[G] PvP Teno´s Gateway Style

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 24 2013 20:29 GMT

TEST YOUR ALLINS VS ME! CONTACT ME INGAME

About me
+ Show Spoiler +

My name is Sasha, i´m 17 years old, from germany and currently in the team [OrbT] Team Orbit. I play sc2 since the first day of starcraft 2 till today. I am mid high master with currently 900 points and 550 pool left. My opponents are around 1,3k to top 100 gm(will include 1)

Who can play this?
+ Show Spoiler +

This build is designed to get played by any protoss in any league. You can have alot of fun with this build and show your multitasking to your opponent

Sense of the build
+ Show Spoiler +

We want to archieve to out-multitask him with prism, dts and our immortal archon army. To do this we want to have pylons on the map for constant pressure and a warpprism on the map to apply constant pressure on him

Opening
+ Show Spoiler +

We open with a 1 gate expansion with 1 sentry following it up with 2 more and a robo.
9-Pylon
13-Gate
14/15-both gases
16-Pylon
18-Core
20-Pylon
now build a sentry, followed by a mothershipcore and then the gate tech
go ahead and expand at around 4:30.
Build another sentry and then a robo at 5:00.
After this we want the 3rd sentry following up and 2 more gates to go down around 5:30

Mid Game
+ Show Spoiler +

Here i want to tell you my timings approximatly:
After we expanded we want to have pretty constant probe production at least till we have 9min.
So we take our Gases at the natural at around 7:20.
We follow this up with a forge at 7:40 where we build constant attack upgrades.
9:10 is the time to build our twilight to open the templar tech and get charge soon.
At 9:30 we expand to our 3rd
After we are saturated on 2 bases after we build our nexus we add around 5 to 7 gates and add a Warprpism.
Now we can start probe production again.
At around 11 min we build our Templar archieve(more later)

Lategame
+ Show Spoiler +

After we did our pressure, we add a second robo and a robotics bay to get double colosi production. We have all techs open, so we can pressure though the entire game now with our prism and our pylons.

Deciding the templar route

High Templar
+ Show Spoiler +

With High templars we can archieve a stronger chargelot archon army but our drop and multiprong pressure is weaker then. Against Skytoss we have the chance to go for storm and archons to just overwhelm him. In this case we have to go for like 5-8 templars to have enough storms.

Dark Templar
+ Show Spoiler +

Dark Templars are the power of protoss for harras. In PvP they re stronger when they are undetected but detected they re weak. With Dark templar we have the better chance to do damage with drops and multiprong attacks, but we make our chargelot archon weaker caused by the more expensive cost per unit.
If our opponent doesnt scout the dark shrine and just has observer we re positevly will do damage caused by unsatisfactory detection. The only way to defend multi prong attacks with dts is when he has 2 canons per eco line and 2 photon overcharges which makes him unable to defend his 3rd against our main army

So when to decide for HT or Dt tech?

Robo play

+ Show Spoiler +

If you scout him going for robo you dont need high templars in order to kill a skytoss player, also with robo he is way slower than your fast army and will not be able to defend without loses. In this case its sure you do damage. The only advantage in building the HT tech is to have more chargelots

Skytoss
+ Show Spoiler +

You can scout it by seeing him opening stargate and still remaining building units out of his stargate. Or in the midgame by scouting him going 2 Stargates with your Hallu. If he plays Skytoss you go ahead and can decide whatever you want because there are no real advantages in deciding what youre going for.
Ht are here really good caused by storm tech to kill his voidrays or to feedback phenixes.
If youre going to go ahead and build dark templars you must be really aggressiv because the lack of detection. He cant be everywhere with his inmobile and really slow army. Also
if he splitts up his army you can just kill party of his army with chareglot archon and do damage to buildings and probes by runbuys

twilight mirror
+ Show Spoiler +

Never really played vs this but i think here are dark templars better because of the lack of detection. If someone has advice or ideas just post it under the guide and i will add the qoute

Our Pressure
+ Show Spoiler +

when we have our +1 upgrade we will roll out with a ball of 3 sentrys, some archons, 2-3 immortals and chanreglots and our most important unit the Warpprism! At 10 min we spread pylons around the map to keep up constant reinforcement. We start showing our army to him so that he keeps all units at his expansion or possible 3rd. Our prism should be know loaded with 4 zealots. We send it into the main base and drop all 4 zlots and warp in like 6 more.
He moves back
Now Send 3-4 zlots to his 3rd and attack his expansion so he cant defend the 3rd.
If you went for dts, send 4 to there and kill all workers or the nexus. If he moves back from the main, warp there again and kill his enxus and tech.
With your main army you only want to bait him to not defend, YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE A FIGHT THEN!

