EPT[G] Protoss: Stupid Shit That Works On Ladder
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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daralharb
United States59 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 25 2014 23:00 daralharb wrote: Awesome, thank you for more fun protoss builds. Too bad the other races don't have fun builds like this. Insert Austin Powers Meme: "Fun" | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
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User15937
68 Posts
V2 | ||
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joshie0808
Canada1024 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24203 Posts
 I sometimes feel like there are two races inside Protoss. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Aeromi
France14460 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33418 Posts
On December 26 2014 05:39 Teoita wrote: hehehehehe do you feel like a serial killer who spawned his first copycat killer? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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jubil
United States2602 Posts
 As terran, the only bullshit I've been resorting to on ladder lately is Maka-rax reaper rush in TvT. It's diverting for a while, but the games are quite short and simple compared to this exquisitely-crafted cheddar. | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
On December 26 2014 05:48 jubil wrote: Wish I played toss, I'd definitely try a few of these. Hell, I might just go into unranked and try them anyway As terran, the only bullshit I've been resorting to on ladder lately is Maka-rax reaper rush in TvT. It's diverting for a while, but the games are quite short and simple compared to this exquisitely-crafted cheddar. TvP, I recommend trying out some stim timing builds. Just amoving a protoss natural just before colossus is out feels great! For TvZ, there's plenty of bullshit builds! My favourite is to open hellion-banshee on 2 bases, add reactor on barracks and win with a slightly delayed marine-hellbat-banshee SCV pull. TvT, any gas first opener can lead into what feels like bullshit games :D | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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zerge
Germany162 Posts
On December 26 2014 05:48 jubil wrote: Wish I played toss, I'd definitely try a few of these. Hell, I might just go into unranked and try them anyway As terran, the only bullshit I've been resorting to on ladder lately is Maka-rax reaper rush in TvT. It's diverting for a while, but the games are quite short and simple compared to this exquisitely-crafted cheddar. Just switch race, this stuff isn't hard to do. I recently switched to protoss as well took me only 4 days to get back to diamond where i was stuck with zerg. I honestly hope people will abuse protoss even more on ladder untill you can see it in the statistics. If you just want to have a high rank play protoss, do bullshit it's very simple. This will increase our chances of having a game that is balanced on all levels of play in LotV and not just the pro level. Who wants to watch a game that is fucking disgusting to play even when you're a dedicated hobbiest? Please help saving the ladder! + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8pxYHIb.jpg) | ||
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feardragon
United States973 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24582 Posts
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
Time to break out ALL the proxy mine drop builds. Thank you based Maru for your example. | ||
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RadDankDogg
United States4 Posts
On December 26 2014 06:17 Alchemik wrote: I want one for Zerg now Swarm hosts. | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
I want one that doesn't take skill | ||
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daralharb
United States59 Posts
Swarm hosts. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On December 26 2014 06:46 Teoita wrote: Sated isn't staff, this is out of the kindness of his heart And your stuff isn't? Damn, I believed in a lie. On topic: congratz Sated, very well put up. At first I thought "Heh, the second Great Protoss Bullshit book? Let's not go overboard", but then I realized it quite deserves this name! Now I must hate you as I might encounter these builds as T on the ladder. Time to train the counters P.S.: By the way, this is totally spotlight materials here I'd say. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 26 2014 06:17 Alchemik wrote: I want one for Zerg now find Starbuck's VODs | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
And your stuff isn't? Damn, I believed in a lie. My ESPORTS passhun is a mix of just loving how hilarious Protoss is, and sheer hatred for Zerg | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
1 base 7rr with burrow is a bullshit I've already learned, I want more :D sounds like you might not be right | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 26 2014 08:54 Alchemik wrote: 1 base 7rr with burrow is a bullshit I've already learned, I want more :D sounds like you might not be right what about Julyzerg-style drone drill to knock out Genius from WCS qualifiers? or 2 base ultra vs Terran or 1hatch muta vs 2rax bunker contain | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
