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[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 215

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Orgganon
Profile Joined April 2013
Portugal28 Posts
May 05 2013 10:15 GMT
#4281
@lailaiwd

have you checked the vods on youtube on TheCore? you will get a broader idea on CG's and how they're used with TheCore.
either way, if you open the document, in the bottom u can choose the Terran sheet and there u find the suggested CG's also. for example P for CC's and O for production.
as i play zerg can't be of much help there but vods definetly can. (or jak, or some teran player)
youtube/thejakatakshow
hope this helps
Strength lies in the Hand, not in the Instrument - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organon
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
May 05 2013 11:11 GMT
#4282
Take a look at the suggested CGs for your layout. This is what we've come up with as a team for the best possible CGs. Its not perfect, and will likely need some tweaking for your personal style, but its a good place to start.

TheCore 0.7
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
May 05 2013 11:24 GMT
#4283
@Rebel Saint,

Genius. Love it. What about macro hatches?

Does doing this allow us to make option 7 for creep better? I think it might.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
SpoogeCoffer
Profile Joined September 2012
New Zealand51 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 11:53:27
May 05 2013 11:45 GMT
#4284
On May 04 2013 02:02 JaKaTaK wrote:
@Spooge
Which abilities that are on / right now would you shift-queue?


Infested terrans - as an example if you are using the classic "four infestor hitsquad" type shenanigans with four burrowed infestors you will queue up a move then shift+spam infested terrans out. Also there are some instances where you might want to shift+queue up a series of snipes from a distance (preceded by a move).

All in all / is a fucking awkward key for abilities when there are other options readily available. But for these two specific instances I believe that fungal is better on / as there are basically no instances that you'd ever want to queue this after a movement command (though I can certainly envision some circumstances that could call for it but you'd never see it at high levels of play, as an ie some bronzie shift+queuing up fungals or something onto mineral lines), so perhaps neural would be the best on this key but again there are some instances when you'd want to queue a move before a neural.

As for ghosts nuke is no good (generally you'll queue move before nuke). EMP suffers from the same thing as fungal really while you generally won't emp on a movement queue at a high level (instead instant casting it) I can see bronzies wanting to do this. And I believe that snipe will see a bit of use following a move command. The least of these evils would probably be EMP.

For these reasons I believe it's bad to press / with your thumb and so its use should be calculated on the difficulty of having to press it with your index finger.

tl;dr I'm against / being used as an ability key on the basis of queuing up abilities after movement commands.

Edit: Apparently thrusters are also on / this is something that will quite often see movement queuing. Queue your drop to just outside base, queue thruster (to get over static defense) toward mineral line then queue unload. This is I hope you can see very awkward with / having to be actuated by your thumb.

Edit 2: I don't mean to mock your efforts, I love that you're still experimenting with optimisations. It's just that I think you're just heading down the wrong track with trying to use / as an ability key.
Orgganon
Profile Joined April 2013
Portugal28 Posts
May 05 2013 13:25 GMT
#4285
OMG guys!!!! rebelsaint had an eureka moment there! only after reading it a few times it struck me... that actually makes sense and cuts on finger movement!
(actually only after reading ninjury saying it was really good) «-- lazy bastard
Strength lies in the Hand, not in the Instrument - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organon
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 15:22:57
May 05 2013 13:48 GMT
#4286
On May 05 2013 18:39 lailaiwd wrote:
Dear Jak, I just started using the Core and have some questions about the control groups. Right now I have command centers on K and Production on L. My army units are on I,O, and P. I use 8 for upgrades and 9 and 0 for drops. When I tap through these buttons it feels a bit weird though. What do you suggest that I change? I play terran by the way.

How did you get CCs on K? o_o

On May 05 2013 11:19 rebelsaint wrote:
Regarding the Zerg control groups for hatches and inject queens, I have changed my add to hatchery group to be Alt-O (ZRL layout). This way I can immediately set the camera location to the hatchery when I add it. Alt-O-J adds my main hatch and sets my first camera all at once. Alt-O-K for my natural, etc. To reset the group if I ever have to, I picked Ctrl-"." but I never use it and it could probably be anything you wanted. I don't ever accidentally add anything to that group because I have to hit Alt to do so.

