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lordsurya08
United States141 Posts
I'm not sure which builds to use. I like watching pro games and have a rudimentary understanding of SC2 fundamentals, but I don't know how to actually play because the builds the pros use are pretty high-level. When I play I try to replicate the pro gamers' builds but fail at doing so. So what are some good beginner-friendly Liquipedia builds I can use? (ESPECIALLY PvZ as it is my worst matchup) This is what I am currently using PvT: 3 Gate Robo into Colossus PvP: 4 Gate PvZ: 3 Gate Robo | ||
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Odds
Canada1188 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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thehepp
United States67 Posts
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lordsurya08
United States141 Posts
On March 11 2012 08:57 Sated wrote: Since you're in Bronze, you're going to want to do safe builds because it can be hard to read what the opponent is trying to do (because Bronze players don't usually use standard builds). Therefore, I'd suggest these builds: PvT: 2gate Fast Obs or 2gate FE PvP: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Naniwa's_Blink_Observer_Build_(vs._Protoss) PvZ: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/PvZ_2_Gate_FE_10-16 I'm liking this, especially the PvT fast obs. But I'm not sure about the PvZ 2 Gate FE as I don't want to have to play agressive openings. I haven't mastered my macro well enough to be able to do timing pushes. | ||
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paintfive
785 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
1. Start off with a standard 3gate into blink opener. (Naniwa's PvP blink observer build posted above will suffice) 2. For the entirety of the game, all you will do is make workers, make observers, and mass up blink stalkers, all the while chronoboosting your upgrades. sounds easy, doesn't it? I assure you, if you're in bronze league, you're not doing it well. 3. Make sure you never have idle warpgates. As soon as you are able and can afford to warp in a stalker, do it. 4. Never allow yourself to get supply blocked, build preemptive pylons before each warp cycle. 5. Do this while taking bases. Feel free to move out on the map to gain control of watch towers, but do not attack their base head on 6. Move out when you are at a max 200/200 army. While this seems counter-intuitive (hey, this isn't a real build!) this basic concept will apply the skills you need to get out of bronze league. Macro, as listed in every thread on TL, is the basis of improving. The better your macro, the better you will become as a player. The majority of (if not all) bronze league players do not know how to macro. They will rarely, if not never, progress beyond 50 workers, and they will not use chronoboost/larva inject/mules effectively. If you focus wholeheartedly on those core mechanics, you will mass up an army twice the size of theirs in the same amount of time. No amount of micro will matter, you will steam roll them. As you do this, you will easily get out of bronze league. Your basic macro mechanics will improve, and you'll find yourself always making workers, using up your chronoboost, not getting supply blocked, and keeping up on your production. Once you have these skills, you can making any unit you want, start with any opener you want (switch the twilight council for a robo) and you will be able to do so with relative fluidity. Basic macro mechanics will get you into platinum league easily. In any league before then (and probably even up until diamond league) the execution of your build will be less integral than the standard of your macro. edit; oh yeah, get blink o.O | ||
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Bakerman
3 Posts
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HickleStine
Australia276 Posts
On March 11 2012 10:24 paintfive wrote: 4 gate every game till u get to plat +1 Doing a single one base build till you have decent mechanics is a great idea. Then move on to a 2 base build, etc, etc. | ||
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Saber96
United Kingdom62 Posts
Watching and studying high-level gameplay from professional players can be both really insightful and at the same time entertaining, but at (without meaning to cause offense) leagues such as Bronze - Platinum (arguably Diamond), studying these games becomes much less important than one single thing: I agree with your choice to stick to one build per match-up, and in reality, that's all that is really neccesary when it comes to improving from all the way from Bronze straight up to Master, so good job in that regard, and I believe you should listen to the various responses that you've recieved that detail good builds to try and learn. If anything though, I'd recommend trying to simply 4 gate your way from Bronze all the way to Silver. Although initially counter-productive one may think, it actually allows players from Bronze and Silver to capitalise on one of the most important things when it comes to improvement: Refining their Micro, Macro and Mechanics. By repeating the 4 gate again and again, you will get into the flow of macroing your units, and may even start to micro your units whilst macroing, all a result of your mechanics improving from repetition of the same build in familiarity. Of course, when you get to Silver (or maybe Gold and beyond!), then you may want to look at other individual builds. In that case, I recommend: Protoss vs Terran - CecilSunkure's 2 Gate Robo - Fast Observer. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=204010 Protoss vs Protoss - 4 Warp Gate Rush. + Show Spoiler + http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Warpgate_Rush Protoss vs Zerg - 3 Gate Sentry Expansion. + Show Spoiler + When it comes to transitioning from your chosen opening (or if you have decided to 4 gate, then you most likely wont end up needing to transition), I recommend simply going for twilight council then one forge, research blink and (as suggested by the player above) focus on massing an army of Blink Stalkers. This way, you can really push your macro and try to remain under a set number of minerals and gas as a challenge. When you get better and better, you can try to micro while macroing as well, and then eventually move onto Colossus and other more appropriate transitions (as not all transitions work against certain strategies, there are different ways of transitioning for different reasons, but that's mostly Diamond or above level-related play). Here are a few pointers you may want to think about during your practice:
