• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:56
CEST 05:56
KST 12:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation5$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced4Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles5[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
i aint gon lie to u bruh... ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 582 users

[Discussion] Top 5 go-to builds for all 6 matchups

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Kiaph
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
112 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-21 00:16:05
October 21 2020 00:12 GMT
#1
I would like to discuss this topic, because we now have the knowledge that changes in the meta will depend almost entirely on discovery, and ofcourse talent.

What are your go to builds ( up to 5 ) for any given match up?

Perhaps we can even get a poll going once we have a big enough pool of builds to choose from.

Builds do not have to be exact ,

Things like "Early oracle aggression into macro play" is pleanty of information. My goal with this thread is to find what people like to play , be it for aggression or defensive purposes.

Exact build orders , or short summary of previous/ideal games is totally welcome. Honestly I am really excited to dive head first into the meta knowing that it isn't going to suddenly change.


Then ofcourse use the discussion to better choose my off race play styles , and maybe even tempt me to try something new as a Terran.


Thank you for posting
Sprog
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand83 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-21 00:40:23
October 21 2020 00:29 GMT
#2
I only play P.

v T

1 Gate Expand. Twilight follow up with blink. Eventually adding robo - immo colossus.
2 Gate Aggro into expand (max pax or at home). Follow up with twilight, charge, stalker blink, dt blink. All round more a gateway centric style.

vZ

1 Gate Expand into mass gates with a sentry centric gateway push. Take a third at move out or before and tech into immortals etc
1 Gate 1 Stargate Expand.
1 Gate Expo. 3-5 gate and 2 robo follow up for a sentry stalker immortal push.

vP
Hold early cannon rush into disruptor
Hold early 2 adepts into skytoss battles.
Kiaph
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
112 Posts
October 21 2020 01:43 GMT
#3

vP
Hold early cannon rush into disruptor
Hold early 2 adepts into skytoss battles


Please tell me that these 2 are not the only varients in the pvp meta right now

Makes me so thankful to be a Terran
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
687 Posts
October 21 2020 22:17 GMT
#4
On October 21 2020 10:43 Kiaph wrote:
Show nested quote +

vP
Hold early cannon rush into disruptor
Hold early 2 adepts into skytoss battles


Please tell me that these 2 are not the only varients in the pvp meta right now

Makes me so thankful to be a Terran

PvP is also chock full of proxies (proxy 3-4 gate, proxy immortal, even proxy VR sometimes). Always an adventure.

PvP:
2 gate stalker stalker sentry sentry expand, blink, fast third + a few extra gates -> blink disruptor
2 gate adept adept stargate phoenix -> robo + fast third -> immortal archon chargelot

I'm a bit greedy aren't I

PvT:
blink 3 gate robo fast third -> blink charge 7 gate -> double robo colossus -> disruptor -> lose
2 gate robo fast colossus -> third -> blink (charge if 2 base tank push) -> disruptor -> lose

Been having a bit of trouble here I'm afraid

PvZ:
Zest 4 gate gladept -> blink disruptor
4DT archon drop -> blink disruptor
Oracle fast third -> immortal archon chargelot storm

I'm a P main, but I play a fair bit of off race:

TvP:
mine drop into 3 rax with tanks, second factory for mines + tanks -> lots of multiprong -> lose

TvZ:
2-1-1 into bio mine into lose because not enough multitask
hellion BC into battle mech
the brick (hellions, fast third CC double ebay -> 8rax marine tank allin)

TvT:
2 reaper 2 hellion -> marine tank (2 fact) -> 2 starport viking lib

ZvP:
3 base roach -> hydra lurker viper
4 base hydra ling bane -> hydra lurker viper

ZvT:
queen ling, fast lair -> muta/bane/evos, -> ling bane ultra

ZvZ:
31 hatch bane nest, pump a few lings, mass +1 attack roaches -> 4 base hydra lurker viper
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
Kiaph
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
112 Posts
October 22 2020 03:17 GMT
#5
PvP:
2 gate stalker stalker sentry sentry expand, blink, fast third + a few extra gates -> blink disruptor
2 gate adept adept stargate phoenix -> robo + fast third -> immortal archon chargelot


I noticed that these both utilize 2 gateway play, does the build that does 2 adept pressure also use 2 gateways?
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
687 Posts
October 22 2020 05:01 GMT
#6
On October 22 2020 12:17 Kiaph wrote:
PvP:
Show nested quote +
2 gate stalker stalker sentry sentry expand, blink, fast third + a few extra gates -> blink disruptor
2 gate adept adept stargate phoenix -> robo + fast third -> immortal archon chargelot


I noticed that these both utilize 2 gateway play, does the build that does 2 adept pressure also use 2 gateways?

