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I agree that the 4-2-2 is good for practising macro because it gives you three well-defined targets to hit and forces you to micro whilst trying to hit them. It will quickly become apparent to lower-level players where their weaknesses lie whilst playing that build, and it's actually the build I use to warm-up against AI whenever I play!
I agree completely. I'm starting to use this in my PvZ games and I'm finding that its works very well in allowing harass with a strong macro build behind it. The prism use also has piqued my interests, and it gave me the realization to return to the unit and use it more often.
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Hey Sated, what is your opinion on delaying the second gas in the 4-2-2 in favor of getting gateways 2 and 3 up faster? I find that if i do it this way, I am able to squeeze out an extra zealot or 2 from the gateway before warp gate finishes.
The end result is pushing with 4 zealots and 2 sentrys while leaving 1 back to fill the wall. Zealots have higher DPS than sentry so its easier to kill zerglings and third bases. 2 Sentries is also enough to trap a queen or 2. I also warp in sentrys while the agression is going on because i tend to float some gas while getting up a robo with cost only 100 gas.
One difficulty I've encountered is against zergs who defend with mass zergling. If I see no roaches i am not comfortable throwing down the second robo because it might be a mutalisk transition. I try to remedy this buy just going for robo bay and pushing again with more zealots and if still no roaches I'll scout with a hallucination and put down stargates if muta. But, I feel behind in my push because the robos are delayed if he ends up making roaches after all.
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Hey man, I was wondering a couple of things about this Tinman build. Don't you think it's possible to devise a more reliable and economical version of it? I don't know, something along the lines of a 3 stalker rush with a msc, but chronoing wg instead of stalkers 2 and 3?
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On February 05 2015 09:40 vhapter wrote:
Hey man, I was wondering a couple of things about this Tinman build. Don't you think it's possible to devise a more reliable and economical version of it? I don't know, something along the lines of a 3 stalker rush with a msc, but chronoing wg instead of stalkers 2 and 3?
I actually tried to do something like this. However, I found it IMPOSSIBLE to get the gas to rush for 3 stalkers and MSC at the same time to get to your opponent in a timely fashion. Essentially, if you don't go for warp gate you are giving defenders advantage to your opponent.
The premise of the build i was trying to do was to rush out 2 stalkers and move out with the 2 stalkers and then warp in 2 more to have 4 total, But I wasn't able to do it.
I did have a version of the tinman where I went for 2 gate warp gate, and a quicker expand, but I found that to be very weak to tech base all in plays. It works wonders against passive robo openings though. [Going against blink was pretty much auto lose if the opponent knew how to micro in the slightest].
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On February 05 2015 12:46 AkashSky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2015 09:40 vhapter wrote:
Hey man, I was wondering a couple of things about this Tinman build. Don't you think it's possible to devise a more reliable and economical version of it? I don't know, something along the lines of a 3 stalker rush with a msc, but chronoing wg instead of stalkers 2 and 3? I actually tried to do something like this. However, I found it IMPOSSIBLE to get the gas to rush for 3 stalkers and MSC at the same time to get to your opponent in a timely fashion. Essentially, if you don't go for warp gate you are giving defenders advantage to your opponent. The premise of the build i was trying to do was to rush out 2 stalkers and move out with the 2 stalkers and then warp in 2 more to have 4 total, But I wasn't able to do it. I did have a version of the tinman where I went for 2 gate warp gate, and a quicker expand, but I found that to be very weak to tech base all in plays. It works wonders against passive robo openings though. [Going against blink was pretty much auto lose if the opponent knew how to micro in the slightest]. I don't think wg done at 5:45 + 3 stalker and a msc is bad (3 gate timing with robo behind it). Your stalkers come out at about 5:10 if you don't chrono them. Actually, I think Duckdeok did this build all the time, but I think his wg finished at 6:00. But if you don't chrono your msc or stalkers, wg finished earlier than that. No gas problems whatsoever here. You're probably not managing your gas properly.
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United States1099 Posts
Is the gate-gate-gate opening still viable in the current map pool? Specifically Overgrowth, Vaani Research Station, and (especially) Secret Springs since all of their walloffs are small, and their rush distances are relatively short. (not vaani though)
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United States1099 Posts
You also gave responses upon scouting spire, but how would you know that the zerg is making mutas, and not corruptors? Do you estimate how much gas they have based on their army composition?
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Bump.
Practicing the 4-2-2 lately. Love the concept of the build (early pressure to dictate the pace, feints, timings). I love builds like this, that are so perfectly crafted where each step has a specific purpose. I was curious, Sated, do you have any updates on the build, more replays, etc? I've watched all the ones you posted multiple times.
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On April 26 2015 05:49 WOLFGEIST wrote:
Bump.
Practicing the 4-2-2 lately. Love the concept of the build (early pressure to dictate the pace, feints, timings). I love builds like this, that are so perfectly crafted where each step has a specific purpose. I was curious, Sated, do you have any updates on the build, more replays, etc? I've watched all the ones you posted multiple times.
Well, im not sated, but I've been doing the 4-2-2 for quite some time now on ladder. I have found that a more efficient version of it, (at least on 2 player maps) is to open like this.
9pylon (near main nexus)
13 gateway, positioned in some manner to create a 1 hex slit for your zealot in case of early pool.
15 pylon at natural to make a wall=> scout with this probe.
If you see a hatchery first, or no zerglings being made, go straight into natural nexus before making a zealot. Then, take double gas and then go cyber core then another pylon before starting the zealot.
After that, you essentially converge into the 4-2-2 with a later warp gate timing, but significantly larger economy which allows for a stronger gateway attack along with a faster immortal and collosus timing.
On 4 player maps i just do the regular 4-2-2.
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Ah, nice. Thanks for the input.
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What's with drop.sc? I'd love to see these replays but drop.sc is always down.
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EPT
