Naama basically said that TOP did the same build every game that he himself had done for many weeks and knew it inside-out, he knew that Thor rush was amazing against it and then he kind of won.
In the third game, he knew that reactor Vikings would be very strong against his build because he makes a Raven and won't have enough air control, and then when he noticed that TOP was starting to gain air control and his tank numbers were dwindling, he decided to land Vikings and bring SCVs and attack etc.
So basically they weren't really just lame cheeses but well thought-out moves
On November 27 2010 23:30 IPS.Mardow. wrote: Koreans not as good as in BW yet
There's no current A-level koreans that have transitioned over yet. Just some old household names like BoxeR, NaDa, July who are way past their primes.
oGsTOP is a mid-level korean at best, probably not even a top 10 terran there.. yet he's still fighting for third. I think that says a lot
This is what I was thinking. oGsTOP can be classified, at best, a mid-level Korean terran. Not qualifying for the last two GSLs when your race is one of the best represented says something about his overall skill level.
2. TOP vs. sSKS [Lost Temple] 3. TOP vs.Fruitdealer [Scrap Station] 4. TOP vs. Clide [Xel'Naga Caverns]
all-kill TSL(that everyone says is the best team)
yep TOP sucks proof right there
You are taking three games in a non-important tournament and making a conclusion. Where has been TOP's consistency? How about his mental fortitude? He has choked multiple times when the pressure has gotten to him. You simply cannot be a good player if you are unable to handle adversity.
To be fair, not many players are consistent in SC2. At least from what I can see. The most consistent is HopeTorture. The rest of the tournament winners are not all that consistent imo.
HopeTorture crashed out of both the all-star tournament and GSL3 though. MarineKing has gotten second place twice now so I'm curious to see how well he'll do this time around.
On November 27 2010 23:50 Shakes wrote: This is why we need Artosis commentating, I'm sure as TOP was attacking the tech lab Artosis would be all like "This is actually a tactic I've run into a lot on the Kokrean ladder, a lot of the terrans are doing it, it's very powerful".
Or he might have called TOP a moron and said "you really can't do that anymore".
As it looks like right now south korea will keep on dominating. All the serious "foreigners" are hoping to get sponsors to foot the bill to live and play in south korea in team houses. Meaning all the best talent will still be pooled there.
Why? Because that's where the most organized teams are and where the biggest and (currently) most prestigeous tournament is. Anyone from bronze up can claim they're in a team but unless you're living and breathing starcraft like they do, day in and day out in those team houses you'll be left in the dust.
On November 27 2010 23:52 Coulthard wrote: Just like satanik once said here that koreans were better in bw and everybody was ready to lynch him because they actually grow up in a competitive enviroment,they have bw in tv channels they practiced in team houses,back then even clans had their practice house while foreigners were playing on laggy ladders figuring out everything by themselves. In sc2 things are different,foreigners now have equal opportunities (so far) and as you see the skill gap isnt that big.Although if sc2 is finally accepted as the primary e-sport in korea it will be tough for us to follow.
lol satanik :D, is he stil playing ?
Nah he quit bw 2 years ago,doesnt like sc2 much ;(
On November 27 2010 23:57 Shikyo wrote: Btw for the non-Finnish speakers:
Naama basically said that TOP did the same build every game that he himself had done for many weeks and knew it inside-out, he knew that Thor rush was amazing against it and then he kind of won.
In the third game, he knew that reactor Vikings would be very strong against his build because he makes a Raven and won't have enough air control, and then when he noticed that TOP was starting to gain air control and his tank numbers were dwindling, he decided to land Vikings and bring SCVs and attack etc.
So basically they weren't really just lame cheeses but well thought-out moves
I'm sure. Really naama has been the best performing scandinavian player for quite some time now imo.
and his play style never felt cheesy, just incredibly incredibly solid
On November 27 2010 23:30 IPS.Mardow. wrote: Koreans not as good as in BW yet
There's no current A-level koreans that have transitioned over yet. Just some old household names like BoxeR, NaDa, July who are way past their primes.
oGsTOP is a mid-level korean at best, probably not even a top 10 terran there.. yet he's still fighting for third. I think that says a lot
This is what I was thinking. oGsTOP can be classified, at best, a mid-level Korean terran. Not qualifying for the last two GSLs when your race is one of the best represented says something about his overall skill level.
