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4M TvZ Part 2: The American Way

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
105 CommentsPost a Reply
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4M TvZ Part 2: The American Way

Text byTL Strategy
Graphics byNaganis, Nicopower5000
October 21st, 2013 15:59 GMT

(Wiki)Liquipedia

Contents



Introduction

Polt vs Jaedong
on Bel'Shir Vestige
Part I: Timeline of Events
Part II: Polt's Goals and How he Won

Polt vs Jaedong
on Neo Planet S.

Polt vs Jaedong
on Derelict Watcher

Polt vs Hyun
on Akilon Wastes

Opening and Build Orders

Conclusion and Replay Pack

Introduction


Terran vs Zerg is a match up in constant flux. The metagame on both sides swings between greed and aggression. The meta has stabilized to a point where a player must be able to pressure a greedy opponent while still being able to defend vs an aggressive one. Regardless of the Terran's choice to open two command or three, they are forced to scout and react to very specific findings.

One player has found an amazing way to walk this razors edge without having to make blind choices in his games: his name is CMPolt. We will be taking an in depth look at how Polt accomplishes this and what we can learn from it. Please note, you should have read the guide titled, “4M: A Guide to Modern TvZ” as I will be assuming that the contents found inside of it are common knowledge to anyone reading this article.

This guide will go through several of Polt's games in order to explain both the specifics of his build and some deviations that are used to adapt to the Zerg's play. The first game looked at will provide a baseline and be more detailed. The next three games will then be compared to the baseline game in order to understand how the build is adapted to each opponent.

How Polt Wins
Watching a lot of Polt games will quickly reveal that Polt is a player plagued with some very specific weaknesses. Polt does not multitask like other top tier Korean Terrans. Polt does not always have the macro that his fellow Terrans display. There will be countless examples of soaring money as he micros a hellion run-by, or of him losing small to mid sized armies simply because he did not look at them and micro at all during the five or six second fight.

That is ok. Polt does not use mechanics to win: Polt is a master of map control, decision making, and positioning. You will be hard pressed to find a player better at these ideas in all of the Starcraft II. The level of understanding that he brings to the table in terms of these three items is beyond daunting and inspires awe in all that take the time to look. With that in mind, lets take a look at his unique TvZ style.

Polt's TvZ
Polt plays to win with his decision making. In TvZ, he favors a 4M mid game. Polt has an adaptive opening that offers an amazingly fine tuned approach to both greedy and aggressive Zerg choices. Polt has been using this opening and style for over a month now and there has been no hard counter employed thus far.

Polt vs Jaedong on Bel'Shir Vestige

from WCS AM Finals. Set 1

Vod Polt vs Jaedong on Bel'Shir Vestige Set 1. From WCA AM Finals.

Part I: Time Line of Events


It should be noted that Polt will be using an opening and overall game plan that he has shown several times over the month leading up to this game. Jaedong will have surely seen these games. There is nothing in this game that Polt had not used in a professional game before. This game, and the others vs Jaedong, are from a WCS AM finals where the winner would receive thousands of dollars more than the loser.
This first section of the Game Analysis part of the article will be very detail oriented. Every action of Polt will be examined in order to enrich the analysis in part two.
[0:00 to 5:40] Polt spawns in the bottom location and opens with a very standard reaper FE. He does not go for an overly aggressive 11 barracks, nor does he over commit and send both reapers out. He sends the first reaper straight to the Zerg main and rallies the second into his natural. He arrives in the Zerg main to the sight of four zerglings hatching and an extractor with about 30 gas already mined. His reaper does not kill a single unit and retreats at the 5:30 mark. Behind the reaper play, Polt added the standard reactor/factory/bunker. In a not so standard move, he also adds a starport.

[5:40 to 7:20] The two reapers camp near the front of the Terran natural as Polt adds a second gas and a tech lab to the barracks. The first two hellions rally straight to the likely location of the third base and a viking is produced at the starport. Further hellion production is used to clear out any zerglings on Polts side of the map. The scouting hellions spot the third base of Jaedong at 6:30 and immediately head towards the Zerg natural where they spot two queens and the first signs of creep spread. The two hellions retreat to the watch tower where two new hellions rally in to meet them. Upon meeting up at the tower, the four hellions proceed to the other tower. As his fifth and sixth hellion spawn out, a small zergling attack comes into his natural. Polt pulls all forces home to deal with the force and loses very little as his units were close to his natural when this hit. Polt's viking spawns and begins a multi waypoint attack move that ensure that no overlord will be left alive that is not safely flying over creep. Marauder production now begins out of the tech lab barracks and the final depots are added to the wall off in the natural.

[7:20 to 8:30] The standard six hellion two reaper timing attack heads towards the third of Jaedong. The group hits the watch tower closest to Jaedong's third base on its way. Stim pack, marauders, mines, and one medivac are being produced behind this move out. The reaper/hellion pack arrives at the third and scouts no drones. The pack turns instantly towards the natural of Jaedong and dodges three out of position queens and two evolution chambers [8:05]. The small force scouts two gas at the natural and kills a few drones before attempting to run into the main where they spot that Jaedong has one gas still free before dying.

[image loading]
I told you that Polt does not have the best macro...

[8:30 to 9:30] As the force dies, Polt quickly shifts his attention back to his macro. He adds his third command center, barracks number two and three, two gas, and then two engineering bays. He sends out his now finished medivac with two mines loaded into it towards the Zerg main base. He halts all marauder production and continues to make mines out of the factory and one more medivac out of the starport. He rounds out his mid game infrastructure with two more barracks as barracks number two and three are at about 50% completion. As the medivac arrives in the Zerg main, he drops one mine in the main mineral line and then moves to drop another in the natural mineral line. He is able to see the morphing lair. The medivac safely boosts home and the mines camp the mineral lines until they die.

[9:30 to 11:00] With only seconds before stim to finishes up, all four marauders that Polt has are loaded into a medivac and speed towards the third base of Jaedong. Polt's infrastructure begins to finish up. He starts +1/+1 and combat shields as he adds reactors to his now finished buildings. He lands the marauders off of creep near the Zerg's third and then stims them onto creep targeting down two queens before lifting and flying towards the likely site of Jaedongs future fourth base. He finally adds an armory -- when +1/+1 is about 50% done -- and begins non stop marine, mine, medivac production.

[11:30 to 13:00] The marauder filled medivac lands its force in a hidden spot near where the fourth base will most likely be placed. The marauders aggressively poke from that location to the closest current location covered by creep. Back on his side of the map, his third orbital command is approaching its desired mining location and a supply depot wall is instantly set up to block an attack path to the new base. Two bunkers are added at a defensive rally location that provides cover to all three bases. Mines join the bunkers in a spread out formation. Right at the 12:00 mark a second factory is added and the four marauders spot an attempted fourth base: the marauders stim forward and shut this down. As lings arrive to drive the marauders away, Polt lifts up and boosts back towards home. As +1/+1 approaches completion, Polt adds two more bunkers in the defensive rally as well as a bunker, sensor tower, turret, and one gas at his third base. The second factory that Polt made is given a tech lab as soon as it finished.

[13:00 to 16:15] As +1/+1 finishes, +2/+2 starts and the burrow upgrade for widow mines begins shortly afterwards. A small force of about 16 marines and three medivacs advance to control the watch tower closest to Polt's bases. Mutalisks are revealed and snipe the viking. A lone marine is sent from the group at the tower towards the normal fifth base location on Jaedong's side of the map and the rest of the force swings remains on a ramp near the watch tower in a defensive formation. Polt starts his final three barracks at this point. Once Polt has gathered seven mines and a large bio/medivac force, he pushes towards a location that provides access to Jaedong's fourth. Holding this position also denies an entire half of the map's counter attack paths. He baits a small engagement right off of creep and then uses a scan to clear a large area of tumors. He positions his force on the high ground leading to the Jaedong's fourth forcing to deal with Polt's army. Jaedong executes a 14 zergling run by into Polt's third base while sending in a force of 17 banelings, eight mutalisks, and ten zerglings to take care of the bio mine force camping near his fourth. Every baneling and zergling dies. The last three barracks of Polt finish up, going straight into marine production and without any add ons. A followup wave is able to clean Polt's remaining force on the high ground. Polt rallies in forces to punish the pursuing Zerg player and establish a safe rally point on the low ground with an attack path leading straight to the fourth base nearby. Polt begins +1 armor for mech and and a fourth command center. Polt postures near the fourth base a bit but does not commit onto creep.


The yellow arrow indicates the goal for our rally point
and the white arrow indicates the crucial area that our
army moved to first in order to help ensure solid map
control.
[16:15 to 19:45] +2/+2 finishes and +3 attack begins. Another zergling run by does damage to Polt's economy at the third base. Small groups of eight marines stim forward onto creep to poke at the fourth base of Jaedong. They run and micro back at the first sign of Zerg units. The rest of Polt's force is pre spread with burrowed mines a small distance from the edge of creep allowing Polt a certain amount of insurance against over-extending. The aggressive poking onto the creep is fairly constant at this point and provokes a counter push towards Polt's forward rally. This quickly changes from push to over-extension as spread and burrowed mines supported by the next wave of Terran bio easily punish the off creep Zerg player. Polt's aggression does not let up as he extends his position to the hatchery. He is now content to fight at the edge of creep and snipe a single extractor and to watch for the Zerg player to get inpatient and overextend into his aggressive rally and mine field. More run-bys are attempted by Jaedong but they are shut down easily for the first time all game.

[19:46 to 21:35] At 19:46 Polt has every single marine near the aggressive rally stim and run straight at the Zerg's fourth. He aggressively pre-spreads them as they go onto creep and scans to the north so he can see any Zerg units in the area. +3 attack finishes at 19:55. Jaedong trades a large part of his muta/ling/bane army to repel this attack. Polt lost around 20 marines and a few mines while Jaedong loses four mutas, 12 banes, a queen, around 14-20 zerglings, and a few drones. As Jaedong kills the last of the first wave, the second wave of 12 marines, 3 mines, and 4 medivacs arrive. Polt scans and then aggressively stims and attacks: killing two burrowed banes as he races toward the hatchery. The force positions itself between the lower gas and the hatchery. 14 mutas and around 24 zerglings repel the force. Polt focus fires mutas and ten of them fall for in exchange for the 12 marines. With that group of marines dead, the meds boost back and join the next approaching force of 12 marines, three mines, and two medivacs. This time, Polt brings some mines onto creep as he attacks the now defenseless hatchery. As the fourth base falls, Jaedong attempts one last run-by into Polt's main which is shut down instantly by units that have just spawned. The last remaining mutas run into marines and the gg is thrown down by Jaedong.

Part II: Polt's Goals and How He Won


Now lets look at the game a totally different way. In order to understand both how Polt won and why he choose to do things, we shall look at the game as a series of decisions and goals. If we start with the end of the game, and work our way to the start, we will begin to see a clear set of goals that he accomplishes. These goals were designed to create a series of advantages that lead to a clean win.
Authors Note: I highly recommend doing this type of analysis when trying to learn or understand how to play vs a specific style. I break the game into phases -- as seen above -- and look at each section in a reverse order. You will be able to see how each phase leads to the next when you look at it as a relationship of what was accomplished and what is to be accomplished afterward.
[Checkmate] [19:46 to 21:35] Polt's last decision of the game, that led to the winning blow, was to attack into Jaedong's fourth base as +3 attack finished up. It is most likely true that he would have preferred this to be a 3/3 timing attack instead of a 3/2, but I believe Polt simply made a mistake and forgot +3 armor for a very long time. In many of his other games, Polt goes for the +3/+3 timing when facing a Zerg going for the same style as Jaedong.

