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112 Posts
I would like to discuss this topic, because we now have the knowledge that changes in the meta will depend almost entirely on discovery, and ofcourse talent.
What are your go to builds ( up to 5 ) for any given match up?
Perhaps we can even get a poll going once we have a big enough pool of builds to choose from.
Builds do not have to be exact ,
Things like "Early oracle aggression into macro play" is pleanty of information. My goal with this thread is to find what people like to play , be it for aggression or defensive purposes.
Exact build orders , or short summary of previous/ideal games is totally welcome. Honestly I am really excited to dive head first into the meta knowing that it isn't going to suddenly change.
Then ofcourse use the discussion to better choose my off race play styles , and maybe even tempt me to try something new as a Terran.
Thank you for posting 
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I only play P.
v T
1 Gate Expand. Twilight follow up with blink. Eventually adding robo - immo colossus.
2 Gate Aggro into expand (max pax or at home). Follow up with twilight, charge, stalker blink, dt blink. All round more a gateway centric style.
vZ
1 Gate Expand into mass gates with a sentry centric gateway push. Take a third at move out or before and tech into immortals etc
1 Gate 1 Stargate Expand.
1 Gate Expo. 3-5 gate and 2 robo follow up for a sentry stalker immortal push.
vP
Hold early cannon rush into disruptor
Hold early 2 adepts into skytoss battles.
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112 Posts
vP
Hold early cannon rush into disruptor
Hold early 2 adepts into skytoss battles
Please tell me that these 2 are not the only varients in the pvp meta right now
Makes me so thankful to be a Terran
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On October 21 2020 10:43 Kiaph wrote:Show nested quote +
vP
Hold early cannon rush into disruptor
Hold early 2 adepts into skytoss battles
Please tell me that these 2 are not the only varients in the pvp meta right now Makes me so thankful to be a Terran
PvP is also chock full of proxies (proxy 3-4 gate, proxy immortal, even proxy VR sometimes). Always an adventure.
PvP:
2 gate stalker stalker sentry sentry expand, blink, fast third + a few extra gates -> blink disruptor
2 gate adept adept stargate phoenix -> robo + fast third -> immortal archon chargelot
I'm a bit greedy aren't I 
PvT:
blink 3 gate robo fast third -> blink charge 7 gate -> double robo colossus -> disruptor -> lose
2 gate robo fast colossus -> third -> blink (charge if 2 base tank push) -> disruptor -> lose
Been having a bit of trouble here I'm afraid
PvZ:
Zest 4 gate gladept -> blink disruptor
4DT archon drop -> blink disruptor
Oracle fast third -> immortal archon chargelot storm
I'm a P main, but I play a fair bit of off race:
TvP:
mine drop into 3 rax with tanks, second factory for mines + tanks -> lots of multiprong -> lose
TvZ:
2-1-1 into bio mine into lose because not enough multitask
hellion BC into battle mech
the brick (hellions, fast third CC double ebay -> 8rax marine tank allin)
TvT:
2 reaper 2 hellion -> marine tank (2 fact) -> 2 starport viking lib
ZvP:
3 base roach -> hydra lurker viper
4 base hydra ling bane -> hydra lurker viper
ZvT:
queen ling, fast lair -> muta/bane/evos, -> ling bane ultra
ZvZ:
31 hatch bane nest, pump a few lings, mass +1 attack roaches -> 4 base hydra lurker viper
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112 Posts
PvP:
2 gate stalker stalker sentry sentry expand, blink, fast third + a few extra gates -> blink disruptor
2 gate adept adept stargate phoenix -> robo + fast third -> immortal archon chargelot
I noticed that these both utilize 2 gateway play, does the build that does 2 adept pressure also use 2 gateways?
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On October 22 2020 12:17 Kiaph wrote:PvP: Show nested quote +2 gate stalker stalker sentry sentry expand, blink, fast third + a few extra gates -> blink disruptor
2 gate adept adept stargate phoenix -> robo + fast third -> immortal archon chargelot
I noticed that these both utilize 2 gateway play, does the build that does 2 adept pressure also use 2 gateways?
