National ESL's first Intel Extreme Masters qualification featured some of the best in the America's with Idra, Catz, qxc, Artosis, Thisisjimmy and many more. But in the end it was Silver coming out of the lower bracket and Huk out of the upper bracket. The two Canadians will face tonight at August 2nd 7pm EST (4pm PST / Aug. 3rd - 2am CET / Aug 3rd - 8am Korea). Puremiss from GosuGamers will have a UStream up and you can find that on National ESL's website here VIDEO STREAM.
Intel Extreme Masters Americas Cup #1 Finals Silver vs Huk Start Time: August 2nd 7pm EST (4pm PST / Aug. 3rd - 2am CET / Aug 3rd - 8am Korea) Video Stream:VIDEO STREAM Maps: Best of Five (Toss Toss Pick Pick)
Toss Toss Pick Pick Starting with the lower seed (Silver), each player will "toss" out a map from the map pool. That map is no longer allowed to be picked for play for that match. This alternates between players until 3 maps remain. The higher seed (Huk) picks one of the 3 maps as the first map of the match. The lower seed (Silver) picks one of the 2 remaining maps as the second map of the match. The 1 remaining map is then used as the tie breaker map if a third map has to be played for the match.
Map Pool Steppes of War Blistering Sands Scrap Station Desert Oasis Lost Temple Kulas Ravine Metalopolis
Silver over fograw - (1-0) Silver over wonkman - (1-0) Silver over Dog - (1-0) Silver over PhiliBiRD - (1-0) Silver over Idra - (2-0) Silver over qxc - (2-1) Silver won National ESL's Beta Cup over Pride - 7/14/2010
How Huk got here:
Huk over Kjal - (1-0) Huk over Jobless - (1-0) Huk over Chezmaster - (1-0) Huk over Kelsier - (1-0) Huk over drewbie - (2-1) Huk over Thisisjimmy - (2-1) Huk won National ESL's Kick Off Cup
On August 03 2010 00:54 Chill wrote: Can I request you put the date up instead of 'tonight'? 'Tonight' doesn't really help when we have time zones ranging from PST to KST...
Sorry wrote it for USA, I updated times with day also.
tt, i should have won that game vs silver. g3....that game will haunt me for my sc2 life =/ btw, silver beat huk to advance in the first ESL. something interesting ;0
doesn't silver is that guy that had the really really high elo during the 1st phase of the beta before they started reseting the stats, at like 2500+ pts? :O
On August 03 2010 08:03 eckolove wrote: i just watch idra vs silver and idra is really a funny angry kid..XD silver play better, taking advange of his race and techs.. is that wrong?
Idra clearly macroed better, had a higher food count and better resource management. What failed was his unit composition. He probably shouldn't have gone muta ling against thor and hellions. Even so, it was funny how fast his army got demolished. Silver made the right unit and won, so good on him.
So why the fuck did Silver not repair his bunkers? He would've easily survived those stalkers. I really have to watch the games he played versus IdrA, so far he doesn't really seem like a guy capable of beating IdrA 2-0.
Also this commentator needs to stop saying stupid shit. If you take your 2nd gas at 20 it doesn't mean that you're not going for a heavy warp gate build necessarily. You called HuK a person who plays very standard and doesn't cheese, that's just not true as he is probably the most infamous protoss for doing constant all-ins. Then you say that his phoenix opening to expand is the cheesiest thing you've seen from him, that's not even really a cheese and rather just a tech path less taken but still extremely viable and safe.
Lol apparantly hellions die to immortals in 2 hits and not 5. They're light if you guys didn't know. Silver too good for repairing bunkers btw. Especially after that awesome factory proxy =P
Yeah he has a hard on for immortals I like how he was talking about how fast they kiled bunkers when silver was destroying the attack XD So much for good builds he blind attacked up a protoss ramp which is always a huge huge nono. :p
Koreans really need to start playing already. What kind of 'top players' have 1k minerals off of 1 base..they have no multi-task whatsoever. Its frustrating to watch..
This commentator is terrible...... Atleast get him a color commentator or someone who atleast knows about the game. Really if you want to be a commentator atleast be able to not stumble over words after a sentance.
ON TOPIC: Silver is terrible (LOL at the commentator calling him a pro) and really shows how bad balance is right now when this guy can beat IdrA
That series was horrible. It was just Silver cheesing every single fucking game. The caster was terrible, he missed so much action. (Medivac dying and nuke being made in the Steppes of War, for instance) and is just an autistic child he keeps stuttering so much and is lolmuting himself constantly.