Why Does That Work?
A question about why a decision or attack works is always answered by looking at the state of the enemy shortly before, or right when, the attack hits. Let's take a look Jaedong's game state at 19:45.

Jaedong has recently finished his hive. +3/+3 have just started and no tech buildings have been added. He is producing about five mutas, ten banes, and 14 zerglings. His bank is sitting at 170 minerals and 13 gas. His creep spread is very limited on the side of the map where his fourth base is and only slightly on Polt's side of the map on the other. To put it simply, Jaedong is trying tech up but can't because he has to spend gas on units like mutas and banes. In fact, he has to spend a lot of gas making these units.

Polt, on the other hand, has just increased his ability for marines to handle banes and mutas. +3 attack makes marines terrifying and able to kill these units very fast. On top of that, Polt is making 12 marines, two medivacs, and three mines with each production cycle. With medivacs being able to boost out of battles as they end, and mines burrowing outside of Jaedong's safe engage zones, Polt has created a situation where Jaedong must spend large amounts of gas in order to trade units and stop each wave of mineral only marines.

Polt's end game goal this game is to hit an anti-hive timing where Jaedong would be forced to trade his gas units for Polt's mineral units. This denies Jaedong the ability to get out real hive tech and punishes him for having spent gas at this timing on anything besides units.

Goal: Kill the Zerg's Fourth Base as +3/(+3) Finishes
[Check] [16:15 to 19:45] Polt constantly pokes at the the exposed fourth base from the safety of his forward rally point. Jaedong is forced to remake mutas and banes with each battle.

Jaedong is gas starved and has just capped his ability to increase the efficiency of his ling/bane/muta force on lair tech: as +2/+2 finishes. Since he must get his hive in order to upgrade further, he must continue to remake very expensive gas units in order to hold his exposed fourth base.

Jaedong is beginning to feel the lessened power of his low tech units vs +2/+2 marines even despite the effectiveness of his run-bys. Jaedong's only mineral dump, therefore, has lost its effectiveness vs Polt's mineral dump.

Jaedong made at least 49 banes and 21 mutas during this three minute timing alone. He most likely made an additional 14 (or more) banes and five (or more) mutas but I only counted what the production tab would show me and the casters had it off several times during the timing. This is well over 3000 gas. 3000 gas spent on lair tech units while hive is morphing.

Polt wanted to ensure that as Jaedong entered hive tech, he would not have the gas to start an end game army. Polt carefully conserved medivacs and mines wherever possible. Never fighting on creep, but keeping the fights constant, also helps to ensure that a group of marines will be always approaching. If Polt maxes out, there is a danger of having one fight clear out his entire force; if this happens, nothing will be moving towards his rally for a long time. The very nature of the constant rally is revealed here: never max so that the Zerg has to spend gas constantly and so that there is never a lull in the timing between fights.

Goal: Constantly Engage and Trade Units
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: the Zerg will be unable to get out hive units to counter the +3 marines and the attack will arrive at his fourth instantly due to our position on the map. The positioning and constant nature of the pokes will ensure that he has a group of marines ready for when the +3 timing hits.

[13:00 to 16:15] +1/+1 and the third base are now set up and locked down, Polt can now bid for map control and examine the position of his opponent. He accomplishes this by moving out to the closest watch tower. This obviously provides vision, but more importantly, places a soft lock on all of Jaedongs efforts -- anything from attacks to creep spread or even scouting units -- on the bottom left quadrant of the map. He extends this effort by sending a single marine to normal fifth base location on Jaedong's side of the map. This simple move out of +1/+1 bio to a slightly forward position is hallmark of Polt's expert map control skills.

The move out allows Polt to spots mutalisks which, when combined with the knowledge of the Zerg's third base timing, confirms a non all-in play-style out of Jaedong. Polt can now be sure of where the fourth of Jaedong will likely be, and what his end game series of goals will be. It is at this point that Polt -- having seen a Zerg player on three bases with mutalisks out on the map -- should consider the rest of the game laid out before him. He knows exactly what must be done and is going to be proactive about it.

Keep in mind, his next goal is to gain a position in which he can both poke the fourth and avoid fighting on creep, the target of constant rally is now revealed.

Polt needs to clear his way towards the his eventual attack point and rally location. Jaedong is going to make him fight for every step towards it. When Polt finds the edge of Jaedong's creep spread, he stims forward a small group of his marines and baits out an attack from banes and mutas onto mines. When the banes die, he stims the rest of his army onto the creep and throws down two scans back to back. The combo of winning a fight and using two scans allows Polt to kill a good number of creep tumors.

Understanding Polt's next move is a difficult one. Looking at what Jaedong is doing at this moment (14:14 game time) can provide some clues. Jaedong is making 17 banelings, finishing up his upgrades, and completing his fourth base. In other words Jaedong's +2/+2 ground upgrades and +1/+0 air upgrades are not yet finished and he is spending a lot of money on banelings. Larva is currently only being produced out of four hatcheries instead of the soon to be five. All of this adds up to a strong focus on gas based units that are currently weaker than they soon will be. On Polt's end of the game, he is producing nine marines, two meds, and two mines at a time. Three more barracks are to come on line very shortly.

With Jaedong focusing on muta/bane, and Polt wanting to set up the kill move with his +3 timing, Polt goes for a very tricky move that abuses the utility just now offered of a constant rally to the battle line: he moves his entire attacking force of 14 marines, three marauders, six medivacs, and seven mines onto creep into an extremely aggressive location. This is the StarCraft equivalent of placing the enemy king in check. Jaedong is forced to defend the fourth by killing this seemingly over-extended army right now or find a way to deal with a large well entrenched Terran army that has a constant rally with two attack paths to his fourth (one of which would have a high ground advantage). There are countless advantages offered to Polt if Jaedong allows him to have this position.

Jaedong now does the only thing he can do: attack with the army getting as good of a surround as possible. The two trade armies. Polt would have, ideally, lifted his bio into the medivacs that were present and allowed his mines to do the damage but a zergling run-by at his third base distracts him. Looking at how this leaves Jaedong with no living banelings and Polt with a rally soon to be arriving, Polt has won a small advantage that he can now use to gain ground on his goal rally position. Polt makes a token effort to retake the high ground and save his mines but Jaedong's muta flock is able to force them to back off. Jaedong attempts to push out off of creep at this point in an effort to keep Polt away from the vulnerable lower attack path to his fourth but is not able to muster the army needed to fight off the rally of Terran units.

Within 45 game seconds of Polt giving up the area that he had seemingly been sacrificing entire armies to gain, Polt has secured a position that will allow him to deny creep spread from the Zerg's fourth base from starting at all. Polt does not commit to holding the location with his forces until he has another wave of units join with his army. With their arrival, he plants mines in a large spread area off of creep. His rally right next to the Zerg's base is now secure and any attempt of Jaedong's to fight off creep near his fourth will be an over-extension. From here, he pokes onto the high ground with a small group to deny any creep or spot any flanks and waits the remaining few seconds needed for +2/+2 to finish up.

I consider this apparent suicide attack onto the high ground one of the smartest moves of the entire game as it forces Jaedong to either: give the Terran an amazingly powerful position on the map; or to trade a very gas heavy army and deny the position. Jaedong destroyed the Terran force in a brutal fashion and Polt was still in a better position than the Zerg as a result. Brilliant.

Goal: Kill as Many Gas Units as Possible or Establish the Best Possible Forward Rally to the Zerg's Fourth Base
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: Without a maxed, or near max, army of upgraded lair units Jaedong has no hope of winning a single fight that will allow him to push the Terran back. We can, therefore, easily take the position on the map needed to execute the killing move later on.

Had Jaedong allowed Polt to have the position he would have surely lost the fourth base during Polt's +2/+2 timing. The game would have played differently with Jaedong most likely attempting to take a fourth on the other side of the map but Polt's position would be even stronger than what occurred in this game.

Hidden Goal: Choose how we want to win the game. This will be discussed a bit later in the guide, but this is when Polt will know what macro style Jaedong has opted for. With that knowledge, Polt will enact a very set plan that caters to the weakness of the Zerg's choice of strategy.

[11:30 to 13:00] This timing is really about closing out the games opening and setting up for the mid game. Polt uses his medivac with marauders to draw some attention away as his third command center lands and the supply depot wall goes up. He adds bunkers at multiple locations and burrows defensive mines. Two bunkers and three mines cover one attack path leading to his natural and third, while one bunker and one mine cover an attack path blocked by supply depots that leads to his third.

A small time later, he adds a few more bunkers to the area between his natural and third as well as a sensor tower at his third. The viking clears out the last few overlords and his marauder drop denies an attempt at taking a fourth by Jaedong. The marauder drop does its job of pulling Jaedong back as Polt's third and additional defenses go up now complete. Once the drop's role is done, it pulls back to join up with the first wave of marines from Polt's now completed barracks. Seconds later, +1/+1 will finish and Polt will have safely made it to the mid game with a very secure three base economy and a muscular production capability.

Goal: Safely get up the Third Mining Base and Finish Adding the Mid-Game Production Buildings
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: Polt needs three bases to support a constant rally. All of the defense and sim city not only allow Polt to hold all-ins that hit during this timing, but help to aid him vs zergling run-bys during the later stages of the game. This will help to ensure that his constant rally of marines is allowed out onto the map instead of constantly running back to defend. Imagine how much damage Jaedong's run-bys would have done this game if Polt hadn't undertaken these precautions.

[9:30 to 11:00] Two mines are dropped and deny mining from two of the three Zerg bases for a short time. 16 drones are pulled for 22 seconds at the main and a small number are pulled for less than a second at the natural. Two drones are also forced into becoming spores due to the lack of a completed lair. That is a total of about 250 minerals of lost mining time (tested on same map with Zerg how many minerals 16 workers harvest in 22 seconds and averaged the result of 5 such tests and then rounded up from 246.4 to 250 for ease of reference) and 150 minerals for the two drones and spores.

This drop provides valuable scouting information. Seeing a normally timed lair -- any lair finished before 9:30 should be considered very fast and any lair not started by or shortly after 9:30 should be considered very late -- and no unusually early tech buildings , Polt can safely assume a macro style out of Jaedong. Had he seen signs of fast mutas, roaches, banelings, or even a nydus, Polt would have the luxury of not making add-ons at his barracks in order to get units out quickly to help defend any aggression. Any signs of an attack out of Jaedong would also allow Polt to keep his marauder drop at home and help in defense.

With no danger spotted by the first drop, the second drop is able to leave Polt's base and head towards Jaedong's third. Polt targets down two queens (even ignoring two morphing tumors to do so) and then pulls back to heal. He is able to clearly see that there is no gas taken at the third base.

Polt now has a clear picture of the most likely path of Jaedong's focus. With so little gas income and the lack of any macro hatcheries Jaedong only really can expand at this point. The nature of the Zerg race essentially requires a Zerg to maximize mineral income for his economy, and then to maximize gas income to create a proper army. Jaedong is clearly trying to accomplish some type of greedy element in the near future. Polt knows that Jaedong wants to expand to a fourth, has two evo chambers, and a normal timed lair. Many options for Jaedong exist but they all of a set of plays that Polt does not need to react to till after he is on three bases and has his production in place.

