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On October 03 2010 09:12 Madder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2010 05:57 -StrifeX- wrote:On October 03 2010 05:52 Mohdoo wrote:On October 03 2010 05:50 -StrifeX- wrote:
Sweet, Now all the zerg players can't cry their race sucks anymore!!! This is your first competitive game, isn't it? Uhh, nope I played alot of iccup on BW. Nice try though No, I really think SC2 is your first competitive game.. But enough about balance, since you're obviously a Terran player.
that is seriously a ban-worthy comment.
despite being a joke, his comment has merit. A zerg destroyed a host of terran players on route to winning the biggest starcraft 2 tourney ever. and while there are still problems with the race, players not at the highest levels cant complain anymore because there is always to argument look at Cool, hes doing just fine therefore you newbs need to learn to play.
Thats why Idra was all exasperated during the finals because ITR's bad play made Zerg look OP in comparison to Terran. Now when he is frustrated with racial balance all the bronze league newbs will point to fruitdealer troll him telling him to L2P.
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some idiot posted this on Metafilter with the results in the headlines. I am pissed off right now.
can someone with a Metafilter account go and complain.
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Very good series. Finale tournament worthy.
Cool's impeccable play really shocked me and made me his fan.
Yeah, I play Terran, so what?
Good series. Looking forward to the next season for more old legends and more white guys.
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TY Boesthius, I now know you're not a Terran player like some of the other mods are 
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Man, every game was one-sided. I mean it was good to watch Zerg pwnage, but there were far better series in the Ro32. Tester vs. Cool would've been epic.
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Damn I can rewatch these final vods so many times... from the opening ceremony to Cool kissing the trophy. Definantly deserves it place in the Starcraft 2 history book
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On October 03 2010 12:54 wintergt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2010 07:52 Boundless wrote:
It wasn't necessarily "bad", it was just not "finals" level. He didn't play S-class, he played A-class. In the first two games, he went for cutesy harass tactics that Cool repeatedly shut down. However, he continued to go for them, and Cool happily warded them off.
ITR didn't do any of the things that really punishes Zerg, and didn't exploit any of the timings that Terran can pull off when the Zerg player is still in the "early game" stage; this stage is the one at which the Zerg race is very weak. Cool 14 hatched four out of the five games IIRC (four out of five for sure), and ITR did not adapt. He continued to let Cool tech, allowing him to speed to the stage of the game where Zerg is strong.
Case in point. TheLittleOne uses a refinery first build against Zerg that gets an insanely fast Hellion. If the Zerg player is going 14 hatch, then he is almost guaranteed to lose 4-5 drones before he can defend. From there, the Terran can take his natural at his leisure, because he has the units (Hellions) that hard counter the units (Zerglings) that the Zerg player can only make for at least 2-3 minutes. Then tech to Marauder/Thor, get turrets to fend off mutas, push, and win the game.
I would have liked ITR to go for some early attack build like this, since Cool demonstrated his willingness to keep 14 hatching. However, he stuck to hard harass builds until game 4. He then goes for 3 rax mass marine timing push, only to have it stopped by Cool going for an early baneling nest (this was pure luck). However, he manages to win game 4. Instead of saying "Wow, that actually worked" and sticking with it, goes back to his harass builds in G5, and Cool runs him over.
Just not smart. Nice armchair analysis.. he did a tank ledge drop on LT, proxy reaper, early mass marine push.. and before this his strategies OHOK'd everyone.. what were you expecting exactly?
Sure, he tried these things, but he failed so hard in his actual execution. His tank drop on LT could have been so much more powerful had be used 2 tanks rather than 1 tank and 2 scv's, which got killed so quickly by Cool's spine crawlers. His proxy reaper micro was lackluster.
BTW, he won the game with his mass marine build, the one thing he did to take advantage of Zerg's weak earlygame. I'm not sure if you actually watched the series, but if you think that ITR actually played correctly or moderately well, then you are simply wrong.
