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Hello I am a Bronzie Zerg that needs help with his strategy vs Terran
Basically, I would go for a very fast lair then throw down a infestation pit then immediately get hive tech while droning like crazy. Once hive finishes, most of the time i would be getting my third, have 2 fully saturated bases and +1 melee and carapace at around 11-12 mins in-game timing. I will then get adrenal glands and ultralisk cavern, get +2 and +3 melee and carapace and start massing lings. Once ultralisk cavern finishes, i will get as many ultras as possible, and get chitinous plating and max out with ultras and lings and just roll the opponent.
I problem i foresee with the replies: Don't think about strategy at the Bronze level, just macro and you will win.
This part i understand and i have been trying to improve my macro all the time when i play, finding out the best opener and droning like mad when i can. I hope you would help me improve my strategy against terran and not keep repeating the same thing macro macro macro cause i already know i have to do it and i am taking action
When i play against terran, any early push before 12 minutes basically kills me but in bronze, they usually can't even do a marine tank push before 12 minutes so i am kinda safe and can get away with this. You might think that airplay basically kills my entire army and yes. It does. However, if he gets air, bronze player's ground army would be weaker and in most of my games, i usually win despite banshees flying around because his ground army is weaker so my ultras and crackling will roll him.
I have a couple of replays against terran with this build: (I couldn't find any losses once ultras are present)
1) http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14343
Vs nEBUz where i won
2) http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14344
Vs Torbreck where he use marine tank and managed to siege up outside my natural but he got too greedy and lost his army
3) http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14345
Vs Bob where he had banshees but i still won
Thanks for your help
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The question is why are you trying to get ultras on the field at the 15 minute mark. You don't need ultras that fast, and as you can see it leaves you open to early attacks. Just take a think about your strategy, and ask yourself what do you really want out of your army? Furthermore, you can't really support Ultras that early in the game, even off of 3base, and ultras aren't that good vs marine tank, they're far more suited to a meching terran. I'd say your strategy is what you should be doing if you scout the terran meching. Otherwise, I'd suggest a more traditional muta or infestor style.
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I think, as a bronze player, just to focus on macro, but for your strat specifically? No need to rush to lair, and i suggest you use mutas rather than Infestors, try to get accustomed to Ling/bling/muta, and if you really cant stand it, take more bases, dont rush THAT fast toward hive, and get BL's they are far superior, and when ur opponent over makes vikings THEN switch to ultras. But first of all u should work on macro/micro, GLGL! :D
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
not a horrible strategy. macro is your problem. you should not be getting hive tech as your 3rd goes up. you should be getting hive tech as your 4th goes up at the earliest. you should have higher upgrades by the time you get to hive tech with your mass ling ultra style, 2/2 should at least be on the way. just take more bases, make an army in the midgame to put on pressure, and macro harder/faster.
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@ManicMarine
I want those ultras to win the game. They are fast and super powerful with +2 Melee and Carapace and can kill any marine tank army i usually see in SEA Bronze league and also, with the early lair and hive, most of the time, cracklings and ultras come out just as the delayed marine tank comes out with medivac and viking support i usually see and lings own marine tank while ultras can back up the lings.
@PandaMonk
I hate mutas. They are fast and very good harass units but when using them, you have to micro them a little to avoid thor splash, marines running under them, turrets blowing them up etc. My multitasking is horrifying so i don't use them very much. Infestors are not used at all in my ultra ling strategy so all gas is spent for teching to hive, upgrades and ultras. I tried ling bling muta without muta to great effect, winning many ZvTs (Pure Lings and Blings can defeat a Terran at my level) But i personally prefer the fast ultra and lings to devastate any mid game terran army. About the BL to ultra transition, it works off of 4 base late game due to the amount of gas income you have but on 2 base mid game which i attack at, it fails horribly due to the lack of gas income.