What is this shit? | ||
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Centerfold
Canada45 Posts
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 26 2014 09:37 Ej_ wrote: what about Julyzerg-style drone drill to knock out Genius from WCS qualifiers? or 2 base ultra vs Terran or 1hatch muta vs 2rax bunker contain 1 hatch muta doesn't seem very good tbh, Scarlett did that once (vs MaSa I believe?) and it didn't end well if we're talking about dumb responses to a 2 rax, I much prefer 1 base (with a macro hatch) mass 1/1 ling drops | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Centerfold
Canada45 Posts
On December 26 2014 09:49 Centerfold wrote: but like will this like work on like grandmaster and stuffs Hey man, I beat SeleCT with one of these builds! [/QUOTE]who? haha no I'm kidding. I'll be sure to emulate these, thanks | ||
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Centerfold
Canada45 Posts
[QUOTE]On December 26 2014 09:49 Centerfold wrote: but like will this like work on like grandmaster and stuffs[QUOTE] Hey man, I beat SeleCT with one of these builds! [/QUOTE]who? haha no I'm kidding. I'll be sure to emulate these, thanks [/QUOTE] | ||
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Centerfold
Canada45 Posts
haha no I'm kidding. I'll be sure to emulate these, thanks | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
"Big book of 10pool bullshit"... ... said no one ever T_T | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Centerfold
Canada45 Posts
On December 26 2014 10:23 xtorn wrote: I might switch to protoss, just for the title of these threads. "Big book of 10pool bullshit"... ... said no one ever T_T http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/469490-zvp-an-aggressive-playstyle-guide | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44441 Posts
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
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Kommatiazo
United States579 Posts
Great stuff Sated. I especially love the cutting through the BS you do about people mindset and view of the ladder. I'll try to be less mad next time I have one of these builds used on me. :D | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
works better on maps where you know the spawn locations though, can scout earlier or double scout in some cases on other maps. how about: PvT 10 gate --> crono out 2 stalkers --> proxy stargate with 3rd pylon --> build 2 more gates --> 3 gate voidray allin doesnt work vs 1 base tech builds though, have to build robo twilight in base then and go for 4 gate blink PvP Cannonrush still works on some maps - i still win a decent amount of games even if they scout the pylon, cuz they dont pull enough probes and i can build the first cannon in so that only 2 probes can attack it. cannon 2 and 3 in reach of their nexus, build probes at home in the meanwhile and get a stalker out vs their mothercore immediatly, while having a cannon at ur ramp (first pylon has to be close enough to the ramp to make a cannon there). you have to be smart to pull this off though, some ppl just build a new nexus, some build voidray, some get over to you with all probes and units they have immediatly. PvZ - 12 forge at your natural, go over with the probe who build the forge and immediatly pylon --> scout mainbase --> 1 cannon in the middle of their natural. if he doenst pull more than 3 drones, build 2 more cannons, if he pull enough probes, just cancel, build probes at all times, build nexus block 3rd with ur probe, you shouldnt be behind. also make sure to scout around for hidden bases / proxy hatches / scout gas timing if you can - ive lost games to nydus 1 base before. again, you have be smart and anticipate the reaction of your opponent more than usually. | ||
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Motlu
Australia884 Posts
#RaceEquality | ||
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Roadog
Canada1670 Posts
The first book of bullshit was already more than I could handle, my body was not ready for another one! Great job. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
It seems something like this was mentioned in the old PvZ guide as well. Guess who wrote about that >.> | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 26 2014 16:03 Motlu wrote: Someone get Catz to write some Zerg bullshit. Or just study Catz/soO/Solar VODS I guess. #RaceEquality only one I can remember is hatch block in the wall on Catallena vs Nexus first also roach/ling all-in in ZvT that kills everytime unless Terran makes a tank (and it hits at like 8:00) | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24582 Posts
On December 26 2014 20:34 Alchemik wrote: only one I can remember is hatch block in the wall on Catallena vs Nexus first also roach/ling all-in in ZvT that kills everytime unless Terran makes a tank (and it hits at like 8:00) There are like a thousand variants of hatch blocks and shit. Watch soO, Life or Scarlett the last six months | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 26 2014 21:09 Heartland wrote: There are like a thousand variants of hatch blocks and shit. Watch soO, Life or Scarlett the last six months yeah but most of them come out even or behind at the end (outside of Life's all-in proxy hatch and Scarlett's in-base roach burrow) but 2 base nydus swarm host in ZvP is a fairly good bullshit, do that | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24582 Posts
