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Recently SoS and Flying played a PvP in Proleague using the same builds. They caught my eye, since I had seen Creator use a very similar build on his stream. I'll add links to the VoDs and list the build order and what I believe is the reasoning behind it.
Flying vs Dear
SoS vs Mini
Best also used this build vs. Bong, but it was played on a weird map with high-yield gas. I'll add the link here anyway.
Best vs Bong
Flying opens with:
Double gas at 15 ->Mine 2-2
Mine 3-3 once Core is built
Start a Zealot
23 Pylon
23 Cancel Zealot
21 Sentry, Warp Gate (Chrono Twice)
24 MSC
26 Stalker
28 Twilight
29 Cut Probes, 2x Gate
29 Stalker
31 One more Probe
32 Blink (Lots of Chrono)
32 Forward Pylon
Warp 3 Stalkers
SoS does a similar build, but he gets gasses at 15-19 and keeps the Zealot.
Why is this build good?
-It's very safe against Gateway pressure. You get a Sentry that is going to have 2 Forcefields and a MSC that will have a Nexus Cannon once Stalkers walk into your base.
- Very strong against Oracle openings. You get early Stalkers you can keep in your mineral line. It also has the potential to get a DT shrine if you manage to kill the Oracle, as Best shows.
- Against Stargate openings in general you can contain them (perhaps using the Sentry) and expand ahead of your opponent. If your opponent goes into Robo tech to beat Blink, you can just go into Stargate.
- You can get great scouting information because of the early Sentry. At 6 minutes (once you know Gateway pressure is not coming) you can send out a Phoenix.
Discussion:
- How to beat DTs? Realistically, DTs will reach your base at 7 minutes. You should have scouted them with your phoenix at that point, but you don't have time to get a Robo up. You probably have 1-2 Forcefields to buy time, and you can even warp in an additional Sentry.
- What happens if the opponent 1 gate expands? We will not really know before our hallucinate scout, and we're already committed to Blink at that point. 1 Gate expands tend to get a quick Robo as well, so it would seem this might be very difficult.
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HerO did the same build in his latest replay pack in a PvP vs. iG.Macsed. But he went zealot-sentry-sentry and a fast expand (reaction to opponents FE), followed up by stalkers up until 8 or 12 I think. Oh, and gasses at 14\15 - 19 (right after putting down cybercore).
The army comp HerO goes into is Zealot - Archon - Immortal. Storm against Void Rays and I think there should be Void Ray reaction to colossus (not sure about this). HerO also did a storm drop in that game.
I guess my question for moving the discussion along is; what are your strong timings in this meta, what is your ideal army composition?
I really like the opening though, blink stalkers really give you strong map control e.g. for punishing lean builds, chase down phoenixes etc. in addition to the continous hallucination scouts which should give you total information.
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why does everyone say SoS instead of sOs these days?
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Slightly disappointed about the little discussion on this build, would be nice to hear about some weaknesses to worry about.
If I'm unable to scout his tech early, I go for a ultra-conservative Gate - Twilight\2xGate (Order varies depending on how much I mess up my build but given I go Zealot-Sentry-Sentry, I think gates go down before Twilight.) - Robo - Expand, which should make me safe against DT's.
I haven't had a proper game where I really struggled as the game played out. It's sad to see that both Woongjin Stars players got beaten in those games. To be honest, I didn't even think colossus was still in the meta but that just shows how ignorant one can be xD
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On May 03 2013 04:20 Bahamuth wrote:
Discussion:
- How to beat DTs? Realistically, DTs will reach your base at 7 minutes. You should have scouted them with your phoenix at that point, but you don't have time to get a Robo up. You probably have 1-2 Forcefields to buy time, and you can even warp in an additional Sentry.
- What happens if the opponent 1 gate expands? We will not really know before our hallucinate scout, and we're already committed to Blink at that point. 1 Gate expands tend to get a quick Robo as well, so it would seem this might be very difficult.
Thanks for the build, looks really nice.
I'm not sure how you beat a straight DT rush though. In WOL you could scout the front with a Probe and if they lacked gas units, you'd know to throw down a Robo. In HOTS the DT Shrine is so much cheaper that you can't rely on that. You're just going to have to bunch your units up at your ramp and FF when a DT shows up to buy time for the Robo.
A 1 Gate expanding opponent who has a Robo might be broken with a switch to Zealot/Archon (probably need use HT's to get Archons and might not have time to get Charge, but you also have Sentries for FF to trap units). You should have time to switch into that after the 6 minute scout I think. The counter to this play is a wall, but a well timed attack should hit before the wall is done.
A Warp Prism 4 Gate would be difficult to hold too on a map where the Nexus Cannon doesn't cover the whole main.
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I've played some more games. I think you can just get a Robo at around 6 minutes around the time you phoenix scout. If you see a Stargate, you can just cancel it.
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I'm looking for a good PvP build. I heard this build is quite good, but I'm wondering how can I scout and stop dts?
Is it possible to perhaps just scout with probe and if you identify no early pressure then you can safely send the MSC in to see if he gets darkshrine? That way you scout early enough to see if dts come. As I saw PartinG's blink build use MSC to scout using the same method for example.
Also should I put expo right away against 1 gate expand or should I try to pressure with blink stalkers?
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Well, the builds are very comparable. There's no reason you couldn't MSC scout with this build as well. The only real difference is that you get a Sentry here, while PartinG does not. Even if you don't want to scout with the MSC, you can send out a Hallucinated Phoenix at like 5:55. If you know where your opponent is, you can easily drop the Robo in time. I think you should even have a Force Field once DTs arrive to buy some time for the Obs.
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EPT