This series was a joke. And the fact that the chat is full of little 10 year olds blabbering on about how Protoss is somehow OP because Huk won a few games just adds even more lulz.
are you serious lol huk decided to stick to this cheap void ray thing while he could've won as he usually does, he deserved to lose this one to just rely on this stupid unit to win the game. Silver actually played really well and did the right choices after getting such huge hits to those void rays
On August 03 2010 09:12 Fruscainte wrote: What the fuck, why did he GG?
He had 2 VR's, and no money for anything else. And he lost at least 40 probes to hellions., while silver still had a sizable army including a raven to detect those 3 dt's.
Huk just throwed the game away. Why the fuck did he sacrafice his main army when he had 7 voidrays? And then his unabillity to make templar or chargelots to punish his marine/viking army. Feel bad for him
huk just stayed with void rays only for too long. they cant hold their ground on their own against a good marine/viking army. he should have transitioned back out of void rays in time...
HuK didn't really have a base guys. He lost the gold and both his main and expo had hardly any minerals left. Meanwhile Silver was coming at him with an army. The caster did a horrible job of looking at the game and made it seem like HuK had the game won, when he didn't. IThe game was a lot closer than it looked and was still well played by both players. Caster's fault for not examining the game well.
Silver isn't noob, but he abuses the strength and versatility of terran. It takes a good terran player to do that, but race balance has to do with that.
On August 03 2010 09:14 Fruscainte wrote: That was such a retarded series, ugh. And the piss poor commentator didn't help.
That guy is honestly the worst commentator I have ever heard for any video game broadcast. That's saying a lot since just about everyone has tried their hand at casting video games, and that guy is the worst.
Really weird series. All in all Silver plays quite strange. I feel Huk should have won game five though, he just got caught in a very bad spot with his Voids.
On August 03 2010 09:15 Antimage wrote: Silver isn't noob, but he abuses the strength and versatility of terran. It takes a good terran player to do that, but race balance has to do with that.
It's too bad Idra didn't win.
atm, terrans just have too many and too strong options for harassing while simultaneously building up a strong army imho. they got the arsenal to exploit pretty much anything.
On August 03 2010 09:15 Antimage wrote: Silver isn't noob, but he abuses the strength and versatility of terran. It takes a good terran player to do that, but race balance has to do with that.
It's too bad Idra didn't win.
Very true, Silver uses the Terran versatility very well. Bunkers, Turrets, Sensor towers. It's pretty much impossible to scout what he's doing.
The problem is the games are just boring. HuK tried many things like fast Obs and mass Void Rays. I'm pretty sure 2/3 base Carriers would be next.
On August 03 2010 09:15 JoshSuth wrote: IdrA is going to have a field day with this.
Very nice job by Silver to cling to life as well as he did as many times as he did.
For those keeping note, Silver just beat three of the eight invitees to the King of the Beta Tournament IN A ROW.
2-0 over IdrA, 2-1 over qxc, and finally 3-2 over HuK.
oh yeah but just cause he SUCK.. like most people say.. im just having a good time reading the comments before this last game end.. people like ''yeah silver suck'' and like u say, he beat ''THE PRO'S'' of sc2.. with this we can see, sc2 sucks is too easy.. all people can win in there..t.t
yeah I don't get people saying he's bad, for beating all those players consistently, and not by cheesing or taking them offguard, sorry but he's strong player actually, this comeback was really genius move, most players would've been stuck there "oh my god void rays are destroying everything and I can't kill them, that's gg"
I didn't know about him but I'm really impressed by his play.
Oh and yeah, this caster... the fuck, just remove him
On August 03 2010 09:14 Fruscainte wrote: That was such a retarded series, ugh. And the piss poor commentator didn't help.
That guy is honestly the worst commentator I have ever heard for any video game broadcast. That's saying a lot since just about everyone has tried their hand at casting video games, and that guy is the worst.
I couldn´t disagree more. I really like Puremiss commentary. It is very hard to singlehandedly cast games but he makes it interesting and entertaining. I also enjoy the music he plays Easily one of the better casters ive seen/heard!
On August 03 2010 09:14 Fruscainte wrote: That was such a retarded series, ugh. And the piss poor commentator didn't help.
That guy is honestly the worst commentator I have ever heard for any video game broadcast. That's saying a lot since just about everyone has tried their hand at casting video games, and that guy is the worst.
I couldn´t disagree more. I really like Puremiss commentary. It is very hard to singlehandedly cast games but he makes it interesting and entertaining. I also enjoy the music he plays Easily one of the better casters ive seen/heard!
...He's horrible. He misses all the action, he talks like an autistic 10 year old he stutters so much, and he's just so unprofessional.
just in case anybody responsible reads this: i agree with the other that this caster was really bad. i appreciate the effort he put into this, but he really lacked both excitement, flair and additionally he was lacking the expertise. a commentator should always at least be either exciting or provide interesting, deep insight into whats going on.
