EPTi need help NoyZ 304
video's wil be up in a hr
[H]Need help getting out of bronze
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
i need help NoyZ 304 video's wil be up in a hr | ||
|
zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
| ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
likwidstylez
Canada14 Posts
| ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
| ||
|
OriginalBeast
United States709 Posts
| ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
Hurry it up or this thread will be closed veeeery soon :/ | ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
DemonDeacon
United States158 Posts
memorize all hotkeys for zerg step 2: read the liquipedia page on zerg: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_Strategy step 3: pick 1 build order for each match-up from liquipedia (zvz, zvt, zvp) and only do that 1 build every game | ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Kui
United Kingdom88 Posts
| ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
Sure, you may have a few build order losses here and there, especially in ZvZ, but macro is the most important part. A speedling expand and proper scouting should be enough to stop most cheesy early aggression like 2rax and 4gate in the bronze league. Honestly I lol when my opponent 2rax me or 4gate me because its an easy win if you know when they are going to attack you... If you dont feel safe make a spine crawler and scout | ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Parodoxx
United States549 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:18 DemonDeacon wrote: step 1: memorize all hotkeys for zerg step 2: read the liquipedia page on zerg: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_Strategy step 3: pick 1 build order for each match-up from liquipedia (zvz, zvt, zvp) and only do that 1 build every game This is the best bet for a player in your position. find 3 builds that are safe for each match up and try to do them as best as possible. I would suggest 14/14 zvp helps to deal with 2 gate prox and helps a lot with 4 gate 14/14 Zvt easy to hold 2 rax with this open as well as reaper builds (make 8 lings quickly to hold 2 rax 2-4 if you know its not 2 rax) zvz has a lot of options but I feel 14/14 might make it hard to defend 6 pool/7pool at that low of a level. a 10 pool build or a 12/12 should hold you just fine against zerg cheese. (low level zvz tip, it takes 2 banes to kill 1 bane or as many are in his group so if you see 5 bunched up banes coming at you send 2 of your own at the center most baneling.) As a side note these are not the best opens for these matches but are very viable in masters and really helps to hold cheese, once you hit silver and the all-in slow down you might reconsider some of these opens. best of luck and macro hard. | ||
|
DemonDeacon
United States158 Posts
also, i don't know if this applies to you but typically bronze players dont have the mechanics or the game knowledge to properly counter what the other player is doing anyways. in bronze its more about playing vs yourself (not making any mistakes and improving your mechanics) rather than playing your opponent | ||
|
DemonDeacon
United States158 Posts
| ||
|
Teoman
Norway382 Posts
On February 24 2012 04:50 OriginalBeast wrote: The most help I can offer is that bronze players get stuck in a mindset and don't change it like "I don't think it's worth getting stim because it hurts my units" so they never get stim, when stim is good. Thats actually very true and good tip. Remember when i was young and spells like consume and stim were horrible. Cant hurt your own units you know. But the general mindset should really be hard bolted in. When you know you are not good at a game, always be open to new things, and just experiment with what higher level people say. Never get into mindsets like the above post said :D And of course "generic macro more comment". | ||
|
Trerror
3 Posts
Just focusing on these mechanics, and mass-producing units (ignoring strategy, counters, etc) got me to the silver/gold level. Then I started worrying more about strategy and builds etc to bump me up to plat. Good luck! | ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Trerror
3 Posts
| ||
|
DemonDeacon
United States158 Posts
1. you need to read the liquipedia article on zerg and choose a build order to follow vs each race because your build order is really bad. also, keep on top of your macro. you should make it a goal to never have more than 500 minerals/500 gas (most top level players never have more than 100/100 unless they are saving for something 2. you need to prioritize your actions better, for example: at the beginning of the game you take time to send your overlord to scout when you have extra larva/minerals sitting around. you need to use the minerals ASAP: getting extra drones out as soon as you have enough minerals to buy them. You should spend all your minerals, and then use any extra time to micro your overlord for scouting. Typically, in low-level games MACRO>MICRO. You also micro your drone to take minerals from the closest mineral patch when you should be using larva to make drones. I don't know if you think drones should be microed rather than macroed or if you were just slow in your mechanics but you really need to prioritize where you use your apm. Also, you attack the enemy probe with like 5 of your drones, which causes you to lose a lot of mining time. I would say ignore the probe or at most send 1 drone to follow him around. Wait until your zerglings are out and have them attack the probe rather than wasting precious mining time using your drones. Finally, you spend half of your apm following your army around when you could just click on the mini map and send them where you want them to go. You really don't need to