He stays
Just warpin Dts or zlots and move with your main army back to home to not die to his force. With the time goes on youre way ahead of him. Now go for 2 robos and kill him in lategame.
If he attacks with colosi force, spread out and atatck from multiple sides to crush his army, because he will not have the minerals to keep up attacking.
The same when he atatcks with air force, but just warpin some units at his main or 3rd so he has no follow up.

Some tips
+ Show Spoiler +

Ok now i give you some tips i learned from my games and pro gamers.
1# Dont use Overcharge too early, just let your nexus get attacked a while till you have more forces to fight him back.
2# Before you start your pressure line up liek 5 pylons to not get supply blocked while youre attacking
3# When you attack with your prism check before if you have cooldown on your gates, because every secound counts. YOu should be able to drop and instantly warp in 6 zealots.
4# After +3 attack start shield weapons because we will use alot of archons.

Use of hallucination
+ Show Spoiler +

We have 3 sentrys and allot of energy. We want to constantly scout with hallu phenixes to check his tech, if an allin is incoming or whatever. This is important for our decicion of selecting a tech path

Use of mothershipcore
+ Show Spoiler +

As far as our core is finished we go scouting all proxy locations for proxy stargate or proxy pylons so we have time to react and prepare.

Why 3 sentrys?
+ Show Spoiler +

With 3 sentrys your in a bad spot against Oracles, yes but with an opening that has 3 fast sentrys you can afford to scout with you first 100 energy and still be safe. You already should checked all proxy locations with your core. If he goes for Oracle/Phenixes you build your gates directly and cancel 3rd sentry and go for a stalker instead.

Defending allins
4 gate
+ Show Spoiler +

You can cancel the nexus and go for a colosi allin. To archieve this position, you must chrono your sentrys and directly ff your ramp! you cant let them in your main base, because that makes it way harder to pull off. If he gets into the main base you must chrono out immortals and use your photon overcharge. Warpin zealots to have a meetshield for your immortals, or stalkers if you want to build a sim city

DT allin/ expansion
+ Show Spoiler +

You always go for observer first so you shuld have problems. Check out my 8th replay. You need 2 canons per mineral line and 1 observer per mineral line. Stay defensiv and defend his eventually incoming allin with sim city, archons and overcharge

Stargate
+ Show Spoiler +

The hardest to pull off. You will often lose to stargate openings because of the lack of gates and good anti air. Add canons as fast as possible, use overcharge and build stalkers to defend his army.Always check if he stays on phenix/void/oracle and see when he wants to tech to tempest. You must keep an eye at your prism to not lose it to phenixes. If he is going for full air, you can abuse his slow army and kill his worker line with dts and zealots. Build an army with archon zealots. Here you need a DT shrine because you want as much archons as you can have against his air units. In the later stage of the game you have to use storm or you lose to mass splitted voidrays. Keep harrasing and upgrading. Also take blink and snipe things, even more abuse the slow air army.

Replays
+ Show Spoiler +

I will update the guide and will answer all the questions

This is my first guide so please be nice to me and give me advices

Thank you for your time reading my guide

Special Thanks to Markov and Team Zelos

My opening is by State

Add me ingame

Tenó 780 (eu)
Teno 924 (na)

Paljas

Germany6926 Posts

July 24 2013 23:19 GMT

good effort, but the whole concept seems a little bit vague to me.
what happends if he defens your drop with a overcharge and a small warp in?
how do you deal with huge colossus pushes?