I hope this has helped, and I wish you good luck! :D. | ||
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itsNero
Canada30 Posts
The reason that you're still in bronze is the lack of mechanics I suggest you to practice your macro / micro / multitasking ability. I've already struggle in the Bronze League before and if you're really new to SC2 , don't try to look for ways to get to diamond or whatever on Youtube. if you play a lot, eventually you'll execute the build well enough and that is very important. Try to spend some time watching pro games of strong mechanic players and plzplzplzplzplzplz watch newbie tuesday on Day9TV it really helps | ||
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Dimonrn
7 Posts
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On March 11 2012 11:08 HickleStine wrote: +1 Doing a single one base build till you have decent mechanics is a great idea. Then move on to a 2 base build, etc, etc. This is actually the best advice in this thread. Don't worry about "builds" or "strategy" or even "scouting". In bronze, if you knew how to execute ANY build semi-competently you wouldn't be in bronze. Execute 4gate over and over until you have that build down to the wire. Focus on not missing probes, never getting supply blocked, hitting your warp-ins, spending chrono appropriately, etc. These are basic mechanics you should look to master before all else. Execute any build you want, if you can execute ANY of them properly (even illegitimate strategies like mass queens), if your mechanics are good enough you will get out of bronze/silver/gold with ease. Don't worry about stupid things like "I don't want to get promoted through cheese/all-ins because I won't get better and I will be reliant on cheesing every game". Well first of all, people in silver-plat generally have no idea what they're doing either, so they'll be on the same boat. Second, new builds are much easier to learn if you have good mechanics! tl;dr Execute any build you want, focus on mechanics. Once you have decent mechanics, learn different builds. | ||
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Philipd122
Australia776 Posts
On March 24 2012 12:28 Dimonrn wrote: Question, Im a bronze in the same boat, I can easily cheese my way out but I actually want to be good. I can only fine 3 or 4 build in liqidpeadia for each race? Im sure i just cant find them. Second of all If i just 4 gate blink stalker till 200 till out of bronze then what do I do? So till told otherwise I will spam 4 gate. Wish me luck? There is no point in playing standard macro games in Bronze. People will just not play standard and instead go for gimmicky 1 base builds and other people who simply 4gate. Your better off getting promoted to silver/gold/platinum by cheesing, losing a whole heap when playing standard games, then simply build your mechanics and strategy playing against decent people. | ||
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MyFirstProbe
Netherlands294 Posts
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
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Pixel.
Netherlands287 Posts
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ExodusHydrA
58 Posts
On March 24 2012 17:43 Forbidden17 wrote: This is actually the best advice in this thread. Don't worry about "builds" or "strategy" or even "scouting". In bronze, if you knew how to execute ANY build semi-competently you wouldn't be in bronze. Execute 4gate over and over until you have that build down to the wire. Focus on not missing probes, never getting supply blocked, hitting your warp-ins, spending chrono appropriately, etc. These are basic mechanics you should look to master before all else. Execute any build you want, if you can execute ANY of them properly (even illegitimate strategies like mass queens), if your mechanics are good enough you will get out of bronze/silver/gold with ease. Don't worry about stupid things like "I don't want to get promoted through cheese/all-ins because I won't get better and I will be reliant on cheesing every game". Well first of all, people in silver-plat generally have no idea what they're doing either, so they'll be on the same boat. Second, new builds are much easier to learn if you have good mechanics! tl;dr Execute any build you want, focus on mechanics. Once you have decent mechanics, learn different builds. I disagree, I was beating golds in my time in bronze. I did play a lot vs diamond friends, so I guess I improved thanks to that, but still xP OT: I personally think 4 gate would be best until silver, and then I would start doing builds such as 1 gate expo in PvT, 3gate expo in PvZ and stick with 4gate in PvP, while you watch pro games and day9, and never forget to watch your own replays. My last piece of advice is this: New players tend to not make as many units or probes, because they forget, or they just stop doing anything important at times, at least that's what I see my bronze-friends do, they just not make units even though they have money and supply, they'll have an empty production bar for a few seconds, and then they'll make some units, which leads to high money. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On March 11 2012 11:08 HickleStine wrote: +1 Doing a single one base build till you have decent mechanics is a great idea. Then move on to a 2 base build, etc, etc. That's a really bad advice. You shouldn't start practicing bad builds just because it gives you wins vs worse opponents. You should definitely try to learn good macro-oriented openings from the beginning, otherwise wtf are you going to do once you hit opponents that you can't 4gate any longer? Unless you plan on just 4gating for the rest of your starcraft2-life. Yes it will probably take a bit longer until you move up, especially because you will lose quite some games vs cheese. But hey, that only means that you learn how to deal with this stuff early on, which is of vital importance. To put it this way: if you can't stop a rush from another bronzie, you 100% will fail against a rush of a diamond/master-player later on, if you've never experienced it before. | ||
