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[D] TvP - Mvp's Hellion/Marine Drop Expo - Page 2
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Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
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Picklebread
808 Posts
On May 29 2012 10:25 Dontkillme wrote: I don't like any builds regarding Hellions in T v P, Hellions suck at everything that a toss has :/ Except probes? Also if you didnt know you can shoot and then run back against zealots. Its called kiting o-o | ||
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WhalesFromSpace
390 Posts
On May 29 2012 10:25 Dontkillme wrote: I don't like any builds regarding Hellions in T v P, Hellions suck at everything that a toss has :/ Except probes  | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
1) gas first or not 2) reactor on the rax (after 2 marines) or not Other than that it's just a 1-1-1 on 1 gas with continuous SCV and army production. You naturally end up having 7-8 marines, 3 hellions at the time your first medivac pops out. Should be noted that MKP likes this build very much in TvP and TvT, sometimes even proxying the factory and starport to drop the hellions faster and in a concealed fashion. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
On May 29 2012 10:00 NrGmonk wrote: This build is actually fairly common and very deadly. It was first used by TLO when the game first came out on Scrap Station. Since then I've seen Demuslim, MKP, Supernova, and MVP utilize it. It is one of the reasons you can't blind go 1 gate expo into robo without adding gates even if you scout factory tech. Well, I would be careful saying first, especially since there was so little coverage on korean players in early beta, unless you mean first used in a notable tournament that was accessible by foreigners or something? Anyway, question about PvT. If you go to 3 gate then add robo, isn't the obs a bit late in scouting if terran is doing marine/tank/banshee all-in, or what? What is the proper way to scout and prepare for these, I guess, or is there a little risk either way? Or do you mean maybe you can still go 1 gate robo but the units you make are different or such? | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On May 29 2012 12:05 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Well, I would be careful saying first, especially since there was so little coverage on korean players in early beta, unless you mean first used in a notable tournament that was accessible by foreigners or something? Obviously, that's what I meant. Of course there were probably tons of people who did it before him. Anyway, question about PvT. If you go to 3 gate then add robo, isn't the obs a bit late in scouting if terran is doing marine/tank/banshee all-in, or what? What is the proper way to scout and prepare for these, I guess, or is there a little risk either way? Or do you mean maybe you can still go 1 gate robo but the units you make are different or such? You must go 3 gate into robo to not die to this push. By the time this push/drop hits, between 6:40 and 7:00 I believe, you will have only 4-5 units with 1 gate into robo, but 6-7 units with 3 gate into robo. Think about what you need to stop 8 marines, 1 medivac, and 3 hellions and you'll find that the answer is about 6-7 units. 3 gate into robo can also stop the marine/tank/banshee all-in, but you just can't rush to colossi with 3 gate into robo. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
On May 29 2012 12:23 NrGmonk wrote: Obviously, that's what I meant. Of course there were probably tons of people who did it before him. You must go 3 gate into robo to not die to this push. By the time this push/drop hits, between 6:40 and 7:00 I believe, you will have only 4-5 units with 1 gate into robo, but 6-7 units with 3 gate into robo. Think about what you need to stop 8 marines, 1 medivac, and 3 hellions and you'll find that the answer is about 6-7 units. 3 gate into robo can also stop the marine/tank/banshee all-in, but you just can't rush to colossi with 3 gate into robo. Ok, thanks | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
If you go gas first, is it possible to move out quicker? You get an earlier factory, and can also reactor your barracks which I believe will get you to 8 marines faster if you do it after your 3rd marine or something...(too lazy to calculate it)...any thoughts? | ||
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teamamerica
United States958 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
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derpinator
74 Posts
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GornWood
Germany121 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
This build also build-order loses to 3-4 gate after expo pressure, and it will almost never do (enough) damage to 3gate before robo (assuming 1gate FE). On the bright side, it does build-order win against forge expands. Also, it probably goes without saying, but only do this vs 1gate expos. Edit: Reactor on rax after 2 marines delays your Starport a little bit but leaves you in a lot better position to defend any follow-ups as you can pump 2 marines at a time. Since you will have 8 marines by the time your medivac is out either way I would say that reactor rax is just hands down the best choice. Edit 2: There are some maps where this is actually pretty broken. Close-air meta, close-air antiga, close-air shakuras etc. These spawns will almost guarantee you more than enough economic damage. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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HQuality
2682 Posts
On June 03 2012 05:49 Garmer wrote: it's possible to modify this to make a nice opening mech build mech? yeaaaah... maybe in hots | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
On June 03 2012 05:49 Garmer wrote: it's possible to modify this to make a nice opening mech build I play it into mech in TvP. You survive the early-mid game with tank/marine/banshee and bunkers, then add 2 factories, one goes on the reactor the rax was using and the other gets a techlab. Then get double armory and add ghosts as you take a 3rd. You don't want more than ~5 tanks though, because they are awful in TvP. Instead focus on thor/banshee/hellion/ghost. EMP your own army (thanks, Blizzard) before fights and gl hf. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On June 03 2012 05:26 Starshaped wrote: 1200 master here. I used to do this almost every TvP but it does have its flaws. Specifically, I would only recommend to follow it up with a 1base all-in. If you expand and do little damage with your harass you are in a lot of trouble. If i want to expand behind a 1-1-1 I'd rather go banshee and expand behind it. This build also build-order loses to 3-4 gate after expo pressure, and it will almost never do (enough) damage to 3gate before robo (assuming 1gate FE). On the bright side, it does build-order win against forge expands. Also, it probably goes without saying, but only do this vs 1gate expos. Edit: Reactor on rax after 2 marines delays your Starport a little bit but leaves you in a lot better position to defend any follow-ups as you can pump 2 marines at a time. Since you will have 8 marines by the time your medivac is out either way I would say that reactor rax is just hands down the best choice. Edit 2: There are some maps where this is actually pretty broken. Close-air meta, close-air antiga, close-air shakuras etc. These spawns will almost guarantee you more than enough economic damage. I agree overall, though it's important to note against those pressure builds you can actually potentially base trade. That situation occurred in the gsl finals, so I'd say it's not a complete build order loss against those 3-4 gate pressures after expand. I'm not a huge fan of doing this build if you can't verify your opponent is expanding, though. I think a reactor expand would be the best transition if you can't scout a nexus, rather than continuing with the rest of the build. | ||
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saaaa
Germany419 Posts
just cancel the hellion+medivac and throw down immediately 2 techlabs and the second gas to produce Tank+Banshee+Marine ? | ||
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