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On April 29 2011 05:09 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 04:38 slyboogie wrote:On April 29 2011 04:34 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:15 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 04:03 maartendq wrote:On April 29 2011 03:48 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 03:45 M1cha84 wrote:
I watched Artosis stream last night, and watching him now, I have to say, he plays really bad! I don't want to offend him, but he plays like a dia player! As much as I like him as a caster, as a player he doesn't play at a top level! Yeah, his APM is HORRIBLE and his decisionmaking is really bad. It's sad to see because he has so much game knowledge, he'd be one of the best coaches easily. He should just not try to play because he can't put it in motion himself anymore, not like he used to in Brood War. Maybe with a lot more practice but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I think it's safe to say he still has a life outside of doing stuff for the Starcraft community. People in their twenties generally tend to have that. Edit: god, inControl and that asian guy (whose name I don't know) are horrible commentators. Doesn't change that there were tons of more qualified people for this NASL than Artosis though. If you apply to something like this you should put in commitment, not make a joke out of the league and yourself. It's disrespectful. Nope. If you get accepted to a league you have no responsibility to anyone. I don't agree with the guy above you, NASL knew what they were getting with Artosis and they accepted him. But do you honestly think that a member of a league has no responsibility to anyone? Players in leagues have responsibilities to the league and to the fans. Hope I didn't just get trolled O_o How do you figure they have a responsibility to the fans? That's like saying I have a responsibility to the fans of TSL to study SC2 build orders. Of course I don't. The only responsibility I have is to be there on time to commentate the games. If I suck so badly that people complain, then TSL administrators have a responsibility to replace me.
This is almost certainly an "agree to disagree" conversation. I'll just say that the way the TSL administration decides whether or not to replace you, would be through fan feedback. And to be totally frank, they aren't the same thing. You are a commentator and in this scenario, Artosis is a player. The league exists for the fans - the $50,000 prize pool is basically the "wage" paid to the players to entertain fans with their play.
If the NASL truly believed that the players don't have any responsibilities to the fans, then they would not have included a $500 "behavior deposit," but they do. NBA players can't sag their shorts and NFL players get suspended for punching strippers. To sum it up, I'll say that the league has a responsibility (or economic incentive") to please the fan and players, as representatives of the leagues, are burdened by that same responsibility by proxy.
After writing those two paragraphs, I feel like we're discussing two very different concepts of "responsibility." Nevertheless, your original statement was broad and I took it as such.
Nope. If you get accepted to a league you have no responsibility to anyone.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:22 dunc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 05:09 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:38 slyboogie wrote:On April 29 2011 04:34 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:15 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 04:03 maartendq wrote:On April 29 2011 03:48 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 03:45 M1cha84 wrote:
I watched Artosis stream last night, and watching him now, I have to say, he plays really bad! I don't want to offend him, but he plays like a dia player! As much as I like him as a caster, as a player he doesn't play at a top level! Yeah, his APM is HORRIBLE and his decisionmaking is really bad. It's sad to see because he has so much game knowledge, he'd be one of the best coaches easily. He should just not try to play because he can't put it in motion himself anymore, not like he used to in Brood War. Maybe with a lot more practice but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I think it's safe to say he still has a life outside of doing stuff for the Starcraft community. People in their twenties generally tend to have that. Edit: god, inControl and that asian guy (whose name I don't know) are horrible commentators. Doesn't change that there were tons of more qualified people for this NASL than Artosis though. If you apply to something like this you should put in commitment, not make a joke out of the league and yourself. It's disrespectful. Nope. If you get accepted to a league you have no responsibility to anyone. I don't agree with the guy above you, NASL knew what they were getting with Artosis and they accepted him. But do you honestly think that a member of a league has no responsibility to anyone? Players in leagues have responsibilities to the league and to the fans. Hope I didn't just get trolled O_o How do you figure they have a responsibility to the fans? That's like saying I have a responsibility to the fans of TSL to study SC2 build orders. Of course I don't. The only responsibility I have is to be there on time to commentate the games. If I suck so badly that people complain, then TSL administrators have a responsibility to replace me. This comparison is ridiculous. I'm sure you can see that yourself though so I'll just leave you to it. You're a commentator, we expect you to commentate. Artosis is a player in one of the most prominent leagues in the world, one would expect him to actually be a decent player. I honestly feel like you're trolling at this point and it's not worth it, you've not brought up a single decent point yet. I'm glad that he wants to return to the spotlight as a player but he should try it out for fun at events like MLG, not take spots that could be filled by players at least 20 times as good as him, who would provide us with games that don't result in one of the players getting absolutely stomped. AND LAST EDIT: I really don't want to be disrespectful towards Artosis but it's the truth, I made my points in the first two posts in a decent matter but apparently it's too hard to understand. Yes, it's NASL's fault for inviting him. However, I don't think he should have applied in the first place since he knew he wouldn't get to practice much.. and I think considering how good he is at analyzing players/the game he would know he wouldn't be able to keep up with the pro players.