On December 26 2014 21:11 Alchemik wrote: yeah but most of them come out even or behind at the end (outside of Life's all-in proxy hatch and Scarlett's in-base roach burrow) but 2 base nydus swarm host in ZvP is a fairly good bullshit, do that soO turned his series vs Zest around through those builds, so I disagree | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 26 2014 21:53 Teoita wrote: 2base baneling drops wasn't it 1 base? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On December 26 2014 20:34 Alchemik wrote: only one I can remember is hatch block in the wall on Catallena vs Nexus first also roach/ling all-in in ZvT that kills everytime unless Terran makes a tank (and it hits at like 8:00) There was also that sick first ovie snipe with the spore crawler in ZvZ, though not a build per se and more like a trick, but damn hilarious (maybe a build to pull if you manage to kill it?) | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
On December 26 2014 23:01 Ragnarork wrote: There was also that sick first ovie snipe with the spore crawler in ZvZ, though not a build per se and more like a trick, but damn hilarious (maybe a build to pull if you manage to kill it?) Solar tried a 10 pool spore, almost worked | ||
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PSIDefenseUp
United States251 Posts
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straycat
230 Posts
me neither | ||
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NDie
France21 Posts
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bri9and
United States246 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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DuckloadBlackra
225 Posts
They don't even need to know it's coming because the vast majority of them do something that hard counters it anyway. Also, when do terrans ever not go gas first? It's very rare | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24582 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24582 Posts
On December 31 2014 21:16 SatedSC2 wrote: Not really. If it were that easy to beat Widow Mine openings then I doubt anyone would ever use them. I meant specifically the hellion, mine, marine medivac drop. You're right in general of course. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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Icekin
88 Posts
They just get scouted 100% and when terrans see double gas they think about proxy oracle or dt -> they build asap ebay with turrets. In the #prayng to inca build there is even a delayed nexus, it's like telling terrans you are going for tech harass. Is'nt just a waste of time tryng dt's if you know you get scouted and countered? | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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robopork
United States511 Posts
On December 27 2014 10:36 bri9and wrote: What I want for Christmas is for Protoss to be removed from the game! Funny, I feel the same way about Terran! But then I just think, "Who's tears would I drink?" and I build more dt's and pray his multitasking will stink. | ||
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DuckloadBlackra
225 Posts
On December 31 2014 06:56 SatedSC2 wrote: Well, I do point out in the guide that it doesn't work well if the Terran goes for Widow Mines. However, my ladder experience must be different to yours because I wouldn't say that most Terrans open with Widow Mine pressure. In any case, I used the build earlier today to beat a GM NA Terran so it definitely works. That's why I said it seems useless, almost every terran opens widow mine. I just gave the build another try for 6 games today and 5 out of 6 games the terran went for widow mine. Lost every one of those. | ||
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DnCL
86 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10675 Posts
EDIT : What league are you Sated and what league are these builds meant for? | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10675 Posts
On January 02 2015 07:09 SatedSC2 wrote: I take it you didn't bother to actually read the guide given that you're asking something like that ^_^ I read them all, and all it looks like is a compilation of other guides into one guide, and they are all just guides on how to do all ins. Now may I ask what league are you and are these guides meant for a certain level of players? | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10675 Posts
I'd like to play you so we can see how these work in action, you game? - -; | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
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TedBurtle
Belarus201 Posts