Goal: Scouting, put the Zerg on Either a Timing Attack Style or Macro Style
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: Every Terran on the ladder knows all about Zerg two/three base aggression. It comes in many varieties and can be very hard to scout. With a scout of all three bases, Polt should be hard to surprise as he takes his third base. Zerg creep will also be limited by the marauders. This is not felt as a large bonus until much later in the game but it is clear that denying queens from spreading creep will aid in future efforts to push creep back. The small loss of minerals and mineral income compounds results of the viking killing many overlords.

[8:30 to 9:30] This is where Polt begins to power up. His recently completed viking begins a well designed route of overlord killing. It starts by clearing any overlord that is spotting behind or around his natural. Once done, it heads west along the bottom edge of the map. It makes a brief stop to clear out any overlord that would be hanging out near or over Polt's future third base location and continues along the bottom edge until it is forced to turn north. It heads through the two western edge bases and then turns to take a south eastern path back towards Polt's main. It skims the upper edge of Polts main and then turns north and clears out the bases on the eastern edge of the map. It doubles back towards his main with a path slightly more central than what it took north. It takes a final path towards the logical fifth base location on Jaedong's side of the map and then finds a rest at the edge of the ramp leading to Polt's watchtower.


The red line shows the approximate path that the viking took
via waypoints.
The viking clears out the overlords near Polt's own bases then clears out the overlords on the side of the map on which his first drop would arrive. It then was used to clear the out the side of the map that the marauder drop would be heading towards. Finally, it was used to spot for any hatchery at the fifth base location at the same time that the marauders where checking the logical fourth.

The ability to shift click attack moves allowed for Polt to create this pathing. It does not complete for a long time and will be causing pressure and lose of map control all the way to the 13:00 mark when it arrives at its resting point.

Goal: Add buildings and take some map control
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: Polt's drops will be more likely to hit unexpectedly and Jaedong will not be able to take the map control which overlords normally claim. This is on top of the pressure that this puts on Jaedong's economy due to having to replace overlords.

[7:20 to 8:30] The hellion/reaper serves a unique purpose in Polt's plan. On the surface, it appears to be a suicide run to kill drones; however, it is actually a trick to limit the choices of the Zerg player. These hellions are normally used to make it safe to land the very fast third command center that many Terrans favor: Polt has a different use for them.

This is a play that forces the Zerg to have just enough invested into units so that he does not die while still not too many that he is stunting his own economy. Any Zerg that is teching or droning too hard will simply lose too much to recover; and as such, Polt does not have to account for such plays in his plans for later stages of the game. With this run-by, the Zerg will either have a plan that does not allow hellions to get in at all, or Polt will get in and do way too much damage. We will see an example of Zerg denying entry completely later on.

When I first saw this game, I was very confused and in agreement with Day[9]'s analysis of general dislike for the move. Having seen this move in action in Polt's games vs other styles, however, I understand that's its purpose is not so much to do damage as it is to force the Zerg to have a certain amount of defense, or to reveal his intentions by blatantly blocking his entrance 100%.

Goal: Hit the Economy with a Force of Six Hellions and Two Reapers and Kill as Many Drones as Possible
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: It allows Polt to narrow down the types of Zerg styles that he has to account for.

[5:40 to 7:20] Two reapers remain at home while the first two hellions scout for a third. Once the third and natural are each given a quick scout, the hellions join with the next wave and clear out watch towers. Hellions five and six spawn as Polt is finishing up his natural wall off.

Goal: Scout and Safely Secure the Natural Base
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: Upon spotting the third base Polt will be able to do a mine drop with confidence of it being effective the mines not being needed at home to defend some extremely early timing.

[0:00 to 5:40] A single reaper is always able to scout a Zerg's gas timing and confirm that only 100 gas was mined in a standard opening. The other reaper should always be able to hold off any cute tactics with early zerglings to deny the low ground command center.

Goal: Scout the Zerg and Protect the Building Command Center.
How this helps Polt accomplish his next goal: Seeing gas, and the amount mined, allows Polt to know if there will be zergling speed or not and if there is some kind of super early attack incoming with either roaches or banelings. Seeing enough gas for zergling speed will tell Polt to leave the reapers at home until he needs them for the six hellion two reaper timing. If he had not seen gas at all, he would be able to safely send them with the first hellions and rally hellions forward to establish a soft contain.

Polt vs Jaedong on Neo Planet S

from WCS AM Finals. Set 3: Two Base Muta into Muta/Zergling/Baneling

Vod Polt vs Jaedong on Neo Planet S Set 3. From WCS AM Finals.
This game follows the exact same plan as game one and every difference that occurs is an intentional reaction by Polt to what Jaedong is doing. Here is the breakdown of what Jaedong does differently and how Polt modifies his play to react appropriately:

Jaedong Goes for a Gasless Opening
What does this mean? This means that Jaedong will be using mineral only items to secure his first expansion. Zergling speed will be extremely delayed. It is more likely to see queens and spine crawlers to hold early game pressure. Early hatch based tech plays are very unlikely. The most likely followups by Jaedong are to either take a very fast third base or to go for a two base lair tech play. In this game, Jaedong chooses to add gas and tech to lair before he even attempts to take a third base.

How does Polt react? Instead of keeping both reapers at home he sends the second reaper to join the forward force as the first two hellions spawn. The hellion/reaper force bounces between the two likely third base locations that Jaedong will be going for and snipe creep tumors when possible. He engages the queens lightly but does not trade any of the units.

Jaedong Does not Have a Third by 6:30
What does this mean? This means that Jaedong is going to tech up to something on two bases before taking his third base. With the gasless opening seen in this particular game, it is very likely to be a lair tech followup instead of a hatchery tech follow up.

How does Polt react? Polt does attempt to dive into the natural with his six hellion and two reaper force but Jaedong blocks it with a wall off. Since Jaedong is still on two bases, Polt does not do a mine drop and keeps the mines defensive. Polt's usual marauder drop is shut down by mutas. Upon seeing the mutas, Polt throws down two turrets (one in each mineral line) and positions one mine in his natural, two on the edge of his main, and one at his future third base. He throws down a fourth command center in his main before he even takes his third base. Polt waits for +1/+1 to be almost finished before floating to his third base.

The fourth command center is a key reaction point that can not be overlooked. Polt does not really use this command center to flood out SCVs, but instead uses it to allow for a greater number of scans and mules than normal. This helps him to both, keep his income up in the face of harassment, and to clear out the larger amount of creep that is present due to the delay in taking map control due to the muta play.

Jaedong Transitions into Muta/Zergling/Baneling out of his Two Base Muta Opening.
What does this mean? Jaedong is bringing the game back to standard play after a different opening. How does Polt react? Polt brings his mid game in line with standard play as well. He uses the +1/+1 timing to establish his third base. He does not move out with his troops until he has safely filled a bunker, built the supply depot wall, and finished a sensor tower at the third. Once safely established, he pushes out to clear creep that is extending from the Zerg's fourth base.

As +2/+2 comes into play and +3/+3 starts, Polt seems to be in a losing position. This, however, is not the case. A careful examination of the game state reveals why. At the 16:05 game time mark we can see that Polt has 44 SCVs and that Jaedong has 80 drones. Polt has a total of 125 food and Jaedong has a total of 172 food. In total, the army sizes of the two players is only 11 in favor of Jaedong. More importantly, Polt is able to maintain the income needed to build out of all eight barracks, two factories, and the single starport and Jaedong is being forced to spend his gas as he acquires it. In essence, the main goal of Polt is being accomplished and Jaedong is going to be gas starved as he tries to both defend his fourth base and tech to hive. Polt only spends money on workers when large hits from banes bring him below 40 total workers.

At the 17:16 mark, Jaedong has 85 workers and 146 food compared to Polt's 44 workers and 108 food. That is a difference of 3 army supply favoring Polt. Jaedong is now starting his tech to hive and Polt is teching to +3/+3. Polt has cleared the creep completely to the fourth base before +3/+3 is done and continues to poke and force trades off creep.

Polt finishes +3/+3 at 20:45. He has 142 food and 102 army supply. Jaedong has 107 Army supply. Polt attacks at 21:05 and quickly kills the base. Jaedong gets his first feel of hive tech moments later with the completion of adrenal glands but it is too little too late.

Polt vs Jaedong on Derelict Watcher

from WCS Finals. Set 4: 3 Base All-In

This game follows the exact same plan as game one and every difference that occurs is an intentional reaction by Polt to what Jaedong is doing. Jaedong blindly counters the small moves of Polt's opening and then goes for a roach/bane attack on three bases. For our purposes, this will be a short section just to highlight how Polt is able to stick to his plan even when denied the perks of his opening and has to deal with a large mid game attack that would throw off most Terrans. There is very little decision making based changes in this game so we will be examining in a different style than the last game.

Polt Does not Make Hellions.
Polt makes zero hellions this game. He opens CC first and goes straight to mines for a stronger mine drop. Having watched this series, and many of Polt's games, I strongly suspect that this was a calculated risk. It is meant for best of X series and not for a standard play discussion. Jaedong blocks this by having a spore ready at every base but does not abuse the fact that any very ling heavy play would have done a lot of damage to this variation on the opening.

Polt's Mine Drops are Completely Deflected
And this is fine. Polt drops the mines to kill an overlord near the base he was deflected from. His logic is to do at least some damage and get out of there since his main objective was deflected. He lifts two mines back into his medivac and sends one to the logical location for a fourth base and burrows it there. The medivac returns home and the marauder drop phase begins.

The Marauder Drop is Completely Deflected
It's like Jaedong has seen this build before ... Polt is forced to run with the drop to keep the units alive. Just like with the mine drop, Polt favors keeping the units alive over forcing damage. He retreats and joins the medivac up with the rest of his army. As +1/+1 finishes, he moves out and tries to open up the path to where he thinks Jaedong will be taking a fourth. He has yet, through any of the pokes so far, to see what mid game unit composition Jaedong will be favoring so he throws down a scan and spots roach play.

3 Base Roach/Bane!
Polt adds a few more bunkers to his defensive rally and prepares for the attack. Mines are burrowed in a spread out fashion and bunkers each only have one unit in them. The bust breaks through the bunkers and Polt pulls SCVs as it hits his natural. The bust is broken and Polt stabilizes as +2/+2 nears completion.

+2/+2 in a Post-Bust World.
Polt first rebuilds his defensive rally. When +2/+2 is finished he pushes out and begins to aggressively clear creep in the middle of the map. With a mine at one location for a fourth to go down at, Polt scans the other location a fourth can easily be placed and finds Jaedong's fourth before it is even half done. Polt throws caution to the wind and goes straight for the fourth with a group of bio and medivacs while another group clears out the path to the other logical fourth location. Every single mine is held back until a critical mass of 17 mines is achieved. Once that happens, Polt moves out with his entire army to establish a strong location near the 2nd fourth base location of Jaedong: his mine having been killed. This is a similar move to the first game where Polt moved out with seven mines to force a large engagement and trade away gas units.

As +3/+3 gets closer, we see Polt establish his rally near the fourth of Jaedong. History is about to repeat itself. When +3/+3 is in play for Polt, he kills the fourth of Jaedong and seals the deal yet again.

Polt vs Hyun on Akilon Wastes

from MLG Anaheim Grand Finals. Set 1: Roach Bane and Late Game Sky Terran

Vod Polt vs Hyun on Akilon Wastes Set 1. From MLG Anaheim Grand Finals.
http://s3.majorleaguegaming.com/anaheim2013replays/champ1.zip (This link contains replays for the series that this game was a part of.)

