EPTSo the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras?
[G] Fleet Keys - Refined Hotkey Systems - Page 4
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
So the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras? | ||
|
BaRR
Australia18 Posts
On March 26 2013 11:31 eneyeseekay wrote: @BaRR So the problem is when you press Ctrl+A or Ctrl+B you can't recall them with Alt+A and Alt+B? What about the rest of them? Does S,Z,X and C work for you when creating/recalling cameras? Yes this is the main problem I have. I can make and recall camera groups (D,F) I never use more then 1-4 camera groups so I didn't try with the others. Its just (Ctrl + A & B) & (Alt + A & B) | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 26 2013 11:34 BaRR wrote: Yes this is the main problem I have. I can make and recall camera groups (D,F) I never use more then 1-4 camera groups so I didn't try with the others. Its just (Ctrl + A & B) & (Alt + A & B) Which race? I'm about to look into this now, hopefully this isn't an issue with the files up for downloads.. I don't run into this when testing the hotkeys, as I use A,S,D,F pretty extensively. Would you be able to send me your hotkey file? If possible, mail it to eneyeseekay999@gmail.com? Be sure to add your name to the end of it too and I'll dissect it. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20295 Posts
Fleet Keys is a series of Grid-based Sorry, this is just a massive turn off I never understood the grid system, it implies you are actually staring at the command card and need to look at the position of the icon to know which key to hit.. With a blank keyboard in a dark room and eyes on resources/minimap (about as far away as you can get from command card) or game screen that never made any sense to me. | ||
|
BaRR
Australia18 Posts
On March 26 2013 11:44 eneyeseekay wrote: Which race? I'm about to look into this now, hopefully this isn't an issue with the files up for downloads.. I don't run into this when testing the hotkeys, as I use A,S,D,F pretty extensively. Would you be able to send me your hotkey file? If possible, mail it to eneyeseekay999@gmail.com? Be sure to add your name to the end of it too and I'll dissect it. Its been sent. As for race, I play all three but have only tested these hotkeys on protoss. Thanks for the dedication | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 26 2013 12:02 Cyro wrote: Sorry, this is just a massive turn off I never understood the grid system, it implies you are actually staring at the command card and need to look at the position of the icon to know which key to hit.. With a blank keyboard in a dark room and eyes on resources/minimap (about as far away as you can get from command card) or game screen that never made any sense to me. Hey Cyro let me try to clear it up for you a bit. The big appeal of Grid is because you can play by feel across a more unified control scheme. Treat every command card as being laid across Q-T, A-G, Z-B. It's more of a "touch" way to lay out your hotkeys, and it doesn't ever require you to press keys past 5,T,G,B, so everything is within a couple key's reach. Grid isn't for everyone, and neither is standard. It's true that when you are learning Grid, you'll be glancing at the command card to know what keys to press, but it's not a bad thing. In fact, you'll be glancing there for a bit until you get the hang of it, but you probably won't be clicking on the command card for performing actions, because the keys should never be too far from you fingers. You'll have to learn a setup regardless, and that's how Grid is learned. It's all done by a very localized touch-based way to play, it may not be for everyone, but it's pretty damn cool in my opinion (of course I'd say that though lol). | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 26 2013 12:13 BaRR wrote: Its been sent. As for race, I play all three but have only tested these hotkeys on protoss. Thanks for the dedication You're very welcome, and good news, the Protoss version you sent checks out fine at first glance. You must be trying to use G and B within the default Fleet Keys file. You'll have to go into the hotkey menu and change them accordingly if you're looking to bind the last 2 Camera Locations to G and B. Edit: That was not the problem. Does anyone have trouble making selections when things are bound to S? Is the action Alt+S not working for anyone? If so please let me know! BaRR has been having issues with selecting his Alt+S group, despite trying to change it from Camera Location to a Control Group and searching the SC2HOTKEYS file in notepad for conflicts. So far, he is the only one with this issue, but to be safe, could other people check to see if their Alt+S is working? He can assign bindings in the hotkey menu, and they register as Alt+S, but in-game that command just will not recall what its bound to. | ||
|
crappen
Norway1546 Posts
I know how to type really fast on the keyboard, and you know that on the F button, there is this mark on it, and that is the tail(for balance) in my awareness of the keyboard. But I feel forced to leave that mark because of the area so important in this Fleet setup. How can this be better over time? My point finger, and the middle finger are really dominant in my play, but this Fleet setup, forces me to either leave the F marked button (which is really important), or use the two fingers I have the least control and stamina over (littlefinger, and the ringfinger). Its a shame, because I really liked how I could control group my buildings and camera. I have such a good awareness of the keyboard, that Mothership is really accessable for me by using M as hotkey. My ideas on how it could be improven for me, is to make Spacebar the Alt button, because it makes your fingers rest more naturally since you dont have to leave your fingers crossed so much, while still maintaining a good F marked position on the keyboard. But the problem remains with selecting workers, then using the hotkeys Z, X for building selection. These are the worst buttons on the keyboard actually. I guess I could just move them back manually to B and V. I think it will be great with some personal tweaks. I am greatly inspired in taking a good look at my hotkeys though, as I just used standard  | ||