But seeing that you play on a pretty high level, i will give this a try. Good work for your first guide

ShoCkSC2

Germany340 Posts

July 25 2013 01:15 GMT

From a timing perspective, you would have 3 Sentries which is almost no anti-air. I think its important to mention that scouting around for possible Proxy-Stargates is crucial in this case, especially looking at the fact that you go 1 gate robo.

This means u start your gates at 5.30, so that they will finish 6.35. Transforming to warpgate takes I think about ~10-15 seconds, that would be around 6.55. A Proxy-oracle would hit way earlier, even a normal Oracle can hit earlier than that.

In that case we would have: Photon Overcharge,maybe a single warpin and 3 Sentries against 1 or possibly soon enough 2 Oracles.

Combine that with a small Gateway-force attacking the natural. Without being able to warpin off of more than 1 Gateway and only relying on Sentries (Until 6.55) and an Immortal that can pop out at around 7.xx the earliest, I think this will have some trouble.

Do you have any experiences with it?
And yes, I know its a known fact that 1 gate expands are generally not good against Oracle-3Gates, but there are better ones and weaker ones against certain builds.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

July 25 2013 14:12 GMT

3 sentries to expand like that is too risky, the sweet spot for sentry count is 1 or 2 really.
Sentries are nice for scouting and ff but they are a bit weak against blink and stargate all-ins which are the most troublesome to deal with when expanding. You need some stalkers instead to deal with oracle harass, oracle into voidray all-ins, blink all-ins and phoenix harass/all-ins.
Personally I go stalker-sentry-stalker when expanding and 2nd gate before robo. I haven't yet found a comfortable way to go more sentries as they are so fragile when it coming to stopping early small pressure. Opening stalker also had the advantage of often being able to deny them scouting your expansion too easily, if they just see you expanding while you're in the dark you are behind when they go expo + stargate for phoenix harass.

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 25 2013 15:22 GMT

On July 25 2013 08:19 Paljas wrote:
good effort, but the whole concept seems a little bit vague to me.
what happends if he defens your drop with a overcharge and a small warp in?
how do you deal with huge colossus pushes?

But seeing that you play on a pretty high level, i will give this a try. Good work for your first guide

Thank you. I would say you do damage in 100% of al cases. If he overreacts and warpins all his units in his mainbase then just attack at the front or start a concave before his ramp and send some zealots to his 3rd. If he doesnt has a 3rd just keep back and defend against his allin. If you decided to go for dts you can warpin 4 in the mainbase and snipe the nexus. If he has canons just snipe them.

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 25 2013 15:25 GMT

On July 25 2013 23:12 Markwerf wrote:
3 sentries to expand like that is too risky, the sweet spot for sentry count is 1 or 2 really.
Sentries are nice for scouting and ff but they are a bit weak against blink and stargate all-ins which are the most troublesome to deal with when expanding. You need some stalkers instead to deal with oracle harass, oracle into voidray all-ins, blink all-ins and phoenix harass/all-ins.
Personally I go stalker-sentry-stalker when expanding and 2nd gate before robo. I haven't yet found a comfortable way to go more sentries as they are so fragile when it coming to stopping early small pressure. Opening stalker also had the advantage of often being able to deny them scouting your expansion too easily, if they just see you expanding while you're in the dark you are behind when they go expo + stargate for phoenix harass.

Yeah the build is by State just copied it

. I never had problems to defend against blink stalkers but yes you can have less problems at defending them if you openend with 2 sentrys 1 stalker / 1 sentry 2 stalker. Just dont start the overcharge too fast.
Oracel are a problem but you can scout them easily and react to it with faster 2 gates much later robo and chrono at the gates.
You will go for Phenix hallu as far as you reach the first 100 Energie on your first sentry.

ShoCkSC2

Germany340 Posts

July 25 2013 16:15 GMT

When do you have the first 100 energy on a sentry? I'm curious because if u do hallucinate scout, I'm pretty sure by the time u see him going stargate u already planted your robo before gateways, so your gates will be delayed anyway. Just asking because of oracle timings. Also, spening that much energy asap would mean you were open to more attacks early on again (things in form of Warpgate attacks, no FF for ramp or just 1-2)

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 26 2013 00:52 GMT

New replay against mass voidrays. This time I decided to use dts instead of hTs to kill my opponent and like you will see it works well, i kill his 3rd and many workers to get a hugh lead which I kinda lose :D

Canadaehz

Canada59 Posts

July 26 2013 09:54 GMT

Does this build ever transition into Tempests or some form of higher tech? I have seen a lot of games where a player just stays on zealot, immortal, archon, stalker, HT's the entire game, But I have also seen a lot of pro players transition into tempests.