I think the only one who thought it was over and huk won was the caster. It was pretty evident that it was far from over and huk won with those voidrays.
On August 03 2010 09:14 Fruscainte wrote: That was such a retarded series, ugh. And the piss poor commentator didn't help.
That guy is honestly the worst commentator I have ever heard for any video game broadcast. That's saying a lot since just about everyone has tried their hand at casting video games, and that guy is the worst.
I couldn´t disagree more. I really like Puremiss commentary. It is very hard to singlehandedly cast games but he makes it interesting and entertaining. I also enjoy the music he plays Easily one of the better casters ive seen/heard!
...He's horrible. He misses all the action, he talks like an autistic 10 year old he stutters so much, and he's just so unprofessional.
You are extremely harsh here. There are A LOT of worse casters in sc 2, and even if he missed some action i enjoyed his cast. His talk is good, much better than HD and husky and many other casters for example imo.
On August 03 2010 09:23 Lazix wrote: I think its hilarious that the commentator only just dropped short of calling Void Rays imbalanced when he plays Terran!
Yes its that obvious he's a Terran player.
really a groundbreaking insight, considering he literally said "now i know what to do when someone does this mass void ray thing against me".
On August 03 2010 09:11 Puosu wrote: Silver might be the most undeserving tournament winner I've ever seen.
Man, how can you say that, honestly? He worked his ass off for those wins against qxc and HuK... I didn't get a chance to see his games against IdrA, but jeez cut him some slack. What will it take from Silver to gain your respect? He won an ESL cup in beta by walking over HuK, and has just done it again. He's one of the highest people on the ladder at the moment, he got to the quarterfinals Friday night in the Gosucoaching Weekly, and I have a feeling we'll be seeing him again.
On August 03 2010 09:21 Fruscainte wrote: The caster was horrible
Silver is just a cheeser and the commentator was horrible.
"That banshee got 3 kills. So it paid for itself."
3 scv's = 150 minerals
1 banshee = 150 minerals 100 gas
Uh, I'm no mathematician but I don't think that's paid for.
Not to mention him missing the nuke being made, that SIlver never used, he missed the medivac drop being destroyed, uggghhh he was soooooo bad.
I find it exceedingly hilarious that that commentator said that Huk's 2 gate robo push was an "all in cheese"
wtf are you talking about saying silver is just a cheeser, he's far from being a cheeser he has played all game straight up, harassing during the game doesn't make you a cheeser lol, did you ever play broodwar? everybody would be a cheeser
On August 03 2010 09:23 Lazix wrote: I think its hilarious that the commentator only just dropped short of calling Void Rays imbalanced when he plays Terran!
Yes its that obvious he's a Terran player.
really a groundbreaking insight, considering he literally said "now i know what to do when someone does this mass void ray thing against me".
That was him just mopping up when he finally saw it beat. Imagine if HuK won.
On August 03 2010 09:21 Fruscainte wrote: The caster was horrible
Silver is just a cheeser and the commentator was horrible.
"That banshee got 3 kills. So it paid for itself."
3 scv's = 150 minerals
1 banshee = 150 minerals 100 gas
Uh, I'm no mathematician but I don't think that's paid for.
Not to mention him missing the nuke being made, that SIlver never used, he missed the medivac drop being destroyed, uggghhh he was soooooo bad.
I find it exceedingly hilarious that that commentator said that Huk's 2 gate robo push was an "all in cheese"
wtf are you talking about saying silver is just a cheeser, he's far from being a cheeser he has played all game straight up, harassing during the game doesn't make you a cheeser lol, did you ever play broodwar? everybody would be a cheeser
Uh, proxy factory. Proxy rax in Huk's base. I was so bored out of my mind all those games I can't remember all of it though because the commentator put me to sleep.
On August 03 2010 09:28 Nokeboy wrote: How could you hate Puremiss, he has such an innocent voice and hes so kind (and he doesn't act like he knows everything)
He has the best intentions, and I know he's trying, but he sucks. He missed so much pivotal moments in the games, he like I said, stutters like an autistic 12 year old, and has a voice that puts you to sleep. In a bad way.
The more terran wins the more evidence we have against them so I guess this isn't too bad. I just want blizzard to act quickly. (patch please ^^) I'm tired of whining about imba
On August 03 2010 09:29 DISHU wrote: yh huk went all-in void ray but there like a baby with a shotgun dangerous but very weak .heeh geuss idra was rigth damm you idraaaa.
On August 03 2010 09:31 kNyTTyM wrote: The more terran wins the more evidence we have against them so I guess this isn't too bad. I just want blizzard to act quickly. (patch please ^^) I'm tired of whining about imba
Terran isn't Imba, the maps are imba.
