every tournament out there will have hundreds of dollars in prizes. If you ever kept in touch with the starcraft/broodwar scene over the last 12 years you would see thousands of small tournaments with similar prizes. This is not dumb at all, and in order for the big events to happen, you need to create a scene with smaller events. Stop having such a terrible attitude.
On June 08 2011 10:35 IzieBoy wrote: this is dumb. why is the prize pool only $50? it's embarrassing to see tourneys without sponsors
I'm happy with small prize pools for these tournaments, they encourage women to get involved and get competitive but doesn't inject enough money in there that they can ignore actual competitive tournaments to play in easier tournaments.
I would love to see girls be able to compete with some of the higher level players and if there's enough incentive to get them involved that's good, if there's too much money in exclusive tournaments though, they'd have little reason to compete with the best because they could compete with easier competition.
So yeah, smaller prize pools are good for these tournaments in my opinion.
girls only tournaments are cool, esl had some girl only tournaments, we need more girls playing sc2 :D
On June 07 2011 11:05 CursedFeanor wrote: you should add a donation system along the lines of :
1$ = get the picture of a random girl participating 5$ = get the picture of all girls participating 20$ = get a 10 minutes skype chat with the girl of your choice
would probably generate a surprising prize pool! lol
On June 08 2011 10:57 FreezerJumps wrote: This is literally sexist, and it's being encouraged. If there was a male-only tournament, there would be outrage. Any male has the right to enter this tournament, and if you deny him, you are blatantly breaking his right to equality. Shame on you.
User was temp banned for this post.
Hope you're trolling. Females are underrepresented in e-sports. This tournament is an effort to give females an opportunity to shine in a male dominated scene. Probably the opposite of sexist jajajaja
On June 08 2011 10:57 FreezerJumps wrote: This is literally sexist, and it's being encouraged. If there was a male-only tournament, there would be outrage. Any male has the right to enter this tournament, and if you deny him, you are blatantly breaking his right to equality. Shame on you.
User was temp banned for this post.
First of all, most sports (professional all the way down to kids leagues) are divided based on gender... so I don't see the problem here. Even if it was sexist, who really cares? This is something extra to encourage more females to play... it isn't directly taking away from you.
You can go make your own male only tournament if you would like... I don't think anyone in support of this tournament will mind if you do that... but just because the largest tournaments allow both males and females doesn't mean that no one else should be allowed to host a tournament exclusively with only one gender.
On June 07 2011 11:05 CursedFeanor wrote: you should add a donation system along the lines of :
1$ = get the picture of a random girl participating 5$ = get the picture of all girls participating 20$ = get a 10 minutes skype chat with the girl of your choice
would probably generate a surprising prize pool! lol
Yeah that won't make this look like a total joke. o_0
OP: How many sign ups are you anticipating? I'd like to try to get my friend to participate and make her train :D
@lzieboy: There have been tournaments with $20 1st prizes with the best players from europe and usa dying to win it for the sake of winning it. Unless it's a huge amount of money, as in something you can make a living off of winning consitantly, it doesn't make a difference if it's 50 dollars or 100 dollars.
Just contributed to prize pool! While I don't like the separation of 'gamers' and 'girl gamers' it happens, and while some may see this as a further separation of the two, O see it bridging the gap by making the gaming part of girl gamers more legit! gl and hf!
I feel that if this was streamed and decently promoted on different sites you could make a decent amount of cash of the Ads and increase the prize pool that way. The enigma of girls playing video games is sure to attract many a nerd
On June 08 2011 10:57 FreezerJumps wrote: This is literally sexist, and it's being encouraged. If there was a male-only tournament, there would be outrage. Any male has the right to enter this tournament, and if you deny him, you are blatantly breaking his right to equality. Shame on you.
User was temp banned for this post.
duuuude grow up. all olympic events ever are 'literally sexist' as well. men's and women's washrooms are literally sexist.
the pro gaming scene is incredibly male dominated; do you think there are a lot of girls who want to go to a lan event with 2000 guys and be the only girl there? are you capable of understanding why that's not a comfortable environment?
On June 08 2011 10:57 FreezerJumps wrote: This is literally sexist, and it's being encouraged. If there was a male-only tournament, there would be outrage. Any male has the right to enter this tournament, and if you deny him, you are blatantly breaking his right to equality. Shame on you.
User was temp banned for this post.
You've never watched sports in your entire life, have you? In most sports there are female and male teams. This is mainly because girls tend to have a lower maximum physical strenght than males. In starcraft girls are horribly underrepresented, and this is a good move towards getting more ladies in the competition I think like 3% of TL is female.
Hello, cool tournament but you misspelled a few words in your OP. "bee" should be "be" and the usual spelling for "torny" is "tourney." I'm sorry if this seems rude or anything but I figured it would be good to make it look as professional as possible!
I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
On June 09 2011 02:11 Odal wrote: Hello, cool tournament but you misspelled a few words in your OP. "bee" should be "be" and the usual spelling for "torny" is "tourney." I'm sorry if this seems rude or anything but I figured it would be good to make it look as professional as possible!
I don't think she misspelled it, she is a Bee Duck after all. And she has an accent and situated from the country down unda.
I dont know if this has been said, but "bee" is spelled be
For the post containing the addressing of the split of male/female cups. Check out the interview with some of the girls from broodwar (dunno where it is now), here the girls comment that they dont have the stamina of the boys and they are therefore unable to train as much.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
Women CAN play with everyone else. The point is that they don't want men playing WITH the women in this tourney.
There is a difference.
Simply on average, there are extremely few women good enough to compete in tourney play. If they allowed anyone to join, then 90% of them would get crushed out in the first rounds.
On the other hand, if the best women decided to sign up for an online tourney or even something like MLG, nobody is stopping them.
This is no more unfair than doing one of those "gold league and down" tourneys.
here the girls comment that they dont have the stamina of the boys and they are therefore unable to train as much
That sounds like they are using gender as an excuse for not wanting to train as much nor taking the game as seriously. If someone wishes to compete at a professional level they should train accordingly.
Why do i laugh so hard when i read most of these threads... i laugh because people try to put something on BLAST that they don't understand. This is a WOMEN'S TOURNEY ... I feel women and men should be in same tourneys to really show off there skill I don't think a divider *well atleast not in esports* (maybe in football or something like that) is needed. BUT the women scene isn't that strong lets be honest... so if this helps get the women in the leagues with the men competing in higher levels then LET IT BE DONE. Stop hating on something that is bettering esports for both men and women... i hate the internet sometimes.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
Women CAN play with everyone else. The point is that they don't want men playing WITH the women in this tourney.
There is a difference.
Simply on average, there are extremely few women good enough to compete in tourney play. If they allowed anyone to join, then 90% of them would get crushed out in the first rounds.
On the other hand, if the best women decided to sign up for an online tourney or even something like MLG, nobody is stopping them.
This is no more unfair than doing one of those "gold league and down" tourneys.
The main issue is that the tournaments are based on something as irrelevant as gender instead of their actual skill as a player.
On June 09 2011 04:10 Odal wrote:The main issue is that the tournaments are based on something as irrelevant as gender instead of their actual skill as a player.