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naggerNZ
New Zealand708 Posts
On March 24 2012 19:45 sleepingdog wrote: That's a really bad advice. You shouldn't start practicing bad builds just because it gives you wins vs worse opponents. You should definitely try to learn good macro-oriented openings from the beginning, otherwise wtf are you going to do once you hit opponents that you can't 4gate any longer? Unless you plan on just 4gating for the rest of your starcraft2-life. Yes it will probably take a bit longer until you move up, especially because you will lose quite some games vs cheese. But hey, that only means that you learn how to deal with this stuff early on, which is of vital importance. To put it this way: if you can't stop a rush from another bronzie, you 100% will fail against a rush of a diamond/master-player later on, if you've never experienced it before. Who said that you can't learn a 1base build order and still focus on your macro? A 3Gate/Robo is far from being an all-in. If you honestly think that a player in Bronze league can learn a 50 supply+ build order you're delusional. Don't run before you can walk. He's in Bronze. He should simply be concerned with improving his mechanics, and spending hours and hours trying to memorize a FE build order with transitions is not an efficient use of his time. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On March 11 2012 10:24 paintfive wrote: 4 gate every game till u get to plat I did the terran equivalent of this; 6rax into high-gold, then I did Mech for a while, before switching to standard play in all matchups. It took me a while to find a TvT build I liked, though.  The reason I think cheeze that hits at 5:00 or later works, is because you still need mechanics to pull it off, though it is easier than doing something like a 1gate FE into 2base timing. You learn the basic mechanics for your particular race, and you learn how to micro a few basic units. | ||
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Shivvy
Canada37 Posts
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FLiP491
United States124 Posts
On March 25 2012 02:59 Shawp wrote: I can't believe people saying 4gating every game is a bad idea. At the bronze level it's hard to understand what the point of a fast expand build is and even harder to decide what you transition into based on your scouting. He's starting out. Odds are he doesn't even know what an optimal composition versus each opponent's strat is. I 3-raxed my way into gold simply because I couldn't fathom why I would go for a macro game when I can just bumrush my opponent and win. He needs to learn not to miss probes. He needs to learn not to get supply blocked, use chronoboost etc. Once he masters a 4 gate then yes he should move on to more standard stuff. But for now, 4gate every game and enjoy the rushing feeling He's right. 4gate is the central build for protoss. At least, 12/13gate 14 gas 15 pylon then cyb core on gate complete should be automatic. I mean, even at gm level 20 probe 4gate is the go to build on tal darim pvp. It's also a good build to use when scouting double gas. Finally, it's not that easy to execute a *perfect* 4gate with perfect warpins. So if you're in bronze, I would definitely say 4gate is what you want to do. | ||
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tuukster
Finland114 Posts
On March 24 2012 19:45 sleepingdog wrote: To put it this way: if you can't stop a rush from another bronzie, you 100% will fail against a rush of a diamond/master-player later on, if you've never experienced it before. I'm definitely with sleepingdog on this one. There's no point in cheesing your way into plat/dia, and THEN start learning the FE builds when the opponent is much stronger. You are gonna get smashed. I recommend going with solid, safe build orders right from the start. Your mechanics will improve regardless of the build you are doing, so it's better to forget about cheesing every game. Focus on becoming an all-round solid player. PvT: 2gate robo, fast obs PvZ: 3gate sentry expand PvP: 3gate robo ( http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo ) I do recommend that you practice these builds against the computer first, let's say 10 games each build, before you play on ladder. | ||
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Dimonrn
7 Posts
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HeyJude
United States157 Posts
On March 11 2012 08:54 Odds wrote: You're not going to get very far if you cheese every game. As you said, the builds are on liquipedia. He can easily one base himself to diamond. At that point he'll probably have to learn more economy-friendly builds. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
You can, honestly, 4gate your way to Masters. I'd suggest utilising different builds around Gold, when you're good enough to be able to respond to early aggression as a result of a fast expand better, as well as dealing with some long games. One of my most memorable games in Gold was a 45 minute PvT, playing like absolute crap, but still so much fun. Masters is boring in comparison. | ||
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Gamma4
Australia75 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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