Look at the Lost Temple map against IdrA. What could IdrA have done to that tank + marines on the ledge? He coulda transitioned into Muta's, yes, but as soon as T scouted that (which he inevitably would have) he could just make one thor out of that same tech lab factory, lift it over to the high ground, and that thor + 4 marines could hold off like 8 mutas, probably a lot more than that.
It's not that T is imba, the maps are just horrendously T favored.
On August 03 2010 09:31 kNyTTyM wrote: The more terran wins the more evidence we have against them so I guess this isn't too bad. I just want blizzard to act quickly. (patch please ^^) I'm tired of whining about imba
Terran isn't Imba, the maps are imba.
Look at the Lost Temple map against IdrA. What could IdrA have done to that tank + marines on the ledge? He coulda transitioned into Muta's, yes, but as soon as T scouted that (which he inevitably would have) he could just make one thor out of that same tech lab factory, lift it over to the high ground, and that thor + 4 marines could hold off like 8 mutas, probably a lot more than that.
It's not that T is imba, the maps are just horrendously T favored.
pretty much like the old bw lost temple which was also extremely T favored iirc.
I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
Now you're just being mean. Don't take it out on another SC communtiy..cmon man..
That really is a lot of hate against the caster, you don't have to applaud him, but grinding him down like this is really harsh. To observe and cast at the same time is certainly not that easy, don't be so spoiled and help him improve constructively. Thanks for casting, Puremiss
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
And there's the over the top elitist attitude that appears too often on this site.
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
Now you're just being mean. Don't take it out on another SC communtiy..cmon man..
I'm sorry, I'm raging a bit.
But honestly, I was so frustrated that entire cast. The people in the stream were horrible, and the commentator was just bad IMO.
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
Now you're just being mean. Don't take it out on another SC communtiy..cmon man..
I'm sorry, I'm raging a bit.
But honestly, I was so frustrated that entire cast. The people in the stream were horrible, and the commentator was just bad IMO.
Sorry for generalizing an entire community.
Stream chat has and always will be terrible, even for daily Korean Brood War events you see TL'ers saying the most stupid and outlandish stuff, most of which is probably trolling anyways.
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
Now you're just being mean. Don't take it out on another SC communtiy..cmon man..
I'm sorry, I'm raging a bit.
But honestly, I was so frustrated that entire cast. The people in the stream were horrible, and the commentator was just bad IMO.
Sorry for generalizing an entire community.
Stream chat has and always will be terrible, even for daily Korean Brood War events you see TL'ers saying the most stupid and outlandish stuff, most of which is probably trolling anyways.
Puremiss did the best he could I'm sure. The thing I noticed the most was that he got tunnel vision in battles and didn't really keep his eye on the minimap. Also Production tab is your best friend while casting. I appreciated his effort since I at least got to watch the games.
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
ban this moron -_-
How about we ban this moron? Every single time you post its either flaming IdrA and proclaiming that he is ignorant when he has 10x the gaming experiance and tournament results then you? Seriously every single time you post its either a flame against IdrA or some stupid comment complaining about people who have logical arguements. To put it really bluntly hop off IdrA's balls~
On Topic: Terrible series really with very low quality in the gameplay and even lower quality commentating. Huk threw game 5 out the window. He completely punished the guy for not having the game sense to predict void rays (its only desert oasis and he went void rays last game as well) and he couldnt convert....
On August 03 2010 09:37 Fruscainte wrote: I have to say, on a side note, the GosuGaming community is probably the most unintelligent and retarded community I've ever seen. Worse than 4chans even, because at least /b/ has SOME intelligence and swagger to them. These kids on the gosugaming stream, were just so retarded it was mind boggling. VOID RAYS ARE OP. PROTOSS IS OP. THIS COMMENTATOR KNOWS MORE THAN DAY9 DOES.
Of course I'm being overly simplistic of what they said, but seriously, that was the gist of it. They're so stupid. And the commentator only fuels them when he says stuff like, "Pheonix's have no utility against Terran"
God, I feel bad that kids are actually taking stuff like that seriously.
ban this moron -_-
How about we ban this moron? Every single time you post its either flaming IdrA and proclaiming that he is ignorant when he has 10x the gaming experiance and tournament results then you? Seriously every single time you post its either a flame against IdrA or some stupid comment complaining about people who have logical arguements. To put it really bluntly hop off IdrA's balls~
On Topic: Terrible series really with very low quality in the gameplay and even lower quality commentating. Huk threw game 5 out the window. He completely punished the guy for not having the game sense to predict void rays (its only desert oasis and he went void rays last game as well) and he couldnt convert....
quote me where I claim he is ignorant, please
get your facts straight before you start attacking me, but you're right I'm probably far from being a logical being :-) lawl
edit: also it's pretty known to everybody I dislike IdrA, kid has a horrible attitude and he's been flaming me from before you even probably knew starcraft existed, I still never talked about his SC skills, he puts a lot of work and he's very dedicated so obviously he's going to know his stuff and have decent results
On August 03 2010 09:36 HuK wrote: Silver played well and deserved the wins he got so congratz to him.
all the haters and nay Sayers need to sit down because yes he plays terran, no terran isn't op; and he played really well this tournament
This is why you are absolutely awesome.