We were talking about "Gold and Under Tournaments" here. Let me rephrase then:
"The main issue is that the tournaments are based on something as irrelevant as ladder division instead of their actual skill as a player."
On June 09 2011 04:10 Odal wrote:The main issue is that the tournaments are based on something as irrelevant as gender instead of their actual skill as a player.
We were talking about "Gold and Under Tournaments" here. Let me rephrase then:
"The main issue is that the tournaments are based on something as irrelevant as ladder division instead of their actual skill as a player."
Does that sound about right then?
Ladder division is the most simple way to judge a person's skill. Checking for a vagina, is not.
User was warned for this post
Edit: People can ask for pictures of tits from players but me and the other guy having a civil discussion get a warning?
On June 09 2011 04:10 Odal wrote:The main issue is that the tournaments are based on something as irrelevant as gender instead of their actual skill as a player.
We were talking about "Gold and Under Tournaments" here. Let me rephrase then:
"The main issue is that the tournaments are based on something as irrelevant as ladder division instead of their actual skill as a player."
Does that sound about right then?
Ladder division is the most simple way to judge a person's skill. Checking for a vagina, is not.
User was warned for this post
Edit: People can ask for pictures of tits from players but me and the other guy having a civil discussion get a warning?
The poster above made a joke, from what I tell. You got warned for continuing a debate which simply does not belong here and that repeats itself over and over again in any announcement of a female only tournament. If you want to voice your opinion on it, you are welcome to write a blog.
Everytime I see a tourney thread for females only I get the feeling that if I was a girl, I'd stay away from TL as much as possible, or at least hide the fact.
On topic: I love bees. If I had extra cash to throw around I'd donate just because a bee duck trophy is ridiculously awesome.
You guys don't get it. This tourney isn't about finding the most skilled player on the NA server. That's what an IPL or MLG is for.
This is about encouraging women to compete. This is a great way for them to meet other female gamers with similar interests. This is to help them break into a very male dominated scene. It is no different than IPL wanting to foster the NA scene by only allowing NA competitors at first.
What the hell is wrong with some of you? Why must you shit on someone doing something good for the community?
Keep up the good work CheekyDuck.
Unrelated: Odal has a good point. Why does he get warned for expressing an opinion when the people calling for tit pics and prostitution don't? Deal with all of the inappropriateness or none of it. But don't go halfway...
Would be very nice, if it succeeds. GLHF! I'm sure a lot of viewers will gather, because it would be a quite unusual type of event. There should be more of those, but it's very hard to keep them valid.
You should post a list of the current participants up in the OP as it would be fun to see who is signing up. Also it would act as another layer of detection for fraudulent players trying to cheat the system! If someone is know to not be a female player someone might let you know about it!
Why are some of you more worried about being amateur detectives than the actual tournament admin is? If she screens someone and thinks they are fine then so be it. I'm sure her method is good enough. It's not like 50 guys are going to try to sneak their way into this...
I hope you have casting experience. I'm interested to watch but if the production and commentary isn't there it can't hold my attention for more than a minute. If it's good I'll definitely check it out.
On June 09 2011 10:36 Chill wrote: I hope you have casting experience. I'm interested to watch but if the production and commentary isn't there it can't hold my attention for more than a minute. If it's good I'll definitely check it out.
It doesn't work that way, Chill. You have to check it out before you can know if it's good.
I think it could be fun, surely depends on the live commentary. The simple fact that girls are playing isn't particularly interesting in itself.
On June 09 2011 10:16 KiWiKaKi wrote: i approve this
then it shall be... :D lol
No I really hope this does well I want to meet the women of SC2 I think its gonna be great only girl I have played in masters at one time was GosuGirl I think her name was, that was the only girl ive played in SC2 at a master league. I hope it goes well and i wish you GL .. if u need some help i will gladly help pm me if needed :D
On June 09 2011 03:39 BeefyKnight wrote: Phraxa if that post is legit its a REALLY bad idea to make all your contact info public like that (I didn't want to quote it for obvious reasons)
Great idea, 100% support female tournys. Hope you host more!
LOLLLLLLLL. Oh wow, I'm so sorry, I thought I sent it to the guy in a private message. Jesus I must've been tired, good thing I checked back.
On June 06 2011 18:43 CheekyDuck wrote: Time and Date:
Sydney (Australia - New South Wales) Saturday, 9 July 2011 at 10:00:00 AM EST Guatemala (Guatemala) Friday, 8 July 2011 at 6:00:00 PM CST Corresponding UTC (GMT) Saturday, 9 July 2011 at 00:00:00
Out of curiosity, what does Guatemala have to do with this tournament? o.O
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
This is gona bee good. Ill bee tuning in on the live stream. I'll bee leaving sexism discussion out of my post. I'll bee interested to see the skill level. No doubt above mine... bee
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 09:59 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 03:41 vOdToasT wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:46 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
Good luck girls, hope someone finally breaks through like Tossgirl did in the BW scene! (better hopefully). Been a long long wait for a strong female player
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 09:59 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 03:41 vOdToasT wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:46 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
So in other words, organizations like FIBA, the swedish elite league for hockey or MLS shouldn't exist because there are no physical limitations preventing those players from playing in the NBA, NHL or premier league?
This is no different than a gold-only tournament, German-only tournament or Zerg-only tournament. It's just a fun event. Not every event has to be all-enclusive or playing at the highest level.
And this tournament isn't about creating a network of tournaments that creates sustainable income for women. This is about getting more women involved in esports and starcraft 2 in general. And even if we one day have SC2 tournaments for women that have prize pools in the thousands, and sponsorships and teams... what is so wrong with that?
I mean all of that exists in CS. People want to watch it. Everyone wins. Why the hell do you have a problem with it?
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 09:59 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 03:41 vOdToasT wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:46 CheekyDuck wrote: [quote]
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
So in other words, organizations like FIBA, the swedish elite league for hockey or MLS shouldn't exist because there are no physical limitations preventing those players from playing in the NBA, NHL or premier league?
There are physical limitations for those sports, I thought these comparisons had been put down, it's not the same.
On June 10 2011 01:25 Chill wrote: This is no different than a gold-only tournament, German-only tournament or Zerg-only tournament. It's just a fun event. Not every event has to be all-enclusive or playing at the highest level.
I don't think so Chill, because being a woman doesn't dictate you to a specific skill level like "Gold-only", it doesn't dictate you to a specific race like "Zerg only" and it doesn't dictate you to a specific region like "German-only". Now, for those individually, a Gold-only tournament would generally be more of a for-fun tournament and boast very small prize pools, which I'm fine with for women's tournaments, if they're around or under a $200-300 prize pool, I don't think it's a big deal.
For a Zerg-only tournament, everyone is on the same playing field and the goal is to find the best Zerg which is actually a title that only restricts the other races because they aren't relevant to the point of the tournament, but once again, it won't have any substantial prize pool.
Now, a german-only tournament is slightly different, because it's region dependent, just like a NA tournament would be region dependent with the point being to find the best player in a region which can be helpful for regional teams and for international events like WCG where you select representatives from each nation.
