EPTSup?
After diving into the problem of a community member in the short questions short answer thread, I found - as he suspected - it is not a small topic at all... Here I will compile the existing answers. With the hope of perhaps someone finding a better way, than see # CONCLUSION.
Short Summary/Does this interest me?: This is a topic about using Warp-back mechanic with the help of existing hotkeys (main nexuses), the original idea and wish is to use the Main-Nexus-Group Hotkey to quickly warp-back to where you want.
Content: (you can use ctrl+f in your browser)
# ORIGINAL QUESTION
# FIRST ANSWER - explanations and wrong findings of the issue
# SECOND ANSWER - final findings and solution offering
# report et!
# TL;DR
# CONCLUSION - solutions in a nutshell
# THANKS - outtro
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# ORIGINAL QUESTION
On April 03 2020 07:53 aldeon wrote:
Not sure if there's a simple answer to this or not.
How does the game decide how my nexii are ordered in my control group? I would love to reliably press 5, select the third wireframe and know that I'm recalling to my third. Unfortunately, it seems mostly random how these structures get ordered in the control group.
Not sure if there's a simple answer to this or not.
How does the game decide how my nexii are ordered in my control group? I would love to reliably press 5, select the third wireframe and know that I'm recalling to my third. Unfortunately, it seems mostly random how these structures get ordered in the control group.
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# FIRST ANSWER - explanations and wrong findings of the issue
On April 04 2020 16:03 Kertorak wrote:
Edit3 see new answer
Edit1: Aldeon, from some tests, the third added stays in the third position...
Edit2: Aldeon, from my even more tests, it's the same for Zerg, and I can tell you I also played with this mechanic: The creep queens added to the group stay in that order...
Edit2 result: So you must be mistaken... to repeat I just double checked it for both races, zerg and protoss (where you can use this). I used the warpback and the creepqueen+center on the fireframe succesfully 100%, in some practice setups!
aldeon, I wrote an initial post - because I didn't get what you mean at first:
(Besides Before that I wrote even different things, which I deleted now, because that was really misunderstanding the problem)
I'd love to know too, after all - the way how I do it is to select it manually to recall there. From what I know the same units of the exact same type have no order-preference of when you add it... The only order there is is the type.
That being said, once you added to a control group it will stay in that order..... I use that for my queen spread creep in the lategame, once I had to put them in a certain group where they are not alone anymore (no double tab), because I want that hotkey for heavy air or other air.
Recommendation a) remember that order for each game...
So my current recommendation (b) to you would be - yes, unfortunately I know blizzard doesn't improve their game anymore, and we are still stuck to 10 control groups - to bind that nexus on a dedicated hotkey - for instance I use the extra hotkeys: T, G, B.
I might edit something, but at least about jumping to a unit: It's the closest one, or the more clustered part of the group.
Not sure if these information is useful to you, good luck!
Edit3 see new answer
Edit1: Aldeon, from some tests, the third added stays in the third position...
Edit2: Aldeon, from my even more tests, it's the same for Zerg, and I can tell you I also played with this mechanic: The creep queens added to the group stay in that order...
Edit2 result: So you must be mistaken... to repeat I just double checked it for both races, zerg and protoss (where you can use this). I used the warpback and the creepqueen+center on the fireframe succesfully 100%, in some practice setups!
aldeon, I wrote an initial post - because I didn't get what you mean at first:
(Besides Before that I wrote even different things, which I deleted now, because that was really misunderstanding the problem)
I'd love to know too, after all - the way how I do it is to select it manually to recall there. From what I know the same units of the exact same type have no order-preference of when you add it... The only order there is is the type.
That being said, once you added to a control group it will stay in that order..... I use that for my queen spread creep in the lategame, once I had to put them in a certain group where they are not alone anymore (no double tab), because I want that hotkey for heavy air or other air.
Recommendation a) remember that order for each game...
So my current recommendation (b) to you would be - yes, unfortunately I know blizzard doesn't improve their game anymore, and we are still stuck to 10 control groups - to bind that nexus on a dedicated hotkey - for instance I use the extra hotkeys: T, G, B.
I might edit something, but at least about jumping to a unit: It's the closest one, or the more clustered part of the group.
