• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:52
CEST 16:52
KST 23:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles2[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China8Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL64Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
SC uni coach streams logging into betting site BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 701 users

[H][L] Help with Baneling Bust T v Z

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Licks
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2 Posts
January 17 2012 19:28 GMT
#1
Hi everyone,

First time poster here, long time lurker!

I've been having trouble with baneling bust recently. Even if I scout it or expect it and prepare for it I just fail miserably at stopping it. Here is an example of a game where I thought I was prepared for it but didn't go my way:

http://drop.sc/94179

Should I stay on one base untill I get more tank? I feel I need to expand ASAP since my oponent will out macro me if I don't.

Anyway, thank you in advance for the help.

P.S. I'm french so sorry if my english is bad
Restrider
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany129 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-17 19:43:07
January 17 2012 19:40 GMT
#2
If the Zerg is 1 basing, it's obvious you have to survive the bust by staying on one base yourself. As the Zerg is kind of All-In you will be in a good position after you successfully survive the bust, even if you are on one base, too.

If the Zerg is doing a bust on 2 bases it gets kind of tricky for me too, I have to admit. Especially on maps with wide open Naturals. Usually they scout my attempt to expand quite fast and decide to make a 2 base aggression (baneling/roach/ling). Hard to hold imho, even with several bunkers.
Generally I would suggest to get tanks and focus the banelings or get a Banshee and try to kill the banelings, when he is out on the map or morphing them somewhere outside of his own base, where he can't defend them with queens.

As I usually play a 1-1 marine (with stim/shield) double medivac drop after a 1 Rax gasless FE, these busts kill me frequently, because I don't have enough tech to deal with such attacks costefficiently. I guess you have to get the info early enough to decide to tech up, in order to get tanks.

€: Removed typos and mistakes.
Flannelz
Profile Joined September 2011
United States14 Posts
January 17 2012 19:52 GMT
#3
Your problem has nothing to do with his composition. In fact, that wasn't even a baneling bust.

You sit on one base for a long, long time with nothing to show for it. You start a command center @ 8:30, this is too late for any sort of standard play. The Zerg gets 2 base off a ~15 hatch and by virtue of a that, he has a higher income and can out produce you.

Get a build off a Day9 daily or some thread, and that will help you.
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
January 17 2012 23:34 GMT
#4
Hello,

Did this little video for you, I do echo the idea that your composition wasn't really the issue, but more overall strategy and macro capacity.

Take a look and tell me what ya think.



EnderSword Bronze-Silver-Gold Analysis Channel
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
Licks
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2 Posts
January 18 2012 02:27 GMT
#5
Thank you for the feedbacks guys! Oh and thank you for that video! Didn't expect something like that. Sounds like I have a lot to work on. Thx!
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
January 18 2012 02:58 GMT
#6
If you have another interesting replay down the road, shoot me a PM
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
xTrim
Profile Joined April 2011
472 Posts
January 18 2012 11:22 GMT
#7
OK.... so here goes my advice... i'm a high masters terran, and the only times i am 2-base busted are the ones explained below..

first an analysis on what "map control" is:

- Map control is not only having your units out in the map giving vision. Exerting map control is a state of the game when one player limits its opponents choice regarding whether he should move out or not/how many units he needs to make in order to get aggressive and not get crushed by your "unknown" force/etc. Therefore, by having map control you usually deny zergs ability to all-in you without you having a glimpse of what is going on. By not exerting map control you give zergs the possibility to do all sorts of stuff without you even knowing.

A rushed siege tank build order does not give you any map presence at all. Period. There are 2 builds that gives you good map control, and they are reactor hellion FE and 2 rax pressure FE (this one I wouldn't recommend, because after your marines are dead you lose map control...). There was a very good thread explaining the details of the "Standard reactor hellion play in tvz".

-----------------------

- Secondly, scouting: It seems you are silver league player, so don't get overwhelmed by all the things you have to do... Believe me, I have troubles with scouting, army movements, engagements, composition... All the time! There's always room for improvement. So by scouting I mean you have to check: is he pooling before hatching? how early? is he going hatch before pool? what is his pool/gas timing after that? is it taking too long to make a pool? maybe a greedy 2x hatch first? is he researching speed after hatch first - pool - gas? did he take off the drones after that? many times zergs can forget to take drones out of gas after 100 gas to start researching speed, but always keep in mind that if drones are not pulled back there's always the possibility to see fast gas units being produced (banelings, really fast lair tech, roaches, etc)...

In this game your zerg opponent did not pull his drones off gas, so you, once again, had no clue about what was going on. Had you had scouted him around 4 mins (where ling speed is not done yet, so you can sneak a SCV to his base) you'd have seen the baneling nest. By using a reactor hellion opening, you can delay the all-in or even completely avoid it. If your hellions get shooed away (best case scenario, so they fight lings after the banes bust the front)/cleaned up (horrible, horrible case) by a nasty number of lings, then you have a good chance that the all-in is coming, and have enough to hold it.

--------------------

- Thirdly, as I mentioned, the only times I was busted were when I had no map presence... Simply put, zerg is free to do whatever they want if you give them map presence. I was surprised that when I was in low diamonds I'd face zergs and they had 4 bases in 15 minutes with 80 drones. I thought - "how the fuck can I stop that?".. But that was lack of map presence... If you deny that to zergs, they will have to think much more about either droning or making an army, because one wave of drones that are not army could mean winning or losing the game.
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
January 18 2012 23:09 GMT
#8
The map presence and scouting just go so well against zerg for so many reasons...it helps you get out of the 'under siege' mentality...It lowers the time required for you to do a cross map push, and it can help you clean up Zerg creep off the map.

Ask yourself every minute or so 'Do I know what he's doing, and do I know where his army is?' if the answer is No to either, try to find out.
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#43
WardiTV1411
OGKoka 547
Harstem435
IndyStarCraft 263
Rex158
CranKy Ducklings130
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 547
Harstem 435
mouzHeroMarine 269
IndyStarCraft 263
Hui .222
Rex 158
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2763
Jaedong 2340
Flash 2210
EffOrt 916
ZerO 717
Hyuk 681
Soulkey 514
Snow 500
actioN 459
Larva 436
[ Show more ]
Stork 404
firebathero 256
Soma 253
GuemChi 224
Mind 110
sSak 96
TY 82
PianO 68
hero 55
Sharp 52
Barracks 49
JulyZerg 44
Sea.KH 39
Aegong 31
JYJ29
sorry 29
Terrorterran 21
yabsab 19
soO 18
HiyA 18
Rock 15
GoRush 15
IntoTheRainbow 10
Shine 9
Dota 2
Gorgc5296
qojqva3491
syndereN419
League of Legends
singsing2343
Dendi1181
Counter-Strike
byalli313
markeloff140
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King230
Other Games
hiko1716
B2W.Neo1092
Beastyqt651
crisheroes424
Lowko346
ArmadaUGS131
Liquid`VortiX123
ZerO(Twitch)17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick42528
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 600
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 12
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3843
• WagamamaTV456
League of Legends
• Nemesis6901
Upcoming Events
RotterdaM Event
1h 8m
Replay Cast
9h 8m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19h 8m
WardiTV European League
1d 1h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 19h
WardiTV European League
1d 21h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.