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[G] Reactor Barracks Expand TvT

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 20:58:22
June 05 2012 23:11 GMT
#1
Link to my previous guide, 4 Barracks MMM TvP, because I am an asshole who likes to self promote!

Monday, Jun 04 8:10am GMT (GMT+00:00)


Why Go Reactor Barracks Expand in TvT?:

       This build allows for a high early marine count, an extremely safe expansion, and huge defensive and offensive flexibility in the midgame. It is a very good strategy for people who want to wean themselves off of 1-1-1 all-inning.
This build is strong against:
  • Reaper Expands
  • Gas First Openers
  • Command Center First
  • 1-1-1, all variations.


Weaknesses of the Reactor Barracks Expand:

       I would be an elitist and unrealistic jerk to say this strategy is completely invincible, so here is a list of strategies it is not particularly good at dealing with:
  • Proxy Marauder Rush
  • A Reaper that gets in to your base
  • 1 Barracks Mass Marine Expand
  • Mech (Could be just me not being particularly good at dealing with mech.)

       The reason it is weak to Proxy Marauder Rush is that, unscouted, your reactor will be building when the marauder says "Surprise!!" and you are stuck with 1 marine. You have to pull SCVs and it is not a happy spot to be in. This build is good at stopping reapers, but if one gets in your base it often messes up the entire build, you will not QUITE have enough money for every unit when the buildings are finished, nor upgrades, and it gets quite annoying. The 1 Barracks Mass Marine Expand is a strong strategy against this because early game damage is very difficult to do, you are also set very far behind in upgrades. However, sitting back while massively cutting on air units to get your third command center, many defensive turrets, and upgrades ASAP can often put you with a favourable composition to plain old marine balls. Against mech I always try to take a fast third, and this build is very unyielding if you take the third gas at the natural, so it is incredibly difficult to know how to fit it in. It could be my personal shortcomings, feel free to learn the build your own way.

The Build Order:

       In stark contrast to my last build order that is quite loose, following this will make you feel like you are constantly on a deadline, and you will REALLY feel it if you mess up.

+ Show Spoiler +

  • 10 Depot
  • 12 Barracks
  • 13 Gas
    - Put 2 in gas until you have mined 36-40, then pull 1 of them out.
  • 15 OC
  • 16 Marine/Depot
    - Get a reactor after the marine finishes.
  • 19 Command Centre
  • 21-23 Second Barracks (Techlab)
    - Get Supply Depot
    - Put 1 more in gas (Total 2 now)
  • When at 100 gas, Make a factory
    - Put the third SCV in gas, then make your second gas.
    - Depot notation stops.
  • Unless something silly has happened, get the third gas at your natural after siege mode research.
  • Use gas in this order:
    - Combat Shield
    - Tank
    - Siegemode
    - Starport


[image loading]
Your building composition.



      Same as the other guide, I will cover early game, midgame, and lategame with this. There are many slight variations in composition, addon swapping, and gas timing that goes on if something aggressive is coming from the opponent.
There is a lot of attack timing experimentation that I did with this build, so if you see me write something and you think 'how in the fuh--', keep in mind that I actually experimented with that specific attack a lot on ladder and was met with atleast mild success.

The Early Game:

+ Show Spoiler +

       I scout with the 13th SCV being produced, unless the map is gargantuan, in which case I will scout after depot. You want your first marine to be scouting your natural area for proxy barracks, then move him forward to take the tower. Your SCV is looking for gas first, 13 gas, or no gas at all.
  • If he goes Command Centre first, feel free to pull a few SCVs and attack with 5 or so marines, when I do this build I like to have fun an experiment with many weird attacks, this one seems to work

  • If he has a 13 gas, send your scouting SCV to his Xel'Naga Tower to scout for potential reapers. You will always blindly make 1 marauder, just in case. Proceed as normal.
    In this case, proceed as normally as possible, but delay the gas until you have 1 tank out. With this tank you will take all of your marines and 2 SCVs for repairs and bunkers in tandem with combat shield to go kill him.
    If he has combat shields on his marines, you will trade evenly, making it harder for him to defend the followup attack from you, and if he has stim you have just won the game.

  • If you're getting ultra early game cheesed (Proxy Barracks), do not make the stupid time dump reactor, pull out of gas, get a bunker up, you'll be fine. Afterwards you can kind of do whatever you want, I often like to go for a banshee with cloak and sometimes transition in to mech.

  • Against a 1-1-1 Hellion Elevator, you want to be making marauders and getting the tank out as soon as possible, skip siege mode, delay the third gas a significant amount, and get a starport for a potential banshee followup. After your first tank you want to swap the factory and the starport and get a raven if you have any suspicion of the banshee followup.