Polt is going to be using the exact same game plan. We will see the opening used in its most textbook fashion with no risky alterations. This game will showcase how to deal with a very new style of Zerg play: roach/bane macro.

Polt Scouts More Than 100 Gas Mined but Less Than Three drones Mining the Extra Gas
What does this mean? The Zerg wants to either spend gas on Lair at around 6:00 or to take a third and spend gas on some hatch level tech building as the third base completes.

How does Polt react? Polt checks for a third as soon as possible. Hyun had used zergling aggression to delay the scout timing but Polt still scouts by around the 7:00 minute mark. Upon seeing the third base he can be sure that it is not a fast lair play. Polt will therefore not be doing the normal hellion/reaper timing since roaches or banes are likely.

Polt Sees Roaches With his Hellion/Reaper Force
What does this mean? The Zerg is either going for a roach based all-in on three bases or is going for the roach/bane macro style.

How does Polt react? Polt keeps his distance from the roaches but aggressively pushes back creep whenever the roaches try to move out. By doing this, Polt is able to force the Zerg to show the amount of units that he has actually made. Polt never sees more than seven roaches at this time and, in fact, sees that drones are being made and sent to the third. At that time, he sacrifices the force in order to try to do some damage to the macro of Hyun, force some more units, and get a scout on the Zerg. He sees that Hyun has started a tech to lair and still only has seven roaches. Polt should feel secure that this is a move macro style roach play rather than all-in. If he was still not sure, at 10:20 his viking spots the fourth base of Hyun starting which should completely confirm his intentions to macro.

Polt puts Hyun on a Roach Opening into Macro Play
What does this mean? The Zerg is not going to be trying to overwhelm the Terran with three hatcheries of roaches: Polt has time to build up. The Zerg will be focusing on a roach style macro play or transitioning into muta/ling/bling play. Polt needs to spot additional roach production or find the first mutas in order to confirm this.

How does Polt react? Polt sends out the marauder drop. He did not do the mine drop due to the scouted extra gas mined and the possible all-in or fast tech play to lair suggested. Polt's build order and macro continue on as if it was a standard game vs ling/bling/muta.

Polt is aggressive with his +1/+1 timing. His marauder drop returns for when upgrades are ready to be in effect and he moves out with a decent sized bio/medivac force. He pressures the now completed fourth he had previously spotted and gets his first real confirmation of the unit composition of the Zerg.

Hyun's Roach/Bane Composition is Revealed to Polt
What does this mean? Polt should now know that he will not be winning with a +3/+3 timing on the Zerg's fourth after trading units throughout the mid game. Roach based armies are very good in the mid game and will trade in a much more cost effective way than muta/ling/bane. Roach based armies, however, do not trade well vs large forces at a well defended position. Polt knows, therefore, that he must macro up a large force and use it to defend enough bases to transition to the mid game. Once there, he can create an army that is able to beat, cost-effectively, any hive tech army that Zerg can make.

How does Polt react? Polt uses his +1/+1 bio/medivac force to keep the enemy back. He loads up into the medivacs when the enemy army trys to kill it and threatens a drop at both the fourth and main in order to force Hyun to pull back. This bio drop pulls back to the side of the map after doing no damage. Behind this, Polt is throwing down a fourth command center followed by barracks six through eight. Polt pushes out before +2/+2 is done with a very large bio mine force (nine total mines). He forces a large engagement with this force off of creep. The two medivac drop that had previously faked aggression and pulled back moves into the Zerg main at the same time. Polt picks off a queen and then retreats. This force is now used to cover the left side of the map bases for the remainder of the game. Polt began two additional command centers behind this aggression.

Polt now begins to create a mine field on his side of the map that can be used to protect rallied forces and most of his bases. He continues to poke forward with bio/medivac but quickly lifts and retreats to the mines at the first sign of a bad engagement. He lands his fourth command center and begins the planetary fortress upgrade. He also begins to add additional command centers (also destined to become PFs) to support his mine field.

Hyun Pushes a Strong Roach Attack into Polt's Defenses and Begins to Transition into Infestors
What does this mean? This means that Hyun is no longer going to be focusing on roaches. Roaches are horribly supply in-efficient and are one of the worst units in a max supply fight. The larger than normal gas bank that Hyun has built up during the mid game will allow an easier transition to hive tech.

How does Polt react? Polt holds the attack and then counter pushes. Polt wants to see what the the next move will be for Hyun. Behind this, Polt takes gases six, seven, and eight. Polt confirms an infestor play follow up. He now knows to expect -- in about four to eight minutes -- a large hive army. He throws down two starports shortly after the additional gas completes.

As +3/+3 finishes, Polt sends two medivacs with bio to the right side of the map. He now has one group of bio/medivac on each side of the map as well as his defensive line. Each of the groups on the flanks are two to three medivacs strong and able to fill each medivac with bio. Both groups aggressively assert themselves in their respective locations. The group on the left side pushes out one or two units and the group on the right side beings to clear some creep near the Zerg's fifth. The group on the left continues down towards the middle of the map clearing some creep in the middle. Each group has the goal to contest map control and each group retreats to the nearest safe point when the Zerg shows up. While these forces are serving the key function of map control, they do not appear to be vital to Polt's end game composition as they do both end up dying. Do note that Polt quickly replaces either force whenever they die.

Polt adds more defenses in the form of mines and planetary fortresses while adding a fusion core and another starport. His now idle engineering bays find additional value in the building armor and range upgrades. Every starport beyond the very first has been given a tech lab as it finishes and raven production starts when possible. Polt does take a fifth base but does not saturate it with SCVs. He sends enough SCVs to it to mine gas and drops any mules he desires at this base. This base is very obviously a risk and it will pay off best by giving gas and not allowing the Zerg easy SCV kills. This base is quickly denied by a zergling/baneling/infestor force. With so few workers there, it can be argued that the base was a poor trade for Hyun. Aggression with the entire Zerg army like this is met by Polt sending in the bio/medivac force, on the opposite side of the map, to hurt or even kill a base of the Zerg's.

Once Polt has five ravens, he begins the production of battle cruisers. Polt retakes his fifth and again focuses only on gas collection there. Polt ensures that he does have a small viking force to help vs any spire units but none are coming. Hyun's large hive attack finally arrives and almost breaks Polt. The defensive mine field and seeker missiles from the raven fleet thin out the force. The battle cruisers and bio are able to clean it up.

Polt Breaks a Hive Army Attack of Hyun
What does this mean? Polt is beginning to trade cost effectively vs Hyun and Hyun has a very small window left to win the game. He needs to break Polt with the next wave of units or be in a very bad position.

How does Polt react? Polt does not move out. Polt keeps adding ravens and battle cruisers and waits for the next attack. I believe that he would also move out at max but Hyun, being a top level player, knows that the larger Polt gets the harder it is to break. Hyun attacks again and loses his second hive army.

Polt moves out after this attack with around 170 food of sky terran and bio. He cleans up slowly but surely. Hyun leaves the game a few minutes later.

Opening and Build Orders


Polt's FE 1/1/1 Opening into 3 Command Centers

10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
12 Gas
15 Orbital Command
16 Supply Depot
17 Reaper
19 Command Center (Low Ground)
21 Factory
22 Reactor on Barracks (Swap to Factory)
25 Bunker and 1 Marine
30 Starport (Viking)
32 Gas and Tech Lab on Barracks
54 Stim (after two marauders and followed by Combat Shields when done)
@6 Hellions, begin Mine Production
Stop marauder production at four
@8:30- Command Center (Orbital Command ASAP)

Polt's CC Rax Gas FE 1/1/1 Opening into 3 Command Centers

10 Supply
14 Command center (high ground wall off)
15 Barracks
16 Gas
17 Send scouting SCV
18 Marine (two total before reactor)
19 Orbital Command x2
20 Bunker
21 Factory
22 Reactor
25 Gas
28 Starport
Stim
Marauder production (goal of 4)
Command Center (Orbital command ASAP)

Polt's 4M Transition

2x Barracks* (Reactor When Done) (Reactor Starport When Reactoring these Barracks)
2x Engineering Bays* (Constant Upgrades once done)
2x Gas
@50% Barracks Completion- 2x Barracks (Reactor When Done)
@Orbital Command Done- Float to 3rd and add 2x Bunkers to Cover Main Path
ASAP: Supply Depot Wall at 3rd Base
@~12:00- 2x Bunkers, Factory (Tech Lab and Mine Upgrade ASAP) and 3x Barracks
ASAP: Sensor Tower, Bunker, and 1 Gas at 3rd Base
@+1/+1 done: +2/+2
@+2/+2 done: +3/+3

*When going CC first, Polt goes for the engineering bays before the barracks. I would suggest, however, going barracks first. Both ways are viable and players should explore both paths.

That's how we play 4M in 'Murica. Boo-ya.

Conclusion and Thanks


As always, I want to thank the TL Strat team for all their help in making this guide. I want, also, to thank everyone that has read and posted in the '4M: A Guide to Modern TvZ' thread. I read every post and a lot of what I focused on in this guide was to round out what I missed in the last one.

I would like to personally thank Cooler Master Storm: thank you for sponsoring Polt. I was searching through VODs looking for inspiration for another article when I saw Polt lose an army in a weird way and then win the game shortly afterward. I was so confused and the comments in the YouTube thread made me think others were as well. It took me several times watching through the VOD of Polt's game on Neo Planet S vs Jaedong to understand the depth of the genius of Polt. I take pride in my CM Storm tower and the fact that even a very small percent of the money I spent on it went on to support him as he plays this wonderful game.

Lastly, I want to thank Polt. God damn, you are the one true American hope. GG and GL.

[image loading] Replay Pack: The American Way

Brought to you by the TL Strategy Team
Writer: VaderSeven
Graphics: Naganis, nicopower5000
Liquipedia Support: NovemberstOrm
Editors: Hayl_Storm, monk, wo1fwood, ZeromuS
Additional Peer Review: x5.PiG, TheDwf
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monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
October 21 2013 16:05 GMT
#2
Reserved
Moderator
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
October 21 2013 16:06 GMT
#3
4M too stronk
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
sil0r
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany43 Posts
October 21 2013 16:15 GMT
#4
Really looking forward to give it a read.
The early third hatches the drone
Sufinsil
Profile Joined January 2011
United States760 Posts
October 21 2013 16:17 GMT
#5
I like how Polt does not play greedy with getting a fast 3rd CC. I guess that is why we never see a 8:30-9:00 roach bane bust.

I think we might need to see some different play out of zerg. Quicker 3/3? Sack 4th while muta shut down production? taking out reactors is a quick way to slow down production. But we rarely saw it happen. I think some reactors in construction were destroyed but that was it most of the games.

But as we say Polt is aggressive and forces you to fight for map control. He even said after winning if Mutas got in his production he would be in trouble. I felt Hyun flying across the map multiple times his Muta were effectively doing nothing for a lot of game time.
kinsky
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany368 Posts
October 21 2013 16:42 GMT
#6
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! GOOD BUNCH OF GUYS!!!
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
October 21 2013 16:56 GMT
#7
THE AMERICAN WAY.

Love it.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
October 21 2013 17:03 GMT
#8
Needs more protoss guides D:

Great writeup as always, TL strategy with another quality article.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 17:06:55
October 21 2013 17:04 GMT
#9
Now I can work full time on my TvP article! Hope you guys enjoy what we did with this one!

On October 22 2013 02:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Needs more protoss guides D:

Great writeup as always, TL strategy with another quality article.