I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
On June 10 2011 01:28 DoomsVille wrote: And this tournament isn't about creating a network of tournaments that creates sustainable income for women. This is about getting more women involved in esports and starcraft 2 in general. And even if we one day have SC2 tournaments for women that have prize pools in the thousands, and sponsorships and teams... what is so wrong with that?
I mean all of that exists in CS. People want to watch it. Everyone wins. Why the hell do you have a problem with it?
Just going to add, there's nothing wrong with THIS. This is about getting more women involved in eSports and Starcraft 2 in general.
The other part is "wrong" because it would create sustainable income on the merit of being a female in a game where there are no notable physical limitations. This issue has been mirrored in Poker, with men entering women's poker tournaments and the same "It's to get more women involved" being raised.
In the end, the issue would be that women would be able to make more money by being the best than men, but they'd have no reason to be the best while male players would. You'd get into a situation where you'd have to be much better than your female counterpart at Starcraft to make equal money, which is the only thing I see as problematic.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 09:59 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 03:41 vOdToasT wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:46 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:43 StarStruck wrote: Cheeky I think the trophy should be pink. O;
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
? This is a 50 tourney. I dunno, I haven't seen any huge problems.
I'm not sure how I feel about being able to sustain yourself, but I see these right now as a promotional sort of thing--like gold or diamond tourneys. It just encourages people to keep playing. In this case the targeted demographic is female.
Invites for females is wrong? How so? Let's say a female is high masters and is doing well in these events. I see no problem with her being picked over other high masters player for a low level invitational--not only would it likely be better promotion for the tournament, it would be beneficial female exposure. It's better, to me at least, than some masters player simply being friends with the tournament organizer.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 09:59 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 03:41 vOdToasT wrote: [quote]
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
So in other words, organizations like FIBA, the swedish elite league for hockey or MLS shouldn't exist because there are no physical limitations preventing those players from playing in the NBA, NHL or premier league?
There are physical limitations for those sports, I thought these comparisons had been put down, it's not the same.
On June 10 2011 01:25 Chill wrote: This is no different than a gold-only tournament, German-only tournament or Zerg-only tournament. It's just a fun event. Not every event has to be all-enclusive or playing at the highest level.
I don't think so Chill, because being a woman doesn't dictate you to a specific skill level like "Gold-only", it doesn't dictate you to a specific race like "Zerg only" and it doesn't dictate you to a specific region like "German-only". Now, for those individually, a Gold-only tournament would generally be more of a for-fun tournament and boast very small prize pools, which I'm fine with for women's tournaments, if they're around or under a $200-300 prize pool, I don't think it's a big deal.
For a Zerg-only tournament, everyone is on the same playing field and the goal is to find the best Zerg which is actually a title that only restricts the other races because they aren't relevant to the point of the tournament, but once again, it won't have any substantial prize pool.
Now, a german-only tournament is slightly different, because it's region dependent, just like a NA tournament would be region dependent with the point being to find the best player in a region which can be helpful for regional teams and for international events like WCG where you select representatives from each nation.
I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
a) You're telling me there are 0 physical limitations to getting better in SC2? You're telling me handspeed is irrelevant? You're telling me hand-eye coordination is irrevelant? You can't just become the best player in the world by training hard. You also have to be physically capable of it. I will never have 200+ apm... my hands just can't move that fast. Fact is, there are physical limitations in SC2 just like with any other sport. Should there not be different chess leagues around the world because there are no physical limitations?
b) Your argument about why german-only competitions are ok and female-only competitions aren't is completely illogical. And no, it isn't because I don't comprehend. The ESL doesn't run german-only tournaments because they want to find a player for WCG or because they are trying to help regional teams. They do it because there is a market for it (the german people). And if there is one day a market for female-only tournaments, then there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't exist. Its an "everyone wins" situation.
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 09:59 CheekyDuck wrote: [quote]
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
So in other words, organizations like FIBA, the swedish elite league for hockey or MLS shouldn't exist because there are no physical limitations preventing those players from playing in the NBA, NHL or premier league?
There are physical limitations for those sports, I thought these comparisons had been put down, it's not the same.
On June 10 2011 01:25 Chill wrote: This is no different than a gold-only tournament, German-only tournament or Zerg-only tournament. It's just a fun event. Not every event has to be all-enclusive or playing at the highest level.
I don't think so Chill, because being a woman doesn't dictate you to a specific skill level like "Gold-only", it doesn't dictate you to a specific race like "Zerg only" and it doesn't dictate you to a specific region like "German-only". Now, for those individually, a Gold-only tournament would generally be more of a for-fun tournament and boast very small prize pools, which I'm fine with for women's tournaments, if they're around or under a $200-300 prize pool, I don't think it's a big deal.
For a Zerg-only tournament, everyone is on the same playing field and the goal is to find the best Zerg which is actually a title that only restricts the other races because they aren't relevant to the point of the tournament, but once again, it won't have any substantial prize pool.
Now, a german-only tournament is slightly different, because it's region dependent, just like a NA tournament would be region dependent with the point being to find the best player in a region which can be helpful for regional teams and for international events like WCG where you select representatives from each nation.
I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
a) You're telling me there are 0 physical limitations to getting better in SC2? You're telling me handspeed is irrelevant? You're telling me hand-eye coordination is irrevelant? You can't just become the best player in the world by training hard. You also have to be physically capable of it. I will never have 200+ apm... my hands just can't move that fast. Fact is, there are physical limitations in SC2 just like with any other sport. Should there not be different chess leagues around the world because there are no physical limitations?
b) Your argument about why german-only competitions are ok and female-only competitions aren't is completely illogical. And no, it isn't because I don't comprehend. The ESL doesn't run german-only tournaments because they want to find a player for WCG or because they are trying to help regional teams. They do it because there is a market for it (the german people). And if there is one day a market for female-only tournaments, then there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't exist. Its an "everyone wins" situation.
Just to clarify, he meant physical limitation between genders, not that the sport itself had a physical requirement as a whole. And not being able to hold 200 apm means you probably have some sort of medical problem, not that you just simply aren't good enough. Can we take this discussion somewhere else?
On June 09 2011 02:57 LadyRevenge wrote: I am confused as to why there must be a seperate tournament. Why can't women play with everyone else? Why does gender matter? I feel this promotes sexism and further implies that women can't compete with men. Women are allowed to compete in other tournaments, there is no need to increase the gender gap and imply that women do not have the potential to compete against men. Furthermore, if this tournament was to be taken seriously I feel the original post should have been more professional.
I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 09:59 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 03:41 vOdToasT wrote:
On June 07 2011 09:46 CheekyDuck wrote: [quote]
I thought so too, but i was told that would be too sexist. lol.
You make a female only tournament and worry about sexism, lol.
that was the joke =/
LadyRevenge: something is wrong with you.
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
? This is a 50 tourney. I dunno, I haven't seen any huge problems.
I'm not sure how I feel about being able to sustain yourself, but I see these right now as a promotional sort of thing--like gold or diamond tourneys. It just encourages people to keep playing. In this case the targeted demographic is female.