|
syno
Switzerland150 Posts
As a protoss player i'm having an issue with the camera locations; lets say cam location 1 is on the mainbase, cam location 2 is on your first expansion. As soon as the expansion finishes, i'd transfer my workers asap. So i would hit alt + A to go to my mainbase, select a few workers, press alt + S to go to my expansion and right click on a mineral patch. But that doesn't work, because all warpgates are on the alt key aswell, means everytime you switch to a certain cam location, you automatically have the warpgates selected, which isn't always what you want imho. Again, this is just a small issue i'm having, i absolutely love this layout, thank you! On March 26 2013 18:58 crappen wrote: My ideas on how it could be improven for me, is to make Spacebar the Alt button, because it makes your fingers rest more naturally since you dont have to leave your fingers crossed so much, while still maintaining a good F marked position on the keyboard. Good Idea, i'll try that out later. | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 26 2013 18:58 crappen wrote: + Show Spoiler + I tried it in 8 matches last night (ranked ofcourse), and the problem is that it is a really good idea, but it feels ergonomically horrible in that it forces you to use the QW, AS, ZX buttons so much, and almost none of the most reachable buttons such as RT< FG< VB and those in that area. I know how to type really fast on the keyboard, and you know that on the F button, there is this mark on it, and that is the tail(for balance) in my awareness of the keyboard. But I feel forced to leave that mark because of the area so important in this Fleet setup. How can this be better over time? My point finger, and the middle finger are really dominant in my play, but this Fleet setup, forces me to either leave the F marked button (which is really important), or use the two fingers I have the least control and stamina over (littlefinger, and the ringfinger). Its a shame, because I really liked how I could control group my buildings and camera. I have such a good awareness of the keyboard, that Mothership is really accessable for me by using M as hotkey. My ideas on how it could be improven for me, is to make Spacebar the Alt button, because it makes your fingers rest more naturally since you dont have to leave your fingers crossed so much, while still maintaining a good F marked position on the keyboard. But the problem remains with selecting workers, then using the hotkeys Z, X for building selection. These are the worst buttons on the keyboard actually. I guess I could just move them back manually to B and V. I think it will be great with some personal tweaks. I am greatly inspired in taking a good look at my hotkeys though, as I just used standard I hear your concern, especially about T,G,B, it feels a bit uncomfortable reaching that far over. The problem that I'm finding with the modifier keys is that there is very little choice. Shift is harcoded to perform Shift commands regardless of what Shift is mapped to, Ctrl is so far out of the way that it's almost useless for constant pressing, and Alt is the only one left to work with. I tried in the past to change the keys like you suggested. In fact, I had Shift bound to Alt through a registry change (which is not tournament legal), but it felt much better. Using Alt is the whole reason why I'm able to condense this layout as much as it is. Changing Alt to Space Bar would be a pretty good alternative, but Space Bar is not a modifier key, and will not act like one. Space Bar + Q,W,E,A,S,D don't work unless you re-bind your keys with a registry hack, placing Ctrl, Shift, or Alt or Space Bar. I would be happy if Blizzard allowed some flexibility with their modifiers, as they limit layouts that try to use them by always being jammed arbitrarily into the bottom corners of the keyboard without the ablility to legally change them. Until I redesign this layout on top of Standard to allow for T to be re-positioned comfortably, you have two options if you decide to stick with the layout. You can get a keyboard with a function key, which pushes Alt further to the right, and makes for a more comfortable experience (I know it's a hardware solution, and it isn't encouraged as *the* solution), or you can go into the current hotkeys file, and change T to something like A, and be mindful of it while playing, as it will change A's position in Grid. I don't think this will be as much of an issue when it's remapped over Standard, but only time will tell. Thanks for checking it out, I hope I helped out in some way. On March 26 2013 22:02 syno wrote: I played like 10 games with that layout, i am still kinda slow with it, but it only gets better. As a protoss player i'm having an issue with the camera locations; lets say cam location 1 is on the mainbase, cam location 2 is on your first expansion. As soon as the expansion finishes, i'd transfer my workers asap. So i would hit alt + A to go to my mainbase, select a few workers, press alt + S to go to my expansion and right click on a mineral patch. But that doesn't work, because all