Well I can't respond to you not responding to me, so I'll just tell you I am indeed not trolling.
I think you need to think about the difference between "what would be nice" and "responsibility".
Someone gets a job. Are they accountable to the customer? No, of course not. If they serve the customer poorly, the customer can't take their money or get revenge. The company acts as a buffer.
Employee < -- Company -- > Customer
Artosis < -- NASL -- > Fans
Get it? Artosis has no responsibility TO YOU to learn to play, or study the game, or show enjoyable games. Zero. His only responsibility is to the NASL to show up on time and play his games fairly.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:27 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 05:09 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:38 slyboogie wrote:On April 29 2011 04:34 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:15 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 04:03 maartendq wrote:On April 29 2011 03:48 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 03:45 M1cha84 wrote:
I watched Artosis stream last night, and watching him now, I have to say, he plays really bad! I don't want to offend him, but he plays like a dia player! As much as I like him as a caster, as a player he doesn't play at a top level! Yeah, his APM is HORRIBLE and his decisionmaking is really bad. It's sad to see because he has so much game knowledge, he'd be one of the best coaches easily. He should just not try to play because he can't put it in motion himself anymore, not like he used to in Brood War. Maybe with a lot more practice but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I think it's safe to say he still has a life outside of doing stuff for the Starcraft community. People in their twenties generally tend to have that. Edit: god, inControl and that asian guy (whose name I don't know) are horrible commentators. Doesn't change that there were tons of more qualified people for this NASL than Artosis though. If you apply to something like this you should put in commitment, not make a joke out of the league and yourself. It's disrespectful. Nope. If you get accepted to a league you have no responsibility to anyone. I don't agree with the guy above you, NASL knew what they were getting with Artosis and they accepted him. But do you honestly think that a member of a league has no responsibility to anyone? Players in leagues have responsibilities to the league and to the fans. Hope I didn't just get trolled O_o How do you figure they have a responsibility to the fans? That's like saying I have a responsibility to the fans of TSL to study SC2 build orders. Of course I don't. The only responsibility I have is to be there on time to commentate the games. If I suck so badly that people complain, then TSL administrators have a responsibility to replace me. This is almost certainly an "agree to disagree" conversation. I'll just say that the way the TSL administration decides whether or not to replace you, would be through fan feedback. And to be totally frank, they aren't the same thing. You are a commentator and in this scenario, Artosis is a player. The league exists for the fans - the $50,000 prize pool is basically the "wage" paid to the players to entertain fans with their play. If the NASL truly believed that the players don't have any responsibilities to the fans, then they would not have included a $500 "behavior deposit," but they do. NBA players can't sag their shorts and NFL players get suspended for punching strippers. To sum it up, I'll say that the league has a responsibility (or economic incentive") to please the fan and players, as representatives of the leagues, are burdened by that same responsibility by proxy. After writing those two paragraphs, I feel like we're discussing two very different concepts of "responsibility." Nevertheless, your original statement was broad and I took it as such.
The original discussion is that Artosis, by accepting to play in the NASL, has some inherent responsibility to the fans to keep them entertained. Or at a minimum, train so that he can play at a competitive level.
My argument is that Artosis has no such responsibility. It would be nice, but it's not a responsibility. Being nice and being responsible aren't the same thing.
