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On March 24 2012 19:45 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:08 HickleStine wrote:On March 11 2012 10:24 paintfive wrote:
4 gate every game till u get to plat +1 Doing a single one base build till you have decent mechanics is a great idea. Then move on to a 2 base build, etc, etc. That's a really bad advice. You shouldn't start practicing bad builds just because it gives you wins vs worse opponents. You should definitely try to learn good macro-oriented openings from the beginning, otherwise wtf are you going to do once you hit opponents that you can't 4gate any longer? Unless you plan on just 4gating for the rest of your starcraft2-life. Yes it will probably take a bit longer until you move up, especially because you will lose quite some games vs cheese. But hey, that only means that you learn how to deal with this stuff early on, which is of vital importance. To put it this way: if you can't stop a rush from another bronzie, you 100% will fail against a rush of a diamond/master-player later on, if you've never experienced it before.
Who said that you can't learn a 1base build order and still focus on your macro? A 3Gate/Robo is far from being an all-in. If you honestly think that a player in Bronze league can learn a 50 supply+ build order you're delusional. Don't run before you can walk. He's in Bronze. He should simply be concerned with improving his mechanics, and spending hours and hours trying to memorize a FE build order with transitions is not an efficient use of his time.
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On March 11 2012 10:24 paintfive wrote:
4 gate every game till u get to plat
I did the terran equivalent of this; 6rax into high-gold, then I did Mech for a while, before switching to standard play in all matchups. It took me a while to find a TvT build I liked, though. 
The reason I think cheeze that hits at 5:00 or later works, is because you still need mechanics to pull it off, though it is easier than doing something like a 1gate FE into 2base timing. You learn the basic mechanics for your particular race, and you learn how to micro a few basic units.
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I can't believe people saying 4gating every game is a bad idea. At the bronze level it's hard to understand what the point of a fast expand build is and even harder to decide what you transition into based on your scouting. He's starting out. Odds are he doesn't even know what an optimal composition versus each opponent's strat is. I 3-raxed my way into gold simply because I couldn't fathom why I would go for a macro game when I can just bumrush my opponent and win. He needs to learn not to miss probes. He needs to learn not to get supply blocked, use chronoboost etc. Once he masters a 4 gate then yes he should move on to more standard stuff. But for now, 4gate every game and enjoy the rushing feeling 
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On March 25 2012 02:59 Shawp wrote:I can't believe people saying 4gating every game is a bad idea. At the bronze level it's hard to understand what the point of a fast expand build is and even harder to decide what you transition into based on your scouting. He's starting out. Odds are he doesn't even know what an optimal composition versus each opponent's strat is. I 3-raxed my way into gold simply because I couldn't fathom why I would go for a macro game when I can just bumrush my opponent and win. He needs to learn not to miss probes. He needs to learn not to get supply blocked, use chronoboost etc. Once he masters a 4 gate then yes he should move on to more standard stuff. But for now, 4gate every game and enjoy the rushing feeling
He's right. 4gate is the central build for protoss. At least, 12/13gate 14 gas 15 pylon then cyb core on gate complete should be automatic.
I mean, even at gm level 20 probe 4gate is the go to build on tal darim pvp. It's also a good build to use when scouting double gas.
Finally, it's not that easy to execute a *perfect* 4gate with perfect warpins. So if you're in bronze, I would definitely say 4gate is what you want to do.
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On March 24 2012 19:45 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 11:08 HickleStine wrote:On March 11 2012 10:24 paintfive wrote:
4 gate every game till u get to plat +1 Doing a single one base build till you have decent mechanics is a great idea. Then move on to a 2 base build, etc, etc. To put it this way: if you can't stop a rush from another bronzie, you 100% will fail against a rush of a diamond/master-player later on, if you've never experienced it before.
I'm definitely with sleepingdog on this one. There's no point in cheesing your way into plat/dia, and THEN start learning the FE builds when the opponent is much stronger. You are gonna get smashed. I recommend going with solid, safe build orders right from the start. Your mechanics will improve regardless of the build you are doing, so it's better to forget about cheesing every game. Focus on becoming an all-round solid player.
PvT: 2gate robo, fast obs
PvZ: 3gate sentry expand
PvP: 3gate robo ( http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/3_Gate_Robo )
I do recommend that you practice these builds against the computer first, let's say 10 games each build, before you play on ladder.
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Hey, when I 4 gate a Terran since im only using one build, all they ever do is barrack up and have like 4 marines out and can stop 10 stalkers of mine then sending me into mid game at which that point they get tanks and pretty much tear me down over time. I know 3 gate robo with immortal is a easy counter if they gas before barrack but Im trying to learn basics I ussally go 3 bases by the time im defeated and no supply left and not blocked.... Ill watch the repeat and my armys ussally bigger but they can still rip me into shreds... Help?????! Olus how do i give you guys a link to my videos? So u can watch?
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On March 11 2012 08:54 Odds wrote:
You're not going to get very far if you cheese every game. As you said, the builds are on liquipedia.
He can easily one base himself to diamond. At that point he'll probably have to learn more economy-friendly builds.
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Expand, expand, expand... except in Bronze. I Forge FEd while on a smurf in Bronze and every time I got all-ind. No Terran or Protoss ever expanded in the first 15 minutes, and Zergs rarely went to 3 base.
You can, honestly, 4gate your way to Masters. I'd suggest utilising different builds around Gold, when you're good enough to be able to respond to early aggression as a result of a fast expand better, as well as dealing with some long games. One of my most memorable games in Gold was a 45 minute PvT, playing like absolute crap, but still so much fun. Masters is boring in comparison.
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4 gate every game, get to gold/plat then use proper builds
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As you can see, there are two schools of thought on the matter. "Focus on macro from the start, otherwise you'll get your ass kicked later" "Start by learning to rush, build basic mechanics and learn mid-late game later". Both of these are solid. My own recommendation is to do one of those. Either 4-gate every game, or follow the macro builds suggested in this thread. One may be optimal, but the important thing is to pick ONE, and stick with it. Do whichever one you personally think is more fun, and if 4-gating is fun for you, you are not a bad person. (Though many on ladder may disagree with that)
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EPT