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Keep in mind Cool is no chump so ITR's play looking lackluster compared to his previously stellar play should be expected. Honestly, watching the finals there was no question the two deserved to be there.
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Just watched the finals. Watching Fruitdealer's play, disregarding any kind of play from Hopetorture, makes me want to play Zerg. His micro-/macromanagement and especially his strategy were simply amazing.
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Request is no longer needed. Thanks.
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game 1-3 were really one-sided imho, HT was too passive and didnt do enough damage early on
game 4 was amazing
game 5 was WTF HOW DO YOU NOT DIE WITH HATCH B4 POOL TO RAX B4 DEPOT SRSLY
all in all very entertaining to watch, nice seeing zerg win
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On October 04 2010 04:49 Boundless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2010 12:54 wintergt wrote:On October 03 2010 07:52 Boundless wrote:
It wasn't necessarily "bad", it was just not "finals" level. He didn't play S-class, he played A-class. In the first two games, he went for cutesy harass tactics that Cool repeatedly shut down. However, he continued to go for them, and Cool happily warded them off.
ITR didn't do any of the things that really punishes Zerg, and didn't exploit any of the timings that Terran can pull off when the Zerg player is still in the "early game" stage; this stage is the one at which the Zerg race is very weak. Cool 14 hatched four out of the five games IIRC (four out of five for sure), and ITR did not adapt. He continued to let Cool tech, allowing him to speed to the stage of the game where Zerg is strong.
Case in point. TheLittleOne uses a refinery first build against Zerg that gets an insanely fast Hellion. If the Zerg player is going 14 hatch, then he is almost guaranteed to lose 4-5 drones before he can defend. From there, the Terran can take his natural at his leisure, because he has the units (Hellions) that hard counter the units (Zerglings) that the Zerg player can only make for at least 2-3 minutes. Then tech to Marauder/Thor, get turrets to fend off mutas, push, and win the game.
I would have liked ITR to go for some early attack build like this, since Cool demonstrated his willingness to keep 14 hatching. However, he stuck to hard harass builds until game 4. He then goes for 3 rax mass marine timing push, only to have it stopped by Cool going for an early baneling nest (this was pure luck). However, he manages to win game 4. Instead of saying "Wow, that actually worked" and sticking with it, goes back to his harass builds in G5, and Cool runs him over.
Just not smart. Nice armchair analysis.. he did a tank ledge drop on LT, proxy reaper, early mass marine push.. and before this his strategies OHOK'd everyone.. what were you expecting exactly? Sure, he tried these things, but he failed so hard in his actual execution. His tank drop on LT could have been so much more powerful had be used 2 tanks rather than 1 tank and 2 scv's, which got killed so quickly by Cool's spine crawlers. His proxy reaper micro was lackluster. BTW, he won the game with his mass marine build, the one thing he did to take advantage of Zerg's weak earlygame. I'm not sure if you actually watched the series, but if you think that ITR actually played correctly or moderately well, then you are simply wrong.
You mean the mass marine build that got instantly hard countered? Cool lost that game for more than one reason - the mass marines wasn't one of the bigger reasons.
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Did I miss a link somewhere to the videos of the match?
When I log in to GOM I can only watch set1 and then a pop up tells me I need to buy a season ticket to watch the other sets. I thought they would let us watch the match for free since they streemed it for free...
Thx for the help
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I just finished watching the games and WOW ! Kim Won Ki has insane game sense, he really deserved to win the whole thing as he seems to always be one step ahead of his opponent all the time, just like a chessmaster.
You can argue that Sung Je could have played better but honestly I don't think any Terran player can beat Won Ki right now in a Bo7 if he's on his A-game.
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I just watched games 2-5 in HQ
man u guys SURE SURE SURE that z is UP and not very very OP ?