Edit: The damage waiver is completely erroneous. It's to ensure the players follow the rules - it has nothing to do with the player-fan relationship.
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This is ridiculous now
You made a comparison to casters not having a responsibility to the viewers. We addressed that mainly, and now you say we did not.
Then you proceed to say that employees have no responsibility to the customer? What the fuck?
Have you ever worked a job where you interact with customers? The first thing you learn is to get down on your knees and lick the shoes of the customer. Employees are ridiculously responsible for the customers.
If i work at a fast food restaurant and give a customer a hour old burger shittily thrown together, i will get fired. Why? Because i'm being irresponsible
Hell, depending on the place, if i swear in front of customer i will get fired (one of my managers at Panera Bread was fired for apologizing "if i seemed like a jackass, its just really busy today."
If my job is tech support, i can't call my customer a stupid fuck even if i help him solve his problem. No job is literally to just fufill the literal definition of the job with no other considerations
You ARE trolling. I understand that you are a mod and everything, but this is obscene. No one will agree with you that a employee has no responsibility to their customer.
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Comparing voluntary work in a hospital to producing free content for fans, yeah just lol on that one. You people should wake up and go out into the real world. Maybe you use the word responsibility wrong, or you are just deluded.
@ slyboogie. The league exists to earn the league money. The players have to pay 500$ so the organizers of the league can make sure they will be able to produce content ... to earn them money.
People and organizations have only responsibilies towards themselves. If they have a contract with you they have the responsibility to give you what you paid for. If you dont pay for their service they still are interested to earn money through commercials, but they dont have any responsibilities towards you. Same goes for players.
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On April 29 2011 05:30 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 05:22 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 05:09 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:38 slyboogie wrote:On April 29 2011 04:34 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:15 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 04:03 maartendq wrote:On April 29 2011 03:48 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 03:45 M1cha84 wrote:
I watched Artosis stream last night, and watching him now, I have to say, he plays really bad! I don't want to offend him, but he plays like a dia player! As much as I like him as a caster, as a player he doesn't play at a top level! Yeah, his APM is HORRIBLE and his decisionmaking is really bad. It's sad to see because he has so much game knowledge, he'd be one of the best coaches easily. He should just not try to play because he can't put it in motion himself anymore, not like he used to in Brood War. Maybe with a lot more practice but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I think it's safe to say he still has a life outside of doing stuff for the Starcraft community. People in their twenties generally tend to have that. Edit: god, inControl and that asian guy (whose name I don't know) are horrible commentators. Doesn't change that there were tons of more qualified people for this NASL than Artosis though. If you apply to something like this you should put in commitment, not make a joke out of the league and yourself. It's disrespectful. Nope. If you get accepted to a league you have no responsibility to anyone. I don't agree with the guy above you, NASL knew what they were getting with Artosis and they accepted him. But do you honestly think that a member of a league has no responsibility to anyone? Players in leagues have responsibilities to the league and to the fans. Hope I didn't just get trolled O_o How do you figure they have a responsibility to the fans? That's like saying I have a responsibility to the fans of TSL to study SC2 build orders. Of course I don't. The only responsibility I have is to be there on time to commentate the games. If I suck so badly that people complain, then TSL administrators have a responsibility to replace me. This comparison is ridiculous. I'm sure you can see that yourself though so I'll just leave you to it. You're a commentator, we expect you to commentate. Artosis is a player in one of the most prominent leagues in the world, one would expect him to actually be a decent player. I honestly feel like you're trolling at this point and it's not worth it, you've not brought up a single decent point yet. I'm glad that he wants to return to the spotlight as a player but he should try it out for fun at events like MLG, not take spots that could be filled by players at least 20 times as good as him, who would provide us with games that don't result in one of the players getting absolutely stomped. AND LAST EDIT: I really don't want to be disrespectful towards Artosis but it's the truth, I made my points in the first two posts in a decent matter but apparently it's too hard to understand. Yes, it's NASL's fault for inviting him. However, I don't think he should have applied in the first place since he knew he wouldn't get to practice much.. and I think considering how good he is at analyzing players/the game he would know he wouldn't be able to keep up with the pro players. Well I can't respond to you not responding to me, so I'll just tell you I am indeed not trolling. I think you need to think about the difference between "what would be nice" and "responsibility". Someone gets a job. Are they accountable to the customer? No, of course not. If they serve the customer poorly, the customer can't take their money or get revenge. The company acts as a buffer. Employee < -- Company -- > Customer Artosis < -- NASL -- > Fans Get it? Artosis has no responsibility TO YOU to learn to play, or study the game, or show enjoyable games. Zero. His only responsibility is to the NASL to show up on time and play his games fairly.