Yeah! PvP is super standard in the early game, it's something like 14 pylon, 16 gateway, 17 gas, 18 gas, 19 gate, 21 core, 22 pylon, or so, so you end up with 2 gas + 2 gates, where the second gateway finishes at almost the same time as the core so you start both of your initial units at the same time, and those two initial units are the first major branch point in PvP build orders. 2x stalker gives you a bit more muscle, but 2x adept gives you a bit more map control by threatening to do damage. Stalker/sentry is another common option, giving you a fast hallucination scout, but it's fallen out of favor a bit lately since your unit count is a bit low initially.

The next major decision is when you choose to take the natural expansion, so I tend to favor a faster expansion when building stalkers, since I stay home with them, and I tend to favor tech when going adepts, since I have more chances to do damage. There are a lot of spins on this though, and I don't play enough that I can say my spin is correct.
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
Odowan Paleolithic
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States232 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-22 10:54:37
October 22 2020 10:48 GMT
#7
Haven't off raced enough to call a build. Mostly P. I play very differently.

Opening:

12 pylon 14 gate double probe scout

vs T

(attempt to delay CC/ fac with 2 zealots) core before nexus then stargate into fleet beacon, 1 or 2 carrier and take the 3rd sometimes cannon in mineral line before 1st carrier based on scouting.

The game is usually decided around or before the 1st carrier timing.

vs cyclone rush I can hold with 1st voidray and 2 battery but will be behind

vs any tech push I just have to kite non-stim marine with 1/2 carriers.

vs hard stim timing try get charge on time. I rarely see anyone do this since the current flavor is hellion/mines which delays stim.


vs P

(attempt to kill first pylon with 2 zealot) gate expand or core expand then stargate, switch to twilight dt after 2nd void ray

The game will boil down to 4 scenarios: A. chargelot archon vs mass pheonix/void ray. B. favorable defense and evolve to carrier archon/snipe observer and dt vs whatever. I can count on my fingers the times I lost to disruptors. C. Mass archon on more bases vs turtle skytoss. D. Mostly immortal / void rays + a few archons when playing against mass gateway/CIA.

vs Z

possibly nexus first when 1st probe meet hatch then twilight after stargate > 2 void ray + ~6 chargelot/2dt+4 chargelot whilte to kill 3rd while taking own 3rd and building 1st carrier add storm after 3rd finish.

If muta build cannons and sack void rays/chargelot. 1/2 carrier can usually hold initial wave, more archons and try to look for fight almost immediately after 1st/2nd engagement.

If swarmhost, build a few more air units and just go kill....

If hydra add storm. The first zerg attack usually decides the pace of the game. If it is held efficient enough

If roach corruptor add void ray (snipe overseer and warp dt).

If long game vs lurkers deny bases and add even more air units.

Edit: add details on specific responses.
I need a bigger fridge. I cannot hold all the Cheese that are given to me.
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
687 Posts
October 22 2020 14:36 GMT
#8
On October 22 2020 19:48 Odowan Paleolithic wrote:
Haven't off raced enough to call a build. Mostly P. I play very differently.

Opening:

12 pylon 14 gate double probe scout

vs T

(attempt to delay CC/ fac with 2 zealots) core before nexus then stargate into fleet beacon, 1 or 2 carrier and take the 3rd sometimes cannon in mineral line before 1st carrier based on scouting.

The game is usually decided around or before the 1st carrier timing.

vs cyclone rush I can hold with 1st voidray and 2 battery but will be behind

vs any tech push I just have to kite non-stim marine with 1/2 carriers.

vs hard stim timing try get charge on time. I rarely see anyone do this since the current flavor is hellion/mines which delays stim.


vs P

(attempt to kill first pylon with 2 zealot) gate expand or core expand then stargate, switch to twilight dt after 2nd void ray

The game will boil down to 4 scenarios: A. chargelot archon vs mass pheonix/void ray. B. favorable defense and evolve to carrier archon/snipe observer and dt vs whatever. I can count on my fingers the times I lost to disruptors. C. Mass archon on more bases vs turtle skytoss. D. Mostly immortal / void rays + a few archons when playing against mass gateway/CIA.

vs Z

possibly nexus first when 1st probe meet hatch then twilight after stargate > 2 void ray + ~6 chargelot/2dt+4 chargelot whilte to kill 3rd while taking own 3rd and building 1st carrier add storm after 3rd finish.