babysit your army THAT much. Send your army somewhere, go back to your base to macro/tech up, and then go back to your army (it helps a lot to hotkey your army as 1, which you don't do a lot of times) Also, when you lose your overlord at the beginning you make 3 at once instead of making just enough to get your supply open again, you could be using those extra minerals on other things (like getting your expansion up earlier). Prioritize your decision making to get the most ahead in the game. babysitting 8 zerglings is not nearly as important as building at home. 3. You need a game plan that makes sense. You opt for constant zergling pressure early game against his forge fast expand but you don't get ling speed until really late. If you want to do early pressure, use all the tools at your disposal to optimize that (again, read liquipedia) 4. You can't just play with zerglings the first 20 minutes. (although, if you massed properly you probably could have won with mass zerglings anyways because your opponent was terrible). If you are going to pressure early vs a protoss who ffe'd you should maybe pressure with zerglings really early, tech up to roaches and do a roach/ling push later. Zerglings are not cost efficient vs zealots. You may have heard of unit tiers. Zerglings are a tier 1 unit and you cannot win most games using only tier 1 units. You have a lot of potential: your apm is good, you have good micro (you know how to surround enemy units, etc.) but your decision making and macro is what is holding you back. EDIT: i think one thing you should consider is just sitting in your base and building units for the first 10-15 minutes. You can build an army and put defense up but just build up an infrastructure and an army (i would say try to max out at 200/200) before you try to move out and attack. When you use little groups of units to attack here and there it doesn't really do much damage and you use so much apm on your attacks that you fall behind severely with your macro. Sure, you snipe his robo a bunch of times but what about your own tech structures? it doesn't matter what you sniped because you don't have any tech of your own anyways. EDIT: Game 2 your build was a lot better but you were still floating +1000 minerals constantly. put down your 4 gas earlier and tech up to more than just ling/baneling. You built a lair, so get mutalisks for harrassing/sniping tanks or go for a burrowed roach timing or something. If you aren't going to use your lair tech then don't get it, just go for a roach timing. Also, remember to hotkey your army. i typically use 5-0 for buildings/queens and use 1-4 for different armies/scouts. when you got dropped it took a lot longer to react because you had to click to your army, select them, and then click to where the drop was rather than just pressing 1 and clicking. You also over-saturate your bases. you should have 22 drones per base (16 on minerals, 3 for each gas) and then just mass up on army units. 15 minutes into the game you had 3000 minerals and like 800 gas. use that to build an army big enough to do damage rather than send 10 lings and 10 banelings to die. a good thing to do is to sacrifice 1 ling at the front of their base to see what their unit composition is and make sure you have enough to do damage. You wait way too long to tech up and then even when you do, you don't even use your mutas (till they very end when they just clean up scvs/floating buildings). Also, with your extra bases you dont make a queen so you are missing out on zerg's biggest advantage: mass ability (when you lose your army you can remake it immediately) Again, this is why liquipedia is such a good help. find a build where you can get to 2-3 bases safely with a proper drone count, and then just mass units constantly until you break your opponent. | ||
|
romelako
United States373 Posts
there are so many resources out there to help you out. i suggest dapollo's guide to zerg. it's on youtube. | ||
|
eParadox
Canada132 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:23 Noyz wrote: I'm Bronze and i know that that wont work every game its better to react to your enemy and builld off of unit's you see when you send a ling up and scout with your over seer/ over loard I think you just solved your own problem. | ||
|
RaiZ
2813 Posts
On February 24 2012 07:31 DemonDeacon wrote: ok so just after watching the first replay... your apm def. isn't the problem and you have pretty good micro.. BUT: 1. you need to read the liquipedia article on zerg and choose a build order to follow vs each race because your build order is really bad. also, keep on top of your macro. you should make it a goal to never have more than 500 minerals/500 gas (most top level players never have more than 100/100 unless they are saving for something It's very common to see pro's having more than 1000 minerals, you're way too nitpicking here i think... I mean pro's zerg that is. | ||
|
Janders
Mexico222 Posts
| ||
|
SadCheese
11 Posts
I watched some no name zerg and went back to playing and went from bronze to high plat in one day. Diamond took another week. Now if I could just stay in masters without getting my ass beat. | ||
|
ETisME
12387 Posts
14/14 is a pressure build, let you have total map control for a long period of time. 15 hatch 15 pool gives up this map control in exchange for better economy icefisher build is a solid all-around build that requires good micro and also very economical. Drop a macro hatch when you think you can't macro hard enough (if you are going ling heavy, you definitly need a macro hatch and try to drop it early) And double upgrades whenever possible. You can just win tonnes of games with pure upgraded lings till late game but you will need good upgrades | ||
|
Noyz
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
