|
The way I see it, no matter whether you want to all-in or play macro you should *typically* play as greedy as you can go gain an edge in achieving whatever goals you have for that game. The trick is of course, playing as greedy as possible and being able to fend off anything that might punish you, I personally don't even see it as *greedy* so much as pushing your economy as hard and fast as you can for as long as you can. Oftentimes playing greedy and getting killed for it can be perfectly fine as it lets you know how far you can push it and how much you can get away with, not to mention that playing greedy isn't even all that unsafe as long as you know what you are doing and have good scouting skills.
Playing safe can work fine too though, especially if you feel confident in your ability to win so long as you don't die early or whatever, such as if you have really good micro or strategy to rely upon.
Also I just wanna throw this out there, I think calling greedy play a type of cheese is just utterly ridiculous and I think most people who call greedy play cheese simply aren't very good at this game and don't really know just how many corners can be cut with decent scouting and still be perfectly safe. Like for example, if a few months ago I was taking 3hatches before gas against Protoss I would probably be called an eco-cheeser, yet today I can do it and everyone knows it's a perfectly safe opening and not even remotely cheesy. I don't think I've ever heard a caster use the term 'eco cheese' and I'm highly suspicious that the term is only really used by diamond and below players.
|
You have to mix it up. Thats the most important.
Even Stephano doesnt 14/14 every game in BoX series. (e.g.: 10 pool vs Nestea)
I think its a big weakness of players like Ret and Idra that they never cheese. Or Nony who plays very safe.
So between very good players it reaches an equilibrium, which leads to so-called coinflips.
Lets take a classical cloak vs detection:
- If you never go cloaked units, your opponent can pass on detection and be safe. If you always go cloaked, you can easily be countered.
- For the other guy: If you always get detection, your opponent never goes cloaked. So that money spent gets you behind.
You always to mix it up. Not only between cheese and not cheese, but also between safe and not safe.
|
Don't forget that you have to know how to spot for all-ins and timings. GM and Pros always try to figure out with little bits of info what the opponent is doing. So, their builds are actually a lot greedier than what most ppl would do or have to do!
For example, I once saw Kas play vs a toss player (can't remember exactly, i think it was on recent IEM) and lose a lot to DT's. I remember Day9 speaking of his build and warning about that eventuality, the 7:30 mark. He eventually lost the game.
I have done his same build and lost to DT play , although i had 3 orbitals, they didn't had enough energy (or i didn't control well) for me to be confortable. So, nowadays, i try to get a E-bay and/or save some energy at that point.
Point: Pros make their builds the GREEDIEST possible, as well as the SAFEST possible, as Beastyqt has so wisely posted:D, so when you copy someone's build, remember that they already now their pro's and con's. YOU, however, have to learn them all. My advice would be to start learning all your vulnerable spots and say : "against the possibility of DT's, i will..." "against the possibility of a baneling bust, i will..."
gl and hf
|
greedy play usually is accompanied, by really save scouting. While Save play normally without alot of scouting. At the end one player will waste their resources in scouting and cut corners and the other in defenses against everything. Both can turn out cheaper then the other at the end. So play on the weakness of your opponent or to your strength if you don't know the opponent.
I personally play save and deny scouting without showing my cards, then my opponent can't play greedy, or they have an extreme high chance of loosing by build order.
|
Its a pretty simple question to start with, How much economy can i get and still feel safe? If playing a macro game, the answer should be as much as possible. So i play as "greedy" as i can until i consistently get punished for it. Its just about finding the limits of the my ability and the style im using.