Invites for females is wrong? How so? Let's say a female is high masters and is doing well in these events. I see no problem with her being picked over other high masters player for a low level invitational--not only would it likely be better promotion for the tournament, it would be beneficial female exposure. It's better, to me at least, than some masters player simply being friends with the tournament organizer.
I've said numerous times, very specifically, that I'm fine with this tournament. I am fine with these tournaments in general right now, but I have a lot of respect for players like Megumi who don't like them or competing in them.
As for the other point, something being beneficial for female exposure should be based on their merit as a player, not because they're a female, if some Masters player gets invited because they're the friend of the tournament organizer, that's wrong too, this is why I generally don't like invitational only, or invitational "mainly" tournaments.
If a female player has never competed in an open tournament, then I'd be kind of reluctant to think it's fair to invite them based on performance in a female only tournament in comparison to someone who posts somewhat decent results in open tournaments because there is no point of comparison. If they both have competed in open tournaments and posted similar results in open tournaments, that I'd be fine with either pick. More specifically, the high masters guy couldn't post the same results in the tournaments she played it, but she could have done the same in the tournaments he played in based on her merit as a player.
On June 10 2011 01:36 Mordiford wrote: I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
You're right, it's not identical. But it's close enough so who cares. It's a fun tournament, this isn't GSL or something.
On June 10 2011 01:36 Mordiford wrote: I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
You're right, it's not identical. But it's close enough so who cares. It's a fun tournament, this isn't GSL or something.
I agree with you!
I don't know why this is an issue, I've said this tournament is fine and dandy...
Because it's not the GSL or something, I've only responded to the other guy in saying that anything close to the GSL for women would be problematic.
On June 09 2011 03:05 DamageControL wrote: [quote] I'll agree with the last part.
For the first part: when there is a gender gap, we tend to create a separate league for the other gender. This is a trend not just in starcraft but in real sports as well. Everyone recognizes that women have the potential to compete against men but because I think there are real barriers to that happening (i.e. harassment, social discouragement) I don't see the problem with creating a separate league here. There ARE barriers they face that men do not.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:04 LadyRevenge wrote: [quote]
Thank you for proving how incredibly unprofessional you are. Sexism is not a joke and there is nothing wrong with me simply because of my opinion on this matter.
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
So in other words, organizations like FIBA, the swedish elite league for hockey or MLS shouldn't exist because there are no physical limitations preventing those players from playing in the NBA, NHL or premier league?
There are physical limitations for those sports, I thought these comparisons had been put down, it's not the same.
On June 10 2011 01:25 Chill wrote: This is no different than a gold-only tournament, German-only tournament or Zerg-only tournament. It's just a fun event. Not every event has to be all-enclusive or playing at the highest level.
I don't think so Chill, because being a woman doesn't dictate you to a specific skill level like "Gold-only", it doesn't dictate you to a specific race like "Zerg only" and it doesn't dictate you to a specific region like "German-only". Now, for those individually, a Gold-only tournament would generally be more of a for-fun tournament and boast very small prize pools, which I'm fine with for women's tournaments, if they're around or under a $200-300 prize pool, I don't think it's a big deal.
For a Zerg-only tournament, everyone is on the same playing field and the goal is to find the best Zerg which is actually a title that only restricts the other races because they aren't relevant to the point of the tournament, but once again, it won't have any substantial prize pool.
Now, a german-only tournament is slightly different, because it's region dependent, just like a NA tournament would be region dependent with the point being to find the best player in a region which can be helpful for regional teams and for international events like WCG where you select representatives from each nation.
I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
a) You're telling me there are 0 physical limitations to getting better in SC2? You're telling me handspeed is irrelevant? You're telling me hand-eye coordination is irrevelant? You can't just become the best player in the world by training hard. You also have to be physically capable of it. I will never have 200+ apm... my hands just can't move that fast. Fact is, there are physical limitations in SC2 just like with any other sport. Should there not be different chess leagues around the world because there are no physical limitations?
b) Your argument about why german-only competitions are ok and female-only competitions aren't is completely illogical. And no, it isn't because I don't comprehend. The ESL doesn't run german-only tournaments because they want to find a player for WCG or because they are trying to help regional teams. They do it because there is a market for it (the german people). And if there is one day a market for female-only tournaments, then there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't exist. Its an "everyone wins" situation.
Just to clarify, he meant physical limitation between genders, not that the sport itself had a physical requirement as a whole. And not being able to hold 200 apm means you probably have some sort of medical problem, not that you just simply aren't good enough. Can we take this discussion somewhere else?
No he didn't. Re-read what he wrote. And I was exaggerating about the 200 apm.. I was just trying to point out that not everyone has the handspeed/accuracy to compete with the best of the best regardless of training (and this is a fact).
Anyways, yea we should end this discussion. This discussion has no place until some of the tournaments Mordiford doesn't agree with actually start to pop up.
I'm just going to end with, I hope this is a success and it leads to other bigger/more badass tournaments.
There are only the barriers we create for ourselves. There is no need to advertise that we are female. I am relatively sure no one really cares if I am female or not. It doesn't matter. My gender does not affect my gameplay.
No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote:
On June 09 2011 23:08 CheekyDuck wrote: [quote]
my opinion is that your opinion is dumb. Your username is sexist btw and a joke.
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
So in other words, organizations like FIBA, the swedish elite league for hockey or MLS shouldn't exist because there are no physical limitations preventing those players from playing in the NBA, NHL or premier league?
There are physical limitations for those sports, I thought these comparisons had been put down, it's not the same.
On June 10 2011 01:25 Chill wrote: This is no different than a gold-only tournament, German-only tournament or Zerg-only tournament. It's just a fun event. Not every event has to be all-enclusive or playing at the highest level.
I don't think so Chill, because being a woman doesn't dictate you to a specific skill level like "Gold-only", it doesn't dictate you to a specific race like "Zerg only" and it doesn't dictate you to a specific region like "German-only". Now, for those individually, a Gold-only tournament would generally be more of a for-fun tournament and boast very small prize pools, which I'm fine with for women's tournaments, if they're around or under a $200-300 prize pool, I don't think it's a big deal.
For a Zerg-only tournament, everyone is on the same playing field and the goal is to find the best Zerg which is actually a title that only restricts the other races because they aren't relevant to the point of the tournament, but once again, it won't have any substantial prize pool.
Now, a german-only tournament is slightly different, because it's region dependent, just like a NA tournament would be region dependent with the point being to find the best player in a region which can be helpful for regional teams and for international events like WCG where you select representatives from each nation.
I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
a) You're telling me there are 0 physical limitations to getting better in SC2? You're telling me handspeed is irrelevant? You're telling me hand-eye coordination is irrevelant? You can't just become the best player in the world by training hard. You also have to be physically capable of it. I will never have 200+ apm... my hands just can't move that fast. Fact is, there are physical limitations in SC2 just like with any other sport. Should there not be different chess leagues around the world because there are no physical limitations?
b) Your argument about why german-only competitions are ok and female-only competitions aren't is completely illogical. And no, it isn't because I don't comprehend. The ESL doesn't run german-only tournaments because they want to find a player for WCG or because they are trying to help regional teams. They do it because there is a market for it (the german people). And if there is one day a market for female-only tournaments, then there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't exist. Its an "everyone wins" situation.