Very good manner from Huk. At the end of the day, Silver won. But it was hardly entertaining to watch, but hey, he still won.
I thought the games were pretty cool to watch, but I was watching myself, didn't see from commentator's point of view, not sure if you're blaming their play style or the commentator there
On August 03 2010 09:36 HuK wrote: Silver played well and deserved the wins he got so congratz to him.
all the haters and nay Sayers need to sit down because yes he plays terran, no terran isn't op; and he played really well this tournament
This is why you are absolutely awesome.
Very good manner from Huk. At the end of the day, Silver won. But it was hardly entertaining to watch, but hey, he still won.
I thought the games were pretty cool to watch, but I was watching myself, didn't see from commentator's point of view, not sure if you're blaming their play style or the commentator there
About Puremiss: commentary was okay, and honestly I don't expect pro-level commentary from anyone except maybe Day9 who was a former pro; the problem was the camera control. Too many missed drops, harasses, and skirmishes made it SEEM as though the players were retarded even though they were actually fighting on multiple fronts, multi-tasking, etc. Some of the complaints about Silver and/or Huk in these games comes directly from the fact that we weren't able to see most of what they were actually doing. The games weren't bad - we just didn't get to see much of it.
For example, in the Qxc vs. Silver final game, the caster basically focused the camera on Silver's defensive force but completely ignored his offensive army, thus taking the battle totally out of context and making it seem as though Silver was idling with his units while Qxc was mauling through his expo, when he was actually micro'ing his second army in Qxc's base and taking out all the production buildings. The battle happened because Qxc was caught out of position and couldn't respond to the attack at home. Normally, you'd call that a base trade, in which case it was obvious why Silver won: he did more damage than Qxc did. It wasn't "ZOMG MIND BLOWING" at all. It was a natural outcome of Silver's tendency to split his army and drop precisely after his opponent moves out. The same thing happened in Huk's game and it's clear that it's a very integral part of Silver's style to attack on several fronts. But we didn't get to see that, because the caster acted as if there was one battle and only one battle going on at any one time.
I hate to make a pun on his name here, but... Yeah. Pure miss on that one. An advice to the caster, if he's watching this thread: look at the mini-map more, or get someone to ping stuff if you don't think you'll be able to catch it all.
On August 03 2010 09:21 Fruscainte wrote: The caster was horrible
Silver is just a cheeser and the commentator was horrible.
"That banshee got 3 kills. So it paid for itself."
3 scv's = 150 minerals
1 banshee = 150 minerals 100 gas
Uh, I'm no mathematician but I don't think that's paid for.
Not to mention him missing the nuke being made, that SIlver never used, he missed the medivac drop being destroyed, uggghhh he was soooooo bad.
I find it exceedingly hilarious that that commentator said that Huk's 2 gate robo push was an "all in cheese"
I gotta say something here. The commentator might not be very good, but you're exaggerating the level of his mis-analysis. First of all, 3 SCVs is not 150 minerals, and a Banshee is not 150 minerals 100 gas. 3 SCVs is 150 minerals + the time you spent making those SCVs + the missed mining from not having those SCVs. 1 Banshee is 150 minerals 100 gas + the effort you invested into a tech lab starport (presuming you make only 1 Banshee) + the time it took to build that banshee when you could've been building something else.
Whether 3 SCVs is a worthwhile trade for 1 Banshee is not a simple question - it is entirely dependent on when those 3 SCVs die and whether it screws up your opponent's game flow (build order, timing, etc.) more than losing 1 Banshee screws up yours. Nor is Silver just a cheeser. The build he used against Huk, with the floating fac, is the same build IntoTheRainbow used in the KOTB to great effect, and which KawaiiRice used to defeat Huk in the Wolf Cup. It is a common opening in TvP and earns you something even if you don't use the fac for making hellions in his base, since if you're going MMM or fast banshees (as people who go proxy fac typically do), the fac is just a way to get to starport anyways.
Also, fast marine marauder pressure is standard in TvP, and any Terran would exploit an opportunity like the one Huk gave Silver to build a bunker if he could. Usually you bring a SCV to draw fire - as the commentator said - from your army. But if the opponent doesn't see it, then building a bunker out of sight is a smart move and most pros would probably do it if given the chance.
