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Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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oDieN[Siege]
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2905 Posts
May 23 2011 04:14 GMT
#1401
Zenio too good ~~
O_O
말크 : ^_^~ NeO)GabuAt, vGODieN
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
May 23 2011 04:14 GMT
#1402
On May 23 2011 13:10 Mailing wrote:
those 15 drones are a single drone pump, and zenio knew he was safe for a long time because spines and infestors and queens are impossible to break with just roaches.

He was 15 drones behind when he was on one base teching up infestors...he was miles behind.

Zenio understands ZvZ more, which is a side effect of playing in korea. He is just better at the MU when he can go into mid-game

Certainly looks like it. His hydra/roach composition just looked much better, the infestor usage, not floating tons of resources (sinking it in very useful spines) etc.
ilmman
Profile Joined September 2010
364 Posts
May 23 2011 04:15 GMT
#1403
even if idra was in the lead.. koreans always have the over practicing to give them the edge in matches anyway. Remember he changed team to EG so he can practice at his own pace because korean teams are too vigorous at training.
hoor3x
Profile Joined September 2010
United States100 Posts
May 23 2011 04:15 GMT
#1404
did boxer not play tonight?
oDieN[Siege]
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2905 Posts
May 23 2011 04:16 GMT
#1405
On May 23 2011 13:15 hoor3x wrote:
did boxer not play tonight?

Nope, Socke had no time to reschedule so Boxer got the 2-0 walk over.
말크 : ^_^~ NeO)GabuAt, vGODieN
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
May 23 2011 04:16 GMT
#1406
On May 23 2011 13:15 ilmman wrote:
even if idra was in the lead.. koreans always have the over practicing to give them the edge in matches anyway. Remember he changed team to EG so he can practice at his own pace because korean teams are too vigorous at training.

...wow. So much wrong with this post that I can't even bother dissecting it. Now is a good time for me to log off TL.
#TeamBuLba
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
May 23 2011 04:17 GMT
#1407
The SC2 foreigner scene is saddening. In BW, we were so far behind that we couldn't catch up. Now in SC2, tons of foreigners have the chance to be on the same level, but they abandon it because they don't want to sacrifice what it takes (more practice, moving to Korea, etc.) - I bet a lot of foreigners will have regrets in a few years, and even more fans will have regrets that the foreigner players decided not to try to be the best in exchange for the security of some chump change small prize pot online tourneys.

Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-23 04:18:21
May 23 2011 04:17 GMT
#1408
On May 23 2011 13:14 akalarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2011 13:10 Mailing wrote:
On May 23 2011 13:06 akalarry wrote:
On May 23 2011 13:02 Mephiztopheles1 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:53 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:51 garlicface wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:50 Mailing wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:
[quote]


Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand.


besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there?



um no?

he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL.

the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki.

nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison.


Yep, definitely a hater.

He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins.


jj33 has a posting history of defending Korean players to the death. Foreigners are nothing compared to them.

thats amazing, seeing as he only has 20 of them.


That's why it's easy to disect his post history

People are overblowing the "advantage" IdrA had. Two more drones but no queens, it's hardly too much of an advantage. Plus the fact that to me it seemed like IdrA doesn't get a lot of practice of ZvZ at this level (in his stream, they all pretty much end up with his first roach push), it wasn't looking too well for him. Happened the same thing against Sen last week, his win came from an early pool+spine crawler rush.


i think the advantage was when his worker count was 40-25 and also when he had a 50 supply lead


Zenio played turtle on 3 base with spines and infestors.

those 15 drones are a single drone pump, and zenio knew he was safe for a long time because spines and infestors and queens are impossible to break with just roaches.

IdrA tried to play a macro game but used shitty roaches instead of tech units like infestors and hive tech. his 40 supply lead is meaningless when 6 fungals kill that many roaches.

Zenio understands ZvZ more, which is a side effect of playing in korea. He is just better at the MU when he can go into mid-game


uh i dono why you quoted me but idra had the clear advantage after holding off the zergling rush. he had a couple more drones but more importantly 300 more minerals like 4 minutes into the game. are you trying to tell me that zenio just played better despite idra's advantage? because that would be quite the captain obvious


No, I am saying "advantage" doesn't mean a lot in ZvZ. In PvP, having 2 more stalkers is a big advantage in the early game, in ZvZ, being 20 supply ahead means nothing unless you can out-right kill your opponent.

IdrA did not attack into zenios spine/infestor defense before roaches came out, and thus his "advantage" was meaningless. It's super easy to catch up if you just pump drones while your opponent makes units to try and kill you. Defenders advantage in ZvZ is insane compared to the other matchups.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-23 04:19:48
May 23 2011 04:18 GMT
#1409
On May 23 2011 13:09 jj33 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2011 12:54 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:53 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:51 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
[quote]
god forbid a player is confident

you people find any reason you can to shit on him



no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style.