Yeah! PvP is super standard in the early game, it's something like 14 pylon, 16 gateway, 17 gas, 18 gas, 19 gate, 21 core, 22 pylon, or so, so you end up with 2 gas + 2 gates, where the second gateway finishes at almost the same time as the core so you start both of your initial units at the same time, and those two initial units are the first major branch point in PvP build orders. 2x stalker gives you a bit more muscle, but 2x adept gives you a bit more map control by threatening to do damage. Stalker/sentry is another common option, giving you a fast hallucination scout, but it's fallen out of favor a bit lately since your unit count is a bit low initially.
The next major decision is when you choose to take the natural expansion, so I tend to favor a faster expansion when building stalkers, since I stay home with them, and I tend to favor tech when going adepts, since I have more chances to do damage. There are a lot of spins on this though, and I don't play enough that I can say my spin is correct.
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Haven't off raced enough to call a build. Mostly P. I play very differently.
Opening:
12 pylon 14 gate double probe scout
vs T
(attempt to delay CC/ fac with 2 zealots) core before nexus then stargate into fleet beacon, 1 or 2 carrier and take the 3rd sometimes cannon in mineral line before 1st carrier based on scouting.
The game is usually decided around or before the 1st carrier timing.
vs cyclone rush I can hold with 1st voidray and 2 battery but will be behind
vs any tech push I just have to kite non-stim marine with 1/2 carriers.
vs hard stim timing try get charge on time. I rarely see anyone do this since the current flavor is hellion/mines which delays stim.
vs P
(attempt to kill first pylon with 2 zealot) gate expand or core expand then stargate, switch to twilight dt after 2nd void ray
The game will boil down to 4 scenarios: A. chargelot archon vs mass pheonix/void ray. B. favorable defense and evolve to carrier archon/snipe observer and dt vs whatever. I can count on my fingers the times I lost to disruptors. C. Mass archon on more bases vs turtle skytoss. D. Mostly immortal / void rays + a few archons when playing against mass gateway/CIA.
vs Z
possibly nexus first when 1st probe meet hatch then twilight after stargate > 2 void ray + ~6 chargelot/2dt+4 chargelot whilte to kill 3rd while taking own 3rd and building 1st carrier add storm after 3rd finish.
If muta build cannons and sack void rays/chargelot. 1/2 carrier can usually hold initial wave, more archons and try to look for fight almost immediately after 1st/2nd engagement.
If swarmhost, build a few more air units and just go kill....
If hydra add storm. The first zerg attack usually decides the pace of the game. If it is held efficient enough
If roach corruptor add void ray (snipe overseer and warp dt).
If long game vs lurkers deny bases and add even more air units.
Edit: add details on specific responses.
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On October 22 2020 19:48 Odowan Paleolithic wrote:
Haven't off raced enough to call a build. Mostly P. I play very differently.
Opening:
12 pylon 14 gate double probe scout
vs T
(attempt to delay CC/ fac with 2 zealots) core before nexus then stargate into fleet beacon, 1 or 2 carrier and take the 3rd sometimes cannon in mineral line before 1st carrier based on scouting.
The game is usually decided around or before the 1st carrier timing.
vs cyclone rush I can hold with 1st voidray and 2 battery but will be behind
vs any tech push I just have to kite non-stim marine with 1/2 carriers.
vs hard stim timing try get charge on time. I rarely see anyone do this since the current flavor is hellion/mines which delays stim.
vs P
(attempt to kill first pylon with 2 zealot) gate expand or core expand then stargate, switch to twilight dt after 2nd void ray
The game will boil down to 4 scenarios: A. chargelot archon vs mass pheonix/void ray. B. favorable defense and evolve to carrier archon/snipe observer and dt vs whatever. I can count on my fingers the times I lost to disruptors. C. Mass archon on more bases vs turtle skytoss. D. Mostly immortal / void rays + a few archons when playing against mass gateway/CIA.
vs Z
possibly nexus first when 1st probe meet hatch then twilight after stargate > 2 void ray + ~6 chargelot/2dt+4 chargelot whilte to kill 3rd while taking own 3rd and building 1st carrier add storm after 3rd finish.