Not sure if these information is useful to you, good luck!
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# SECOND ANSWER - final findings and solution offering
On April 04 2020 18:47 Kertorak wrote:
Edit3:
There is more to this, so I couldn't simply let you with my first answer... This seems to be a weird thing for main bases that I figured out for you now. It is indeed not that intuitive.
- First of all I'd like to apologize, for queens, where I use it, it's the same. For given the nexuses I tested it's too, and my statements weren't really wrong, they were just not comprehensive:
However for certain maps and positions it seems to be different. Anyways please try yourself to recreate your groups for the same Nexuses and you will ALLWAYS get the same order for the same nexuses.
Here is how it goes: You could also test yourself:
Every position seems to have a priority indicator...
For instance if you just hotkey your main and natural, it will always be first and second order.
If you add the "third" it can be at a different priority depending on the map. Same goes for more bases.
So for instance you could have Priority 2,3, and 5 in your nexuses at first. Once you add the "fourth" with priority 4, it will now be at position 3, and your "third" is at 4... The reason I didn't start at 1 is because some "late" bases seem to be at 1 suddenly - having a higher priority.
I will make an example for a non 1v1 map, so you are motivated to figure the others our yourself:
Please share your findings, in that new thread! Edit: Please keep the size of pictures small, keep it to the relevant (I have limited bandwith :D)
Edit:![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/a/ANlfrTd)
Link:
Description: As you can figure, the order of ALL bases is the same. However if you have only a few of the selected bases, the order might seem to swap - or rather said, another bases will be put inbetween (or even infront). For instance, the green numbers indicate the apparent intuitive order of bases, however stuff gets complicated once you get more bases, see black (4 bases) and red (8 bases).
This should clarify things, in other words, you have to figure out the overall-order for each of the current ladder maps.
p.s. What I can say is that you should create a new thread - because this really seems not a simple answer.
Perhaps write to a moderator to put our comments in a new thread all together...
PSPSPS
EDIT4: heyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I feel like on Drugs &:-/ Blizzard seems to having done an epic job here... everytime you reload the map the order is different - at least from my tests :D :D :D good news, for that very same SESSION IT IS STATIC!!!!!! so just test (when you have 4 bases or 3, which position it is... before doing the attack what ever).
I wonder this wasn't adressed to blizzard at all - given the new warp back mechanic, at least there seems to be nothing done about it - I wrote a feedback/ticket to blizzard, fyi.
AND STILL PLEASE READ THE STUFF I WROTE; I put quite some work into figuring this shit... :D :O
Edit3:
There is more to this, so I couldn't simply let you with my first answer... This seems to be a weird thing for main bases that I figured out for you now. It is indeed not that intuitive.
- First of all I'd like to apologize, for queens, where I use it, it's the same. For given the nexuses I tested it's too, and my statements weren't really wrong, they were just not comprehensive:
However for certain maps and positions it seems to be different. Anyways please try yourself to recreate your groups for the same Nexuses and you will ALLWAYS get the same order for the same nexuses.
Here is how it goes: You could also test yourself:
Every position seems to have a priority indicator...
For instance if you just hotkey your main and natural, it will always be first and second order.
If you add the "third" it can be at a different priority depending on the map. Same goes for more bases.
So for instance you could have Priority 2,3, and 5 in your nexuses at first. Once you add the "fourth" with priority 4, it will now be at position 3, and your "third" is at 4... The reason I didn't start at 1 is because some "late" bases seem to be at 1 suddenly - having a higher priority.
I will make an example for a non 1v1 map, so you are motivated to figure the others our yourself:
Please share your findings, in that new thread! Edit: Please keep the size of pictures small, keep it to the relevant (I have limited bandwith :D)
Edit:
Link:
Description: As you can figure, the order of ALL bases is the same. However if you have only a few of the selected bases, the order might seem to swap - or rather said, another bases will be put inbetween (or even infront). For instance, the green numbers indicate the apparent intuitive order of bases, however stuff gets complicated once you get more bases, see black (4 bases) and red (8 bases).
This should clarify things, in other words, you have to figure out the overall-order for each of the current ladder maps.
p.s. What I can say is that you should create a new thread - because this really seems not a simple answer.
