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Razer StarCraft II Beta Domination announced - Page 36

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Strelok
Profile Joined January 2006
Ukraine320 Posts
May 08 2010 04:43 GMT
#701
I have my opinion about obses. There is 1 offciail stream of every tournament. Why the hell every site has to put his streamer in the game? More then that, they usually put 2 streamers. I think there has to be 1 offciil stream of the tournament and no more. Because honestly i'm pretty tired to wait first until game starts, because some streamers didn't finish eating or having problems with computer or whatever, and then asking streamers to exit from game which i did numeriously in game 1.
mfZOR
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia49 Posts
May 08 2010 05:08 GMT
#702
I just dont understand why the ob's didn't just leave straight away. Its common knowledge alt tabbing in game lags the game. When 1 ob alt tabbed, lagged the game, ob was asked to leave. Obviously didn't respond cause HE"S NOT IN THE GAME! When he did come back... asked to leave then complained that 'he's on a 40mb connection' and it cant be him..

Fuck off idiot, players > obs anyday.
r4ptur3
Profile Joined May 2010
United States30 Posts
May 08 2010 05:08 GMT
#703
On May 08 2010 13:13 TeWy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 13:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are.
These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.

Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game.
There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.

Playing without lag is holy as long as there's obses in the game anyone can ask them to leave. Clearly the admins fully agreed with all the requests. When it comes to lag an admin is an extension of a players experience. And yes an English stream is a lot more universal so it has privilege over anything else for that reason. These are things that are really obvious.


Yes, it is obvious that an English TL member will always defend the English TL stream no matter what, but this is your personal opinion...
Try to make it a rule if you like, but don't blame people for not doing what you want them to do because these kind of attitudes wouldn't help professionalizing e-sports.


I would agree with you if this was just Nazgul talking. But both players asked observers to leave. How do you justify not respecting the players' opinions? It is pure goodwill on their part to let people stream at all, its not like you have a RIGHT to stream. And in terms of pure numbers, english is indeed the most-spoken language in the world (I can link you to some very trustworthy data on the matter). Thats a fact, not an opinion.
TeWy
Profile Joined December 2009
France714 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 06:06:23
May 08 2010 05:54 GMT
#704
On May 08 2010 14:08 r4ptur3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 13:13 TeWy wrote:
On May 08 2010 13:02 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are.
These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.

Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game.
There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.

Playing without lag is holy as long as there's obses in the game anyone can ask them to leave. Clearly the admins fully agreed with all the requests. When it comes to lag an admin is an extension of a players experience. And yes an English stream is a lot more universal so it has privilege over anything else for that reason. These are things that are really obvious.


Yes, it is obvious that an English TL member will always defend the English TL stream no matter what, but this is your personal opinion...
Try to make it a rule if you like, but don't blame people for not doing what you want them to do because these kind of attitudes wouldn't help professionalizing e-sports.


I would agree with you if this was just Nazgul talking. But both players asked observers to leave. How do you justify not respecting the players' opinions? It is pure goodwill on their part to let people stream at all, its not like you have a RIGHT to stream. And in terms of pure numbers, english is indeed the most-spoken language in the world (I can link you to some very trustworthy data on the matter). Thats a fact, not an opinion.


Your point is that when a game starts to lag, all the non-english non-TL streamers have to gtfo ? Or that players should always decide who can stay or gtfo ?
I don't believe that any of these rules is transcendent enough to impose itself naturally..
O and btw, English is not the most-spoken language in the world, it is Chinese.

EDIT: English is the 3rd one, after Spanish, so be careful with your arguments.
HubertFelix
Profile Joined April 2010
France631 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 06:02:22
May 08 2010 05:59 GMT
#705
Tewy are you a millenium streamer or something ? It's just obvious that if there's only one stream between english/russian/french (russian&french were kicked i think) it as to be the english one...

r4ptur3
Profile Joined May 2010
United States30 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 06:06:38
May 08 2010 06:06 GMT
#706
Yes, players can tell anyone to gtfo. Its their game, they didnt sign a contract or anything, i dont see how this could possibly even be a point of debate.

Sorry Tewy, I didnt express myself clearly. What I meant was most spoken language on the internet (so potential viewers).

"A study on the presence of Romance languages on the Internet, published by the Latin Union in collaboration with FUNREDES, showed that as of November 2007, 45% of the webpages were written in English, 3.8% in Spanish, 4.41% in French, 2.66% in Italian, 1.39% in Portuguese, 0.28% in Romanian and 5.9% in German.[2]

Chinese is the most spoken native language on Earth, and the second most-used language by Internet users."