Just to clarify, he meant physical limitation between genders, not that the sport itself had a physical requirement as a whole. And not being able to hold 200 apm means you probably have some sort of medical problem, not that you just simply aren't good enough. Can we take this discussion somewhere else?
No he didn't. Re-read what he wrote. And I was exaggerating about the 200 apm.. I was just trying to point out that not everyone has the handspeed/accuracy to compete with the best of the best regardless of training (and this is a fact).
Anyways, yea we should end this discussion. This discussion has no place until some of the tournaments Mordiford doesn't agree with actually start to pop up.
I'm just going to end with, I hope this is a success and it leads to other bigger/more badass tournaments.
I clearly meant physical limitations between genders since that was my whole point.
On June 09 2011 23:47 DamageControL wrote: [quote] No they aren't. I wouldn't want to be in a community where I was sexually harassed. At the very least the increased stigma for a female playing a video game is real. Sure, guys might be seen as "nerdy" but I see gaming guys as generally more mainstream than gaming girls.
At the end of the day, I'm not sure why this is harmful to the cause of women in gaming. Let's say there are females out there who are incredibly good. This is a way they can showcase their skills to get picked up by pro teams. You may want everything to be "equal" with male gamers, but think of this as a sort of balance I guess--to make up for the higher barriers that women face.
Even if it was harmful, though, I think the harm would be fairly minimal since this tourney is pretty small and casual.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but since the roll has already started... whatever.
I think it's slightly silly to say that a woman would get picked up by a pro team based on their performance in a female only tournament because there is no level of talent to judge against other than the other females they're playing against, if a team did pick them up, it would likely be for a female division which is kind of pointless at this point and would likely be for show. If a player gets picked up by a pro team, it'll be on their merit against actual pros, in tournaments where the requirement is to be good as opposed to being a specific gender.
I have problem with these tournaments at this level, while the prize pools remain small but to say that it could be a platform for recruitment for a pro team doesn't make sense to me.
On June 10 2011 00:40 LadyRevenge wrote: [quote]
And you imply that you are more expensive than a mothership and therefore a whore.
Let's keep it civil.
Right, I didn't mean based on this tournament alone. Nor would female only competition be the only place a female could get exposure. However, let's keep in mind that this community is based, in large part, on invitations. Because of that the more exposure a player gets the better. Perhaps tournaments like this alone would do nothing but if a player gets noticed they could be seen by pro/semi-pro teams or smaller tournaments and get invited. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but I don't so how it would HURT the cause.
If it's for the novelty of being female, that's wrong as well and I wouldn't support it. If it's on their skill that they get an invite to a bigger tournament, then it'll be on their performance in an existing open tournament where they compete with no restrictions based on gender, anything else would be quite wrong in my opinion, a girl getting invited to an invitational tournament based on their results in a female only tournament over any top-mid-low tier pro would be really stupid in my opinion.
Like I said, these tournaments can encourage women to get involved, which is fine, but I'm starting to slowly see the prize pools in some of these increase and that's something I don't want to see. It's a good tool to push women into the scene, but you shouldn't be able to sustain yourself as a competitor playing against limited opponents when there's no reason to believe you have any physical limitations barring you from competing against a wider array of opponents.
So in other words, organizations like FIBA, the swedish elite league for hockey or MLS shouldn't exist because there are no physical limitations preventing those players from playing in the NBA, NHL or premier league?
There are physical limitations for those sports, I thought these comparisons had been put down, it's not the same.
On June 10 2011 01:25 Chill wrote: This is no different than a gold-only tournament, German-only tournament or Zerg-only tournament. It's just a fun event. Not every event has to be all-enclusive or playing at the highest level.
I don't think so Chill, because being a woman doesn't dictate you to a specific skill level like "Gold-only", it doesn't dictate you to a specific race like "Zerg only" and it doesn't dictate you to a specific region like "German-only". Now, for those individually, a Gold-only tournament would generally be more of a for-fun tournament and boast very small prize pools, which I'm fine with for women's tournaments, if they're around or under a $200-300 prize pool, I don't think it's a big deal.
For a Zerg-only tournament, everyone is on the same playing field and the goal is to find the best Zerg which is actually a title that only restricts the other races because they aren't relevant to the point of the tournament, but once again, it won't have any substantial prize pool.
Now, a german-only tournament is slightly different, because it's region dependent, just like a NA tournament would be region dependent with the point being to find the best player in a region which can be helpful for regional teams and for international events like WCG where you select representatives from each nation.
I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
a) You're telling me there are 0 physical limitations to getting better in SC2? You're telling me handspeed is irrelevant? You're telling me hand-eye coordination is irrevelant? You can't just become the best player in the world by training hard. You also have to be physically capable of it. I will never have 200+ apm... my hands just can't move that fast. Fact is, there are physical limitations in SC2 just like with any other sport. Should there not be different chess leagues around the world because there are no physical limitations?
b) Your argument about why german-only competitions are ok and female-only competitions aren't is completely illogical. And no, it isn't because I don't comprehend. The ESL doesn't run german-only tournaments because they want to find a player for WCG or because they are trying to help regional teams. They do it because there is a market for it (the german people). And if there is one day a market for female-only tournaments, then there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't exist. Its an "everyone wins" situation.
Just to clarify, he meant physical limitation between genders, not that the sport itself had a physical requirement as a whole. And not being able to hold 200 apm means you probably have some sort of medical problem, not that you just simply aren't good enough. Can we take this discussion somewhere else?
No he didn't. Re-read what he wrote. And I was exaggerating about the 200 apm.. I was just trying to point out that not everyone has the handspeed/accuracy to compete with the best of the best regardless of training (and this is a fact).
Anyways, yea we should end this discussion. This discussion has no place until some of the tournaments Mordiford doesn't agree with actually start to pop up.
I'm just going to end with, I hope this is a success and it leads to other bigger/more badass tournaments.
I clearly meant physical limitations between genders since that was my whole point.
Taking this to PM to avoid cluttering this thread.
On June 10 2011 02:08 Chill wrote: Can you tell us who has signed up and their approximate skill level?
If anyone. ^^ I thought this thread was meant to advertise so that female players would sign up. I have yet to see one. I think the idea's got potential so it'd be sad if it were not to happen.
Ahh, I would love to join, unfortunately I'm so terribad it wouldn't even be entertaining to watch, hahaha. Maybe next time after I've had time to practice!
I wonder if this'll be like the olympics but vice versa. I remember a story where a girl infiltrated the olympics dressed as a guy. Should a guy do the same, maybe it'll also result in all the participants having to play naked and preferably with a webcam.
Hyped (yes, hyped) to see kellyMILKIES playing. I've been a fan* of hers since she casted GSL, and then watching her stream was a treat <3. Haven't heard much about the other masters players (although I have heard of flo)... I hope we see some good games all around
*: Haven't posted in her fanclub thread yet because it's even more scary and full of misogyny than this thread </3
Good luck with this CheekyDuck! I'd actually like to help around if theres anything for me to do. Don't see a lot of females playing SC where i live yeah xP
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but in the title it should be Tourney, not Torny. Two letters missing, making it look like horny. The way using upper/lower case wrongly makes ogsmc look like orgasmic to some people (should be oGsMC).