1)good strat's that i picked for my arsenal, 3-phase all in vs zerg, it's really hurt economic of zerg's that not in masters at least, and they just cant prepare with vipers for final push.. And by the way, if they want to counter attack, i still got many forces to kill theyr push. Great strategy, that i played when i was in silver league (old version, that finishes on immortal push) and it helped me get to gold and learn to multitask,micro vs zerg...This one, carried me to the high diamond now. 2)Agressive macro opening in PvP, is interesting, it worked, it can be mastered to perfection, and be used, but i still prefer standart BO. 3)Hyper4Gate. Works well, but it's stick to the timings of everything, little mistake ruin this push potential, misstiming of attack and else is hurts too much. Not using it now, but it helped me to learn (when i was silver) importance of seconds in sc2..of every second. 4)PvT: 1 Gate FE Into 5 Gate All-In... After scouting that you wont face fast/or too many mines, can work (as you said in guide). i prefer to get a plan, and stick to it without too much swings, and this strategy is really about swings, gas before rax? ~75% our strategy will fail, so i won't do it, but maybe add this if i play weird game, by defeating proxy rax, and terran escapes and trying to continue 5)PvZ 15Nexus GATE GATE GATE...yeah maybe on dreampool. not now  6)PvP proxy oracle into voidray allin... Preety nice transition. works. Love it..still playing standart (i prefer blink) 7)PvT- Dark Templars ... still, this is your old BO, that i played in silver (it was on summer)..helped me to get to gold..then i played standart robo macro vs T...Now i enjoying this refined BO again with my multitasking skills increased. So overall..Thanks for builds!! Nice to see people like you! | ||
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Dredrick
United States32 Posts
I'm particularly fond of your PvZ Double Robo attack. I have another PvZ opening that's very aggressive, and I've been trying to find a good follow-up to it for a while. Going to put the two builds together and see how they mash up. I'll come back with some replays in a few days if I like how it goes. On January 02 2015 09:38 GGzerG wrote: I read them all, and all it looks like is a compilation of other guides into one guide, and they are all just guides on how to do all ins. Now may I ask what league are you and are these guides meant for a certain level of players? Well apparently you failed to read the Introduction, or watch a single replay because doing either of those would have answered your question without you trying to flex your muscles at people. Not very impressive. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
Do you have anything similar to the 4-2-2 against terran? I like the multi stage aggression and the benchmarks it has that helps me macro better overall. win ratio image + Show Spoiler + | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
thanks for getting my PvZ over 30%, the last BO looks so fucking powerful, I wouldn't know how to handle it as Zerg 0_0.... Got 3 questions: a. What is your mutalisk defense of choice? Double SG? Blink? Getting a third and macroing out? b. Zerg ideally wants a Spire or Vipers. Is scouting when the immortals move out a good timing? You should see the 2nd robo, the bay or the low Gate count. How hard is it to defend a Roach Ling basetrade with burrow and hidden Drones? because that, to me, seems like the strongest/most reliable "OH SHIT I wasnt prepared" response. c. Could you provide timing benchmarks to hit in practice? Any pro gamers being this cheesy :p? This sounds like the things sOs would do Anyways, fuck you and thank you for this guide Mixed feelings much #justrandomplayerthings | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On January 20 2015 18:30 SatedSC2 wrote: I'm glad it's working for you! Unfortunately, I don't have anything like the 4-2-2 that can be used against Terran. My idea behind my 4-2-2 is based on NonY's triple-recall strategy, without that foundation I wouldn't have been able to come up with this build, and I've never seen anyone using a Recall-heavy pressure strategy vs. Terran... 2 base colossus all ins after Blink are really popular. Theres even a 3 base all in (see Dear v MKC from the Samsung v MVP proleague match yesterday) | ||
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MidnightZL
Sweden203 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10675 Posts
On January 20 2015 22:35 MidnightZL wrote: If it works, it's not stupid, it is only smart. That's what this game is all about, being smarter than your opponent. Enough said. Yea that is a really intelligent way to look at balancing a game as well. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7711 Posts
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Xenomorph
United States137 Posts
I agree that the 4-2-2 is good for practising macro because it gives you three well-defined targets to hit and forces you to micro whilst trying to hit them. It will quickly become apparent to lower-level players where their weaknesses lie whilst playing that build, and it's actually the build I use to warm-up against AI whenever I play! I agree completely. I'm starting to use this in my PvZ games and I'm finding that its works very well in allowing harass with a strong macro build behind it. The prism use also has piqued my interests, and it gave me the realization to return to the unit and use it more often. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
