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Hello Team Liquid!
Since seeing a lot of guides popping up, with various key-layouts and hotkey systems
Like Fleet Keys and TheCore,(seee http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404476 / http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341878) I decided I would contribute with a guide on how to get the most of your hardware, and even considering specialized peripherals.
First of let me preface this thread with saying that i am using (and have been since vanilla WoW) a wide variety of gaming pads / keypads /controllers for all things gaming, for various reasons - most of them relating to ergonomics and hand issues. For these reasons, standard keyboards have always been sub par in my opinion, and in this guide i hope to explain the benefits of specialized equipment, as well as debunk some preconceptions and myths around them too.
Since starting out with SC2, and discovering Grid Hotkey layout back in beta, i have been gaming with a Keypad controller pretty exclusively. I started using the good old Nostromo N52 gaming pad, and later switched to the Razer version, and today i am using the Razer Orbweaver for SC2. Throughout my time with these products i have tried lots of different setups and several different iterations. Today i think i have a solid setup and that is what i want to share with you guys. But first of let's debunk some myths shall we?
Keypads are cheating, you are just using macros for everything!
Answer: + Show Spoiler +While it is perfectly possible to do this with a keypad, the benefits are marginal at best, and besides there's a rule that says, one key-press = one action, everyone needs to follow this rule(regardless of equipment) - besides this is also doable on most "gaming" keyboards - Razers Black Widow among one of the beefier ones with every single key being programmable. - you guys don't do it, and i don't either 
Keypads and gaming keypads are just for FPS and WoW
Answer:+ Show Spoiler + Some keypads are highly specialized for certain games, but most of them are pretty generic, and usable for most PC games (especially if you think a little outside the box - more on that later).
That was the two i am met with the most, here on the forums, and outside in the world, so please if you have questions or concerns, this is also a great place to ask, discuss and share stories.
Now on to why i think it's more optimal to use a gaming keypad device - for most use cases a keyboard is simply to general purpose in my opinion, and especially for games like SC2, where you need as much efficiency as possible without breaking your hand, this stuff becomes important. What a keypad device offers mostly above all is ergonomics, the ability to rest your hand in a absolutely comfortable position, and throughout a game from glhf to gg, you never move it, and you never strain it. For me this is a huge boon, and a reason why i also use keypads for work hot-keys.
Furthermore, since it's a very special and optimal key layout, it's possible to customize your finger movement, like with theCore/Fleet, to always be fully utilized - the problem that the aforementioned layouts suffer from the most, is the lack of thumb action. Most people settle for using their thumb for space, alt, and maybe c, v and x, if they have small hands. - with a keypad akin to the Nostromo/Orbweaver my thumb has access to and performs actions on 6 keys! That is a huge boost to general finger activity and one that i think most people can agree is pretty optimized already ( i have a dream keypad that maybe one day will be made, and then we can talk again hehe).
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So how does this work in SC2? My personal setup is as follows:
SIMPLE EXAMPLE:
+ Show Spoiler +
IN DEPTH:
+ Show Spoiler +
Sc2Hotkeys can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/spyuganenoypqtq/OrbweaverFinal.SC2Hotkeys
Note: The above hotkey setup doesnt make a lot of sense for regular keyboards (well maybe a little if u have a mouse with two buttons). So DL and use at your own discretion. Bonus tip for Notromo users: Bind the scroll wheel up / down to hotkeys as well for some awesome instant-go-to control-group hotkey!
Guide to how it works:
The way i have it setup, is pretty "standard" for the upper part of the keypad, the only difference being that my primary fingers only have access to three control-group hotkeys, this is not a lot at first glance, but the secret is, that the directional "stick" normally used for movement is setup in a way where each primary direction represents a control-group. If you think about the "cycle" idea (where you cycle through key control groups to check their status) it quickly becomes apparent just how perfect this is. Not only does my thumb have twitch movement access to four control groups, i can also literally cycle though my them, by rolling my thumb in a circular motion - pretty neat huh?
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This free's up my primary fingers to take care of things that are normally bound to high strain or difficult to attain apm, like camera hotkeys and drop/hit squad control groups, and so on.
Furthermore you will notice that my mouse also plays a small role in this setup, and in my case it's just used for primary abilities (inject/tumor - storm/feedback - stim - fungal growth/infested terran and so on and so on) - as demonstrated in other hotkey setups.
by now you should get (hopefully) a good idea of just how optimized you could potentially make your setup - to fit your style perfectly.
The Orbweaver however is a pretty big investment, but for me as i use this for gaming all the time i could justify it, but that being said the nostromo worked for me with no issue for almost 6-7 years, and can today be found pretty cheap. I also heard the Logitech one is pretty good, i have never tried it tho (so please share if u have one / use one).