On June 19 2011 15:57 StimMarine wrote: Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but in the title it should be Tourney, not Torny. Two letters missing, making it look like horny. The way using upper/lower case wrongly makes ogsmc look like orgasmic to some people (should be oGsMC).
One thing is for sure, after this tournament, when all the girls bent names are readily available their harassment in game is going to sky rocket thanks to the cesspool of a group the TL community is.
On June 19 2011 23:06 Lokken wrote: One thing is for sure, after this tournament, when all the girls bent names are readily available their harassment in game is going to sky rocket thanks to the cesspool of a group the TL community is.
None's forcing you to be here, if you hate us so much. I've got nothing against girls. Frankly I don't give a fuck. It's someone I'm playing against on the computer. It's not like martyr comments like that is going to help the situation though. 12 year old kids are flaming everything that moves, and I highly doubt anyone's gonna know they're girls unless they actually tell the people they're playing, which is kind of weird in the first place.
What a minority of the cesspool - TL thinks, is that female only tournaments are kind of weird since there's no disadvantage for a female gamer, thus individual leagues are somewhat strange. It's like if there'd be a league only for white people. If you're black or asian you're not allowed. Some people have a bad feeling about seperating people for arbitrary reasons.
To me personally I don't really see the problem as it's not on a very big scale yet, but I'd rather see girls participating in regular tournaments rather than in special cups. It'd be cool to see a team like dignitas or mouz to pick up a female gamer.
On June 19 2011 23:06 Lokken wrote: One thing is for sure, after this tournament, when all the girls bent names are readily available their harassment in game is going to sky rocket thanks to the cesspool of a group the TL community is.
None's forcing you to be here, if you hate us so much. I've got nothing against girls. Frankly I don't give a fuck. It's someone I'm playing against on the computer. It's not like martyr comments like that is going to help the situation though. 12 year old kids are flaming everything that moves, and I highly doubt anyone's gonna know they're girls unless they actually tell the people they're playing, which is kind of weird in the first place.
What a minority of the cesspool - TL thinks, is that female only tournaments are kind of weird since there's no disadvantage for a female gamer, thus individual leagues are somewhat strange. It's like if there'd be a league only for white people. If you're black or asian you're not allowed. Some people have a bad feeling about seperating people for arbitrary reasons.
To me personally I don't really see the problem as it's not on a very big scale yet, but I'd rather see girls participating in regular tournaments rather than in special cups. It'd be cool to see a team like dignitas or mouz to pick up a female gamer.
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Clearly I do find much to still like here or I wouldn't have finally made an account
I don't have a problem with a girls only tournament. Lord knows there are all kinds of guys only things in this world.
I do think its silly to compare this to the olympics or other sports. There is no disparity between male and female physical ability to play esports as there are in normal sports; so the comparison is not relevant
I'm looking forward to this also. Cheeky's run very fun small tournaments in the past, and the prize pool is great for a smaller online tournament like this.
I feel sorry for anyone who tries to organize a female tourney on these forums. Every time some political correctness white knights try to cry sexism. If it weren't for tourneys like these, a lot of females wouldn't want to enter tournaments at all.
On June 30 2011 23:31 Ocedic wrote: I feel sorry for anyone who tries to organize a female tourney on these forums. Every time some political correctness white knights try to cry sexism. If it weren't for tourneys like these, a lot of females wouldn't want to enter tournaments at all.
don't think you are using white knight correctly LOL
I don't agree with the premise of the tourney (personally i think you girls should train up and kick everyone's ass, in MLG and GSL) or the location (sif defect to NA server!)...
but nevertheless congrats beeduck on hosting your own tourney.
oh and i still listen to ur 4gate "friday" parody, its funny shit even if its not as good as funday monday.
anyway the torny with be moved forward 7hrs for me sydney time, it was 10am, now it will be 5pm
Ummm... this tournament is taking place on NA server, you might have a hard time finding participants for a tournament that starts at 12-3AM in north america.
Also, the time on the signup link is now wrong. You should change that too.
Anyways, I can't see a way to unregister on the linked site, but if 3AM EDT is the new correct time, I'm not getting up in the middle of the night to play, so please remove me from the tournament.
the pro gaming scene is incredibly male dominated; do you think there are a lot of girls who want to go to a lan event with 2000 guys and be the only girl there? are you capable of understanding why that's not a comfortable environment?
To be fair, you could say the same thing about "black-only sc2 tournaments" and yet I doubt that would be received very well by the community.
the pro gaming scene is incredibly male dominated; do you think there are a lot of girls who want to go to a lan event with 2000 guys and be the only girl there? are you capable of understanding why that's not a comfortable environment?
To be fair, you could say the same thing about "black-only sc2 tournaments" and yet I doubt that would be received very well by the community.
black guys don't get treated the same way as women at lan events
the pro gaming scene is incredibly male dominated; do you think there are a lot of girls who want to go to a lan event with 2000 guys and be the only girl there? are you capable of understanding why that's not a comfortable environment?
To be fair, you could say the same thing about "black-only sc2 tournaments" and yet I doubt that would be received very well by the community.
black guys don't get treated the same way as women at lan events
Hehe, point taken, but some might argue they're treated worse, and so need their own event even more.
Cutest trophy ever. Hope this goes well for you girls. Women deserve to be able to enjoy Starcraft 2 every bit as much as guys and that is not always possible with the testosterone flowing about. I remember the shit Hafu got for doing WoW arena and she was a pretty good druid too.
Are the games etc. gonna be casted and shoved on the internet?
SC2 is not like physical sports (e.g. boxing, hockey, basketball, MMA, etc.) where no matter how hard women try, they will always lose to men at the highest level of the sport. SC2 is a game, where you sit at a computer and just use hotkeys and a mouse (both men and women can do this equally well, theoretically at least... unlike in the aforementioned sports). This is why I don't think SC2 should have gender-specific tournaments. It just gives more positive feedback to the laziness of female gamers who don't put forth the necessary effort to get as good as male gamers. That is also pretty much the reason why some top female players, such as Megumi, don't join these kinds of tournaments (+ the whole issue of having a dude play for you while a girl talks into the mic so everyone thinks a girl is playing, but in truth it's just a guy). Hopefully one day most females decide to level up their game so that tournaments like this can disappear. But nevertheless, best of luck with the tournament... I'm sure it will be fun. =D
On July 09 2011 13:25 Kahuna. wrote: SC2 is not like physical sports (e.g. boxing, hockey, basketball, MMA, etc.) where no matter how hard women try, they will always lose to men at the highest level of the sport. SC2 is a game, where you sit at a computer and just use hotkeys and a mouse (both men and women can do this equally well, theoretically at least... unlike in the aforementioned sports). This is why I don't think SC2 should have gender-specific tournaments. It just gives more positive feedback to the laziness of female gamers who don't put forth the necessary effort to get as good as male gamers. That is also pretty much the reason why some top female players, such as Megumi, don't join these kinds of tournaments (+ the whole issue of having a dude play for you while a girl talks into the mic so everyone thinks a girl is playing, but in truth it's just a guy). Hopefully one day most females decide to level up their game so that tournaments like this can disappear. But nevertheless, best of luck with the tournament... I'm sure it will be fun. =D
As shocking it might be for you not everyone is out to become a mega-gosu-progamer. And there is nothing wrong with that. If a group of people want to have a tournament for their own enjoyment why shouldn't they? I don't care if it's girls, gold league players, punk rockers, elderly people or... to the guy a few post up...yes even blacks. If they want to have their own tournament, why shouldn't they? To save esports lol?