If muta build cannons and sack void rays/chargelot. 1/2 carrier can usually hold initial wave, more archons and try to look for fight almost immediately after 1st/2nd engagement.

If swarmhost, build a few more air units and just go kill....

If hydra add storm. The first zerg attack usually decides the pace of the game. If it is held efficient enough

If roach corruptor add void ray (snipe overseer and warp dt).

If long game vs lurkers deny bases and add even more air units.

Edit: add details on specific responses.

Wow these sound ridiculously annoying to play against haha. Great example of "honorable" vs "ladder" strategies. I've always favored build-of-the-week playstyles since I want to better understand how to watch pro games, I think finding your own slightly off-meta, aggressive build is much better for actually climbing the ladder.
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3598 Posts
October 22 2020 21:41 GMT
#9
On October 22 2020 23:36 yubo56 wrote:
Wow these sound ridiculously annoying to play against haha. Great example of "honorable" vs "ladder" strategies. I've always favored build-of-the-week playstyles since I want to better understand how to watch pro games, I think finding your own slightly off-meta, aggressive build is much better for actually climbing the ladder.

Yeah, having a crisp "off meta" build helps. It has to be versatile and precise, otherwise you'll become a one trick pony. I play an aggressive style of macro zerg.

ZvZ
Standard 3 base opener, bane nest for safety. Ling pressure on the third, ling / bling allin, if I spot a weakness. Otherwise, I transition into a 1-1 roach/rav pressure while taking the 4th, 2-2 follows. Meanwhile I have always 1 group of lings harassing the perimeter of his bases. Lurker / viper core is the goal for late game, I try to go for a high drone count and never stop trading. My best matchup right now. If I wanna switch it up, I go for a 14 hatch with an earlier pool. The goal is to fake the "standard" expand and go for a quick speedling allin.

ZvT
3 base opener, highly reactive playstyle. I'm best at hydra/ling/bane, so that's my go to comp vs. bio. I go mutas on smaller maps. Vs. battlemech I play mass low tech units. Vs. turtle mech, I try to hit a timing with lurker / viper / stuff (mostly ling, bane, rav). I really suck at those drawn out games vs. skyterran or super turtle mech, because I'm not patient enough at picking engagements. Vs. bio I try to trade as efficiently as possible and go for the kill as soon as I see an opening. Watching Reynor really has opened my eyes when it comes to drone count. I'm far off his speed and execution, but the general idea holds up well. Just sauron the shit out the terran.

ZvP
3 base opener into weird stuff if they go macro, e.g. nydus vs. fast 3rd. I'm decent at "standard" games with a roach heavy army, my go to ground unit in the late game is the lurker. My weakness in drawn out games also shows here, because I'm always missing the attack timing vs. skytoss transitions. Sometimes, I still do really wonky mass muta switches, which certainly won't work in higher MMR, but actually do work in mid masters, if you manage to trick your opponent. My go to "Fuck this, I want to laugh" build is an old roach nydus build by Scarlett. It's completely stupid, but works too well to be ignored.

I'm currently 4,7k, so no pro, but also not terribly bad.
first we make expand, then we defense it.
Kiaph
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
112 Posts
October 23 2020 03:45 GMT
#10
The goal is to fake the "standard" expand and go for a quick speed-ling allin.


I am only diamond, but when I watch others in team leagues or in my clan play this is a very standard go-to strategy.

I see it so often I wonder how it still works, but I guess that is because 3 base is so strong in ZvZ as an opener players just ascend towards it and assume their opponents must be doing the same. I could be wrong, but the amount of games I see ended by this "fake" standard push when observing games, even at low GM, makes me wonder why we don't see this more in pro games.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#39
PiGStarcraft467
davetesta17
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft467
WinterStarcraft408
Nina 226
RuFF_SC2 142
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 206
Sharp 76
Icarus 7
LuMiX 1
Dota 2
monkeys_forever694
League of Legends
JimRising 758
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox603
Other Games
summit1g6695
shahzam889
ViBE188
Maynarde180
Trikslyr46
CosmosSc2 19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick43838
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH280
• Hupsaiya 71
• practicex 20
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki25
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1882
• masondota2348
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 5m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12h 5m
WardiTV European League
12h 5m
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
20h 5m
RSL Revival
1d 6h
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
FEL
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.