  • Against a tank based 1-1-1 (be it the marine, tank, viking attack, or the banshee rush into tank contain) Do your build completely normally, swap your starport and your factory for a raven against a banshee, and when you see his tank push coming take your entire army and all of the SCVs from the natural with a good concave and crush his attack. You will either outright win, or be fairly ahead due to double mule advantage.
    DO NOT LET BUNKERS OF HIS FINISH.

  • Against a Thor rush, get marauders in to bunkers and repair them. I think it is even worth pulling out of the second gas to maximize mineral income.


Some simple things to keep in mind when he is scouting YOU.

- If he sees your gas, make the Command Centre on the lowground, and try to keep your additional production facilities out of a typical scan area, you want your build to look as ambiguous and confusing as possible to the opponent.
- If his scout is going up your ramp and you have 1 marine, please do not make the reactor. Queue up another marine to make your barracks have the light animation on, then when the SCV is dead cancel that marine and make the reactor.

      Congratulations, you seem to have survived the early game, let's enter the midgame, either crippled, hobbling on a lame foot with one eye and no feeling in the left side of your body, or with the skill, speed, and deadliness of a sledgehammer wielding Altair Ibn-La'Ahad.


The Mid-Game:

+ Show Spoiler +

      There are two scenarios you are possibly in right now. You have either taken damage, or you have not. Quite obvious and simple, but should be stated nonetheless.

      Taken damage. You just lost X SCVs to attack Y. You likely cannot quite afford the third gas for a while, it is prudent to pull out of that. Skip a tank to make a medivac, and try to lightly pressure his front while expanding and upgrading. Your advantage is going to be in your extreme mobility of small armies with medivacs but still the strong staying power of the tanks. I often make a second factory and get a fourth gas when I feel I have the mineral income to support it, instead of additional barracks. You are now either forced to play it safe in a game of chess, or bank everything on one frontal attack. You won't have the money for the medivacs for the strategy of the situation where you have taken no damage.

-----


      You have done your opening brilliantly. Time to crack skulls, bring the noise, and let the opponent know that you are not happy with his existence and that you will do something about it.

      Its elevating time. I like to attack with 2-3 SCVs 3-4 tanks, a handful of marines with stim and combat shield, and a single medivac. With this you will need to perform the quickest blitzkrieg pushes you have ever performed. Each millisecond your opponent has to prepare a defence reduces your chances of doing damage by tenfold.

       If your elevator is secret for now, meaning that he has no spotting units or depots, lift 2 tanks up, then come back down for the marines and SCVs, set up bunkers and then BAM he'll be in panic mode. It is even better if your low ground tanks get to shell his units as they stumble and trip over themselves to get at the aggression on the high ground.
      However, this is often not the case, so you will need careful positioning of your low ground tanks and you can only lift 1 tank and 4 marines up at a time. Your micro will be taxed getting units into strong positions, but you can still pull off favourable army trades the vast majority of the time.
       In the event he has turrets everywhere, he is covered on all fronts with tanks, and is impenetrable. Go expand to the gold or something. He will be holed up hard. But always keep scouts out for potential move outs and try to smash into his flank if he moves out without sieging.

[image loading]
An example of the cliff push being executed. Notice that the 3 bunkers will add 1200 health points and make up for my smaller marine count.


Consider these possibilites to judge whether or not you are ahead:
  • You provoked an SCV pull. You are ahead.
  • You have held atleast 2 waves of his units. You are ahead.
  • You were caught before you could set up a position on the high ground. You are behind.
  • You traded evenly but have more tanks. You are just ever so slightly ahead, you can still carve out stronger offensive positions than him to gain an advantage.
  • You traded evenly but have more marines. You are slightly behind, it is unlikely that you will be able to attack him or take an aggressive stance.


[image loading]
This is a winning sitation illustrated. See how I expand behind my push? He can not attack me because of my occupation of his base.


      In the event of being ahead, keep drilling the elevator, extend your front, because he has less units to cover the same surface area as you, he will eventually spread himself too thin and lose.

      If you are behind, you need to play uber-defensively. Do not take big risks, rely on your constant tank production and always remember TARSON HOLDS!

       On the slightly unclear situations, where you are slightly ahead or behind, use your discretion, you can obviously cut more corners if you choose defensive strategies.


Entering The Lategame:

+ Show Spoiler +

       I never like giving a guide to the actual lategame, because it is impossibly difficult to describe every single possible situation that can arise. In the lategame, just remember army movement in relation to expansions and you will be fine. This meaning that, if you want to attack with north east, it is good to expand in the east (from the south) because your army will be both defending your expansion and pressuring the opponents.

       Often you'll find yourself in a situation where you are taking 15+ minute thirds, this obviously means that your main will probably be mining out and that you should take a fourth very quickly after the third.