Bonus! Small Tricks:
+ Show Spoiler +1. On the old Nostromo, the scroll wheel can be setup as control groups as well, which is perfectly suited for static check up stuff like upgrade facilites (for toss fx. scroll for forge, it centers on forge, quickly switch to nexus hotkey and chrono-boost them, switch back to army ect ect).
2.On the Orbweaver, i was disappointed at first because the diagonal stick was too sensitive compared to the nostromo, and i almost gave up, however i found the trick, instead of binding it left/right/top/down - switch to button mode and disable every second of the 8 keys now available - apparently when in normal mode, the in-between of up/left for example register as a random key (either up/left or both).
3. when using the diagonal cycle idea, use it for hotkeys in which that makes sense, for me it's for example [back] - Hatchery [up] - queens for inject [forward] main army [down] queens for creep spread. The main board keys are used more interchangeable - mutas, hit squads, evo chambers, infestors, ect
That was a small introduction that i hope peeked your interest, considering the other threads, i hope we can have a good discussion, dispell myths, and maybe start seeing it in professional gaming
Thanks for reading!
[Edit] Added more information, and fixed some weird sentences and words (tho i am sure there is more as written english isnt really my strong side hehe). More Edits: Added some clarification, also my image editing skills are so leet that i messed up QWE in the SC2 screens, its right in the actual hotkey setup tho!
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Nice!
I've recently got a Tartarus, and while I came up with a decent layout for Broodwar (which wasn't easy because Broodwar does not allow costum hotkeys, esp. grid hotkeys) I failed to do a decent one for SC2 because of all the extra buttons SC2 got in comparison to BW (Backspace cycle bases, Tab through units etc.).
So I'm really glad you figured out something useful! For the Tartarus I'll just skip the top row (you can't have everything - no camera keys is fine for me). I like how cycle base is in between the army hotkeys which is a must for efficient inject cycles.
BTW: Did you use the default synapse profile and changed the SC2 layout or vice versa or a combination?
Also: could you please upload your hotkey profile?
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I've never used one of these, but I think it's kind of interesting. The obvious question, imho, is why are no progamers using it (or why do you think that is)? Are none standard keyboards banned in tournaments, is it not as great as advertised or are they just too used to regular keyboards? Because the way you're describing it, it sounds like a clear advantage and I'm not aware of any SC2 or BW player using it at any time.
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Northern Ireland24348 Posts
It's a matter of muscle memory being ingrained, and gains in efficiency not being worth the act of relearning. Hell a lot of players still use BW hotkeys
Pretty cool OP though
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Yeah, i think it comes down to muscle memory for sure, and like i said i used these devices for a long time, and (for gaming at least) know them better than a keyboard. - i do however think you could see how the extra comfort and super quick keys could help pros at the highest level. I mean i know a lot of the issues are most likely related to the mouse hand, but using a keyboard for 300+ apm cant possibly be healthy.
I also think that (looking back at older threads about the issue) there's a certain stigma on these things, elitist thought if you will. Like most casual gamers will agree that two extra mouse button are a nice addition that can help you out, but we hardly see any pros using that either.
Personally i think it would be interesting to see someone push the barriers of comfort and control, using devices like this. I think the relearning curve, depending on how you learn ofourse, is pretty small compared to new hotkey setups for example, because u could lay it out like standard (almost) and just train learning the additional buttons. The idea imo is that it could be for everyone since it's so adjustable.
BTW: Did you use the default synapse profile and changed the SC2 layout or vice versa or a combination?
Also: could you please upload your hotkey profile?
I had to modify the synapse profile because of the issue with the directional stick described in the bonus! section, other than that i didn't modify anything, and just re-mapped in SC2, in the end it doesn't matter as both synapse 2.0 and Bnet is cloud synced. And sure i will upload my profile if you guys want them! (can put them on later!)
Cheers guys! And please ask away!
[Edit]
Actually i did modify the synapse more looking at it now, i will post a more in-depth of my setup later tonight!
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Northern Ireland24348 Posts
@OP, the text is cool but what we need is a keyboard view + screen to see it in action. I for one would definitely tune in to a Youtube video of it or whatever
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On November 20 2013 22:43 Wombat_NI wrote:
@OP, the text is cool but what we need is a keyboard view + screen to see it in action. I for one would definitely tune in to a Youtube video of it or whatever
Hmm, yeah i understand that, i don't have much for video recording though (just my phone) - which might not work so nice, but will try to have a look at it!
But i agree that it would show it off better for sure!
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Can you upload the layout to dropbox again please?
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hey this is great, just bought an orbweaver a few days ago and was wondering how to best put it to use. Still can't decide if a black widow tourney would be the more practical solution...
