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On May 23 2011 12:33 Taiyoken wrote:
Pretty funny how everyone says Idra is bad despite losing only ONE drone to an 8 pool while doing a 16 pool.
You're supposed to win after holding off cheese. That's why people are calling him out.
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On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:34 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:31 Hazu~ wrote:
[quote]
IdrA himself said he wasn't so sure about his ZvZ since there's pretty much no good zerg player on NA server to play against. thing is Idra said he'd 2-0 zenio you mean that someone said they thought they'd win.... ...and then they were wrong? :O that never happens If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words. idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan. god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison.
Yep, definitely a hater.
He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins.
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What were the results? I missed of these day's games due to tlo's charity stream.
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On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:34 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:31 Hazu~ wrote:
[quote]
IdrA himself said he wasn't so sure about his ZvZ since there's pretty much no good zerg player on NA server to play against. thing is Idra said he'd 2-0 zenio you mean that someone said they thought they'd win.... ...and then they were wrong? :O that never happens If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words. idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan. god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison.
uhhh, what are you even talking about? You're trying to argue things I'm not bringing up, idra is one of the best zergs in the world and you can't refute that. I've never said he was the best, but he's accomplished more than most others besides nestea. If you compare every zerg to the best player of that race then you'll never be satisfied.
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On May 23 2011 12:50 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:34 jj33 wrote:
[quote]
thing is Idra said he'd 2-0 zenio
you mean that someone said they thought they'd win.... ...and then they were wrong? :O that never happens If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words. idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan. god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison. Yep, definitely a hater. He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins.
jj33 has a posting history of defending Korean players to the death. Foreigners are nothing compared to them.
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On May 23 2011 12:31 imPERSONater wrote:
I think IdrA should have teched. Zenio couldn't attack with 10 infestors, so get broods or ultras. Not sure though. Attacking into zenio was suicide
It's a bit of the reverse, in my opinion. Zenio knew IdrA most likely wouldn't pressure him after the failed ling attack and would simply sit back and macro up, so he simply blocked the ramp to fend off the expected ling counter then teched hard to early infestors. IdrA had a long timing window to attack before the infestors built up so much energy since Zenio had no actual army -- his roach warren was incredibly late. It's just that Zenio read him perfectly and knew no mid-game pressure was incoming, so he was free to tech hard and mass the crucial full energy infestors.
That said, I don't believe IdrA actually knew how many infestors Zenio had. If he had scouted it, the correct response would have been to turtle up himself and tech to hive tech like you said.
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On May 23 2011 12:51 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:34 jj33 wrote:
[quote]
thing is Idra said he'd 2-0 zenio
you mean that someone said they thought they'd win.... ...and then they were wrong? :O that never happens If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words. idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan. god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison. uhhh, what are you even talking about? You're trying to argue things I'm not bringing up, idra is one of the best zergs in the world and you can't refute that. I've never said he was the best, but he's accomplished more than most others besides nestea. If you compare every zerg to the best player of that race then you'll never be satisfied.
I never said idra isn't one of the best zergs.
He is I agree. and you said he has accomplished the most in your post, I said no Nestea did.
and you seem to agree.
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On May 23 2011 12:51 garlicface wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:50 Mailing wrote:On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
[quote]
you mean that someone said they thought they'd win....
...and then they were wrong? :O that never happens If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words. idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan. god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison. Yep, definitely a hater. He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins. jj33 has a posting history of defending Korean players to the death. Foreigners are nothing compared to them.
thats amazing, seeing as he only has 20 of them.
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On May 23 2011 12:39 Nerdslayer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:37 Mailing wrote:
Interesting
Zenio has NEVER lost a best or 3 ZvZ except against NesTea.
He always brings some interesting strats (mass overseers, 1 base infestor turtle)
He is probably the second best ZvZ in the world. I think Dimaga might disagree with you he never lose a ZvZ and thats including opponents like Nestea
LOL, How do people pull comments out of their ass like this? Dimaga has lost plenty of ZvZs. Beating someone that was undefeated does not magically make you undefeated.
Also, this thread is pretty hilarious. It seems like some people can't handle seeing a top player lose. SC is just like any sport, where the top teams will rarely go undefeated in a season no matter how dominant they may be. People lose, move on.
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On May 23 2011 12:53 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:51 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
[quote]
you mean that someone said they thought they'd win....
...and then they were wrong? :O that never happens If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words. idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan. god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison. uhhh, what are you even talking about? You're trying to argue things I'm not bringing up, idra is one of the best zergs in the world and you can't refute that. I've never said he was the best, but he's accomplished more than most others besides nestea. If you compare every zerg to the best player of that race then you'll never be satisfied. I never said idra isn't one of the best zergs. He is I agree. and you said he has accomplished the most in your post, I said no Nestea did. and you seem to agree.
No, I haven't. You need to actually read posts before putting your foot in your mouth. Go back and try it before you get uppity.
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You could tell Zenio prepared his ass off for these matches.
His macro is definitely on par with IdrA's , but his infestor control is a few steps ahead as we saw in game 2.
I'm now a fan of ZvZ, it seems like a very strategical and positional MU.
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Idra was ahead in both games, but squandered his lead because, frankly speaking, he did not play late game ZvZ as well as Zenio did. He knew this after playing Zenio, and that's why he gg'd - for Zenio had beat him in a macro game two games in a row, and he did it despite Idra playing from NA and declaring that he'd easily 2-0 the Koreans.