I guess what i'm saying is, its only greedy if i get punished for it. Otherwise i successfully chose the maximum amount of economy available.
|
I think the best way to play "greedy" is by giving your opponent reasons not to attack. This could mean anything from having 3 bunkers up to having cloaked banshees all over, but however you like to play, know that you need to protect your expansions as a first priority. I like to use aggression to cover greed, like in TvZ, the 1 rax fe into hellion banshee fast third is incredibly strong as it allows you to pressure zergs into staying in their bases until they have lair tech, and by then you should have turrets to defend your third. Also, in TvT, its very easy to do marine aggression builds into fast third, then as long as you don't lose your army, you can make a ridiculously fast 4th. The reason this is possible is that with a good marine-medivac army, you cannot be attacked without fear of a strong counter, so your 3rd and 4th are safe.
|
On April 24 2012 09:00 ComBro1 wrote:
I think the best way to play "greedy" is by giving your opponent reasons not to attack. This could mean anything from having 3 bunkers up to having cloaked banshees all over, but however you like to play, know that you need to protect your expansions as a first priority. I like to use aggression to cover greed, like in TvZ, the 1 rax fe into hellion banshee fast third is incredibly strong as it allows you to pressure zergs into staying in their bases until they have lair tech, and by then you should have turrets to defend your third. Also, in TvT, its very easy to do marine aggression builds into fast third, then as long as you don't lose your army, you can make a ridiculously fast 4th. The reason this is possible is that with a good marine-medivac army, you cannot be attacked without fear of a strong counter, so your 3rd and 4th are safe.
Stephano includes a roach aggression that tends to destroy your build. Maybe your build isn't as safe as you think :p
|
In ladder, play greedy everytime. Ofc you'll face some sick all in but in the end, you'll be able to defend it and you will play greedier.
|
You need to be as greedy as possible. Key word there, possible.
At the highest level, as many have said, even the smallest advantages matter, largely due to the fact that, unless one of them manages to procure a slight advantage, they will remain precisely equal due to their perfect macro. However, slight advantages can easily be negated or even countered if the opponent capitalizes, so you must also play as safe as possible.
It's a very delicate thing.
|
On April 24 2012 09:10 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 09:00 ComBro1 wrote:
I think the best way to play "greedy" is by giving your opponent reasons not to attack. This could mean anything from having 3 bunkers up to having cloaked banshees all over, but however you like to play, know that you need to protect your expansions as a first priority. I like to use aggression to cover greed, like in TvZ, the 1 rax fe into hellion banshee fast third is incredibly strong as it allows you to pressure zergs into staying in their bases until they have lair tech, and by then you should have turrets to defend your third. Also, in TvT, its very easy to do marine aggression builds into fast third, then as long as you don't lose your army, you can make a ridiculously fast 4th. The reason this is possible is that with a good marine-medivac army, you cannot be attacked without fear of a strong counter, so your 3rd and 4th are safe. Stephano includes a roach aggression that tends to destroy your build. Maybe your build isn't as safe as you think :p
lol the build is kinda designed to give you ample warning for any early roach aggression, the banshees and hellions serve as scouts as well as harassment, and besides, roaches suck vs banshees . just lift your OC, bunker up, and you'll be fine.
|
Playing safe is a good way to beat a player worse than you. Playing greedy or hyperaggressive is a good way to beat a player as good as you or better.
|
Be as greedy as possible while staying safe.
|
Playing safe is a good way to beat a player worse than you. Playing greedy or hyperaggressive is a good way to beat a player as good as you or better.
I agree with this, playing safe is basically you saying in your head "i don't need to be greedy to beat this guy"/
|
The simple answer is information. You need to have information on what you are up against because blindly going 1 racks double cc into double gas is just as much of a cheese as 6 pool.
|
Mixing strategies is always going to be stronger than specializing in just one. Because SC2 is such a counter-heavy game, if you opponent can accurately predict your behavior then you're in a very bad place.
Personally, when I play a BO3, I like the idea of spreading my strategies across a timeline. I like to go super cheesy in game #1, super greedy in game #2, and fall back on standard in game #3. I like to cheese at the beginning of a BO3 instead of the end, because sometimes I can get my opponent to tilt right off the bat. Even if the cheese fails, the opponent will likely play super cautiously in game#2, which will usually let me get away with a super greedy build. In game 3 I like to fall back on something more cheese-proof, because from an emotional standpoint I hate losing series purely because of cheese. I think it makes good strategic sense too. Because that way it doesn't matter if my opponent pins me as either a "cheesy player" or "macro player"; no matter which route my opponent commits to in game 3, I will be able to edge them by playing to the middle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