| ||
|
DemonDeacon
United States158 Posts
On February 24 2012 11:28 RaiZ wrote: It's very common to see pro's having more than 1000 minerals, you're way too nitpicking here i think... I mean pro's zerg that is. yeah, like i said you should have less than 100 unless you're saving it purposefully. Unless you're saving up to get mutas or something as soon as your tech is ready you should ideally have less than 100/100. In the case of this player, he wasn't saving up for anything when he was pooling minerals, he just wasn't spending it efficiently. Good thing to note though... | ||
|
boSeok
Canada177 Posts
build overlord at 9 build drones up to 13 build pool at 13 1 more drone build gas at 13 put 3 on gas build 2 more drones build queen build roach warren build overlord. save up 7 larvae with inject from queen. build roaches and rally to opponent Micro if you want but constantly inject and build roaches. Every overlord for each inject so. hatchery then "s"r"r"r"r"v" contanstanly do this and you will win. | ||
|
Darksquad
United States5 Posts
On February 27 2012 07:41 DemonDeacon wrote: yeah, like i said you should have less than 100 unless you're saving it purposefully. Unless you're saving up to get mutas or something as soon as your tech is ready you should ideally have less than 100/100. In the case of this player, he wasn't saving up for anything when he was pooling minerals, he just wasn't spending it efficiently. Good thing to note though... Sorry but this is just wrong. 100 is a ridiculously low (or high, I guess) barrier to aim for, even Code S players aren't even close to that efficient past the first like 5 minutes of the game. IMO aiming for a specific number at all times is dumb, because how much is appropriate depends on the current state of the game. 1000 minerals on 1base is too much, but if you're on 4base then 1000 minerals is actually quite low. If you're in metal leagues I would aim for 500 x # of bases. If you exceed that number then immediately drop a bunch of units, if you're not sure what to get just get whatever the most generic unit is, or if you're already making as many dudes as possible right then, immediately drop a bunch of production buildings. | ||
|
mhsMILKe
United States14 Posts
| ||
|
TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
First, perfect a 1base roach rush (When I say perfect, I don't mean practice for 1 hour. Use it for a week or longer) Second, plan a time to expand AFTER your initial roach rush. Third, work on a follow-up 2base roach push you can do and make sure you have the same amount of roaches every time. | ||
|
AGIANTSMURF
United States1232 Posts
play 10+ games a day, watch each replay and compare it to a pro game. Find out what you missed out on and where you can improve. Try your hardest each and every game and you will eventually get out of bronze | ||
|
weikor
Austria580 Posts
-> they mange to make 80+ workers, and their income is just insane but doesnt match their Larva / Gascount to make the units they need at the moment -> They are multitasking / microeing different things and cant spare the APM to macro perfectly all of wich arent really bronze league problems. My advice to you is just practice practice practice. If you lose to cheese, you can be sure theres a thread or a video up on youtube on how to deal with it. If your micro isnt good enough, practice micro. | ||
|
Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
The fact that ctrl + number assigns a control group, pressing the number recalls that group of units, shift+number adds selection to an existing (or non-existent) group, shift+command queues an action, right click automatically sets a rally point, etc.. Obviously it's also very important to have all the commonly-used production/command hotkeys memorized and make use of them. Once that's all handled, until you get to diamond, there's not a whole lot of tactics or strategy that matters. All you need to do is have excellent mechanics, and both know and perform basic unit counters. This step of macro can take a bit of time, but it's mostly just plain old practice. While I wouldn't say it's [i]necessary[/] until at least platinum, knowing and mastering a few major build orders can be extremely helpful, as it makes macro MUCH easier. | ||
|
PlacidPanda
United States246 Posts
| ||
|
Hibernicus
Finland10 Posts
If the league you're in isn't the most important thing for you, and rather you want to improve as a player, then I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that your macro probably isn't top notch. As a zerg player, you can easily get to gold/platinum just by macroing decently and then when you get to 200/200 (which you'll always get before your opponent if your macro is good enough) box your units and a-move into their base and keep on macroing. The reason I'm saying this is that you can start memorizing build orders that grandmasters use, you can start working on advanced strategies to counter whatever units your opponent is going for, or you can practice micro to make the most use out of your units. But that is all absolutely worthless if you forget to inject and build units for 2 minutes or you try to play a long macro game with 2 bases against a 3 base terran. TL:DR Focus on macroing, you're gonna go up in leagues very fast. | ||
|
Natespank
Canada449 Posts
Just have fun and improve your play in every aspect. Being bronze, there's dozens of ways for you to improve a huge amount. You could pick any of them. The most important thing is to just have fun. A good way to learn your race though: go to the map "unit tester" by killer and just mess around so you know that "for x resources each, unit A beats unit B" etc. | ||
|
Crazycraft
29 Posts