2. TOP vs. sSKS [Lost Temple] 3. TOP vs.Fruitdealer [Scrap Station] 4. TOP vs. Clide [Xel'Naga Caverns]
all-kill TSL(that everyone says is the best team)
yep TOP sucks proof right there
You are taking three games in a non-important tournament and making a conclusion. Where has been TOP's consistency? How about his mental fortitude? He has choked multiple times when the pressure has gotten to him. You simply cannot be a good player if you are unable to handle adversity.
To be fair, not many players are consistent in SC2. At least from what I can see. The most consistent is HopeTorture. The rest of the tournament winners are not all that consistent imo.
IdrA for example is incredibly consistent, before MLG Dallas he was in the finals of almost every single foreigner tourney he played in and he is one of only 4 players to make the GSL ro32 every single time.
On November 27 2010 23:57 Shikyo wrote: Btw for the non-Finnish speakers:
Naama basically said that TOP did the same build every game that he himself had done for many weeks and knew it inside-out, he knew that Thor rush was amazing against it and then he kind of won.
In the third game, he knew that reactor Vikings would be very strong against his build because he makes a Raven and won't have enough air control, and then when he noticed that TOP was starting to gain air control and his tank numbers were dwindling, he decided to land Vikings and bring SCVs and attack etc.
So basically they weren't really just lame cheeses but well thought-out moves
I'm sure. Really naama has been the best performing scandinavian player for quite some time now imo.
and his play style never felt cheesy, just incredibly incredibly solid
Not if you count Jinro But yes, I really love seeing him in the finals. Would be great to have a finn maybe participate in future GSL if he decides to go for it.
He hasn't done much since his all-kill of TSL. He needs to do well in a tournament, I think not qualifying for GSL twice has hurt his confidence quite alot.
On November 28 2010 00:03 GenoZStriker wrote: WOW! Did we actually deny a Korean top3 placing? Wow nice one.
Definitely not the best koreans participating to say the least...
Err, also very far from the worst. TOP and Inca are extremely good and proven players. I think TOP has some nerve issues and if he can overcome them will be one of the best Terrans in Korea, and Inca is already one of the top Protoss in Korea, probably top 3.
On November 28 2010 00:03 GenoZStriker wrote: WOW! Did we actually deny a Korean top3 placing? Wow nice one.
Definitely not the best koreans participating to say the least...
Err, also very far from the worst. TOP and Inca are extremely good and proven players. I think TOP has some nerve issues and if he can overcome them will be one of the best Terrans in Korea, and Inca is already one of the top Protoss in Korea, probably top 3.
On November 27 2010 23:52 Coulthard wrote: Just like satanik once said here that koreans were better in bw and everybody was ready to lynch him because they actually grow up in a competitive enviroment,they have bw in tv channels they practiced in team houses,back then even clans had their practice house while foreigners were playing on laggy ladders figuring out everything by themselves. In sc2 things are different,foreigners now have equal opportunities (so far) and as you see the skill gap isnt that big.Although if sc2 is finally accepted as the primary e-sport in korea it will be tough for us to follow.
This is so correct, i've been following esports and real sports for a long time. I'm actually amazed at the SC community who seems to think that there's something in the koreans blood or magical powers that automatically make them better than foreigners.
Another example is swedes and Counter-Strike. Sweden was basically dominating the CS-scene for so many years, and it was simply because we had a strong community around it before anyone else.
There's korean CS teams (like wemade fox) who practice a great amount (saw a reportage saying that they practiced 10 hours/day) and live in a team house and everything but when they go out to the big tournaments in europe or wherever they get stomped by teams who practice like 1-2 hours/day. The difference there is that korea doesn't have a strong community around CS and the few teams that exists are secluded from the rest of the community in europe. The swedes constantly plays against the absolute top while'st the koreans rarely get to play against the elite due to latency issues.
There's hope for the "foreign" players to keep up with the koreans in sc2, but the community needs to support them to allow for growth in the european and american communities. What they can't do is what's so constant on these forums, constantly making the koreans out to be some sort of unbeatable force with genes formed for starcraft.
edit: Another thing that needs to be done is blizzard allowing cross-server play.
EPT
But yes, I really love seeing him in the finals. Would be great to have a finn maybe participate in future GSL if he decides to go for it.