Inject queens I moved to CTRL-O.

This can actually work for Terran and Protoss as well by binding Add to CG 1 to Alt+J or Alt+I (TRM or PRM), thus creating the combo of Alt+(J/I)+(O/P/L/;/9/0). I personally believe that the pinky is best suited for this one, especially because the game doesn't let you build workers when Alt is held down (this leaves finger reaction time as the only factor in the decision). I wish I could set an alt for SCV with Alt+I to optimize the opening seconds of the game, and damn it would feel beautifully articulate, but alas.

All this leaves into question is what Ctrl+O should be used for now, if anything.

Oh, and one more thing, I thought of a potential use for the rapidfire which is almost impossible to confuse with hax:
Use it with the build worker command when the game is loading in order to build a worker at the first possible frame. :D
EDIT: Or not. Rapidfire doesn't work with Selection. :/
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
May 05 2013 15:20 GMT
#4287
I haven't had a chance to work out the new "add to hatchery" idea from RebelSaint, but here are my first thoughts:

Alt sucks, do we really want to use it whenever we add to the hatchery CG? I suppose you always want to center it and add the camera location so it doesn't seem to be a big issue, but its definitely worse than Ctrl.

Streamlining the adding of camera keys for bases definitely sounds interesting.

Concerning / as an ability:
I don't think throwing it away completely as an ability is a good idea, but I think that we should mix it in when it doesn't sacrifice functionality in efficient play. I'll be taking another look at / for abilities, especially with the specifics that Spooge mentioned, and put it out in the next patch.
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
May 05 2013 15:26 GMT
#4288
On May 06 2013 00:20 JaKaTaK wrote:
Alt sucks, do we really want to use it whenever we add to the hatchery CG? I suppose you always want to center it and add the camera location so it doesn't seem to be a big issue, but its definitely worse than Ctrl.

That Add to CG command is used 3 or 4 times in the average game... it doesn't have that high of a priority, so you might as well make it harder to mess up (I've added 20 rax to my CC group on multiple occassions...) and make cameras easier to access as well.
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 15:47:44
May 05 2013 15:38 GMT
#4289
@Jak,

For zerg, every time one makes a base hatch, one adds it to the control group and makes it a base came. This requires some combination like:

Ctrl P
Alt K

Notice how alt is pressed anyways.

With rebels idea, one would press Alt P K, eliminating the repetitive movement if the thumb. This is huge! The only time it is less efficient is with macro hatches, but the difference one loses by pressing alt instead of Ctrl for every macro hatch is way smaller than the gain one receives by eliminating one terrible thumb stroke per base, especially once considered that (I estimate) one has three bases per one or two macro hatches.

Here is what would be most efficient IMO. I changed alt p to alt J because 1) j allows great combo ability with the base cams (no base is one the pinkie) and 2) it allows the queen cg to be operated more normally.

Add to cg 1: alt J
Create cg 1: Ctrl shift J
Select cg 1: p
Add to cg2: Ctrl p
Create cg2: ctrl shift p
Select cg2: shift P

I don't know how it will work with the other races, but it necessarily saves an action per base for zerg, and also can eliminate two repetitions (one with the thumb, and one whenever the index is used for a base cam).
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
May 05 2013 16:24 GMT
#4290
@Ninjury
At the same time, adding macro hatches to your hatch CG would be slower that way, since it would require pressing alt instead of just Ctrl. Personally I don't think it's worth it to make that sort of change, it adds complexity for what I see as no gain
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
May 05 2013 16:28 GMT
#4291
Yes, it would be slightly slower, but only at the expense of the more frequenlty used and greater speed difference faster base cams. We could leave Ctrl as an alternate, and use something else for add to cg 2, but I think that's unnecessary. The difference in speed for the amount of times it is done seems negligible to me (when compared to the gains in speed and frequency to using alt for bases).
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
Borskey
Profile Joined February 2012
160 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 18:52:05
May 05 2013 18:51 GMT
#4292
I think Rebelsaint's suggestion is an improvement, but a very minor one. With the way I've been setting up my cams it would save a small amount of time, but I set up my cams during moments where I have nothing else to do anyways.