warpgates are on the alt key aswell, means everytime you switch to a certain cam location, you automatically have the warpgates selected, which isn't always what you want imho. Again, this is just a small issue i'm having, i absolutely love this layout, thank you! Good Idea, i'll try that out later. Hi syno, I heard a similar concern from another person who was asking asking about retreating with workers in the event of your base being overrun. This isn't some sort of amazing fix, but when you need to transfer workers, provided that your Nexus/whatever is completed, you can press the Next Base key (Caps Lock in the default FK layout), to jump to your base, have it centered, and then right-Click on a mineral patch. It's a smooth action, but it's not immediately intuitive. I am starting to realize that as much as Next base is useful, Previous Base would be a natural addition. A key like that would be so beneficial, yet it's not implemented, and that really sucks. I've been thinking about moving Warp-in to F, as Kaitlin suggested. F seems to be for the most part an unused key for Grid, and only cuts down your Camera Locations by 1 by taking out F. Although in Legacy of the Void, F may become a used key by a new unit, which is the only thing really bothering me regarding that change, but it may be worth it. I don't want Fleet Keys bending around expansions, patches, and metagames, so a Standard-based overhaul constructed in Fleet Keys' image may be the only way to add any amount of flexibility to the layout. | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 26 2013 05:34 Zamiel wrote: Question 1: One biggest criticisms of TheCore is that JaKaTaK is only in the Platinum league and thus is not able to fully comprehend the game at a high level. (Which may or may not be true, depending one's perspective.) What league are you in with each of the three races, respectively? Question 2: One of the biggest innovations of TheCore is, for right-handed people, to move the left hand to the right side of the keyboard. This allows the modifier keys to be pressed with the thumb instead of the pinky. Since the modifier keys are the most frequently pressed keys, it should be intuitive that this will allow for faster APM, less hand contortion, less hand strain, and so forth. In your hotkey layout, you have deliberately forgone this optimization in favor of not alienating people transitioning from the grid layout. Have you ever actually given yourself time to adjust to a hotkey setup in which the thumb is used for modifier keys? If so, can you go into the concrete reasons as to why you didn't feel it necessary to include in your setup? This is a huge omission and I see it as (currently) the biggest flaw with your setup. Answer 1: This is an exciting question, because I can say 2 things here that I always get mixed reactions about. I could say "My account has been sitting in a stagnant, lowly Silver ranking since early last year." Or, I could say that I don't spend time playing competitively on the Ladder. Both are true, so quantify my credibility, knowledge and comprehension according to that. I would say JaK and I have more in common in that sense, as we receive similar criticisms (under high masters=disregard). That's fine. I wouldn't size up the guy's level of comprehension of the game based on his league though. As for my current league position, I won't make excuses, I simply do not invest time competing on the ladders. But you know, I'm totally ok with that, as Starcraft has (since pre-BW) held a comfortable spot in my life as it is now. It serves as a favorite past-time as well as (for a few years now) my favorite spectator sport. If others aren't ok with it, then I am sorry for you or anyone else that feels that way. Fleet Keys is not a job, nor a business of any sort, rather, a highly rewarding labour of love, and an opportunity for involvement in something I really enjoy. Developing it has been a lot of fun! I hope that answers your first question. Answer 2: You're doing it wrong, because thumb on modifiers is right is an oppressive notion that I simply do not agree with. It's not a quote, but it's what I gathered from your second question. I think increased ergonomic design is a huge plus for people with joint problems, and those who fear developing them. Whether their concern is reasonable, or just over-compromising and paranoid is nobody's business to say. If you honestly believe in what you're saying then go the extra mile, and purchase one of these instead of forcing yourself to use a conventional keyboard, and convince everyone it's the right way to do things since it screams proper ergonomics. This device epitomizes your philosophy on unorthodox keyboard usage for the sake of ergonomics, and then some. If it piqued your interest, then take a shot over here where they show you all about it. I think it's one of the coolest PC devices I've seen as of late, and no, I'm not being condescending, I actually think it's cool. Telling me that I essentially forwent the proper way to use a keyboard tells me that we're not going to agree here. For what it's worth, I did try to keep an open mind before deciding to venture into my own layout. I think most people do actually. Fleet Keys for me is a happy medium where I found the most comfort, and I am excited to continue refining it. If other people find it useful as well-- some have and some haven't, then great, at least people are trying to be proactive to find what works for them. You're going to have to accept that the word optimization is completely subjective when you're talking to people on the topic of and preference and what is good for them. | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