The fact the this was posted means that I have started to achieve success in my war of terran article count vs protoss article count.

boo-yA
Koromon
Profile Joined May 2012
United States304 Posts
October 21 2013 17:05 GMT
#10
Maybe I'm wrong but I think Polt's build is slightly different now?

It's still 12rax/12gas OB CC reactor then SD?

Not 100% sure about the order of the last three, but just pretty sure the CC now comes down before the SD.

But then again this is his last season's run as opposed to this season's?
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 17:27:56
October 21 2013 17:20 GMT
#11
On October 22 2013 02:05 Koromon wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong but I think Polt's build is slightly different now?

It's still 12rax/12gas OB CC reactor then SD?

Not 100% sure about the order of the last three, but just pretty sure the CC now comes down before the SD.

But then again this is his last season's run as opposed to this season's?


You are correct. Polt had modified his opening. I will include this in a FAQ that will be added where monk has the reserved post.

The new fine tuned opening is:

10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
12 Refinery
15 Orbital Command
15 Reaper (make one)
17 Command Center
18 Reactor
18 Supply Depot
20 Factory
21 Marine and Reaper
@Factory done- Swap factory onto the reactor

From there the build continues as normal.

For those that want to see where we got the graphics from:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Reproduced with permission of course.

HomeWorld
Profile Joined December 2011
Romania903 Posts
October 21 2013 17:31 GMT
#12
Zergs going full NA against Polt, well said. Keep in mind that Polt couldn't practice that much since he was busy with midterms.
plogamer
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada3132 Posts
October 21 2013 17:39 GMT
#13
Polt shifting the meta all by himself.
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
October 21 2013 18:13 GMT
#14
Someone needs to do a TvP Polt style, he does it better than anyone else out there.
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
October 21 2013 18:16 GMT
#15
Polt so baller
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 21 2013 18:17 GMT
#16
Polt always have some of the most logical and good all around builds.
Copying Polt's build is a really good option for someone laddering at the Master / low GrandMaster level. It give you all the tools to start working on real RTS skill : map control, engagements and positioning.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8240 Posts
October 21 2013 18:23 GMT
#17
This detailed strategy article just made all Zergs cry. God bless Polt and TL.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
October 21 2013 18:30 GMT
#18
On October 22 2013 03:17 Noocta wrote:
Polt always have some of the most logical and good all around builds.
Copying Polt's build is a really good option for someone laddering at the Master / low GrandMaster level. It give you all the tools to start working on real RTS skill : map control, engagements and positioning.


It's more than copying the build, this strategy just carries so much in it its amazing. While editing the piece I was blown away at how much depth there is to Plots TvZ. Honestly, its this kind of message and detail that we need to get across more to really show just how beautiful SC2 is and how beautiful it can be.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
October 21 2013 19:21 GMT
#19
Siiiick guide gonna try out Polts style hes so smart!
And looking forward to your TvP guide cant wait!
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 19:34:09
October 21 2013 19:33 GMT
#20
I'd love to see some casters reference that strat guide in future casts

now, on to defending against that style!
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
October 21 2013 19:38 GMT
#21
Thank you very much for this great guide. SC2 can really be beautiful if you let players like Polt spend some time at a computer :o
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
October 21 2013 20:01 GMT
#22
yayyyyyy

amazing write up
<3
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
October 21 2013 20:04 GMT
#23
what a bad guide, still not updated to the new units in StarcraftII... What about MULEs, you forgot them again!! The meta is 5M right now, get your shit together.
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
October 21 2013 20:25 GMT
#24
On October 22 2013 05:04 graNite wrote:
what a bad guide, still not updated to the new units in StarcraftII... What about MULEs, you forgot them again!! The meta is 5M right now, get your shit together.

Its actually 7m, you forgot the manner mule dropped after you wipe the map with zerg..which is a totally different unit than the standard mule and well worth two m's.
Liquid Fighting
Darthsanta13
Profile Joined July 2011
United States564 Posts
October 21 2013 20:25 GMT
#25
I'm just a protoss but this is still awesome. I love in depth analysis like this. I'll have to read it when I get home.
Jazzman88
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada2228 Posts
October 21 2013 21:00 GMT
#26
vaderseven, you have written some truly outstanding guides of late. I look forward to your dissection of modern TvP's Reaper FE into 2 Barracks (please? :D).

Well worth the read and the study.
Sketch123
Profile Joined October 2013
Russian Federation11 Posts
October 21 2013 21:32 GMT
#27
I was searching through VODs looking for inspiration for another article when I saw Polt lose an army in a weird way and then win the game shortly afterward.

Can we have a link please?
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
October 21 2013 21:44 GMT
#28
damn, what a guide. I've only read through the Belshir Vestige game, but it's fascinating. Reading stuff like this shows the depth of SC2 and makes it more exciting!
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
October 21 2013 21:51 GMT
#29
Awesome guide! Thanks for this contribution. You make TL.Net better :D
TL+ Member
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
October 21 2013 21:54 GMT
#30
On October 22 2013 06:32 Sketch123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
I was searching through VODs looking for inspiration for another article when I saw Polt lose an army in a weird way and then win the game shortly afterward.

Can we have a link please?


It is not exactly the same story, but be amazed by Polt : he loses his whole fucking economy, faces DRG who has a huge bank, and makes a comeback out of thin air :

DYEAlabaster
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada1009 Posts
October 21 2013 22:25 GMT
#31
Worth noting that Polt has exceptional micro as well. While he doesn't always micro, when he does, it's stupid good. Big part of the reason why he wins.
Suichoy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada397 Posts
October 21 2013 22:26 GMT
#32
AWESOME guide, thank you. I've been very curious about Polt's TvZ play after watching his interview with Thorin.
Baroninthetree
Profile Joined August 2012
United States473 Posts
October 21 2013 22:46 GMT
#33
This is sick analysis.
But I bet polt won't like it.
Lucky that's these kind of game sensing is hard if not impossible to learn
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
October 21 2013 22:50 GMT
#34
Map control, decision making and positioning are traits that have defined many of the best SC2 players. Polt is very similar to Taeja in his general style I think (although not necessarily in TvZ).
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
October 21 2013 23:48 GMT
#35
Woah what a massive write up good job!
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14460 Posts
October 21 2013 23:56 GMT
#36
Nice guide ! Let's go for another translation.
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 22 2013 00:57 GMT
#37
On October 22 2013 06:32 Sketch123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
I was searching through VODs looking for inspiration for another article when I saw Polt lose an army in a weird way and then win the game shortly afterward.

Can we have a link please?


I believe I was referring to the game vs jeadong on neo planet when I wrote that.
Crugio
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia45 Posts
October 22 2013 01:27 GMT
#38
Are there any weaknesses in this style that Zerg can exploit?
I'm in a world of hurt!
KeyHunt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States218 Posts
October 22 2013 01:45 GMT
#39
Great article. But, you really should try to source Nicolas Chaussois for the banner; considering he is the one that made the drawing in the banner.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 22 2013 02:31 GMT
#40
On October 22 2013 10:45 KeyHunt wrote:
Great article. But, you really should try to source Nicolas Chaussois for the banner; considering he is the one that made the drawing in the banner.


Look at the top and bottom of the article. We would never have posted it without permission or credit.
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8240 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 03:14:59
October 22 2013 03:11 GMT
#41
On October 22 2013 06:54 fezvez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 06:32 Sketch123 wrote:
I was searching through VODs looking for inspiration for another article when I saw Polt lose an army in a weird way and then win the game shortly afterward.

Can we have a link please?


It is not exactly the same story, but be amazed by Polt : he loses his whole fucking economy, faces DRG who has a huge bank, and makes a comeback out of thin air :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q3lG_g_9ME&t=12m30s

Who is casting with TB? He sounds familiar.. Wolfe?
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
October 22 2013 03:19 GMT
#42
On October 22 2013 12:11 geokilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 06:54 fezvez wrote:
On October 22 2013 06:32 Sketch123 wrote:
I was searching through VODs looking for inspiration for another article when I saw Polt lose an army in a weird way and then win the game shortly afterward.

Can we have a link please?


It is not exactly the same story, but be amazed by Polt : he loses his whole fucking economy, faces DRG who has a huge bank, and makes a comeback out of thin air :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q3lG_g_9ME&t=12m30s

Who is casting with TB? He sounds familiar.. Wolfe?


Yep.
Someone call down the Thunder?
Strangways
Profile Joined October 2013
United States13 Posts
October 22 2013 03:40 GMT
#43
"It is not exactly the same story, but be amazed by Polt : he loses his whole fucking economy, faces DRG who has a huge bank, and makes a comeback out of thin air : "

Along similar lines, I watch Polt's games, compare them to how I play, and think that this sort of guide can basically be summed up as:

1) Polt is awesome
2) You, on the other hand, suck at Starcraft
3) That is all
[CCSRAM] BaoQuan
Profile Joined August 2013
United States96 Posts
October 22 2013 04:30 GMT
#44
In most of the WCS games, Polt seemed to be behind, but made amazing comebacks each time.
Jazzman88
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada2228 Posts
October 22 2013 04:53 GMT
#45
On October 22 2013 13:30 [CCSRAM] BaoQuan wrote:
In most of the WCS games, Polt seemed to be behind, but made amazing comebacks each time.


This is actually a quantum quirk of the universe, resulting in the following paradox:

If Polt is behind, he's actually ahead. The only way to beat Polt is to put yourself so behind that he's behind, which then puts him ahead and... wait, shit.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
October 22 2013 05:12 GMT
#46
On October 22 2013 12:40 Strangways wrote:
"It is not exactly the same story, but be amazed by Polt : he loses his whole fucking economy, faces DRG who has a huge bank, and makes a comeback out of thin air : "

Along similar lines, I watch Polt's games, compare them to how I play, and think that this sort of guide can basically be summed up as:

1) Polt is awesome
2) You, on the other hand, suck at Starcraft
3) That is all


You didn't read the whole thing did you? Its not that polt is good and everyone else is bad, its that his ability to create space on the map and control it is what wins. If you learn how to do even a portion of what he does, and have a gameplan like he does, you will win much much more.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
wensulin93
Profile Joined September 2013
China4 Posts
October 22 2013 06:54 GMT
#47
lol,POLT change to be a American,so does Jaedong? America IMBA
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
October 22 2013 07:22 GMT
#48
Polt is such a beast...This guide is incredible.

Much thanks.

Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4730 Posts
October 22 2013 07:48 GMT
#49
I am so detached from the scene....My first thought was "Why would TL have an article about 4M (meaning Man,Machine,Material, Method), it doesnt make sense". Then it came to me, its something about sc2....but what...i couldnt grasp it, honestly. Sad times.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Juice!
Profile Joined January 2011
Belgium295 Posts
October 22 2013 07:51 GMT
#50
It's a great guide, don't get me wrong. But it feels funny when you say "the american way' when he is korean ..
Second place is just a fancy term for loser
xenoZhang
Profile Joined July 2012
China142 Posts
October 22 2013 07:58 GMT
#51
looking forward for your TVP guide!
great work
toss is op is op is op ( ̄へ ̄) || Slayers MMA / BOXER / NESTEA / PARTING / DRG / F91 / COMM
plogamer
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada3132 Posts
October 22 2013 08:18 GMT
#52
On October 22 2013 16:51 Juice! wrote:
It's a great guide, don't get me wrong. But it feels funny when you say "the american way' when he is korean ..