If muta build cannons and sack void rays/chargelot. 1/2 carrier can usually hold initial wave, more archons and try to look for fight almost immediately after 1st/2nd engagement.
If swarmhost, build a few more air units and just go kill....
If hydra add storm. The first zerg attack usually decides the pace of the game. If it is held efficient enough
If roach corruptor add void ray (snipe overseer and warp dt).
If long game vs lurkers deny bases and add even more air units.
Edit: add details on specific responses.
Wow these sound ridiculously annoying to play against haha. Great example of "honorable" vs "ladder" strategies. I've always favored build-of-the-week playstyles since I want to better understand how to watch pro games, I think finding your own slightly off-meta, aggressive build is much better for actually climbing the ladder.
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On October 22 2020 23:36 yubo56 wrote:
Wow these sound ridiculously annoying to play against haha. Great example of "honorable" vs "ladder" strategies. I've always favored build-of-the-week playstyles since I want to better understand how to watch pro games, I think finding your own slightly off-meta, aggressive build is much better for actually climbing the ladder.
Yeah, having a crisp "off meta" build helps. It has to be versatile and precise, otherwise you'll become a one trick pony. I play an aggressive style of macro zerg.
ZvZ
Standard 3 base opener, bane nest for safety. Ling pressure on the third, ling / bling allin, if I spot a weakness. Otherwise, I transition into a 1-1 roach/rav pressure while taking the 4th, 2-2 follows. Meanwhile I have always 1 group of lings harassing the perimeter of his bases. Lurker / viper core is the goal for late game, I try to go for a high drone count and never stop trading. My best matchup right now. If I wanna switch it up, I go for a 14 hatch with an earlier pool. The goal is to fake the "standard" expand and go for a quick speedling allin.
ZvT
3 base opener, highly reactive playstyle. I'm best at hydra/ling/bane, so that's my go to comp vs. bio. I go mutas on smaller maps. Vs. battlemech I play mass low tech units. Vs. turtle mech, I try to hit a timing with lurker / viper / stuff (mostly ling, bane, rav). I really suck at those drawn out games vs. skyterran or super turtle mech, because I'm not patient enough at picking engagements. Vs. bio I try to trade as efficiently as possible and go for the kill as soon as I see an opening. Watching Reynor really has opened my eyes when it comes to drone count. I'm far off his speed and execution, but the general idea holds up well. Just sauron the shit out the terran.
ZvP
3 base opener into weird stuff if they go macro, e.g. nydus vs. fast 3rd. I'm decent at "standard" games with a roach heavy army, my go to ground unit in the late game is the lurker. My weakness in drawn out games also shows here, because I'm always missing the attack timing vs. skytoss transitions. Sometimes, I still do really wonky mass muta switches, which certainly won't work in higher MMR, but actually do work in mid masters, if you manage to trick your opponent. My go to "Fuck this, I want to laugh" build is an old roach nydus build by Scarlett. It's completely stupid, but works too well to be ignored.
I'm currently 4,7k, so no pro, but also not terribly bad.
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112 Posts
The goal is to fake the "standard" expand and go for a quick speed-ling allin.
I am only diamond, but when I watch others in team leagues or in my clan play this is a very standard go-to strategy.
I see it so often I wonder how it still works, but I guess that is because 3 base is so strong in ZvZ as an opener players just ascend towards it and assume their opponents must be doing the same. I could be wrong, but the amount of games I see ended by this "fake" standard push when observing games, even at low GM, makes me wonder why we don't see this more in pro games.
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EPT