You must think all the tournaments for specifically lower level players are horrible right? What about tournaments just for students? I've seen a few of those. Damn lazy students, I which they could up their game so we don't have any more of those tournaments in the future...
It could be also called "Sexist Cup". And I mean not that it is only for females, but the fact how you present it: pink colors, "girly music", not serious attitude. Since I'm black, I'm waiting for Negro SC2 Tournament. I wonder will you promote it with HipHop music and put banana as a trophy? Peace.
On June 30 2011 23:31 Ocedic wrote: I feel sorry for anyone who tries to organize a female tourney on these forums. Every time some political correctness white knights try to cry sexism. If it weren't for tourneys like these, a lot of females wouldn't want to enter tournaments at all.
don't think you are using white knight correctly LOL
On July 09 2011 13:25 Kahuna. wrote: SC2 is not like physical sports (e.g. boxing, hockey, basketball, MMA, etc.) where no matter how hard women try, they will always lose to men at the highest level of the sport. SC2 is a game, where you sit at a computer and just use hotkeys and a mouse (both men and women can do this equally well, theoretically at least... unlike in the aforementioned sports). This is why I don't think SC2 should have gender-specific tournaments. It just gives more positive feedback to the laziness of female gamers who don't put forth the necessary effort to get as good as male gamers. That is also pretty much the reason why some top female players, such as Megumi, don't join these kinds of tournaments (+ the whole issue of having a dude play for you while a girl talks into the mic so everyone thinks a girl is playing, but in truth it's just a guy). Hopefully one day most females decide to level up their game so that tournaments like this can disappear. But nevertheless, best of luck with the tournament... I'm sure it will be fun. =D
As shocking it might be for you not everyone is out to become a mega-gosu-progamer. And there is nothing wrong with that. If a group of people want to have a tournament for their own enjoyment why shouldn't they? I don't care if it's girls, gold league players, punk rockers, elderly people or... to the guy a few post up...yes even blacks. If they want to have their own tournament, why shouldn't they? To save esports lol?
You must think all the tournaments for specifically lower level players are horrible right? What about tournaments just for students? I've seen a few of those. Damn lazy students, I which they could up their game so we don't have any more of those tournaments in the future...
Sorry that I wasn't clear enough in my post. I can see why you may have misinterpreted what my point is. But, please don't come up with your own conclusions about my views, it's pure speculation on your part... I never said anything about lower league tournaments being stupid or that the CSL is a tournament for lazy students. I see no problem with tournaments held for lower level players... the problem is when you divide it up by gender, race, etc. When you do, it implies that women can't compete with men in SC2 which I think is not true (since SC2 is not the same as say boxing or MMA where women actually can't compete with men at the highest level). There is nothing wrong with holding an all Gold level players tournament or one that is college students who are SC2 enthusiasts. But there is something wrong with holding female cups because there is an implication that goes along with it. Skill-based divisions make sense... gender-based, race-based, and any of those other absurd suggestions you made don't make sense... but feel free to organize a blacks only tournament if it makes you happy. To each his own, I guess. As for your first sentence: "As shocking it might be for you not everyone is out to become a mega-gosu-progamer." No, it is not shocking to me at all. I am one of many who doesn't want to be a "mega-gosu-progamer" either.
On June 30 2011 23:31 Ocedic wrote: I feel sorry for anyone who tries to organize a female tourney on these forums. Every time some political correctness white knights try to cry sexism. If it weren't for tourneys like these, a lot of females wouldn't want to enter tournaments at all.
don't think you are using white knight correctly LOL
Educate me, internet master.
IMHO, The White Knight would be defending the cause of the OP, not attacking it. In correct context, I believe, you would be considered the White Knight, as you are sticking up for the OP. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
As for my opinion, I think any initiative is great, and whomever organizes the tourney can make up the rules as he/she desires. I have no problem with it.
Last time I participated on a regular sc2 tourney, someone knew me and mention that I was a girl... after that I was getting spammed and people were being plain stupid. So why do I go to female only tourneys? so I avoid all the trouble, play and hf ~
CheekyDuck, I totally support, and I think all of the SC2/TL community as well, you making a CheekyDuck tournament. In fact, its pretty clear everyone would encourage you to have more tournaments, but using a pink/rainbow/falsetto intro for a girl specific tournament diminishes the skill/serious play of a good players like KellyMilkies or flo. If you were to say make it the CheekyDuck Tournament and have the exact same intro, that would be fine, because those images are attached to your identity.
The issue many of us here have is not you having a tournament, but distinguishing between players based on gender. E-Sports involves sitting at a desk and typing and I doubt muscular development among males is going to seriously give them an advantage over females; KellyMilkies is a thousand times better than I am (a boy), so a girl's tournament is not necessarily for lower level players either.
Yes, Starcraft II is a war game and war is considered a masculine activity (although many historians have indicated war is often feminine) but that doesn't mean each male SC2 player subscribes to being a brute. If you're worried about getting harassed, don't be. It's the internet and it doesn't matter. Plus, you have the other 99% of SC2 players to support you. As Kahuna/LadyRevenge alluded to, there is a difference between a thread for women/korean/gay players to say they play Starcraft and a tournament restricted to said types of players.
We're just saying be yourself and be a part of the community. Join us! (*insert communism joke*)
I hope the next tournament is a CheekyDuck Tournament and not a Girl's Tournament.
On July 10 2011 01:40 Koruptor wrote: It could be also called "Sexist Cup". And I mean not that it is only for females, but the fact how you present it: pink colors, "girly music", not serious attitude. Since I'm black, I'm waiting for Negro SC2 Tournament. I wonder will you promote it with HipHop music and put banana as a trophy? Peace.
On July 09 2011 13:25 Kahuna. wrote: SC2 is not like physical sports (e.g. boxing, hockey, basketball, MMA, etc.) where no matter how hard women try, they will always lose to men at the highest level of the sport. SC2 is a game, where you sit at a computer and just use hotkeys and a mouse (both men and women can do this equally well, theoretically at least... unlike in the aforementioned sports). This is why I don't think SC2 should have gender-specific tournaments. It just gives more positive feedback to the laziness of female gamers who don't put forth the necessary effort to get as good as male gamers. That is also pretty much the reason why some top female players, such as Megumi, don't join these kinds of tournaments (+ the whole issue of having a dude play for you while a girl talks into the mic so everyone thinks a girl is playing, but in truth it's just a guy). Hopefully one day most females decide to level up their game so that tournaments like this can disappear. But nevertheless, best of luck with the tournament... I'm sure it will be fun. =D
As shocking it might be for you not everyone is out to become a mega-gosu-progamer. And there is nothing wrong with that. If a group of people want to have a tournament for their own enjoyment why shouldn't they? I don't care if it's girls, gold league players, punk rockers, elderly people or... to the guy a few post up...yes even blacks. If they want to have their own tournament, why shouldn't they? To save esports lol?