Americans decided to adopt Polt as their new supreme leader <3
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
October 22 2013 08:23 GMT
#53
Nice guide, but somehow it feels as if the strategy is not feasible for me. What is the minimum amount of apm needed for this? ^^"
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1895 Posts
October 22 2013 08:32 GMT
#54
On October 22 2013 02:04 vaderseven wrote:
Now I can work full time on my TvP article! Hope you guys enjoy what we did with this one!

Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 02:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Needs more protoss guides D:

Great writeup as always, TL strategy with another quality article.


The fact the this was posted means that I have started to achieve success in my war of terran article count vs protoss article count.

boo-yA


Very nice, indeed! Also I'm looking forward to some TvP guide to deal with those pesky deathballs better
... einmal mit Profis spielen!
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
October 22 2013 09:19 GMT
#55
On October 22 2013 05:25 Darthsanta13 wrote:
I'm just a protoss but this is still awesome. I love in depth analysis like this. I'll have to read it when I get home.



offtopic: I just read "I'm just a protoss.." with queen's bohemian rhapsody melody in my mind.. :D
AsaZZang
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany30 Posts
October 22 2013 10:55 GMT
#56
but but but.... Polt is from Germany ....
iLoVeLiquidHerO <3
Muffloe
Profile Joined December 2012
Sweden6061 Posts
October 22 2013 11:30 GMT
#57
On October 22 2013 19:55 AsaZZang wrote:
but but but.... Polt is from Germany ....


I thought that was Mvp
jeri
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany335 Posts
October 22 2013 11:30 GMT
#58
On October 22 2013 03:13 Chaggi wrote:
Someone needs to do a TvP Polt style, he does it better than anyone else out there.


but he lost to first 2x at last wcs finals with like zero chances. polts tvp vs top tosses is very bad imho...
"The voices are back. Excellent." Dexter Morgan
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
October 22 2013 12:04 GMT
#59
On October 22 2013 20:30 jeri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 03:13 Chaggi wrote:
Someone needs to do a TvP Polt style, he does it better than anyone else out there.


but he lost to first 2x at last wcs finals with like zero chances. polts tvp vs top tosses is very bad imho...


Polt has a unique style of TvP of basically multipronged hit squads. Compared to what other Terran's do which is mostly posturing, Polt does a lot of doom drops that is interesting to see and much more fun to play. And really, one series doesn't really mean that much in the grand scheme of things. He's been really damn good in every matchup for the last few months.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
October 22 2013 12:16 GMT
#60
On October 22 2013 21:04 Chaggi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 20:30 jeri wrote:
On October 22 2013 03:13 Chaggi wrote:
Someone needs to do a TvP Polt style, he does it better than anyone else out there.


but he lost to first 2x at last wcs finals with like zero chances. polts tvp vs top tosses is very bad imho...


Polt has a unique style of TvP of basically multipronged hit squads. Compared to what other Terran's do which is mostly posturing, Polt does a lot of doom drops that is interesting to see and much more fun to play. And really, one series doesn't really mean that much in the grand scheme of things. He's been really damn good in every matchup for the last few months.


Actually, I think it is just a stylist match up issue vs First. First is really good in terms of splitting his army and defending vs multi pronged attacks. His weakest seems to be positioning for big engagement. Thus First is bad vs SCV pulls and that is why First has been losing a lot of TvPs recently.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 22 2013 13:39 GMT
#61
Polt is one of the most successful terrans of all time and has top 4 performance in every matchup. On top of that his performance in hots places him as being in top form now even though he started winning championships in like 2011.

To that apm question: a minimum am is hard stat to just pull out and declare. I would say you need the ability to macro and micro one force and three bases. Polt is not a high apm play especially by the Korean terran standard. If I had to guess I would say 140 would be more than enough to do the entire game plan assuming it's spent right. Maybe even 110.
ShnAndrei
Profile Joined March 2011
Romania164 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 14:58:48
October 22 2013 14:55 GMT
#62
Cool, now make another one for Polt vs Byul. xD

Jk,jk... It took me ~2 hours to read through this guide (not a native English speaker though). But I can imagine how much it took you to write it!

It is extremely detailed. So detailed, that I'd almost compare it to the work of a literary critic on a piece of literature. What do I mean by this is that at some points I am not even sure if Polt really had in mind the intentions you credit him with, or if you have found such smart intentions for that action which not even Polt thought about. I bet Polt read this and thought "wow, I didn't know I was that smart!"

With that said, I've learned a few interesting strategy points by reading this guide, which makes 4M easier for me to wrap my hands around. So ty for that and for your hard work. You needn't be that thorough on your next guides though. We are excited even for smaller guides.
Liman
Profile Joined July 2012
Serbia681 Posts
October 22 2013 15:18 GMT
#63
Wow this is the most detailed analysis i have ever seen.
Great job !
Freelancer veteran
samwise1993
Profile Joined June 2013
15 Posts
October 22 2013 15:25 GMT
#64
better do a guide about tvp than tvz . still good work tho
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 16:05:03
October 22 2013 15:50 GMT
#65
It literally makes me sick to my stomach to see the American Way and then Polt's name listed. Is this some kind of defense of the fact regions aren't locked in WCS? Polt represents the Korean Way.

From Liquidpedia:

Choi "Polt" Seong Hun is a Terran player from South Korea, who is currently playing for CMStorm.

Name: 최성훈
Romanized Name: Choi Seong Hun
Birth: July 2, 1988 (age 25)
Country: South Korea
Race: Terran


And from this interview from Polt himself:

Polt: For Korean fans, there is no idea like a Korean player is representing Korea because there are so many Korean players in the winners bracket. On the other hand, American fans want a player who is representing their country, so I’ll be happy if USA fans think I can do that. The fact I’m living in Texas right now affected my interaction so much. I don’t think I am a representative of the USA but I’ll be glad if USA fans cheer for me and think like that.

He doesn't represent America, or the American way, and even admits that he doesn't represent America (and don't give me crap that America ≠ US, there is a big American flag behind the picture)! He represents Korea and will be serving his mandatory military service there.

If there was an American champion, who actually lived and was a citizen of some country in America (and didn't just come here for school), I'd still watch WCS... but that throne is currently filled by an impostor from another country.
FatCat_13
Profile Joined July 2013
Russian Federation117 Posts
October 22 2013 16:12 GMT
#66
BronzeKnee,
i think you misinterpreted his words. If he said he's US representative people would think he's rather cocky and arrogant. But have you ever noticed him behaving that way?

I believe people in USA like him for he lives in America, he speaks English and he's wide open to American culture which is way way different from Korean one.
Are you human? being...
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
October 22 2013 16:28 GMT
#67
On October 23 2013 00:50 BronzeKnee wrote:
It literally makes me sick to my stomach to see the American Way and then Polt's name listed. Is this some kind of defense of the fact regions aren't locked in WCS? Polt represents the Korean Way.

From Liquidpedia:

Choi "Polt" Seong Hun is a Terran player from South Korea, who is currently playing for CMStorm.

Name: 최성훈
Romanized Name: Choi Seong Hun
Birth: July 2, 1988 (age 25)
Country: South Korea
Race: Terran


And from this interview from Polt himself:

Polt: For Korean fans, there is no idea like a Korean player is representing Korea because there are so many Korean players in the winners bracket. On the other hand, American fans want a player who is representing their country, so I’ll be happy if USA fans think I can do that. The fact I’m living in Texas right now affected my interaction so much. I don’t think I am a representative of the USA but I’ll be glad if USA fans cheer for me and think like that.

He doesn't represent America, or the American way, and even admits that he doesn't represent America (and don't give me crap that America ≠ US, there is a big American flag behind the picture)! He represents Korea and will be serving his mandatory military service there.

If there was an American champion, who actually lived and was a citizen of some country in America (and didn't just come here for school), I'd still watch WCS... but that throne is currently filled by an impostor from another country.

dude, chill out.
TL+ Member
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 17:15:35
October 22 2013 17:03 GMT
#68
On October 23 2013 01:12 FatCat_13 wrote:
BronzeKnee,
i think you misinterpreted his words. If he said he's US representative people would think he's rather cocky and arrogant. But have you ever noticed him behaving that way?

I believe people in USA like him for he lives in America, he speaks English and he's wide open to American culture which is way way different from Korean one.


It isn't Polt I have an issue with, it is this articles portrayal of him. Polt is the champion of WCS America. But he isn't an American champion. Key difference. He doesn't represent America, he represents WCS America, which is a meaningless entity because regions aren't locked.

Portraying him as representative of the American way is wrong. He is at best, an impostor. There are certain things I just don't think you should mock. The American way is one of them. It wouldn't be in good taste if an article about a Japanese player beating a Korean had a flag of the rising sun in the background, and this isn't in good taste either.

But I'm just sitting in a corner crying, missing Idra really...
rikter
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 17:54:28
October 22 2013 17:53 GMT
#69
On October 22 2013 22:39 vaderseven wrote:
Polt is one of the most successful terrans of all time and has top 4 performance in every matchup. On top of that his performance in hots places him as being in top form now even though he started winning championships in like 2011.

To that apm question: a minimum am is hard stat to just pull out and declare. I would say you need the ability to macro and micro one force and three bases. Polt is not a high apm play especially by the Korean terran standard. If I had to guess I would say 140 would be more than enough to do the entire game plan assuming it's spent right. Maybe even 110.



Part of the problem when assessing APM is considering average when the real issue is max. For a long time I hovered around 70-75apm average, but that number doubled or tripled during fights, and was dragged down by the early game, where I chose not to spam. People called me out for it, wondering how I could beat them when my average APM was half theirs...its simple: when I actually needed to be up at around 200, I was and when I didnt need to be there, I wasn't. Average alone isn't enough.

You can do a style like this with prolly the 100 or so average that vader mentioned, if its spent right, but your potential max apm needs to be way higher. There are plenty of spots where you can be low APM, but there are others where it is super critical that you be able to hit the higher gears or you will straight die.

Great guide btw, really good read.
No one wants a box of shit, even if it is for Christmas.
Doc Brawler
Profile Joined November 2011
United States260 Posts
October 22 2013 17:55 GMT
#70
On October 22 2013 18:19 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 05:25 Darthsanta13 wrote:
I'm just a protoss but this is still awesome. I love in depth analysis like this. I'll have to read it when I get home.



offtopic: I just read "I'm just a protoss.." with queen's bohemian rhapsody melody in my mind.. :D


I'm just a protoss, nobody loves me...
I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds
Doc Brawler
Profile Joined November 2011
United States260 Posts
October 22 2013 18:09 GMT
#71
OK BronzeKnee I am assuming you are being serious and not just joking so I'll try to explain the USA thing. It's called irony. The whole USA chants when Polt plays is a big JOKE. Giving MVP a German name is a JOKE. Its ironic because you normally would not expect the representatives from europe and america to be two korean kids.
That being said, its grown a bit bigger than having a winner from your region/country to cheer for. It's kind of represents how we accepted what WCS quickly turned into.
In cases like Polt, Jaedong, and Forgg, it makes them even easier to rally behind, because they either speak the language or live in a foreign country.
I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds
Nimix
Profile Joined October 2011
France1809 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 18:43:46
October 22 2013 18:43 GMT
#72
On October 22 2013 22:39 vaderseven wrote:
Polt is one of the most successful terrans of all time and has top 4 performance in every matchup. On top of that his performance in hots places him as being in top form now even though he started winning championships in like 2011.

To that apm question: a minimum am is hard stat to just pull out and declare. I would say you need the ability to macro and micro one force and three bases. Polt is not a high apm play especially by the Korean terran standard. If I had to guess I would say 140 would be more than enough to do the entire game plan assuming it's spent right. Maybe even 110.