I just thought they were up, till I saw those 4 games ... (game 1 was kinda tied ... )
Even the one cool lost he was better, but poor choice of units
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It's funny, the "balance" or lack of in the game actually HURT Terran in this tournament imo.
The reason Cool was so dominant is because he is by far the best Zerg player and no other Zergs really come close. Even Check/Idra are not on his level. And since the population of good Zerg is so low, ITR couldn't really prepare much because there was no one to fight against who had that much skill.
Cool in the Semis/Finals was just pure roflstomp, seeing those Terran armies just implode was amazing
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On October 02 2010 21:42 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2010 21:22 _vladimir_ wrote:
Yes yes, both Morrow and TLO would own Cool in finals and take it easy, same as TLO and Idra did in their rounds of 32, oh wait..
No disrespect to them, but i'm sick of people spaming with comments like "If that XY player was playing, he would do this and that"...yeah well why didn't he?
Stop overrating non Korean players, and underrating Korean players.I'm really curious to see when will non Korean manage to get in ro8/semis, considering how people talk about them, like they are Gods of Starcraft... Why do you put TLO in there with Morrow(I only saw people talk about Morrow, excuse me if there were people saying stuff about TLO too), Morrow is like 10 times better in my opinion. He probably wouldn't have won vs Cool either though but at least he'd have gotten through the TvTs.
This is blasphemy.
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On October 04 2010 04:49 Boundless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2010 12:54 wintergt wrote:On October 03 2010 07:52 Boundless wrote:
It wasn't necessarily "bad", it was just not "finals" level. He didn't play S-class, he played A-class. In the first two games, he went for cutesy harass tactics that Cool repeatedly shut down. However, he continued to go for them, and Cool happily warded them off.
ITR didn't do any of the things that really punishes Zerg, and didn't exploit any of the timings that Terran can pull off when the Zerg player is still in the "early game" stage; this stage is the one at which the Zerg race is very weak. Cool 14 hatched four out of the five games IIRC (four out of five for sure), and ITR did not adapt. He continued to let Cool tech, allowing him to speed to the stage of the game where Zerg is strong.
Case in point. TheLittleOne uses a refinery first build against Zerg that gets an insanely fast Hellion. If the Zerg player is going 14 hatch, then he is almost guaranteed to lose 4-5 drones before he can defend. From there, the Terran can take his natural at his leisure, because he has the units (Hellions) that hard counter the units (Zerglings) that the Zerg player can only make for at least 2-3 minutes. Then tech to Marauder/Thor, get turrets to fend off mutas, push, and win the game.
I would have liked ITR to go for some early attack build like this, since Cool demonstrated his willingness to keep 14 hatching. However, he stuck to hard harass builds until game 4. He then goes for 3 rax mass marine timing push, only to have it stopped by Cool going for an early baneling nest (this was pure luck). However, he manages to win game 4. Instead of saying "Wow, that actually worked" and sticking with it, goes back to his harass builds in G5, and Cool runs him over.
Just not smart. Nice armchair analysis.. he did a tank ledge drop on LT, proxy reaper, early mass marine push.. and before this his strategies OHOK'd everyone.. what were you expecting exactly? Sure, he tried these things, but he failed so hard in his actual execution. His tank drop on LT could have been so much more powerful had be used 2 tanks rather than 1 tank and 2 scv's, which got killed so quickly by Cool's spine crawlers. His proxy reaper micro was lackluster. BTW, he won the game with his mass marine build, the one thing he did to take advantage of Zerg's weak earlygame. I'm not sure if you actually watched the series, but if you think that ITR actually played correctly or moderately well, then you are simply wrong.
He was obviously more afraid of mutalisks killing his tanks than spine crawlers... if he got turrets down on the ledge it would be hard to even spot with an overlord. Same goes with the Kulas ledge - which he was trying to place far enough away that the spines were out of range... but then the roaches were IN range. Never thought I'd see roaches treated as a ranged unit rather than a "might as well be melee" one in such a manner!
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EPT