      When the game stabilizes past the midgame elevator aggression, a lot of the game will be based on pressuring or defending third bases. Killing a third base for little to no cost is a winning move. It is essentially taking away every single piece of your opponents chessboard but his king, queen, and pawns. He is still in it, but can only win if you mess up very badly. However, trading an army for a third puts the game in to an inverted pendulum situation, where you may have had a commanding lead but the pendulum swung in the opposite direction after this move and he will be prompted to instantly counter attack. And so the pendulum will keeping swinging and battering you until you or your opponent have nothing left. This is the most exciting and difficult possibility that can come from this style.

      Your upgrades probably started with your fourth gas, meaning they are quite likely to be very late in comparison to your opponent. Make sure that you always maintain a tank advantage to make compensation for this and always have more factories than him. This is a game of chess, you win or you die.


Misc. Reactions:

+ Show Spoiler +

Will come as they come, don't rush me!

[image loading]
Notice how I surrender the low ground to maintain the high, I get tanks out of marine range.



Replays:

+ Show Spoiler +

Pack: http://drop.sc/packs/1064

+ Show Spoiler +

Wins, because I want to showcase this build well.
  • http://drop.sc/191648
  • http://drop.sc/191644
  • http://drop.sc/191649
  • http://drop.sc/191650
  • http://drop.sc/191647



-----

+ Show Spoiler +

Losses, because I want to showcase this build REALLY well.
  • http://drop.sc/191645
  • http://drop.sc/191651
  • http://drop.sc/191646




Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-05 23:11:59
June 05 2012 23:11 GMT
#2
Reserved for me explaining a loss and how to overcome it, might also watch other peoples replays, but those reviews would probably have less pictures.

Loss analysis:

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Watch the minimap with me, I see a marine rush coming by use of the Xel'Naga Tower.


[image loading]
He is killing my command center, buying myself time to get the bunker up, so far this defence is stellar.


[image loading]
One does not simply attempt the reaper expand bust in the face of constant marine production and poor positioning.


[image loading]
In this situation, you do not try and try again.
\

[image loading]
Do not expand thinly when behind, this cost me the game. You need to COMMIT to defending that third, while at the same time having turrets in the main base to deal with counter drops.


       Remember how to calmly deal with marine rushes, and play defensively afterwards until you can get the 'normal' attack with 3-4 tanks and a medivac. Do not be anxious to attack.

Vanchen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
55 Posts
June 05 2012 23:43 GMT
#3
It seems like your 111 tank defense is a little bit lacking. You just say to take your army and a lot of scvs to crush his tank push but against any 'good' 111, they are going to be prepared for an SCV pull and your will be weaker having only been on 2 rax and a factory compared to say a 1 rax FE where you will have 3 rax pumping 5 rines at a time or 2 rines and a tank with siege/viking.
I looked at your first replay and at 7:50 you have 14 marines, 1 tank with combat shields almost done and siege a full 40 seconds away. A typical 'hard' 111 with rushed siege and viking first will probably kill you. You have no map awareness and it's so risky moving out with that small army as you could be up against a lot of things. I ran a 111 against an AI and at 750 I have 14 marines, 2 tanks, 1 medivac and some scvs at your natural with 1 tank and a viking on the way with siege done. Most likely, you are dead in this scenario and at the very least, will have to lift your nat. By getting that reactor, you are behind siege time of a normal 1 rax FE into double gas and you are behind the marine count that you would get with a 1 rax FE into mass rax or thorzain opener. http://drop.sc/192194 <- test 111

The Pros of this strat are probably being safer to FE against stuff like gas openings that aren't tank pushes like banshees or hellion play but I don't think it's enough to warrant the later infrastructure. Also 1 reactored rax usually isn't enough to apply pressure in any situation, even against a cc first where you get double rax and probably a bunker if you see gas opening.
Against reapers won't you only have 1 marine because the reactor is still building? (I might be wrong) I mean, this build is safe against off the wall stuff like reaper hellion into banshee but I feel like it puts you behind unnecessarily against 1 rax FE's or 15cc's. The opening can't put you into a strong position against a 15 cc as there is no way for you to punish it. I think this a good build for lower leagues to feel safer but against a hard one base or econ build, you are going to be behind for making the reactor and getting your tech just later than everything else.
ST_Bomber|SKLGIM_MC|
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
June 05 2012 23:59 GMT
#4
I have lost to 1-1-1 tank pushes on Shakuras Plateau because of the difficult positioning to break, and sometimes if their bunkers finish, but I have never lost to a 1-1-1 on open ground.

The SCV swarm with good micro will ALWAYS finish off his army, I'll rummage around for an excellent example against a GM terran (was rank 4 at the time of playing) where he 1-1-1's me and I do this build.