From the polt replays I checked, he still had 150/180 sc2gears EAPM depending on games and matchups, which is a bit lower than say innovation or other top koreans but still pretty high. So he's still in the average. It's enough to do everything you need to, even if as pointed in the OP his mechanics are sub par compared to others, and he has to make up for that by being a genius in other aspects.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 22 2013 19:56 GMT
#73
I feel like I've died and gone to Broodwar.

Excellent analysis!
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 22 2013 20:02 GMT
#74
Ok bronze knee you can't take a joke we get it.

In all seriousness, I never once talk about him be American and not korean and title was obvious satire or irony. Keep the discussion on topic about the style which was used by a player to win WCS AM two times.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 22 2013 20:03 GMT
#75
On October 23 2013 03:43 Nimix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2013 22:39 vaderseven wrote:
Polt is one of the most successful terrans of all time and has top 4 performance in every matchup. On top of that his performance in hots places him as being in top form now even though he started winning championships in like 2011.

To that apm question: a minimum am is hard stat to just pull out and declare. I would say you need the ability to macro and micro one force and three bases. Polt is not a high apm play especially by the Korean terran standard. If I had to guess I would say 140 would be more than enough to do the entire game plan assuming it's spent right. Maybe even 110.


From the polt replays I checked, he still had 150/180 sc2gears EAPM depending on games and matchups, which is a bit lower than say innovation or other top koreans but still pretty high. So he's still in the average. It's enough to do everything you need to, even if as pointed in the OP his mechanics are sub par compared to others, and he has to make up for that by being a genius in other aspects.


Correct. I still think an apm of the values I stated would be enough to attempt executing this style.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 22 2013 20:04 GMT
#76
On October 22 2013 23:55 ShnAndrei wrote:
Cool, now make another one for Polt vs Byul. xD

Jk,jk... It took me ~2 hours to read through this guide (not a native English speaker though). But I can imagine how much it took you to write it!

It is extremely detailed. So detailed, that I'd almost compare it to the work of a literary critic on a piece of literature. What do I mean by this is that at some points I am not even sure if Polt really had in mind the intentions you credit him with, or if you have found such smart intentions for that action which not even Polt thought about. I bet Polt read this and thought "wow, I didn't know I was that smart!"

With that said, I've learned a few interesting strategy points by reading this guide, which makes 4M easier for me to wrap my hands around. So ty for that and for your hard work. You needn't be that thorough on your next guides though. We are excited even for smaller guides.


I wondered the same for awhile but if you watch a large number of the games where he uses this style you begin to see the things he sees and how he reacts and the timings he focuses on for both macro and positioning. I feel confident that the vast majority of what I went over is correct.
skyflyfish
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada499 Posts
October 22 2013 20:19 GMT
#77
good read , thanks for the analysis
as1
Zeon0
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria2995 Posts
October 22 2013 20:35 GMT
#78
why would you help Terrans? QQ :D
Hater of MKP since GSL Open Season 2 | Fanboy of: NesTea Stephano IdrA DIMAGA MorroW ret DongRaeGu Snute SaSe Mvp ThorZaIN DeMusliM
TaishiCi
Profile Joined September 2013
Korea (South)211 Posts
October 22 2013 21:30 GMT
#79
Great read! Thanks for some excellent observations.

I feel like extreme mechanical Zergs like DRG would do well against this style.
It is doubtful that Polt's style would have had the same success at GSL.
Like Taeja I think Polt is geared too much on scatter-shot practice that makes them very peaky.
I hope that zergs start mixing it up more with some aggression again.
Ok, we get it you can keep up with the terrans mechanically in TvZ now.
Doesn't mean you can't mix in different aggression to throw the opponents off.
Dae Han Min Gook Man Sae!!!
DuneBug
Profile Joined April 2010
United States668 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 21:53:51
October 22 2013 21:52 GMT
#80
I feel like this guide is mostly stating the obvious... Start a parade after your 3rd base, trade units with the zerg to set up an upgrade advantage. Exploit the upgrade advantage. How is this different from most 4m's i've seen. That pressure at the 4th base on Belshir looked almost identical to ZvT's I was seeing a month ago. Zerg not having enough creep to push terran away, zerg holds until he has a bad engagement and then terran wins.

Conversely, if Terran has a bad engagement, Zerg probably rallies and pushes Terran back far off creep, giving him more map control and room to pressure the possible terran 4th. My opinion is this is not really different from other styles except being safe. Terran starts a parade and it comes down to better engagements. And for all the talk about Polt's subpar micro and macro... When it mattered, he had better engagements than JD, which built enough momentum for him to win.

I think this is proven by the army/drone counts you give:
At the 16:05 game time mark we can see that Polt has 44 SCVs and that Jaedong has 80 drones. Polt has a total of 125 food and Jaedong has a total of 172 food. In total, the army sizes of the two players is only 11 in favor of Jaedong.

At the 17:16 mark, Jaedong has 85 workers and 146 food compared to Polt's 44 workers and 108 food. That is a difference of 3 army supply favoring Polt.


A few minutes later... The army size differential is now in favor of Polt. But we know JD is spending his money, therefore the only conclusion is that terran is trading efficiently enough with the zerg army to overcome a deficit of 36 workers ( probably less because of mules).
TIME TO SAY GOODNIGHT BRO!
calh
Profile Joined March 2013
537 Posts
October 22 2013 22:18 GMT
#81
Polt actually does pretty well against DRG historically, even when Zerg was OP. And despite the difference in composition, his style has always had the same basic elements: high tempo, fluid movements, strong pressure into timely opportunism. Who he did have troubles with was Zergs who mixed up all-ins, and Life (who was practically invincible against Terrans at the time). With the current meta I think he would be the weakest against defensive Zergs like Soulkey or Scarlett. His macro HotS losses I've seen were mostly when the Zerg managed to stall him at a choke (due to a big weakness of mines compared to tanks - lack of range to push through chokes, resulting in a very slow advance) and harrass his economy while he had to babysit the front (basically exploiting his relatively weak multitask like the article mentioned).
TaishiCi
Profile Joined September 2013
Korea (South)211 Posts
October 22 2013 23:49 GMT
#82
Wow Suppy is actually going pretty close to even with Polt on ladder atm.
Suppy just went full time too? Better watch out for this guy.
Dae Han Min Gook Man Sae!!!
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
October 23 2013 07:18 GMT
#83
On October 23 2013 00:50 BronzeKnee wrote:
It literally makes me sick to my stomach to see the American Way and then Polt's name listed. Is this some kind of defense of the fact regions aren't locked in WCS? Polt represents the Korean Way.

From Liquidpedia:

Choi "Polt" Seong Hun is a Terran player from South Korea, who is currently playing for CMStorm.

Name: 최성훈
Romanized Name: Choi Seong Hun
Birth: July 2, 1988 (age 25)
Country: South Korea
Race: Terran


And from this interview from Polt himself:

Polt: For Korean fans, there is no idea like a Korean player is representing Korea because there are so many Korean players in the winners bracket. On the other hand, American fans want a player who is representing their country, so I’ll be happy if USA fans think I can do that. The fact I’m living in Texas right now affected my interaction so much. I don’t think I am a representative of the USA but I’ll be glad if USA fans cheer for me and think like that.

He doesn't represent America, or the American way, and even admits that he doesn't represent America (and don't give me crap that America ≠ US, there is a big American flag behind the picture)! He represents Korea and will be serving his mandatory military service there.

If there was an American champion, who actually lived and was a citizen of some country in America (and didn't just come here for school), I'd still watch WCS... but that throne is currently filled by an impostor from another country.


Lol, come on now....
KarlSiegt
Profile Joined December 2011
Italy35 Posts
October 23 2013 11:40 GMT
#84
Some times ago , MMM+M.
And now , MMM+M Part 2.

Is this a joke?..
Italia
Ctesias
Profile Joined December 2012
4595 Posts
October 23 2013 15:29 GMT
#85
On October 23 2013 20:40 KarlSiegt wrote:
Some times ago , MMM+M.
And now , MMM+M Part 2.

Is this a joke?..

You want a mech guide? That'd be the joke.

I, for one, appreciate this guide. Thanks.
Flash | Mvp
Iron_
Profile Joined April 2010
United States389 Posts
October 23 2013 15:32 GMT
#86
Great stuff. I look forward to reading about his tactics, which to me is the most impressive part of this game.
KarlSiegt
Profile Joined December 2011
Italy35 Posts
October 23 2013 18:19 GMT
#87
On October 24 2013 00:29 Ctesias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 20:40 KarlSiegt wrote:
Some times ago , MMM+M.
And now , MMM+M Part 2.

Is this a joke?..

You want a mech guide? That'd be the joke.

I, for one, appreciate this guide. Thanks.


Lol.. so so sad.. don ' t forget the stimpack.
Italia
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 23 2013 18:44 GMT
#88
On October 23 2013 16:18 AxionSteel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 00:50 BronzeKnee wrote:
It literally makes me sick to my stomach to see the American Way and then Polt's name listed. Is this some kind of defense of the fact regions aren't locked in WCS? Polt represents the Korean Way.

From Liquidpedia:

Choi "Polt" Seong Hun is a Terran player from South Korea, who is currently playing for CMStorm.

Name: 최성훈
Romanized Name: Choi Seong Hun
Birth: July 2, 1988 (age 25)
Country: South Korea
Race: Terran


And from this interview from Polt himself:

Polt: For Korean fans, there is no idea like a Korean player is representing Korea because there are so many Korean players in the winners bracket. On the other hand, American fans want a player who is representing their country, so I’ll be happy if USA fans think I can do that. The fact I’m living in Texas right now affected my interaction so much. I don’t think I am a representative of the USA but I’ll be glad if USA fans cheer for me and think like that.

He doesn't represent America, or the American way, and even admits that he doesn't represent America (and don't give me crap that America ≠ US, there is a big American flag behind the picture)! He represents Korea and will be serving his mandatory military service there.

If there was an American champion, who actually lived and was a citizen of some country in America (and didn't just come here for school), I'd still watch WCS... but that throne is currently filled by an impostor from another country.


Lol, come on now....


The racism is strong in this one... Like, I thought the "USA!" Stephano joke was taken too seriously, I even thought Artosis' "Team America" snafu was taken too seriously. But... wow... over 9000 worth of wtf.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
TaishiCi
Profile Joined September 2013
Korea (South)211 Posts
October 23 2013 19:35 GMT
#89
On October 24 2013 00:29 Ctesias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 20:40 KarlSiegt wrote:
Some times ago , MMM+M.
And now , MMM+M Part 2.

Is this a joke?..

You want a mech guide? That'd be the joke.

I, for one, appreciate this guide. Thanks.


Mech guide would be a joke.
However I hope there would be more of an effort to develop a viable mech strategy.
Improved Thor's ability against armored units with a beefy tank unit helbat there is some merit to at least trying to use it in a non mirror match up.
Terran needs to find a strong late game composition that can compete with tier 3 tech of other races.
Dae Han Min Gook Man Sae!!!
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 23 2013 19:41 GMT
#90
On October 24 2013 04:35 TaishiCi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2013 00:29 Ctesias wrote:
On October 23 2013 20:40 KarlSiegt wrote:
Some times ago , MMM+M.
And now , MMM+M Part 2.

Is this a joke?..

You want a mech guide? That'd be the joke.

I, for one, appreciate this guide. Thanks.