But yet you're still trying to call him out....right.



Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand.


besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there?



um no?

he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL.

the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki.

nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison.

uhhh, what are you even talking about? You're trying to argue things I'm not bringing up, idra is one of the best zergs in the world and you can't refute that. I've never said he was the best, but he's accomplished more than most others besides nestea. If you compare every zerg to the best player of that race then you'll never be satisfied.



I never said idra isn't one of the best zergs.

He is I agree. and you said he has accomplished the most in your post, I said no Nestea did.

and you seem to agree.

No, I haven't. You need to actually read posts before putting your foot in your mouth. Go back and try it before you get uppity.


you are so funny man.

you clearly said idra accomplished the most out of all the zergs, then when I bring up facts you edit your post and try and say you never said that.

too funny

he said that idra had accomplished more than most zergs, not that he'd accomplished the most out of all zergs. get your facts straight
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
twndomn
Profile Joined September 2010
401 Posts
May 23 2011 04:20 GMT
#1410
On May 23 2011 12:42 Megaliskuu wrote:
When has Idra ever predicted he would lose a series? He's confident, because he is super fucking good, looks like its time to close the sc2 forums again, always the same nonsense.


Idra stated that Sen was his biggest threat prior to the match, that's pretty close to saying he predicted that he would lose to Sen.

As matter of fact

Sen > Idra
Zenio > Idra

Do your homework before you poop nonsense at other people.
"If MC wins this, his name would not be SK MC, it would be ST MC, ST for Saint, performing miracles." - Artosis.
Mephiztopheles1
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
1124 Posts
May 23 2011 04:23 GMT
#1411
On May 23 2011 13:06 akalarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2011 13:02 Mephiztopheles1 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:53 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:51 garlicface wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:50 Mailing wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:
[quote]


no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style.

But yet you're still trying to call him out....right.



Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand.


besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there?



um no?

he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL.

the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki.

nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison.


Yep, definitely a hater.

He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins.


jj33 has a posting history of defending Korean players to the death. Foreigners are nothing compared to them.

thats amazing, seeing as he only has 20 of them.


That's why it's easy to disect his post history

People are overblowing the "advantage" IdrA had. Two more drones but no queens, it's hardly too much of an advantage. Plus the fact that to me it seemed like IdrA doesn't get a lot of practice of ZvZ at this level (in his stream, they all pretty much end up with his first roach push), it wasn't looking too well for him. Happened the same thing against Sen last week, his win came from an early pool+spine crawler rush.


i think the advantage was when his worker count was 40-25 and also when he had a 50 supply lead


But worker advantage, as witnessed, means very little without turning it into a tech advantage.
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
May 23 2011 04:23 GMT
#1412
On May 23 2011 13:18 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2011 13:09 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:54 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:53 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:51 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:
On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:
[quote]


no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style.

But yet you're still trying to call him out....right.



Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand.


besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there?



um no?

he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL.

the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki.

nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison.

uhhh, what are you even talking about? You're trying to argue things I'm not bringing up, idra is one of the best zergs in the world and you can't refute that. I've never said he was the best, but he's accomplished more than most others besides nestea. If you compare every zerg to the best player of that race then you'll never be satisfied.



I never said idra isn't one of the best zergs.

He is I agree. and you said he has accomplished the most in your post, I said no Nestea did.

and you seem to agree.

No, I haven't. You need to actually read posts before putting your foot in your mouth. Go back and try it before you get uppity.


you are so funny man.

you clearly said idra accomplished the most out of all the zergs, then when I bring up facts you edit your post and try and say you never said that.

too funny

he said that idra had accomplished more than most zergs, not that he'd accomplished the most out of all zergs. get your facts straight


He said it pretty obviously too :-/ Some people get blinded by IdrA hate :O

In relation to the games, ZvZ is a big weakness for IdrA because there really aren't any other top North American Zergs. The only other top foreigner Zergs that come to mind are Ret, Sen, MorroW and Dimaga, all European (except for Sen who's from Taiwan I believe). His only practice partner is Machine who has some holes in his play for sure.
twndomn
Profile Joined September 2010
401 Posts
May 23 2011 04:24 GMT
#1413
On May 23 2011 13:11 Spicy Pepper wrote:
As for idra losing to Zenio, I don't know how idra defends early, I thought he was dead for sure, then the same for Zenio . Zenio is a solid CodeS player, and he pulled a rabbit out of the hat to win game 2. When you have players at this level, that happens sometimes to everyone. I'm not really sure who's better between the two, but I'd like to see more games between them. It's sort of how I feel about Dimaga vs Nestea, in that I'm not convinced that Dimaga is better than Nestea. I think it's clear that idra is the best American zerg though.