And it's not just a Zerg improvement either- it works for the other races just as well. Doesn't have to interfere with the current bind at all, since it can just be an alternate bind. Though you could make it the main one if you wished (I know I've had games where I've screwed up my hatch or queen control groups).
Borskey
Profile Joined February 2012
160 Posts
May 05 2013 18:55 GMT
#4293
Oh yeah, there was one other minor weird difference I noticed. Why is "Idle Worker" 7 in TRM instead of Y?
Only thing it conflicts with is "morph to ultralisk", but I think someone using TRM is far more likely to need the idle worker button over that.
Ninjury_J
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada408 Posts
May 05 2013 19:03 GMT
#4294
7 is better than Y according to data doc. That is why it is Y for zerg, because ultralisk gets priority over idle.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."- Sun Tzu
Borskey
Profile Joined February 2012
160 Posts
May 05 2013 19:11 GMT
#4295
Well that's surprising to me, but ok.
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 19:38:13
May 05 2013 19:37 GMT
#4296
On May 06 2013 00:26 Antylamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2013 00:20 JaKaTaK wrote:
Alt sucks, do we really want to use it whenever we add to the hatchery CG? I suppose you always want to center it and add the camera location so it doesn't seem to be a big issue, but its definitely worse than Ctrl.

That Add to CG command is used 3 or 4 times in the average game... it doesn't have that high of a priority, so you might as well make it harder to mess up (I've added 20 rax to my CC group on multiple occassions...) and make cameras easier to access as well.

You mean you only use Add to CG a few times per game? I use it almost every time I have to modify a CG, and only need a hard reset occasionally.
jjakji fan
StillRooney
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden106 Posts
May 05 2013 19:52 GMT
#4297
On May 06 2013 04:37 slowbacontron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2013 00:26 Antylamon wrote:
On May 06 2013 00:20 JaKaTaK wrote:
Alt sucks, do we really want to use it whenever we add to the hatchery CG? I suppose you always want to center it and add the camera location so it doesn't seem to be a big issue, but its definitely worse than Ctrl.

That Add to CG command is used 3 or 4 times in the average game... it doesn't have that high of a priority, so you might as well make it harder to mess up (I've added 20 rax to my CC group on multiple occassions...) and make cameras easier to access as well.

You mean you only use Add to CG a few times per game? I use it almost every time I have to modify a CG, and only need a hard reset occasionally.

I think the discussion is only regarding Nexus/CC/Hatcheries.
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 05 2013 19:53 GMT
#4298
On May 06 2013 04:52 StillRooney wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2013 04:37 slowbacontron wrote:
On May 06 2013 00:26 Antylamon wrote:
On May 06 2013 00:20 JaKaTaK wrote:
Alt sucks, do we really want to use it whenever we add to the hatchery CG? I suppose you always want to center it and add the camera location so it doesn't seem to be a big issue, but its definitely worse than Ctrl.

That Add to CG command is used 3 or 4 times in the average game... it doesn't have that high of a priority, so you might as well make it harder to mess up (I've added 20 rax to my CC group on multiple occassions...) and make cameras easier to access as well.

You mean you only use Add to CG a few times per game? I use it almost every time I have to modify a CG, and only need a hard reset occasionally.

I think the discussion is only regarding Nexus/CC/Hatcheries.

Of course I would fail to understand the overall conversation >.< Sorry
jjakji fan
BruceLee584
Profile Joined May 2013
Canada6 Posts
May 06 2013 00:48 GMT
#4299
Hey just wanted to thank you guys for all your work on this. I've been using the Core for about 3 months now and have gone from platinum league to masters thanks to how much more efficient the game plays with these hotkeys. Proof: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1812861/1/BruceLee/

Thanks guys!
Vanngar
Profile Joined May 2013
United States30 Posts
May 06 2013 03:19 GMT
#4300
I finally got it to display the correct colemak letters on the command card, but I have little idea what I did.
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