Mech guide would be a joke.
However I hope there would be more of an effort to develop a viable mech strategy.
Improved Thor's ability against armored units with a beefy tank unit helbat there is some merit to at least trying to use it in a non mirror match up.
Terran needs to find a strong late game composition that can compete with tier 3 tech of other races.


The problem with mech is that Hellions don't plug the tactical holes in the Siege Tank's design, Thors are so expensive you might as well spam Battlecruisers, and Widow Mines complement Bio play more than Siege tank play because why would you have two units that plant themselves to the ground?

Vultures+Mines allowed BW mech to defend areas out of tank range with 0 supply units and Goliaths provided relatively cheap anti-air.

Hellions are min-only cannon fodder--Marines do that job better and cheaper (with good control)

Thors are more expensive than Siege Tanks and so Tanks Support thors more than Thors support Siege tanks and why would you want 2 anti-ground units?

Widow Mines are short range and immobile. Perfect when paired with zippy marines, terrible when paired with immobile thors and immobile tanks.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
[CCSRAM] BaoQuan
Profile Joined August 2013
United States96 Posts
October 24 2013 03:09 GMT
#91
Wow Suppy is actually going pretty close to even with Polt on ladder atm.
Suppy just went full time too? Better watch out for this guy.


He beat Polt in the HSV Qualifiers yesterday, too
Hushfield
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Belgium80 Posts
October 24 2013 21:36 GMT
#92
Incredible write-up, and nice timing as well. Polt is such a boss.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 25 2013 03:44 GMT
#93
On October 25 2013 06:36 Hushfield wrote:
Incredible write-up, and nice timing as well. Polt is such a boss.


Its Polt's fault. I wrote this after the LAST finals he won. It just was finished with edits and graphics and the like right this week.
terrantosaur
Profile Joined August 2011
42 Posts
October 28 2013 18:52 GMT
#94
Thanks for these guides. They are excellent.

I have a question about early game aggression from the zerg (which is similar to the (unanswered) question I posted on the first of these guides recently). [I also misposted this on the other thread so apologies for that!]

Let's say the terran goes CC first (high ground or low ground) but scouts the zerg early. The terran scouts hatch first from the zerg but then early gas thereafter. I believe the correct response is to make sure you've walled off your natural by just before 6 mins in order to prevent a speedling rush from surrounding your bunker and killing it...

However... if the zerg is actually going for a v quick baneling bust, is it actually correct to wall in? I find that the timing of the first hellions is v close to the arrival of the banelings so you get very little warning this is coming. You could scan and hope to see whether the zerg took extra gas after the 100 for speed but, unless you see the baneling nest, you don't know what the extra gas is for. The issue I find is that, if it is the baneling bust, it will almost always kill the bunker and, although you can pull your hellions back to your main and evacuate the scvs from your natural (if you are quick), the zerg has completely free rein over the supply depot wall. ie they get to kill 4 supply depots for nothing - which, even if they do no other damage (which they will), is terrible for the terran (even if the terran is good enough not to get supply blocked).

It got me thinking that perhaps there is a way I don't know to tell whether it is the speedling rush or a baneling bust?
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 29 2013 02:19 GMT
#95
It is correct to wall in.

To figure out if they are going for such a bust attempt to rescout with your SCV right when the Zerg would have gathered his first 100 gas. If you see mining of gas beyond 100 its a very very strong tell.

To hold such a bust, add more bunkers (some add one in the main as well) and place only a single marine in each bunker. Prespread all marines not in bunkers. Pay careful attention to your hellions as they are critical for killing zerglings in a bust situation.
bypLy
Profile Joined June 2013
757 Posts
October 29 2013 04:32 GMT
#96
lol american way... polt is korean?
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
October 29 2013 04:41 GMT
#97
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
October 29 2013 04:41 GMT
#98
Hello everyone!

I and some other TLStrat members were able to talk to Polt this weekend and we asked him if he saw the article that Vader here wrote on him. He said yes! He referenced it as "the very long one".

He was impressed by it and he said it was well written. When asked if we had given away all his secrets he said no (damn there's more learning to be done!) but he did say he needs to keep working on new builds now!

StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
bypLy
Profile Joined June 2013
757 Posts
October 29 2013 05:30 GMT
#99
On October 29 2013 13:41 vaderseven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.


he actually won WCS America not Korea.

However, its sad that the author tries to imply an American way of playing starcraft. Thats just riciolous. The American league is flooded by Koreans. There is no American player under the Top50 according to WCS points.
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
October 29 2013 05:41 GMT
#100
On October 29 2013 14:30 bypLy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 13:41 vaderseven wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.


he actually won WCS America not Korea.

However, its sad that the author tries to imply an American way of playing starcraft. Thats just riciolous. The American league is flooded by Koreans. There is no American player under the Top50 according to WCS points.


Its just a joke, and the guy you replied to is the writer. Polt being American is one of the running gags in the SC2 community. He has completely embraced America though so its a little bit fitting.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
bypLy
Profile Joined June 2013
757 Posts
October 29 2013 05:50 GMT
#101
On October 29 2013 14:41 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 14:30 bypLy wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:41 vaderseven wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.


he actually won WCS America not Korea.

However, its sad that the author tries to imply an American way of playing starcraft. Thats just riciolous. The American league is flooded by Koreans. There is no American player under the Top50 according to WCS points.


Its just a joke, and the guy you replied to is the writer. Polt being American is one of the running gags in the SC2 community. He has completely embraced America though so its a little bit fitting.


i cant see whats funny about it, i find it just sad

whatever, the guide is great
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 29 2013 06:07 GMT
#102
On October 29 2013 14:50 bypLy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 14:41 ZeromuS wrote:
On October 29 2013 14:30 bypLy wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:41 vaderseven wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.


he actually won WCS America not Korea.

However, its sad that the author tries to imply an American way of playing starcraft. Thats just riciolous. The American league is flooded by Koreans. There is no American player under the Top50 according to WCS points.


Its just a joke, and the guy you replied to is the writer. Polt being American is one of the running gags in the SC2 community. He has completely embraced America though so its a little bit fitting.


i cant see whats funny about it, i find it just sad

whatever, the guide is great


Its a hold over from the Stephano Days when people jokingly called him american for winning IPL, which was a hold over from artosis calling Korea vs World team america right before winking at the camera.

Its a joke as old as SC2 itself. Quit with the butt hurt.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
bypLy
Profile Joined June 2013
757 Posts
October 29 2013 06:14 GMT
#103
On October 29 2013 15:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 14:50 bypLy wrote:
On October 29 2013 14:41 ZeromuS wrote:
On October 29 2013 14:30 bypLy wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:41 vaderseven wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.


he actually won WCS America not Korea.

However, its sad that the author tries to imply an American way of playing starcraft. Thats just riciolous. The American league is flooded by Koreans. There is no American player under the Top50 according to WCS points.


Its just a joke, and the guy you replied to is the writer. Polt being American is one of the running gags in the SC2 community. He has completely embraced America though so its a little bit fitting.


i cant see whats funny about it, i find it just sad

whatever, the guide is great


Its a hold over from the Stephano Days when people jokingly called him american for winning IPL, which was a hold over from artosis calling Korea vs World team america right before winking at the camera.

Its a joke as old as SC2 itself. Quit with the butt hurt.


i still dont get why you would pretend someone being from your country just because he won a tournement in that country. Not is it just poor for the one who claims it, but its also an insult towards the player and his true nation
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-30 06:16:08
October 29 2013 07:58 GMT
#104
To be specific I named the thread TvZ The American Way because of four factors:

#1 This was specifically used to win the finals of 2 different WCS AM tournaments.
#2 There is no 'american' TvZ style
#3 Polt lives in America, plays in America, wins in America... No other Terran has this going on.
#4 Its a catchy title that has an obvious joke of making fun of America, my home country, built into via an irony factor centered around the skill gap between Polt and every single American player.

If anyone thinks that Polt is being portrayed as an American they have poor contextual comprehension skills and will most likely not benefit from the analysis in the guide itself.

Jeez a style used to win an American tourament... TWICE... is IRONICLY called "the american way" (which I thought was clever as it implies that the american way to TvZ is just let a Korean do it)

On October 29 2013 14:30 bypLy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 13:41 vaderseven wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.


he actually won WCS America not Korea.

However, its sad that the author tries to imply an American way of playing starcraft. Thats just riciolous. The American league is flooded by Koreans. There is no American player under the Top50 according to WCS points.


If you think that I dont know what league Polt was playing in then you should just go back to Romania.

Even better is how there is a post between yours and mine lets take a look:

On October 29 2013 13:41 ZeromuS wrote:
Hello everyone!

I and some other TLStrat members were able to talk to Polt this weekend and we asked him if he saw the article that Vader here wrote on him. He said yes! He referenced it as "the very long one".

He was impressed by it and he said it was well written. When asked if we had given away all his secrets he said no (damn there's more learning to be done!) but he did say he needs to keep working on new builds now!



Can ya figure out that I wrote this by the context clues?

Makes me a bit sausy to have the best compliment possible for the work I put into this to be overshadowed by Romania lack of humor.

+ Show Spoiler +
There is more irony laced humor in this post and no actual anger fyi


LOL ty you for the pm.

+ Show Spoiler +


Original Message From bypLy:
catchy title in order to attrack peepz but in fact lying to them, pretending others results as if it is yours.

if this is the american way, its a shame...

guys like you ruin esports, why dont you contribute in a honest way? you have obviously some potential.

honest guys like polt study in america for the international experience, and get a good job when they come back. they lough behind peepz like you, trust me...

never mind


That's pretty priceless.

Look at the post below, some of Polt's bests fans know that he gets the joke and part of showing our love towards him is participating in the joke with him.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 29 2013 14:19 GMT
#105
On October 29 2013 15:14 bypLy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2013 15:07 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 29 2013 14:50 bypLy wrote:
On October 29 2013 14:41 ZeromuS wrote:
On October 29 2013 14:30 bypLy wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:41 vaderseven wrote:
On October 29 2013 13:32 bypLy wrote:
lol american way... polt is korean?


He did win the Korean WCS two times using this style. You are correct.


he actually won WCS America not Korea.

However, its sad that the author tries to imply an American way of playing starcraft. Thats just riciolous. The American league is flooded by Koreans. There is no American player under the Top50 according to WCS points.


Its just a joke, and the guy you replied to is the writer. Polt being American is one of the running gags in the SC2 community. He has completely embraced America though so its a little bit fitting.


i cant see whats funny about it, i find it just sad

whatever, the guide is great


Its a hold over from the Stephano Days when people jokingly called him american for winning IPL, which was a hold over from artosis calling Korea vs World team america right before winking at the camera.

Its a joke as old as SC2 itself. Quit with the butt hurt.


i still dont get why you would pretend someone being from your country just because he won a tournement in that country. Not is it just poor for the one who claims it, but its also an insult towards the player and his true nation


People chanted USA when Stephano won against Polt and Stephano found it funny, he even draped himself in an American flag in his next tournament to continue the joke. He didn't take it seriously much like we as the fans don't take it seriously because it's supposed to be funny that the only way the US stays relevant is vicariously through foreigners.

If you try to argue against this one more time I'm just going to assume you're trolling and stop wasting my time arguing with you.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
November 03 2013 17:54 GMT
#106
Zerg players looking for inspiration on how to play vs this kind of game plan should def check out soulkey vs polt at the season 3 finals.

Especially the game on belshir.

That game showcases a way to take map control vs the fast starport and how to take advantage of the later upgrades that result out of it.
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