On January 14 2016 08:54 Jakamakala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 07:54 TheOrz wrote:
I would like a comprehensive discussion on upgrade timings for a Terran going Bio. I understand that these things are situational but I would like to tease out the details of those situations and also find the general rules of thumb.
[TvX]
When should +1 attack start?
When should you hold off on starting +1 atttack?
Is it ever really too early to start +1 attack?
Does it ever make sense to start +1 armor before +1 attack?
When does it make more sense to wait until you can build 2 ebays and start +1/+1 simultaneously?
When should Stim start?
When should Combat Shields start?
Does it ever make sense to start Combat Shields before Stim?
Does it make sense to go for Medivacs before upgrades?
[TvT]
How well do 1/1 Marines trade with 0/0 Marines?
[TvZ]
How well do 1/1 Mauraders trade with 0/0 Roaches?
[TvP]
How well do 1/1 Mauraders trade with 0/0 Stalkers?
In a macro game 1/1 is generally started around 5:00 minutes. Off an aggressive opener like I do it sometimes starts at 5:30.
You hold off on +1 attack only if your opponent is doing something like a 1 base all in. Even on 2 base +1 is a small and worthy investment in long term.
It's too early if you have no units for the upgrade to benefit (e.g. don't open ebay first and get +1 then have a +1 marine while 2 reapers 2 hellions and a banshee kill you).
+1 attack is always better for T in all match ups.
In TvP armor is not as important. In TvT you generally start with 1 ebay and get +1 attack then armor and get the 2nd ebay/armory and go for both at the same time in most aggressive macro games (which is normal in TvT). TvZ you almost always get both at the same time, generally you drop 2 ebays as the nat is getting mineral saturated and you add on gas 3 and 4.
Stim starts in TvT after you switch your reactor rax onto the starports tech lab (after opening banshee or raven, which is most games). TvP you get stim on your 2nd rax for the most part because the first one is and stays reactored, so generally after you throw down 2 more raxes after nat is established (assuming 1/1/1 opener). In TvZ you start stim after you switch the barracks and factory to reactor hellions, unless you are using the barracks to get a tech lab for banshees, in which case stim starts directly after that.
CS is always right after Stim.
CS before stim used to be a thing in TvP for a faster timing. It's no longer a thing.
If you're talking about reactored constant medivacs, then generally upgrades go before double medivac. There are certain pressure openers that involve 1 or 2 medivacs before upgrades but not constant reactored production, just initial few to try to harass/establish map control.
1/1 marines wreck 0/0 marines shouldn't even be a question. Deals 7 damage and takes 5 back.
Marauders still counter roaches pretty hard, even in even upgrade situations.
Same goes for stalkers. Stalkers are bad against bio.
EPT