You are just nitpicking here by by differentiating like this between responisiblity to fans and to the league. You were the one that said, once accepted to the league "you have no responsibility to anyone".
Wich is of course total nonsense.
In the end we all have a responsibility to perform at our job. To come up with stuff like "no its only your boss that has a responsibility to fire you if your bad" is just silly.
Btw you are not doing Artosis a favor here but I am pretty sure he sees it differently that you.
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On April 29 2011 05:36 sAfuRos wrote:
This is ridiculous now
You made a comparison to casters not having a responsibility to the viewers. We addressed that mainly, and now you say we did not.
Then you proceed to say that employees have no responsibility to the customer? What the fuck?
Have you ever worked a job where you interact with customers? The first thing you learn is to get down on your knees and lick the shoes of the customer. Employees are ridiculously responsible for the customers.
If i work at a fast food restaurant and give a customer a hour old burger shittily thrown together, i will get fired. Why? Because i'm being irresponsible
Hell, depending on the place, if i swear in front of customer i will get fired (one of my managers at Panera Bread was fired for apologizing "if i seemed like a jackass, its just really busy today."
If my job is tech support, i can't call my customer a stupid fuck even if i help him solve his problem. No job is literally to just fufill the literal definition of the job with no other considerations
You ARE trolling. I understand that you are a mod and everything, but this is obscene. No one will agree with you that a employee has no responsibility to their customer.
I agree with just about everything he's said, so nice call on that one.
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On April 29 2011 05:32 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 05:27 slyboogie wrote:On April 29 2011 05:09 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:38 slyboogie wrote:On April 29 2011 04:34 Chill wrote:On April 29 2011 04:15 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 04:03 maartendq wrote:On April 29 2011 03:48 dunc wrote:On April 29 2011 03:45 M1cha84 wrote:
I watched Artosis stream last night, and watching him now, I have to say, he plays really bad! I don't want to offend him, but he plays like a dia player! As much as I like him as a caster, as a player he doesn't play at a top level! Yeah, his APM is HORRIBLE and his decisionmaking is really bad. It's sad to see because he has so much game knowledge, he'd be one of the best coaches easily. He should just not try to play because he can't put it in motion himself anymore, not like he used to in Brood War. Maybe with a lot more practice but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I think it's safe to say he still has a life outside of doing stuff for the Starcraft community. People in their twenties generally tend to have that. Edit: god, inControl and that asian guy (whose name I don't know) are horrible commentators. Doesn't change that there were tons of more qualified people for this NASL than Artosis though. If you apply to something like this you should put in commitment, not make a joke out of the league and yourself. It's disrespectful. Nope. If you get accepted to a league you have no responsibility to anyone. I don't agree with the guy above you, NASL knew what they were getting with Artosis and they accepted him. But do you honestly think that a member of a league has no responsibility to anyone? Players in leagues have responsibilities to the league and to the fans. Hope I didn't just get trolled O_o How do you figure they have a responsibility to the fans? That's like saying I have a responsibility to the fans of TSL to study SC2 build orders. Of course I don't. The only responsibility I have is to be there on time to commentate the games. If I suck so badly that people complain, then TSL administrators have a responsibility to replace me. This is almost certainly an "agree to disagree" conversation. I'll just say that the way the TSL administration decides whether or not to replace you, would be through fan feedback. And to be totally frank, they aren't the same thing. You are a commentator and in this scenario, Artosis is a player. The league exists for the fans - the $50,000 prize pool is basically the "wage" paid to the players to entertain fans with their play. If the NASL truly believed that the players don't have any responsibilities to the fans, then they would not have included a $500 "behavior deposit," but they do. NBA players can't sag their shorts and NFL players get suspended for punching strippers. To sum it up, I'll say that the league has a responsibility (or economic incentive") to please the fan and players, as representatives of the leagues, are burdened by that same responsibility by proxy. After writing those two paragraphs, I feel like we're discussing two very different concepts of "responsibility." Nevertheless, your original statement was broad and I took it as such. Nope. If you get accepted to a league you have no responsibility to anyone. The original discussion is that Artosis, by accepting to play in the NASL, has some inherent responsibility to the fans to keep them entertained. Or at a minimum, train so that he can play at a competitive level. My argument is that Artosis has no such responsibility. It would be nice, but it's not a responsibility. Being nice and being responsible aren't the same thing. Edit: The damage waiver is completely erroneous. It's to ensure the players follow the rules - it has nothing to do with the player-fan relationship.