Fleet Keys as is, despite many people enjoying it, has a few things about it that are currently deal breakers for people who want even more familiarity, customization, and don't want to work within the confines of a Grid-Based system. I can't I say blame them, as T on attack is something that some may be fine with, and other not so much. I'd like to give players even more choice in how Fleet Keys is set up. So the main concept behind this new Fleet keys system is:
Thanks for the feedback everyone, I will release the first working version of it within the next day or so. I'm pretty excited to release this, as it rounds out Fleet Keys as a hotkey system quite well. Thanks for the support, and be sure to check back for updates! | ||
|
Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
| ||
|
rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
-I use Patrol on Q, hold position on W, and attack on E. -My unit's abilities are on A ,S ,D ,F , and G. -My hand stays on the keyboard like I'm playing an FPS (Shift, A, W, D, spc bar). | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 28 2013 03:39 Kaitlin wrote: Does anyone use the hotkey for 'Move' ? If not, there's no need to have it bound to anything, let alone a decently well-placed key that could be used for something else that is used. I have my Move command bound to something like Num Pad 8, just so it doesn't show as unbound, even though I'll never, ever, activate it. I think Patrol on Q would be pretty sick. Q on Patrol, Hold pos. on W, and Attack on E. The E on attack thing might sound strange, but here's the idea behind it, it's pretty fluid, and quick to execute. Say you want to 1a,2a,3a, you would press 1e,2e,3e, like so: Ring finger: 1, Index: E Middle finger: 2, Index E Middle finger: 3, Index E As far as Alloy's new unit controls go, I'm going to try A,S,D,F bound as the alternate keys of Z,X,C,V (these cover spells/build commands) to make the unit controls as compact, accessible, and familiar as possible. This keeps everything organized, in line with Grid, and keeps your fingers within the 1-3,Q-E,and A-D 3x3 block that harbors a lot of Fleet Keys' current functions. This may not work with well the SCV's repair ability, but they still repair when right-clicked on a damaged structure. This isn't a huge concern, but it will need to be addressed. The best part of Grid that people seem to like, is building construction, unit production, researches and spells. Grid allows you to essentially not worry about any of it, and have your unit controls the way you want. Flexible unit control is a hard thing to smoothly implement in the current Fleet Keys config, and Alloy answers that. As new expansions are released and new units are added, this should stand the test of time by having production additions being added to the command card, and never exceeding the Command Card design Blizzard decided to stick with (the 3x5 block). How does that sound to everyone? Don't hold back with input, I want this to be more accessible for people who want more than just proper Grid. | ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 28 2013 04:31 rpgalon wrote: my hotkey setup is very similar to this except that: -I use Patrol on Q, hold position on W, and attack on E. -My unit's abilities are on A ,S ,D ,F , and G. -My hand stays on the keyboard like I'm playing an FPS (Shift, A, W, D, spc bar). I JUST read that. Ok well it's great we agree about that! hahaha.. It does feel good though, as far as default settings are concerned. Feeling better about this already. | ||
|
Sriver
19 Posts
| ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 28 2013 19:02 Sriver wrote: Which profile should I use when playing random? Hey Sriver, Download all 3 hotkey files, and switch to them based on what you spawn as. There's more than enough time to switch at the start of a match after queuing up your first worker. Make sure to go in with at least one if them set though, or else creating your first worker might be awkward (it will be tied to another layout, and you most likely won't be able to press Q at the start to queue the first worker up. That's about it! Get em all. Switch to one. Switch to the one you are spawned as each game. Edit: I should also note that the Protoss and Terran layouts are almost identical, whereas the Zerg one has a couple swapped keys. | ||
|
TheDougler
Canada8304 Posts
| ||
|
eneyeseekay
239 Posts
On March 29 2013 01:38 TheDougler wrote: I definitely think I can do this one! I use grid (and spacebar to attack) normally but have been wanting a more comprehensive hotkey layout and the core is just too confusing. Fleet Keys (right now) is pretty simple, but with Zerg and Protoss, one word of caution. It's imperative to hotkey your army units, as the Alt bindings for both layouts in their current configuration (which are optional of course), feature Warp-in key and Queens on Alt, in addition to it being a modifier key. This is a blessing to some and a curse to others. The issue players had with it was if you didn't hotkey your units diligently, they'll be deselected when using the Alt modifier key. Personally, I'm used to this, and I find it effective, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees. Thanks for checking out this layout. I'm currently working on "Alloy", an alternate Fleet Keys system that is looking pretty cool. It's a little different than the current Fleet Keys layout, but is far better in my opinion for the average player looking for a new non-Grid-based layout with flexibility. Alloy is Standard-based, and borrows many concepts from the current Fleet Keys system. I'll have the Download File ready for it by the end of the day. | ||
| ||