This is just wikipedia (link), but i can dig out more reliable sources if you want.
Lylat
Profile Joined August 2009
France8575 Posts
May 08 2010 08:11 GMT
#707
I think Blizzard should add a kick command ingame, then we'll avoid this kind of problem
Technique
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands1542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 08:41:04
May 08 2010 08:38 GMT
#708
Heh i come from cnc games where it was 1 streamer + his co caster max to cut down on the lag... why would you put multiple streamers in? We just had 2 reliable streamers and they tried to stream as many different games as possible and then just one of them would do the finals thats the best way imo... sc2 handles it a bit better so you could probably do 2 reliable streamers + co casters in 1 game and just take the right to stream away if they are asked to leave and fail to do so... its simple .
If you think you're good, you suck. If you think you suck, you're getting better.
gogogadgetflow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 08:51:45
May 08 2010 08:51 GMT
#709
On May 08 2010 15:06 r4ptur3 wrote:
Yes, players can tell anyone to gtfo. Its their game, they didnt sign a contract or anything, i dont see how this could possibly even be a point of debate.

Sorry Tewy, I didnt express myself clearly. What I meant was most spoken language on the internet (so potential viewers).

"A study on the presence of Romance languages on the Internet, published by the Latin Union in collaboration with FUNREDES, showed that as of November 2007, 45% of the webpages were written in English, 3.8% in Spanish, 4.41% in French, 2.66% in Italian, 1.39% in Portuguese, 0.28% in Romanian and 5.9% in German.[2]

Chinese is the most spoken native language on Earth, and the second most-used language by Internet users."

This is just wikipedia (link), but i can dig out more reliable sources if you want.

For anyone who thinks *the internet* is an unfair measure of which language is most understood, this site has some really relevant statistics and proves that english is most understood (even in Europe).
Nitro68
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
France470 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 09:22:58
May 08 2010 09:11 GMT
#710
The problem I see is (for instance) millenium streamed 90%+ games of Razer domination while Day[9] or GLHF streamed less games. And then, it's the final and all the "lesser" streams have to leave... (YoGo was the co-caster and leaved the game).

I agree the english stream is the universal one, but if you only want this one your global coverage will not be as good.

Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...

I'm not part of Millenium, but I'm just happy I can watch lots of Zotac or Razer games when Day[9] or GLHF.tv are not streaming...

The real big problem I see in game 2 was that there was lag but no dropbox :/
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 10:02:38
May 08 2010 09:53 GMT
#711
On May 08 2010 18:11 Nitro68 wrote:

Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...



Probably because he was asked to leave but didn't.

And streamers should leave if the game lags and the players ask them to, I can't see how this is even up for debate.
Glider
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States1353 Posts
May 08 2010 09:57 GMT
#712
On May 08 2010 12:55 TeWy wrote:

Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are.
These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.

Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game.
There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.



In a tournament or game, content stream is only worth a damn on the foundation that the players are playing to their ability/potential. Streamers are content deliverers, they have ZERO value by themselves, it's absurd for content deliverer to continue delivery if doing so screws up the very game play/content they are serving.

Regardless of who is in charge of the tournament, the highest priority should be to ensure the player can play in an environment without handicap that can be avoided (in this case lag). So any sensible admin should agree the player can ask any obs to gtfo.

If only 1 or 2 streamer can be kept, obviously it should be the most received and understood ones in order to benefit most amount of people. In this case.. english.

It's not even a big problem since other streamers can just stream the rep right after.
zTz
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States476 Posts
May 08 2010 10:12 GMT
#713
Wow Tewey your a real moron for trying to make a case that the lagger was being told to leave because he was not a TL English streamer...

It's a tournament... Money and bragging rights on the line During a sponsored event. When lag interferes with gameplay, it must be removed. Is that not comprehensible to you? -- as was mentioned by a previous thread poster, obs are guest invited to front row viewings (rather than releasing replays for casting...)

Also your a moron x2 for claiming Chinese is the most spoken language world wide. That useless fact migh be true but I don't see international events, world summit meetigs, business deals, or mergers and aquisitions being done in Chinese. Your from France and you speak fluent English, as done almost every othe person international. Thanks.
where's the rants n flames section?
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
May 08 2010 11:23 GMT
#714
can refs kick obses out or something btw? I recall during GC3 Lz's casting partner reminding him to ref himself because there are too many obses.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
May 08 2010 11:28 GMT
#715
oh yeah and a slightly more ontopic- dimaga's ability to recover is phenomenal, he totally shouldve lost the blistering game, its not like his defense was even as good as Day tried to make it out to be he definitely lost a couple unnecessary queens
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Skeggaba
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1556 Posts
May 08 2010 11:34 GMT
#716
What was the prize pool for this tournament? Cant find it on the web site ..
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
May 08 2010 11:39 GMT
#717
1st-250
2nd-100
3rd 50
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
UbiNax
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark381 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-08 12:34:53
May 08 2010 12:32 GMT
#718
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 08 2010 12:55 TeWy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 11:25 DeMusliM wrote:
Well i'd just like to say gz Dimaga before i say anything else - he's the guy i always like to meet at the end of a tournament rather than the start - (when we were both placed in the same group at the start of this tournament, i must say i was a little torn about it). But thankfully we met again in the end! Group B ftw.