Responsible in what way? He's not legally responsible to play the matches at all, he could just give WOs but that would reflect poorly on him, just as actively pursuing an attractive spot in a league and then not training when you get accepted. I'm not saying he doesn't train though, I'm just saying that it would be disrespectful to the community and to the people who didn't get into the league if he didn't take it seriously.
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On April 29 2011 05:36 sAfuRos wrote:
This is ridiculous now
You made a comparison to casters not having a responsibility to the viewers. We addressed that mainly, and now you say we did not.
Then you proceed to say that employees have no responsibility to the customer? What the fuck?
Have you ever worked a job where you interact with customers? The first thing you learn is to get down on your knees and lick the shoes of the customer. Employees are ridiculously responsible for the customers.
If i work at a fast food restaurant and give a customer a hour old burger shittily thrown together, i will get fired. Why? Because i'm being irresponsible
Hell, depending on the place, if i swear in front of customer i will get fired (one of my managers at Panera Bread was fired for apologizing "if i seemed like a jackass, its just really busy today."
If my job is tech support, i can't call my customer a stupid fuck even if i help him solve his problem. No job is literally to just fufill the literal definition of the job with no other considerations
You ARE trolling. I understand that you are a mod and everything, but this is obscene. No one will agree with you that a employee has no responsibility to their customer.
You obviously haven't thought this through. Who does the customer sue if he gets mistreated by an employee? The company. The employee is responsible to the company (for giving him wages), and the company is responsible to the customer (for giving it payment). Each is responsible to the entity paying him as part of some kind of a contract (wage for working and keeping rules, and payment for services/goods up to a certain standard). In some cases, the employee is the company, or the person receiving payment directly, but that is not the case here.
What wage has Artosis received from YOU, pray tell? None. He is not in any single viewer's debt, neither is he responsible to YOU for anything. Your sense of entitlement is conflating what you want with what people actually owe you.
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Certainly he is. The NASL depends on viewership, and i am a viewer, as are the many disappointed with his mediocre play.
Youre interpreting responsibility in the most non-applicable way possible. An employee has a responsibility to the company, and the company to the customer. If the customer is mistreated, the employee is fired. Its his responsibility to not mistreat the customer, or he gets fired. Fuck all if you don't think thats what responsibility means, the end result is the same; the employee gets fired, and whatever you want to call it doesn't matter.
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On April 29 2011 05:48 Ajax77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 05:36 sAfuRos wrote:
This is ridiculous now
You made a comparison to casters not having a responsibility to the viewers. We addressed that mainly, and now you say we did not.
Then you proceed to say that employees have no responsibility to the customer? What the fuck?
Have you ever worked a job where you interact with customers? The first thing you learn is to get down on your knees and lick the shoes of the customer. Employees are ridiculously responsible for the customers.
If i work at a fast food restaurant and give a customer a hour old burger shittily thrown together, i will get fired. Why? Because i'm being irresponsible
Hell, depending on the place, if i swear in front of customer i will get fired (one of my managers at Panera Bread was fired for apologizing "if i seemed like a jackass, its just really busy today."