Just had this exchange after a TvZ. NoyZ: lol NoyZ has reconnected. You: lolz? NoyZ: you have to be !@#$ to be #1 and not on silver hahaha love the marien marader haha your !@#$ bra hahaha You: i'm not sure I understand. i just won? NoyZ: cause you ran guys into my base lol You: don't blame your opponent man, you won't get better that way NoyZ: i out macroed and out microed you You: but I won NoyZ: na your !@#$y casue you cant play right haha lol you would have been destoryed in a real match hahahaa you did the same build for 3 games in a row You: welp NoyZ: haha hahahahahahaha lol You: deal with it *sunglasses* NoyZ: your !@#$ haha lol !@#$ty !@#$ !@#$ hahahahaha lol your bad realy bad You: you are cracking me up right now man NoyZ: horrible terible i know your !@#$ i would laugh at my self to hahaha rofl hahahaha You: lol okay dude, I'm gonna go win some more matches by running dudes into dudes bases enjoy your night NoyZ: glhf with that haha go loose to a 6 pool feg haha | ||
|
Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
On February 24 2012 05:59 Teoman wrote: Thats actually very true and good tip. Remember when i was young and spells like consume and stim were horrible. Cant hurt your own units you know. But the general mindset should really be hard bolted in. When you know you are not good at a game, always be open to new things, and just experiment with what higher level people say. Never get into mindsets like the above post said :D And of course "generic macro more comment". You don't need stim to get out of bronze. U do something as retarded as 1 rax expand, make non-stop marines, and non stop scv production, add barracks when you can afford it, keep your money low, don't get supply blocked and attack with every 20 or so marines and you'll still probably get out of bronze. | ||
|
virpi
Germany3598 Posts
1. learn the basic openings for each matchup (hatch first, pool first, speedling expand and the variations) 2. put emphasis on hitting the injects and producing a shitload of drones without getting supply stuck 3. scout your opponent frequently and try to react on what you see (in the beginning, you're basically massing counter units) 4. use hotkeys for EVERYTHING, without proper hotkeying you'll never be able to develop mechanics. 5. don't forget upgrades. zvt on shattered temple: - 15hatch 15/16 pool is the best opener in almost every situation. don't open pool first in zvt unless you wish to allin your opponent. a positive side-effect of that opening is that you can build 2 queens simultaneously when your natural finishes. - ok, the terran is really, really bad. - DON'T build defensive structures that early. you only need early spines, if you're facing intense marine aggression - positive: you seem to know that you need drones. even though your queen timings are off, you're still making a lot more drones than your opponent. - you have to scout more often. (drone / ling / ovi) - DON'T build that many zerglings that early, unless the terran is really pressuring you. - The destructible rocks have that name for a reason. Use your lings to take out the rocks. Building the hatch next to them is kinda...stupid. - you have 7000 overmins now. don't hesitate to attack him! with a superior economy, you have to trade armies. if you don't attack him, the game lasts forever... another risk is that he could possibly build up a deathball. (which won't happen here, because the terran is terribad) if you have too much resources banked up, just build hatcheries everywhere. - use your mutas ffs - your creep spreading style is awkward...why do you clump the tumors? spread them out! - ok, now you're finally winning... summary: you've got basic knowledge about the game, but your macro and multitasking is non-existent. giving advice is kinda hard...just watch some pro replays to get an idea of how zerg is being played properly. please post replays of LOSSES. winning against scrubs doesn't say anything about your skill level. zvp on metalopolis - what the... you're posting a 7pool game? seriously? how do you expect us to help you, when you're posting stuff like that...but ok, I'll watch it anyway. - you almost lose 2 ovis to cannons. you attack his nexus, which cannot work. at least try to attack his probes, because he has got lots of them. your only chance to win with an early pool is by dealing economic damage. - now you continue to mass zerglings, even though he has got 3 cannons up. this CAN'T work. basically, you've got only one choice: drone like crazy and hope to catch up eventually. (which won't happen if your opponent is competent enough) - hm, now you have more drones than him... expand earlier. and DON'T take 2 geysers. even if you want to 1base roach him, 1 geyser is enough. - my brain begins to hurt. why are teching to lair? and why aren't you doing anything after lair tech? (e.g. building lair tech buildings...) - I fear that you'll win again, because your opponent splits up his tiny army and refuses to make probes. - why are you building spores in your main? you have scouted him. you know that he doesn't have a stargate. and you also know (at least I hope so), that the spores won't prevent any kind of prism harass, because he can land the prism outside the spore's range. - you don't have any tech, which will eventually cost you the game. - mutas into basetrade...won't work. - didn't work.  summary: meh. terrible opening, lots of bad decisions, no macro, no tech. I also realized that you're manually selecting your eggs to set rally points. given the fact that your game knowledge and apm are kinda low, this is just a waste of precious clicks. three things to do for you - macro macro macro - hotkeys - pro replays | ||
|
XDragonlight
Canada4 Posts
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=256459#disc This guy was silver, and I beat him. Looking forward to an analysis! ^_^ | ||
| ||