Ok, but about the obs that just wouldn't leave in the 2nd game, i cannot express how angry this made me - If i was lagging, and i was an observer - i would not hesitate for a second to leave, i class it just as common decency - i ALMOST think of it as rude to lag (as it usually hints at downloading/tabbing) but obviously at times people just can't help it which is why they should leave.
Now, i waited for a long time with the game paused and i asked over 10x for people to leave and just let day9 stay, some people left - thanks for that, some people didn't and so the game was just a mess. Any observer, i don't care if your streaming - if your ruining the game, just leave - this should be implemented into everyones mindset - it is the players first, then admins, then the streamers - not the other way round.
I was pretty damn mannered about it, and a player, ANY player should not have to ask 10x and get ignored - especially when it's a bloody final and these guys are holding up everyone.
After this situation i was just soooo angry, i don't think i need to tell anyone here, since we're all gamers - once your frustrated you play alot worse.

What also didn't help was, some people took it upon themselves to spam me with abuse, or spam "WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" over and over again, one name i remember was "TRES" who wouldn't stop talking - then went on to flame me constantly and yes, spam my screen with garbage - unfortunately dnd doesn't work properly or bugs sometimes, and i had to play game 4 with that going on.
I dunno when this became the norm, as i remember someone interfering with TLO vs White-ra also telling him what whitera was doing and when.
Obviously this isn't everyone doing this, but this has become a pretty big problem without DND working correctly, and i can't remember when a minority of people became such assholes.

So to finish it off - the people that left the game when asked, thanks for respecting the players themselves and the tournament, and the viewers on the rest of the streams. As for the guys who spoilt the game - well, hope their legs fall off? %)


Few things that you should take into consideration, it wasn't yours nor TeamLiquid's tournament, so neither of you or Day9 have any rights to order people to gtfo a game, no matter what your reasons are.
These kind of decisions should be left to a razer-domination admin.

Second thing, Day9 wasn't the only streamer, I know it might seem weird considering how good his comments usually are, but some people either don't like hearing english, can't comprehend it, or don't appreciate Day9's way of commentating a game.
There were several hundreds people watching some of these different streams, so you can't simply order people to shut them down when you feel like it.


Are you serious TeWy? it have nothing to do with if its DeMuSlims tournament or Teamliquids if players ask obs/streamers to leave the game " in any tournament " duo to lag and are willing to let a few streamers stay behind without cocasters then that should be it, obs and streamers should leave, and i assume the reason why he wanted Day9 to stay is because its an english stream which have WAAAAY way more veiwers than ANY of the other streams, Day9s stream had the majority of the veiwers on his channel

it is beyond me why they didnt remake game 2 and only invite 1-3 streamers without co casters
Nitro68
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
France470 Posts
May 08 2010 12:52 GMT
#719
On May 08 2010 18:53 Longshank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 18:11 Nitro68 wrote:

Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...



Probably because he was asked to leave but didn't.

And streamers should leave if the game lags and the players ask them to, I can't see how this is even up for debate.


He was not asked to leave. Day9 asked him 3 times if he was streaming and he said yes 3 times.

Strelok asked Day9 to leave in the 3rd place final and he didn't.

I just dont think it's fair to ask people to leave when they were not lagging in game 1.

Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
May 08 2010 14:12 GMT
#720
On May 08 2010 21:52 Nitro68 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On May 08 2010 18:53 Longshank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2010 18:11 Nitro68 wrote:

Streamers should leave if the dropbox appears with their name (like "superxpym") but why are you speacking of TheBest ? As far as I know, he was never on dropbox, was streaming and do not lag while streaming a ton of games...



Probably because he was asked to leave but didn't.

And streamers should leave if the game lags and the players ask them to, I can't see how this is even up for debate.


He was not asked to leave. Day9 asked him 3 times if he was streaming and he said yes 3 times.

Strelok asked Day9 to leave in the 3rd place final and he didn't.

I just dont think it's fair to ask people to leave when they were not lagging in game 1.



Demuslim asked all obs but Day9 to leave didn't he?

What are you suggesting, that the players need some kind of evidence of someone lagging before asking them to leave? If it's unplayable, there's a load of obs and no telling which one slows it down the only solution is to bring it down to a minimum, the required admin(s) and the main stream(in this case Day9) staying.

You can't expect the players to make the decission of which of the lesser streamers may stay and which one will have to leave. First of all it's a big hassle when they should be focusing on the game, secondly, imagine the flamefest if ONLY the German streamer was asked to leave with no actual hint of him lagging.

Life's unfair, get used to it.
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