Perhaps write to a moderator to put our comments in a new thread all together...
PSPSPS
EDIT4: heyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I feel like on Drugs &:-/ Blizzard seems to having done an epic job here... everytime you reload the map the order is different - at least from my tests :D :D :D good news, for that very same SESSION IT IS STATIC!!!!!! so just test (when you have 4 bases or 3, which position it is... before doing the attack what ever).
I wonder this wasn't adressed to blizzard at all - given the new warp back mechanic, at least there seems to be nothing done about it - I wrote a feedback/ticket to blizzard, fyi.
AND STILL PLEASE READ THE STUFF I WROTE; I put quite some work into figuring this shit... :D :O
On April 05 2020 04:02 aldeon wrote:
Holy moly Kertorak, you certainly did put a lot of work in to this. Apparently it certainly is not a simple answer, and I'm wondering why nobody else seems as concerned about it as us xD
Either way, thank you for all the testing you have done and for submitting that ticket. I suppose it is just another thing I'll have to add to my mid game routine for now.
Much appreciated <3
Holy moly Kertorak, you certainly did put a lot of work in to this. Apparently it certainly is not a simple answer, and I'm wondering why nobody else seems as concerned about it as us xD
Either way, thank you for all the testing you have done and for submitting that ticket. I suppose it is just another thing I'll have to add to my mid game routine for now.
Much appreciated <3
I am wondering, too. Haha. Probably this mechanic is not considered to be used, as often.
# report et!
Link to the Bug Report(ed), please support i(e)t: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/sc2/t/bugfeedback-main-base-priority-order/9844
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# TL;DR
Blizzard made a complete mess (details above). I tried many ways, and there seems to be no reliable way to do what was asked. However there are ways to warp back reliable of course...
# CONCLUSION - solutions in a nutshell
In order to achieve the wanted goal my final recommendations are, there are several ways, in order of getting more efficient with each recommendation: (from 0 to d)
0) Just use your main Nexuses-Group-Hotkey and hope for the best. Duh.
a) manually select the Nexus, either via Minimap or CameraKey, then warp back via Minimap again... If you are fast, this can be viable.
b) Using the existing Order
before doing the attack test which of your nexuses in the Group is the one you want to warp to:
- To do that, you have to test the current order for each game (To repeat: The order stays the same for the whole game)
- So you have to click on each Nexus in your group, and center it (or similar) to see where it is...
- Remember which one your desired Nexus is in your current setup (if you add more Nexuses you have to retest this, if you want to be sure...)
- Then In combat, or when being chased (what ever) - you can quickly click on that Wire-Frame in your Group-Window
- Hit the Warp-Back button (hotkey)
This is always viable, but it requires a preparation, if you are used to do this, it is not a problem.
c) Dedicated Hotkey
c1)This is what I have done now - Choose the Nexus before the fight and put it to a dedicated hotkey (...). For this I made some room in my group hotkeys , the warp back Nexus got a dedicated to a certain group hotkey. The only problem here is the strong limitation of Sc2 to only 10 groups...
You can then easily select the wire-frame of the one Nexus to warp back, easy, fast and reliable.
The advantage to c2) of having a dedicated hotkey is that you can easily override it with another Nexus.
c2) Alternatively - and similarly, you can put it to any other Misc-Building Hotkey which doesn't use waypoints - depending on your personal setup - for instance forges (I don't do this, so I decided for c1) - etc.
You can then easily select the wire-frame of the one Nexus to warp back, fast and reliable.
Advantage to c1): You have more room for group-hotkeys
Disadvantage to c1): 1) It takes one extra-click and mouse movement to warpback (actually two movements, down, and up again).2) It takes some more steps to change the Nexus.
d) ...
- I had another brilliant idea which I forgot -
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# THANKS - outtro
I hope Rule #1 is fulfilled, to also provide some evidence, I tested this all. Of course this is all just the current state of knowledge, game and opinion.
Lotv Patch Patch 4.11.4 BU
Thanks for reading, and of course we are open for better/more efficient solutions. Or further explanations of the phenomenon. Feel free to post anything.