If my job is tech support, i can't call my customer a stupid fuck even if i help him solve his problem. No job is literally to just fufill the literal definition of the job with no other considerations
You ARE trolling. I understand that you are a mod and everything, but this is obscene. No one will agree with you that a employee has no responsibility to their customer. You obviously haven't thought this through. Who does the customer sue if he gets mistreated by an employee? The company. The employee is responsible to the company (for giving him wages), and the company is responsible to the customer (for giving it payment). Each is responsible to the entity paying him as part of some kind of a contract (wage for working and keeping rules, and payment for services/goods up to a certain standard). In some cases, the employee is the company, or the person receiving payment directly, but that is not the case here. What wage has Artosis received from YOU, pray tell? None. He is not in any single viewer's debt, neither is he responsible to YOU for anything. Your sense of entitlement is conflating what you want with what people actually owe you.
Maybe read the start of this awesome quote war and find out what he said who he has a responsibility to. The differentiation between responsibility to fans and to the league was just pulled up by Chill as he saw his original "he has no responsibility at all!" argument fail.
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On April 29 2011 05:52 sAfuRos wrote:
Certainly he is. The NASL depends on viewership, and i am a viewer, as are the many disappointed with his mediocre play.
Youre interpreting responsibility in the most non-applicable way possible. An employee has a responsibility to the company, and the company to the customer. If the customer is mistreated, the employee is fired. Its his responsibility to not mistreat the customer, or he gets fired. Fuck all if you don't think thats what responsibility means, the end result is the same; the employee gets fired, and whatever you want to call it doesn't matter.
You really think you're being mistreated here? Is watching Artosis play like burning coffee spilling all over your body? Or like a waiter poisoning your food? Or an insurance salesman selling fraudulent policies? Grow up. Just as he is not obligated to you, you are not obligated to watch the games. Move along.
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I never said i was being mistreated. Stop putting stupid words into my mouth
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On April 29 2011 05:57 sAfuRos wrote:
I never said i was being mistreated. Stop putting stupid words into my mouth
Then what's the big deal? Nobody's done you harm, and I hardly think having Artosis in the tournament is hurting the viewership... if anything, MORE people are watching because of him, for his legacy and also to see somebody who they can perhaps more or less relate to in terms of ability.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:55 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 05:48 Ajax77 wrote:On April 29 2011 05:36 sAfuRos wrote:
This is ridiculous now
You made a comparison to casters not having a responsibility to the viewers. We addressed that mainly, and now you say we did not.
Then you proceed to say that employees have no responsibility to the customer? What the fuck?
Have you ever worked a job where you interact with customers? The first thing you learn is to get down on your knees and lick the shoes of the customer. Employees are ridiculously responsible for the customers.
If i work at a fast food restaurant and give a customer a hour old burger shittily thrown together, i will get fired. Why? Because i'm being irresponsible
Hell, depending on the place, if i swear in front of customer i will get fired (one of my managers at Panera Bread was fired for apologizing "if i seemed like a jackass, its just really busy today."
If my job is tech support, i can't call my customer a stupid fuck even if i help him solve his problem. No job is literally to just fufill the literal definition of the job with no other considerations
You ARE trolling. I understand that you are a mod and everything, but this is obscene. No one will agree with you that a employee has no responsibility to their customer. You obviously haven't thought this through. Who does the customer sue if he gets mistreated by an employee? The company. The employee is responsible to the company (for giving him wages), and the company is responsible to the customer (for giving it payment). Each is responsible to the entity paying him as part of some kind of a contract (wage for working and keeping rules, and payment for services/goods up to a certain standard). In some cases, the employee is the company, or the person receiving payment directly, but that is not the case here. What wage has Artosis received from YOU, pray tell? None. He is not in any single viewer's debt, neither is he responsible to YOU for anything. Your sense of entitlement is conflating what you want with what people actually owe you. Maybe read the start of this awesome quote war and find out what he said who he has a responsibility to. The differentiation between responsibility to fans and to the league was just pulled up by Chill as he saw his original "he has no responsibility at all!" argument fail.
Anyone implied viewers, which I should have explicitely stated. You have a responsibility to the league and its staff.