As far as Zenio goes, I think this build is pretty specific to him. Zenio loves mass infestors in just about every match up and he's started using (abusing?) them before most other Zergs around the world. His infestor control was better than Idra's and he knew when to pump units for a push and when to just sit back and defend. He outplayed Idra in the late-game despite being outplayed in the early game.
Zenio's weakness early game has lost him ZvZs in the past - the other loss he suffered in this group was against Sen, where Sen went 2-0 against him in mostly early/mid game wins. But unlike Sen, Idra loves to sit back and macro after he gets an advantage, and this allowed Zenio to get back in the game with infestors. Sometimes, as Day9 says, you just gotta go and fucking kill him.
With these losses, Idra is no longer top 2 in his group. It's not looking that grim for him by any means, but he's going to have to be careful with his upcoming matches.
Sen and Boxer will now take the top 2 slots with a win against Tyler and a walkover against Socke, respectively.
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On May 23 2011 12:51 garlicface wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:50 Mailing wrote:On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:35 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
[quote]
you mean that someone said they thought they'd win....
...and then they were wrong? :O that never happens If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words. idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan. god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison. Yep, definitely a hater. He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins. jj33 has a posting history of defending Korean players to the death. Foreigners are nothing compared to them.
keyword defend. when i see posts that are clearly anti korea, yea I will defend them. especially from guys like catz. Like all the hate MC got cuz he beat white-ra etc.
nice way of putting words into my mouth saying foreigners are nothing, as I never said that.
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On May 23 2011 12:52 pretensile wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:31 imPERSONater wrote:
I think IdrA should have teched. Zenio couldn't attack with 10 infestors, so get broods or ultras. Not sure though. Attacking into zenio was suicide It's a bit of the reverse, in my opinion. Zenio knew IdrA most likely wouldn't pressure him after the failed ling attack and would simply sit back and macro up, so he simply blocked the ramp to fend off the expected ling counter then teched hard to early infestors. IdrA had a long timing window to attack before the infestors built up so much energy since Zenio had no actual army -- his roach warren was incredibly late. It's just that Zenio read him perfectly and knew no mid-game pressure was incoming, so he was free to tech hard and mass the crucial full energy infestors. That said, I don't believe IdrA actually knew how many infestors Zenio had. If he had scouted it, the correct response would have been to turtle up himself and tech to hive tech like you said.
This post here probably explains game 2 the best. One thing I'm sure Idra will take away from this game is to make sure to scout and do an infestor count.
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Zenio thought to himself, what can I make now that is gonna serve me well late game and allow me to survive, and made infestors, and then macroed up greety but still macroed like a boss. and then moved out with 15+ fungals and beat idra like a pro.
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On May 23 2011 12:56 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:51 garlicface wrote:On May 23 2011 12:50 Mailing wrote:On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:
[quote]
If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words.
idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan.
god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison. Yep, definitely a hater. He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins. jj33 has a posting history of defending Korean players to the death. Foreigners are nothing compared to them. keyword defend. when i see posts that are clearly anti korea, yea I will defend them. especially from guys like catz. Like all the hate MC got cuz he beat white-ra etc. nice way of putting words into my mouth saying foreigners are nothing, as I never said that.
No one here is anti Korea, you're just pulling things out of nowhere to give yourself a reason to argue.
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On May 23 2011 12:56 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 12:51 garlicface wrote:On May 23 2011 12:50 Mailing wrote:On May 23 2011 12:49 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:48 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:46 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2011 12:42 jj33 wrote:On May 23 2011 12:38 MonsieurGrimm wrote:On May 23 2011 12:37 jj33 wrote:
[quote]
If idra said he's awful in zvz, yet he says he would 2-0 zenio. it's called eating your own words.
idra has a history of being extremely cocky etc, take it in context. seems like you're a bitter idra fan.
god forbid a player is confident you people find any reason you can to shit on him no you're a bitter idra fan. I'm not hating on idra, just pointing it out. I actually like idra since I'm a zerg and I like his style. But yet you're still trying to call him out....right. Yea I like idra's style. but his mouth can't back up his results. not hard to understand. besides the fact he's won more major tourneys than almost every zerg out there? um no? he was a backup nothing in bw, comes to sc2 wins what? 1 mlg and the IPL. the IPL honestly was a joke. the competition was just him / select and kiwikaki. nice try. nestea just won GSL, sorry no comparison. Yep, definitely a hater. He didn't say idra was better than NesTea. Just that he is one of the VERY FEW ZERGs to have ANY big tourney wins. jj33 has a posting history of defending Korean players to the death. Foreigners are nothing compared to them. keyword defend. when i see posts that are clearly anti korea, yea I will defend them. especially from guys like catz. Like all the hate MC got cuz he beat white-ra etc. nice way of putting words into my mouth saying foreigners are nothing, as I never said that.
EDIT: Something I Should PM! and not reply.
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Zenio has always been like this lol, he looks amazing in one game and then in another he looks completely mediocre. I hope he does really well in the Super Tournament.
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i think idra needs better practice partners 
he is definitely the best US player right now, but korean players' control and mechanics on average are just way better than US players, even though strategies/build orders are similar. not surprised his losses so far come from non-NAs
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On May 23 2011 12:57 MechKing wrote:
Zenio has always been like this lol, he looks amazing in one game and then in another he looks completely mediocre. I hope he does really well in the Super Tournament.
Zenio should do well....but I dont know if any zerg besides nestea is rush proof enough to survive. That's the issue imo, nestea is the best defender in the game.
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