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well let me tell you that it doesnt matter.
im a 2 handicap golfer and my main set of clubs is about £4000 worth of gear, its nice, i like it, people wow when they see it . . .can you tell me then why the 2nd best round i ever did was with a friends £79 starter set as he was totally convinced the reason he was terrible was because of his gear. If you have the root skill then you can do anything unless the final output is a performance issue.(car racing for example)
(you could argue if u get a decent keyboard for sc2 and it can input 2 commands at once, ull make more mistakes when you key spam . . just food for thought)
good equipment to me ones thing, reliability and durability. the good stuff simply lasts longer. Another example. My marauder keyboard broke a year ago. I got a £6 replacement from asda. I really liked the way it felt, didnt bother replacing it, i sit at the top of my division when i bash sc2, sadly sc2 is too much and now its fucked . . .so im really at 2 minds iof i should just replace it with another or just go for the £100+ choice . . .just because it looks nicer.
Hotkeys. - The pros take their whole hands off the mouse to do some actions, there is a fully cutomisable interface in the game to set it up how you want. all you need is intelligence for some of the creative things u can do with bindings.
Sorry kids. Im going to say that the equipment for improvement doesnt matter, although it does feel better, makes you fell better and looks a bit nicer(and this is not always true)
Listen. Practice. Of course the cheap gear isnt impressive to show off but for me you dont need any of it. its an excuses for poor play and understanding of the thing you are doing
edit @guy below my post - My piece is trying to say exactly that, improvement doesnt really come from the equipment, but if having it makes you feel better then hey, i suppose it indirectly affects performance
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oh for sure, i like that meeting point between enjoyment, reliability, and performance. For me its about all three. I'm not looking to upset the sc2 world with my skills, but enjoy the game and process of growing etc, the most.
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Your computer should be a dual-core or newer to even play SC2. That's important.
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Couple of recommendations.
1. I use the middle mouse button to select idle workers now. Tip from Soulbound's setup. This free's up the button for select all army. Of course you could reverse it if you already like the setup as is, and use the middle mouse button for select all army.
2. What I don't like is the production being on the D-pad. I use a Naga Hex Moba mouse, so I move the production to the hotkeys where the army is, and use mouse buttons for the 2,3,6,5 for army.
3. Being right handed, I prefer the flow to start with my pointer being one middle being 2, etc. So reverse the order of GRID to meet that since it has less to do with the Keys names verses the mappings. If you want I can illustrate it.
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I's a shame you can't make a macro in the razer software, that activates a button and additionally changes to a different keymap. That way you could simulate construction menus on a tartarus / orbweaver for blizzard games without grid layouts like Broodwar and Warcraft 2
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On September 15 2014 23:42 LDAP wrote:
I use the middle mouse button to select idle workers now. Tip from Soulbound's setup. This free's up the button for select all army. Of course you could reverse it if you already like the setup as is, and use the middle mouse button for select all army.
Oh my god this is a scary post lol. The temptation...
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I have always played SC2 wih the N52 keypad.
As I've always played random, I wanted a setup which adapted to every race.. and have always prefered the grid layout too, which perfectly fits with the keypad with its 3 rows of 5 buttons.
My G3 mouse (with additional 2 side buttons and two top buttons near the wheel) completes my set up.
My keybounds are the following:
Mouse:
Side button 1: Ctrl
Side button 2: Shift
Top button 1: Ctrl + Left Click (find it often faster then doing Side 1 + Left click or double left click, especially on moving units)
Top button 2: I just keep the TeamSpeak push-to-talk here
N52
Note: my N52 version is a bit different: only three rows, and missing the bottom right button, having a wheel instead. Here's a pic:
![[image loading]](http://www.mrgadget.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/belkin_n52te_n52_tournament_edition.jpg)
Wheel: Tab / Shift+Tab.
Cross-Shape Side Pad: Up/Down/Right/Left, to adjust the camera when needed
Thumb Horizontal button: while pressed, activates the alternative keybinds.
Normal Keybinds:
all keys bind to the sc2 grid, with the vertical thumb button binding the bottom right grid command
Alternative keybinds (When horizontal thumb button is pressed):
Bottom and middle rows bind to the army/production hotkeys (1-9). I usually bind production to the bottom row, and army to the mid row.
Upper row binds some other useful keys: Backspace,select all army, select idle workers, 2 camera keys.
(note that the vertical thumb button has no alternative bind, as it's not possible to press it while the thumb holds the horizontal thumb button)
Actually, I would have prefered to switch the two keybind setups (it would make checking production facilities quicker, not needing to hold the thumb button), but with the "missing" button in lower row, it would make the alternate keybind missing the 15th button for the command grid. If you have a N52 with more buttons, I would suggest doing that.
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Although I don't use my Nostromo for SC2, I ab-so-lu-te-ly love it. So I might give this a go Tnx!
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I remeber when I first tried the N52 on WoW long ago.. was used to the keybard before that. First week was an hell.. I was almost unable to even walk around the world properly. But once you get used to that, it makes things SO much easier. Having right below a single hand virtually 30 buttons (up to 45 if you wanted to use also the additional alternative layout) makes it so much faster!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/96uUFIT.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JDL80nc.png)