The end result is pushing with 4 zealots and 2 sentrys while leaving 1 back to fill the wall. Zealots have higher DPS than sentry so its easier to kill zerglings and third bases. 2 Sentries is also enough to trap a queen or 2. I also warp in sentrys while the agression is going on because i tend to float some gas while getting up a robo with cost only 100 gas. One difficulty I've encountered is against zergs who defend with mass zergling. If I see no roaches i am not comfortable throwing down the second robo because it might be a mutalisk transition. I try to remedy this buy just going for robo bay and pushing again with more zealots and if still no roaches I'll scout with a hallucination and put down stargates if muta. But, I feel behind in my push because the robos are delayed if he ends up making roaches after all. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
On February 05 2015 09:40 vhapter wrote: Hey man, I was wondering a couple of things about this Tinman build. Don't you think it's possible to devise a more reliable and economical version of it? I don't know, something along the lines of a 3 stalker rush with a msc, but chronoing wg instead of stalkers 2 and 3? I actually tried to do something like this. However, I found it IMPOSSIBLE to get the gas to rush for 3 stalkers and MSC at the same time to get to your opponent in a timely fashion. Essentially, if you don't go for warp gate you are giving defenders advantage to your opponent. The premise of the build i was trying to do was to rush out 2 stalkers and move out with the 2 stalkers and then warp in 2 more to have 4 total, But I wasn't able to do it. I did have a version of the tinman where I went for 2 gate warp gate, and a quicker expand, but I found that to be very weak to tech base all in plays. It works wonders against passive robo openings though. [Going against blink was pretty much auto lose if the opponent knew how to micro in the slightest]. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On February 05 2015 12:46 AkashSky wrote: I don't think wg done at 5:45 + 3 stalker and a msc is bad (3 gate timing with robo behind it). Your stalkers come out at about 5:10 if you don't chrono them. Actually, I think Duckdeok did this build all the time, but I think his wg finished at 6:00. But if you don't chrono your msc or stalkers, wg finished earlier than that. No gas problems whatsoever here. You're probably not managing your gas properly.I actually tried to do something like this. However, I found it IMPOSSIBLE to get the gas to rush for 3 stalkers and MSC at the same time to get to your opponent in a timely fashion. Essentially, if you don't go for warp gate you are giving defenders advantage to your opponent. The premise of the build i was trying to do was to rush out 2 stalkers and move out with the 2 stalkers and then warp in 2 more to have 4 total, But I wasn't able to do it. I did have a version of the tinman where I went for 2 gate warp gate, and a quicker expand, but I found that to be very weak to tech base all in plays. It works wonders against passive robo openings though. [Going against blink was pretty much auto lose if the opponent knew how to micro in the slightest]. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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iMrising
United States1099 Posts
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SatedSC2
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WOLFGEIST
4 Posts
Practicing the 4-2-2 lately. Love the concept of the build (early pressure to dictate the pace, feints, timings). I love builds like this, that are so perfectly crafted where each step has a specific purpose. I was curious, Sated, do you have any updates on the build, more replays, etc? I've watched all the ones you posted multiple times. | ||
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
On April 26 2015 05:49 WOLFGEIST wrote: Bump. Practicing the 4-2-2 lately. Love the concept of the build (early pressure to dictate the pace, feints, timings). I love builds like this, that are so perfectly crafted where each step has a specific purpose. I was curious, Sated, do you have any updates on the build, more replays, etc? I've watched all the ones you posted multiple times. Well, im not sated, but I've been doing the 4-2-2 for quite some time now on ladder. I have found that a more efficient version of it, (at least on 2 player maps) is to open like this. 9pylon (near main nexus) 13 gateway, positioned in some manner to create a 1 hex slit for your zealot in case of early pool. 15 pylon at natural to make a wall=> scout with this probe. If you see a hatchery first, or no zerglings being made, go straight into natural nexus before making a zealot. Then, take double gas and then go cyber core then another pylon before starting the zealot. After that, you essentially converge into the 4-2-2 with a later warp gate timing, but significantly larger economy which allows for a stronger gateway attack along with a faster immortal and collosus timing. On 4 player maps i just do the regular 4-2-2. | ||
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WOLFGEIST
4 Posts
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Nuloh1
1 Post
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![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/hsMtqnh)