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On April 29 2011 04:40 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 04:15 dunc wrote:
Doesn't change that there were tons of more qualified people for this NASL than Artosis though. If you apply to something like this you should put in commitment, not make a joke out of the league and yourself. It's disrespectful. If someone is being disrespectful here, that is you. The guy is a great personality and has been helping and promoting the esports scene since god knows when. He just wanted to try his chance, play against the big names, have fun maybe? Or perhaps he just thought he had a chance, whether from an objective point of view he wouldn't or not doesn't matter, what matters is that he just wanted to participate in the NASL. And if he is accepted and trying to do his best, it's nobody's business to call him being disrespectful just because he didn't play like a supergosu and defeated everyone and won the whole thing against the best players in the world.
But where to draw the line? If Husky applied for the NASL and got accepted I think some of the real pros would actually be offended and the general populace would look at the whole thing as a joke. But like Artosis, Husky has a great personality and has, arguably, done a lot more than Artosis in terms of making a ton of casuals aware of the SC2 pro scene. Should he be denied entry because he was never a BW professional player like Artosis? That should be irrelevant because BW and SC2 are two different games. Would skill level be a determining factor? It shouldnt be seeing as how Artosis, IMO, isn't even in the same league as the other NASL players.
Now would it be disrespectful to say Husky doesnt deserve to play in the NASL? I'm not hating on Artosis, I really appreciate the work he's done for the community , but in my mind I take his acceptance into the NASL as seriously as I would Husky's (meaning, not seriously at all).
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Calgary26003 Posts
On April 29 2011 05:52 sAfuRos wrote:
Certainly he is. The NASL depends on viewership, and i am a viewer, as are the many disappointed with his mediocre play.
Youre interpreting responsibility in the most non-applicable way possible. An employee has a responsibility to the company, and the company to the customer. If the customer is mistreated, the employee is fired. Its his responsibility to not mistreat the customer, or he gets fired. Fuck all if you don't think thats what responsibility means, the end result is the same; the employee gets fired, and whatever you want to call it doesn't matter.
If Artosis sucks ass, he won't get into NASL2 or any other invite tournaments.
That's obviously not what people meant when they said "He's responsible to the fans." They mean Artosis has some implicite duty to the viewers to play at a competitive level. I say he doesn't.
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Chill, I think its more like Artosis being a customer..
Think of it like Artosis bought a guitar. (since the NASL had an entry fee).. Just because he bought a guitar, doesnt mean he has to be a Steve Vai or Joe Satriani in skill in his first year owing that guitar.
Then add ontop he is like a Kurt Cobain. He may not be a good guitar player, but he is popular anyways, so people voted him into the league to give him a chance to show himself as a player. Its obvious he WANTS to win, hes just up against much better players and its hard.
So in other words, if you dont like Artosis being in NASL.. then raise the money, and get enough votes yourself to enter NASL 2 and show us how its done. Artosis has paid a large entry fee and sacrificed a shitload to get in NASL, its not like they just invited him because hes a big name.
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Keep in mind though that nobody ever complained when Artosis was applying for NASL!
I can't remember a single person saying that Artosis should not be accepted. The support for him was great and people figured he would be good enough once the league started because he did qualify for GSL when he was playin and he was a pretty good BW player when in training.
NASL had reason to believe that he could compete.
Now after actually seeing him play it's easy to say that there are better players out there right now and suddenly everyone says it was a mistake. Get real people. You wanted him in the league just as much as anyone else when it started.
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On April 29 2011 06:15 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Keep in mind though that nobody ever complained when Artosis was applying for NASL!
I can't remember a single person saying that Artosis should not be accepted. The support for him was great and people figured he would be good enough once the league started because he did qualify for GSL when he was playin and he was a pretty good BW player when in training.
NASL had reason to believe that he could compete.
Now after actually seeing him play it's easy to say that there are better players out there right now and suddenly everyone says it was a mistake. Get real people. You wanted him in the league just as much as anyone else when it started.
Amen.
But I guess, if you're going to go there at all, why don't you people whine about everybody else who has "underperformed" in the NASL. Haypro, Rainbow, QXC, Drewbie, MC and Goody are all winless so far in the NASL, WINLESS, so I would say Artosis is in pretty good company at the moment. The reason you play tournaments is because it's not a given how people will perform, you don't know who's going to be on, and who's going to be off. Cut the guy some slack, and if you just can't bear to watch the games, don't.
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EPT