Also, Sen 2-0'd idra and Zenio. That's bossmode.


Nestea is better than Sen, better than Zenio, better than Idra.

He beat them before, not just opinion, check record. Sen defeated Idra 2-1, but Idra did a cheese with spine to take his only game.

"If MC wins this, his name would not be SK MC, it would be ST MC, ST for Saint, performing miracles." - Artosis.
twndomn
Profile Joined September 2010
401 Posts
May 23 2011 04:29 GMT
#1414
On May 23 2011 13:23 Ruscour wrote:
In relation to the games, ZvZ is a big weakness for IdrA because there really aren't any other top North American Zergs. The only other top foreigner Zergs that come to mind are Ret, Sen, MorroW and Dimaga, all European (except for Sen who's from Taiwan I believe). His only practice partner is Machine who has some holes in his play for sure.


If Idra has better manner, Ret would be willing to practice ZvZ. Ret would rather spend more time with that megumixbear female terran master than with Idra.

Sen actually plays on NA server, but he screws Idra over by using Protoss, kinda funny.
"If MC wins this, his name would not be SK MC, it would be ST MC, ST for Saint, performing miracles." - Artosis.
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
May 23 2011 04:30 GMT
#1415
On May 23 2011 13:17 0neder wrote:
The SC2 foreigner scene is saddening. In BW, we were so far behind that we couldn't catch up. Now in SC2, tons of foreigners have the chance to be on the same level, but they abandon it because they don't want to sacrifice what it takes (more practice, moving to Korea, etc.) - I bet a lot of foreigners will have regrets in a few years, and even more fans will have regrets that the foreigner players decided not to try to be the best in exchange for the security of some chump change small prize pot online tourneys.



Foreign sc2 actually offers way more money for the average player than korea
Dodge arrows
FearGorm
Profile Joined July 2010
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-23 04:32:31
May 23 2011 04:32 GMT
#1416
Glad to hear people liked the WellPlayed Weekly! Submit your own pimpest plays and you'll show up in the video! http://wellplayed.org/forum/122/thread/3802839/show
CEO, WellPlayed
coldasice
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia208 Posts
May 23 2011 04:35 GMT
#1417
Not really surprised. Good job zenio.
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
May 23 2011 04:36 GMT
#1418
On May 23 2011 13:29 twndomn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2011 13:23 Ruscour wrote:
In relation to the games, ZvZ is a big weakness for IdrA because there really aren't any other top North American Zergs. The only other top foreigner Zergs that come to mind are Ret, Sen, MorroW and Dimaga, all European (except for Sen who's from Taiwan I believe). His only practice partner is Machine who has some holes in his play for sure.


If Idra has better manner, Ret would be willing to practice ZvZ. Ret would rather spend more time with that megumixbear female terran master than with Idra.

Sen actually plays on NA server, but he screws Idra over by using Protoss, kinda funny.


you just made an absolutely clueless statement

when Ret and Idra were both in Korea, Idra & Ret were most definitely practice partners and valued each others input. they did not only practice ZvZ with each other but exchanged ideas on the other racial matchups such as what was the best build order against 2 rax and how to properly deal with it.
E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
May 23 2011 04:38 GMT
#1419
The thing is, Idra stomps everyone in NA in ZvZ. I doubt a lot of his ZvZ goes to late game vs NA zergs, while I guess zenio has a lot more practice in late game ZvZ.
In both games his plan was clear. get lots of infestors. While NA zergs wants to mass roaches then add 2 or 3 infestors if they can't end the game before, but they lose them due to bad control anyway and end up massing more roaches. Zenio just seems to be ahead in his ZvZ builds, perhaps he knows that NA zergs just mass roaches and uses a build only against that.
j3i
Profile Joined February 2011
United States357 Posts
May 23 2011 04:39 GMT
#1420
On May 23 2011 13:30 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2011 13:17 0neder wrote:
The SC2 foreigner scene is saddening. In BW, we were so far behind that we couldn't catch up. Now in SC2, tons of foreigners have the chance to be on the same level, but they abandon it because they don't want to sacrifice what it takes (more practice, moving to Korea, etc.) - I bet a lot of foreigners will have regrets in a few years, and even more fans will have regrets that the foreigner players decided not to try to be the best in exchange for the security of some chump change small prize pot online tourneys.



Foreign sc2 actually offers way more money for the average player than korea


I think his point is that foreigners are too content with being, as you said, "average"
I am an idiot who knows only about gaming, so there is nothing private to talk about to begin with. - Bisu
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