None of the builds that Silver used against IdrA were cheeses, either. They were just strong, map-specific timings that IdrA could not defend against because of Zerg possibly not having a good "safe" build to deny all potential Terran openings. It's not a cheese unless it's a build that would spectacularly fail if the opponent knew it was coming. Tank on a hill is good regardless, since if the opponent doesn't know it's coming, he'll lose his expo, whereas if he knew it was coming, he'll have to sac his economy to make air and/or overlord drop. So either way you gain something as a Terran, and both the tank and the medivac will be useful later game.
Similarly, hellion + thor is standard mech play against Zerg. It's like TLO's tank + thor + marine timing except it uses more thors, more hellions, and less tanks. It's very strong against almost any Zerg build but especially against zergling + muta. That was a straight BO loss by IdrA and you could argue that it's because Zerg can't scout Terran that well. But if so, that's more of an imbalance than a cheese.
On August 03 2010 10:04 Azarkon wrote: About Puremiss: commentary was okay, and honestly I don't expect pro-level commentary from anyone except maybe Day9 who was a former pro; the problem was the camera control. Too many missed drops, harasses, and skirmishes made it SEEM as though the players were retarded even though they were actually fighting on multiple fronts, multi-tasking, etc. Some of the complaints about Silver and/or Huk in these games comes directly from the fact that we weren't able to see most of what they were actually doing. The games weren't bad - we just didn't get to see much of it.
For example, in the Qxc vs. Silver final game, the caster basically focused the camera on Silver's defensive force but completely ignored his offensive army, thus taking the battle totally out of context and making it seem as though Silver was idling with his units while Qxc was mauling through his expo, when he was actually micro'ing his second army in Qxc's base and taking out all the production buildings. The battle happened because Qxc was caught out of position and couldn't respond to the attack at home. Normally, you'd call that a base trade, in which case it was obvious why Silver won: he did more damage than Qxc did. It wasn't "ZOMG MIND BLOWING" at all. It was a natural outcome of Silver's tendency to split his army and drop precisely after his opponent moves out. The same thing happened in Huk's game and it's clear that it's a very integral part of Silver's style to attack on several fronts. But we didn't get to see that, because the caster acted as if there was one battle and only one battle going on at any one time.
I hate to make a pun on his name here, but... Yeah. Pure miss on that one. An advice to the caster, if he's watching this thread: look at the mini-map more, or get someone to ping stuff if you don't think you'll be able to catch it all.
Appreciate this post, one of the few constructive pieces of criticism.
Some people hating on the cast just giving me one liner disses... and that's totally fine to express their thoughts on the cast, but seriously? calling me a (and quote from someone I saw) "10 yr old autistic kid"? Come on, have some common decency here. At least let me know what you did not like about the commentating, so I can address your concerns, instead of just going "He sucks dick" and that's the end of it.
Again if you had an issue with my commentating feel absolutely free to send me a PM or post here. I'll take the time to fully address any concerns you might have and reply back, I'm open for advice. You can say I'm horrible if that's what you think but at least afterwards let me know why you think that, and I will actually read and remember what you have to say.
Hey Puremiss, thanks for responding. I think a lot of people were very frustrated at missing the action, and since they weren't in the mood to actually criticize, they just gave one-liner trashes. I shared some of their frustration as well, but I recognize that this is probably one of your first big casts for SC 2 and hey, it's better to make the mistakes early and to learn from them than to keep making them.
Anyways, I think if you fix the camera issue and be more attentive to unit movements on the mini-map, you'll do fine. Also, ignore the pure haters. There's always a few of those and TL is usually good at straightening them up.
Alright, then I'll leave some more "constructive" criticism Puremiss.
You were not fluent at all, in my opinion, in the way you casted. I can understand that casting something live might be difficult, but you were even doing it on games that you had previously seen. It's something that you should really try to work on. The autistic 10 year old comment may have been overly harsh, but that's really the truth at the core. You were stuttering over yourself persistently throughout the cast, you clearly were trying to go somewhere but you were having a lot of trouble getting there, if you know what I mean. Even if you have to talk slower or not do as much content, I'd rather cover less content and know what the heck you are saying than you just tripping over your words.
Also, sort of coinciding with the last point, you really missed all the action. There are plenty of huge examples already presented, I feel no need to give more. You really should be paying attention to the minimap more.