Also if you were to transition into tempests, what part of the game would you do so? After establishing your 3rd? Is that too early? Or how about after full saturation at your 3rd? It is hard to read sometimes because without full vision on his army it his hard whether he is committing hard to units earlier to attack.

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 26 2013 13:19 GMT

#10

On July 26 2013 18:54 Canadaehz wrote:
Does this build ever transition into Tempests or some form of higher tech? I have seen a lot of games where a player just stays on zealot, immortal, archon, stalker, HT's the entire game, But I have also seen a lot of pro players transition into tempests.

Also if you were to transition into tempests, what part of the game would you do so? After establishing your 3rd? Is that too early? Or how about after full saturation at your 3rd? It is hard to read sometimes because without full vision on his army it his hard whether he is committing hard to units earlier to attack.

Never tried out to go for tempest. I personally prefer colosi tech. But for sure you can start the transition while your harass as far as you know that he won´t counter allin you. When your 3rd is saturated go ahead and add 2 stargates and start air weapons, but dont be too greedy. I will test it out for you and will upload a replay as soon as I get one.

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 28 2013 16:08 GMT

#11

Someone tried my style out and can give me feedback?

Kovaz

Canada233 Posts

July 28 2013 16:32 GMT

#12

I've been playing a similar style, and the main issue I've had is with stargate openers. I find I don't have stalkers early enough to deal with the fastest oracles, and so I inevitably take damage and end up behind. Also with phoenix openings, I'm not sure how to react. If I warp in stalkers mainly to deflect damage to my workers, I can't hold an allin that warps in mainly zealots, but if I warp in a bunch of zealots, the phoenixes just demolish my mineral line and he expands and plays a macro game with a lead.

Other than that it feels solid and I come out ahead more often than not. The only other issue I have is I feel like there's no potential to attack, so if your opponent scouts the sentry-first build he can just drop everything he was doing and expand as well, and come out even or ahead. Unless there exists a build that goes sentry-first but stays on one base and techs, but I've never seen one.

Sir.Phalanx

Japan195 Posts

July 28 2013 16:39 GMT

#13

Just read this and the mid-late game part of the guide seems pretty solid. Great effort, and there's some slight spelling/grammar mistakes but that's understandable if english isn't your native language :D

I do wish that you had a bit more of a guide as for how to defend against allins/rushes of the early game... maybe it's expected for the player to know how to react against allins after going for the 1gate expo but I think the guide would be much better if you could have a bit of a guide on how to react against the various allins.

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 28 2013 17:07 GMT

#14

On July 29 2013 01:39 Sir.Phalanx wrote:
Just read this and the mid-late game part of the guide seems pretty solid. Great effort, and there's some slight spelling/grammar mistakes but that's understandable if english isn't your native language :D

I do wish that you had a bit more of a guide as for how to defend against allins/rushes of the early game... maybe it's expected for the player to know how to react against allins after going for the 1gate expo but I think the guide would be much better if you could have a bit of a guide on how to react against the various allins.

Sure, I wanted to explain my style and not how to defend allins, but if someone has mayor issus with some allins, i can ulpoad replays where i defend them. Or i can easily add this to my guide, but i dont think this is needed

Magnifico

1958 Posts

July 28 2013 17:53 GMT

#15

On July 29 2013 02:07 livestar wrote:

Show nested quote +

I would appreciate that, if you don't mind.

Teno

Germany80 Posts

July 28 2013 21:03 GMT

#16

On July 29 2013 02:53 Tiaraju9 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I would appreciate that, if you don't mind.

updatet a bit more incoming

Sir.Phalanx

Japan195 Posts

July 30 2013 00:11 GMT

#17

thanks for the small update

It may not be so important for some people but I always find it helps if guides write up those things too so. I'll try this out when I'm able to and give some feedback :D