To your other points, yes you are slightly behind to CC first and rax expand. However, you get tech faster, I do not understand why you think it is later... You can always, always, marine and scv rush a CC first player in the early game and get 2+ SCV kills free and easy.
If a reaper goes directly from the enemy base to yours, you will have 1 marine and #2/3 halfway done, you will likely lose 2 SCVs maximum.

I tried to answer your points, I do not think that you have allowed for any exploration of the build before shooting it down. I also DID talk about how to deal with Thorzain 1 Rax Expand, and how you will not be able to punish it early game, the disadvantages and advantages you have against it. It's in the thread.

Vanchen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
55 Posts
June 06 2012 00:27 GMT
#5
On June 06 2012 08:59 Thaniri wrote:
I have lost to 1-1-1 tank pushes on Shakuras Plateau because of the difficult positioning to break, and sometimes if their bunkers finish, but I have never lost to a 1-1-1 on open ground.

The SCV swarm with good micro will ALWAYS finish off his army, I'll rummage around for an excellent example against a GM terran (was rank 4 at the time of playing) where he 1-1-1's me and I do this build.

To your other points, yes you are slightly behind to CC first and rax expand. However, you get tech faster, I do not understand why you think it is later... You can always, always, marine and scv rush a CC first player in the early game and get 2+ SCV kills free and easy.
If a reaper goes directly from the enemy base to yours, you will have 1 marine and #2/3 halfway done, you will likely lose 2 SCVs maximum.

I tried to answer your points, I do not think that you have allowed for any exploration of the build before shooting it down. I also DID talk about how to deal with Thorzain 1 Rax Expand, and how you will not be able to punish it early game, the disadvantages and advantages you have against it. It's in the thread.


On open ground vs. 111 of course you will crush it vs scvs but that can't always happen. I would like to see this replay . You can't always expect to get 2+ scv kills attacking a cc first without losing at least an scv of your own. The reaper thing probably isn't much of a big deal but won't you be delayed in tech by getting the 2nd rax instead of factory after cc? Just the way ur build went, I thought maybe you could get siege in time for a 111 if you re-arranged your building timings but then you might be vulnerable vs. a 111 hellion drop. And what's the timing of the tech vs 1 rax FE into double gas? If it's similar than won't 1rax FE be better because you will have more scvs? I'm just not sure what the point of the build is, like it can work as a transitional thing but it seems really 'middle of the road' to me, just being super safe but not getting a lot of army or econ.
ST_Bomber|SKLGIM_MC|
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
June 06 2012 00:34 GMT
#6
Here you are: http://drop.sc/108016

This is when I first started the build, then the 1 rax thorzain style just came out and I messed around with that much more, I came back to this reactor expand.

As to Barracks Expand into fast double gas, I have never encountered it.

To give the build a point, it is super safe, like you said, and it is similar to the tank based 1-1-1, but later and with double the units. Exact same thought process behind the attack, get up the cliff, almost always get a favourable trade.
Vanchen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
55 Posts
June 06 2012 00:48 GMT
#7
On June 06 2012 09:34 Thaniri wrote:
Here you are: http://drop.sc/108016

This is when I first started the build, then the 1 rax thorzain style just came out and I messed around with that much more, I came back to this reactor expand.

As to Barracks Expand into fast double gas, I have never encountered it.

To give the build a point, it is super safe, like you said, and it is similar to the tank based 1-1-1, but later and with double the units. Exact same thought process behind the attack, get up the cliff, almost always get a favourable trade.

Alright I hate to be that guy but the player you faced was doing more of an expand 111. 1st. He didn't reactor his rax leading to a weaker follow up push. 2. A medivac wouldve been much better especially since you went FE, no reason to viking against no air units. 3. He didn't pull many scvs and dropped a CC open leaving, if he had like 2 scvs with that push, you wouldn't have gotten the snipes off against the 5 hp tanks.
ST_Bomber|SKLGIM_MC|
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
June 06 2012 01:24 GMT
#8
Well, 1 Month + ago, the banshee rush into tank contain was very popular on the korean ladder, I had a good success rate on doing this SCV pull tactic, and I apologize for not having a replay because I do not autosave them all.
Precise
Profile Joined June 2011
64 Posts
June 06 2012 13:59 GMT
#9
I assume in the build order where it is "15 CC" it doesn't mean to build a whole new command center at 15 supply but to merely go Orbital Command?
bri9and
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States246 Posts
June 06 2012 14:23 GMT
#10
15 CC
16 Marine/Depot
- Get a reactor after the marine finishes.
19 Command Centre


Might want to fix your post.. I don't think you intended to build a 3rd CC at 19..

Or did you?
I don't have time to play with myself
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
June 06 2012 22:55 GMT
#11
OC, I am sorry.
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