And lastly, I feel you act really unprofessional and are trying too hard. I mean, throughout the IdrA games you were casting a while ago, you basically spent most of the game laughing about how IdrA nerd rages all the time and how he thinks that T is imbalanced and laughing at him and stuff. I'm sorry, but shouldn't you be sort of explaining why T is not imbalanced to the thousands of people watching instead of just cracking jokes? He had a legitimate point, T has some really unfair advantages on most maps. Paraphrasing here, but the way you said
"Yeah uh, I don't see how T can be imbalanced. He's just raging more, heheh"
Is anything but professional.
Also, take your thing off the APM tab and put it on the Production tab. It will help you notice more, if you see something (like a nuke) being made on the corner of your eye.
Puremiss: One thing you should take care about your commentary is being more neutral and not say what a player should or shouldn't be doing (like yesterday you were saying: "OHHH silver what are you doing you have to move the army that way" or something like that) I think that really doesn't add much to the commentary, and in case you do it just do it from a more analytical and not so emotional point of view.
anyways thanks for casting the matches, they were really fun ^^
On August 03 2010 09:36 HuK wrote: Silver played well and deserved the wins he got so congratz to him.
all the haters and nay Sayers need to sit down because yes he plays terran, no terran isn't op; and he played really well this tournament
Very glad to hear a TOP PLAYER say that terran isn't op.
if president obama said pigs can fly would you believe it? ..doesn't matter who says it ..stats don't lie.
Name the last time a terran player won a big tournament.
I'm not even saying terran isn't the best race, it just annoys me how people go on about how unbeatable they are, and yet every single big tournament has been won by a zerg or protoss ever since Lucifron won that monthly Go4sc2 final way back in the middle of the beta... (or if you want to count maka's win of ASM-1, Im not sure what the prizepool was).
Well to be fair, holding the top of the ladder is respectable, but it can be done by just massing games. All ladders that I've seen have players at the top that just PLAY ALOT, win a lot, but lose a lot, like a lot of normal players. As long as you are winning more than you are losing amd you play more than anyone else, you will be at the top
also to be fair, I think huk has gotten more attention than he deserves, he hasn't taken a series from any reputable players, so if a player can't beat any reputable players, why are they being invited to tournaments against reputable players. If he doesn't start winning series against good players, then huk will fade and someone will take his place
hopefully he shows us something in HDH2, but if he is eliminated early (which I think he will be) I really hope he stops taking up spots in tournaments like KOTB where someone that can compete better can take that spot, such as Sen :/
On August 03 2010 11:39 Unfurl wrote: Well to be fair, holding the top of the ladder is respectable, but it can be done by Just massing games. All ladders that I've seen have players at the top that Just PLAY ALOT, Win a lot, but lose a lot, like a lot of normal players. As long as you are winning more than you are losing amd you play more than anyone else, you will be at the top
also to be fair, I think Huk has gotten more attention than he deserves, he hasn't taken a series from any reputable players, so if a player can't beat any reputable players, why are they being invited to tournaments against reputable players. If he doesn't Start winning series against good players, then Huk will fade and someone will take his place
hopefully he shows us something in HDH2, but if he is eliminated early (which I think he will be) I Really hOpe he stops taking up spots in tournaments like KOTB Where someone that can compete better can take that spot, such as Sen :/
Why do you make posts like this? Series won against: DIMAGA, White-Ra, TLO, Morrow, Qxc, Socke. He may not be the best in the world but the kid is legit and definitely at times beating reputable players. Check your facts next time.
On August 03 2010 11:39 Unfurl wrote: Well to be fair, holding the top of the ladder is respectable, but it can be done by Just massing games. All ladders that I've seen have players at the top that Just PLAY ALOT, Win a lot, but lose a lot, like a lot of normal players. As long as you are winning more than you are losing amd you play more than anyone else, you will be at the top
also to be fair, I think Huk has gotten more attention than he deserves, he hasn't taken a series from any reputable players, so if a player can't beat any reputable players, why are they being invited to tournaments against reputable players. If he doesn't Start winning series against good players, then Huk will fade and someone will take his place
hopefully he shows us something in HDH2, but if he is eliminated early (which I think he will be) I Really hOpe he stops taking up spots in tournaments like KOTB Where someone that can compete better can take that spot, such as Sen :/
Why do you make posts like this? Series won against: DIMAGA, White-Ra, TLO, Morrow, Qxc, Socke. He may not be the best in the world but the kid is legit and definitely at times beating reputable players. Check your facts next time.
Huk has won a lot of tournaments sure, but were you watching those games against Silver? Colossi scouting 4tw? I don't see how a player of that quality can continue winning once solid mechanical players start settling into their builds.
On August 03 2010 22:58 comis wrote: Huk has won a lot of tournaments sure, but were you watching those games against Silver? Colossi scouting 4tw? I don't see how a player of that quality can continue winning once solid mechanical players start settling into their builds.