You must think all the tournaments for specifically lower level players are horrible right? What about tournaments just for students? I've seen a few of those. Damn lazy students, I which they could up their game so we don't have any more of those tournaments in the future...
Sorry that I wasn't clear enough in my post. I can see why you may have misinterpreted what my point is. But, please don't come up with your own conclusions about my views, it's pure speculation on your part... I never said anything about lower league tournaments being stupid or that the CSL is a tournament for lazy students. I see no problem with tournaments held for lower level players... the problem is when you divide it up by gender, race, etc. When you do, it implies that women can't compete with men in SC2 which I think is not true (since SC2 is not the same as say boxing or MMA where women actually can't compete with men at the highest level). There is nothing wrong with holding an all Gold level players tournament or one that is college students who are SC2 enthusiasts. But there is something wrong with holding female cups because there is an implication that goes along with it. Skill-based divisions make sense... gender-based, race-based, and any of those other absurd suggestions you made don't make sense... but feel free to organize a blacks only tournament if it makes you happy. To each his own, I guess. As for your first sentence: "As shocking it might be for you not everyone is out to become a mega-gosu-progamer." No, it is not shocking to me at all. I am one of many who doesn't want to be a "mega-gosu-progamer" either.
I might have not made my point perfectly clear but you clearly missed it.
You write
the problem is when you divide it up by gender, race, etc. When you do, it implies that women can't compete with men in SC2 which I think is not true
IT DOESN'T MATTER.
That's your problem not the organizers of this tournament. I brought up other groups just to say that you can make tournaments for a lot of different groups of people but when it's women suddenly it's a big no no (I liked how you cherry picked the groups from my post you though were fine and ignored the rest as well as the >etc<). It's hypocrisy and biased towards women. . If I make a tournament for blacks, does it also imply blacks can't compete with other people? And what made you think a tournament for black (or another of my "absurd" suggestions) would make me happy exactly? I don't care. And fyi, those wasn't suggestions, they were examples. And since you brought it up, who gets to decide what "makes sense?" You? In that case you have to do better than "it implies" an inaccuracy.
On June 10 2011 01:36 Mordiford wrote: I don't see these tournaments as having any real purpose as an actual competitive medium other than to get more women involved in competitive play, and that's fine, this tournament specifically is fine, but I don't think it's fair to make those comparisons because it's not the same.
You're right, it's not identical. But it's close enough so who cares. It's a fun tournament, this isn't GSL or something.
confirm that he can bring his sis to say hi i m ladybiatch69i m looking for fun times hihihi then he got mauled by some rdm top 50 who had the same idea he had lol
On July 13 2011 16:56 slytown wrote: CheekyDuck, I totally support, and I think all of the SC2/TL community as well, you making a CheekyDuck tournament. In fact, its pretty clear everyone would encourage you to have more tournaments, but using a pink/rainbow/falsetto intro for a girl specific tournament diminishes the skill/serious play of a good players like KellyMilkies or flo. If you were to say make it the CheekyDuck Tournament and have the exact same intro, that would be fine, because those images are attached to your identity.
The issue many of us here have is not you having a tournament, but distinguishing between players based on gender. E-Sports involves sitting at a desk and typing and I doubt muscular development among males is going to seriously give them an advantage over females; KellyMilkies is a thousand times better than I am (a boy), so a girl's tournament is not necessarily for lower level players either.
Yes, Starcraft II is a war game and war is considered a masculine activity (although many historians have indicated war is often feminine) but that doesn't mean each male SC2 player subscribes to being a brute. If you're worried about getting harassed, don't be. It's the internet and it doesn't matter. Plus, you have the other 99% of SC2 players to support you. As Kahuna/LadyRevenge alluded to, there is a difference between a thread for women/korean/gay players to say they play Starcraft and a tournament restricted to said types of players.
We're just saying be yourself and be a part of the community. Join us! (*insert communism joke*)
I hope the next tournament is a CheekyDuck Tournament and not a Girl's Tournament.
this is the first girl torny i have hosted, i mainly do fun tornys that have handicaps (for casting practice)
also pink use to be a boys color...
on a side note: i got really into nyan nyan... and also i wanted it too be different... i think the cup was cute. nothing says girl like giant pink bow.
as for the players, they were really, really good. a gm won, and it was a big turn around with lots of master girls playing. so that was crazy...
i think a lot of the girls had fun =) even tho there was major trouble with the times etc. hopefully next one will go smoother
On July 13 2011 16:56 slytown wrote: CheekyDuck, I totally support, and I think all of the SC2/TL community as well, you making a CheekyDuck tournament. In fact, its pretty clear everyone would encourage you to have more tournaments, but using a pink/rainbow/falsetto intro for a girl specific tournament diminishes the skill/serious play of a good players like KellyMilkies or flo. If you were to say make it the CheekyDuck Tournament and have the exact same intro, that would be fine, because those images are attached to your identity.
The issue many of us here have is not you having a tournament, but distinguishing between players based on gender. E-Sports involves sitting at a desk and typing and I doubt muscular development among males is going to seriously give them an advantage over females; KellyMilkies is a thousand times better than I am (a boy), so a girl's tournament is not necessarily for lower level players either.
Yes, Starcraft II is a war game and war is considered a masculine activity (although many historians have indicated war is often feminine) but that doesn't mean each male SC2 player subscribes to being a brute. If you're worried about getting harassed, don't be. It's the internet and it doesn't matter. Plus, you have the other 99% of SC2 players to support you. As Kahuna/LadyRevenge alluded to, there is a difference between a thread for women/korean/gay players to say they play Starcraft and a tournament restricted to said types of players.
We're just saying be yourself and be a part of the community. Join us! (*insert communism joke*)
I hope the next tournament is a CheekyDuck Tournament and not a Girl's Tournament.
this is the first girl torny i have hosted, i mainly do fun tornys that have handicaps (for casting practice)
also pink use to be a boys color...
on a side note: i got really into nyan nyan... and also i wanted it too be different... i think the cup was cute. nothing says girl like giant pink bow.
as for the players, they were really, really good. a gm won, and it was a big turn around with lots of master girls playing. so that was crazy...
i think a lot of the girls had fun =) even tho there was major trouble with the times etc. hopefully next one will go smoother
Handicaps? Like how? (Side note. I would love to see 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, and FFA tournetys but those would be almost impossible to cast.)
Edit: Just saw the 4v4 Tournament thread posted by DubStep. Sweet!
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.thecheekyduck.com/sc/cup.jpg)
x
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![[image loading]](http://infgaming.net/img/promos/cig-girls100.png)