If you've watched the games against Silver, Huk shows a lot of brilliance in little things like cutting off retreat paths before the enemy even realizes they should retreat.
Mistakes are made all the time, and it's easier to cut out those mistakes/practice mechanics than to learn things like thinking ahead.
On August 03 2010 11:39 Unfurl wrote: Well to be fair, holding the top of the ladder is respectable, but it can be done by Just massing games. All ladders that I've seen have players at the top that Just PLAY ALOT, Win a lot, but lose a lot, like a lot of normal players. As long as you are winning more than you are losing amd you play more than anyone else, you will be at the top
also to be fair, I think Huk has gotten more attention than he deserves, he hasn't taken a series from any reputable players, so if a player can't beat any reputable players, why are they being invited to tournaments against reputable players. If he doesn't Start winning series against good players, then Huk will fade and someone will take his place
hopefully he shows us something in HDH2, but if he is eliminated early (which I think he will be) I Really hOpe he stops taking up spots in tournaments like KOTB Where someone that can compete better can take that spot, such as Sen :/
Why do you make posts like this? Series won against: DIMAGA, White-Ra, TLO, Morrow, Qxc, Socke. He may not be the best in the world but the kid is legit and definitely at times beating reputable players. Check your facts next time.
Huk has won a lot of tournaments sure, but were you watching those games against Silver? Colossi scouting 4tw? I don't see how a player of that quality can continue winning once solid mechanical players start settling into their builds.
You assume HuK will stay stagnant and can't improve in the same rate. And bringing up a few games were he didn't play too well doesn't prove anything. All top players have bad games and make mistakes.
On August 03 2010 09:36 HuK wrote: Silver played well and deserved the wins he got so congratz to him.
all the haters and nay Sayers need to sit down because yes he plays terran, no terran isn't op; and he played really well this tournament
Very glad to hear a TOP PLAYER say that terran isn't op.
if president obama said pigs can fly would you believe it? ..doesn't matter who says it ..stats don't lie.
Name the last time a terran player won a big tournament.
I'm not even saying terran isn't the best race, it just annoys me how people go on about how unbeatable they are, and yet every single big tournament has been won by a zerg or protoss ever since Lucifron won that monthly Go4sc2 final way back in the middle of the beta... (or if you want to count maka's win of ASM-1, Im not sure what the prizepool was).
I assume by "big tournament" you're limiting it to invitationals with big prize money on the line, of which there have hardly been any since Terran domination kicked in?
All of the recent tournaments I can think of (Go4SC2, Zotac, Craftcup, GosuCoaching, IOL, WTA etc) have been dominated by Terran, except for the KOTB, which still had 2 Terran in the top 4.
Just look at the GosuGamers rankings, where, based on recent results, 23 of the top 40 players are Terran (with 9 Protoss and 8 Zerg making up the numbers).
It's not even as if there are just 2 or 3 supremely skilled Terrans dominating (like with the other races); there have been dozens of different T players putting up great results lately (Strelok, Demuslim, Sjow, Silver, ThesTc, Maka, Ensnare, QXC, yourself, Morrow, Jimpo, Cloud, Tarson, Loner, Drewbie etc). Every tournament lately seems like the same few Protoss and Zerg faces trying (often unsuccesfully) to battle through a sea of Terrans.
Doesn't seem right to just say that a certain race is OP when every single race has its advantages and disadvantages, and also nobody HAS to play any race or even play sc2, its everyones choice which to play, so if someone thinks terran is sooo much better than all the others than why dont they just play terran-win-and shut up about it? I personally thought Silver did a great job, im no pro but i am reasonable and i think if you win against such amazing talent than you are doing great, its not like HuK and IdrA dont know how to stop a good terran player or else they wouldnt be so badass, its just the fact that Silver won those specific games when it counted the most, so i think those talking trash about Silver or Terran should really rethink their comments. Hell even HuK commented on how Silver did well. Although I doubt IdrA would do the same, honestly i personally was a fan of IdrA and always found his comments funny until these games against Silver where he kept on and on, I dont think that anyone being payed to play professionally should be able to do that in a tournament match, but thats just my opinion.
congrats silver!!! nice job beating IdrA even if the games were short.
Isn't exploiting someones weakness the entire point of this game? I am pretty surprised people are bashing Silver for winning, no matter whether the strategies were cheesy or not.
silver very impressive job, he beat qxc idra and huk one after the other defo a big up and comer to watch out for.
And to anyone who says HuK isnt good, you're just retarded, HuK has probably won more tournaments than anyone else in battle.net so far. both in NA and EU.
EPT![[image loading]](http://gfx.esl.eu/media/us/esl_us_images/sc2/iemcup.jpg)
.
Easily one of the better casters ive seen/heard!