@ZjiublingZ
My macro helps me get such early ultras. My macro fails horribly and i cannot use up the gas and minerals i have so i float. And when i float 1k gas, i can get infestation pit, hive, ultra cavern, +2 melee and carapace, adrenal glands and 5 ultras as soon as it's requirements are fulfilled. and lungs don't use any gas so all gas can be used on upgrades and tech as i said earlier so it is fine at my level of play i think. Hive tech works on 2 1/2 base for some reason.
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Well it sounds like you really enjoy your ling/ultra rolls. Given that, and trying not to say "Just watch [pro player here] and do what they do," I'll just give what I might think could be tweaks, or alterations to your strategy.
If air is your problem, extra queens is likely the answer. Thankfully if you're massing drones, you shouldn't have too big of a shortage of minerals. Also allows for the extras to drop tumors as well, something you could always keep in good practice in any league. Transfuses as well, should the need arise.
If you're willing to play with mutas, I'd highly recommend them. Managing them is good work for micro at bronze, helping you deviate from the "1a" factor since you need to not fly them into marines  Also, if you *really* want to challenge your macro you can work on managing mutalisks while still producing and teching. Might be a bit beyond you... for now.
Scouting! Keep scouting here and there, toss a ling out occasionally and see if they're moving. That will help alert you to any pre-12min pressure and let you at least spam some lings out.
If you're high in drones and minerals, that's an opportunity for spore and spine crawlers. Don't feel bad about dropping half a dozen spines as a pre-engagement wall in the middle of the field (spreading creep tumors, right?) or a couple of spores in/around mineral lines to ward off banshee play.
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Try going 3 bases 76 supply while teching to ultra / crackling.
Drone up real hard 24 drones on each base 3 queens.
15 / hatch
42-44 / hatch then throw down macro hatch.
Try to inject best as you can, so you can can spend floating money for mass lings.
You could prob macro hatch for each base and utilize 6 hatch.
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If you're planning on going for fast ultras, why not try something like Stephano's ZvT?
Make sure you open with a fast hatch and get a good drone count (~50), then go for really early 1/1 and get a lot of lings in the midgame while spending all your gas on tech / melee+carapace upgrades. Your midgame should be 1/1 or 2/2 speedlings with a few infestors to kill any marine balls while taking your third, and your lategame composition should be as many ultras as you can afford + shitton of cracklings + a few infestors.
Just make sure you have enough drones, hit those larva injects (very important for any heavy speedling style) and dont constantly get supply blocked 
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These replays are absolutely useless other than that we can use these and tell you how bad your opponent is. There is no way your build can survive a blue flame hellion harass or early 2 port banshee rush, because you did not have any scouting information at all and there is no static defense. You can get 70 drones just because your opponent was not doing anything. Injects are not lining up at all, queens have almost full energy the entire game. What do you do with the excess amount of minerals? you get more bases, even a macro hatch. I am not even talking about your build orders or strategies, I am only talking about that your macro is not even up to par AND you do not even have any scouting information. Try go 15 hatch and then pool, and you will understand a lot more. As your rank moves up, you will find out a lot of problems, and you will understand why we always just telling low level players that you just need to "macro harder".
As a matter of fact, if you can build more than 7 ultralisks at the same time, your macro is bad. What you need to do right now is to move up your rank as fast as you can, because I believe you can totally get up to about high silver to gold according to your caliber (or your replays just tricked me)
good luck have fun and just try to macro harder for the swarm.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
My macro helps me get such early ultras. My macro fails horribly and i cannot use up the gas and minerals i have so i float. And when i float 1k gas, i can get infestation pit, hive, ultra cavern, +2 melee and carapace, adrenal glands and 5 ultras as soon as it's requirements are fulfilled. and lungs don't use any gas so all gas can be used on upgrades and tech as i said earlier so it is fine at my level of play i think. Hive tech works on 2 1/2 base for some reason.
If you are going upgraded lings -> infestors -> more upgrades and ultras than your strategy is fine. If you feel like you are having trouble, I can assure you it is because of your macro. If you cannot get rid of your minerals, make more macro hatches and expansions faster. If you cannot get rid of your gas fast enough, then start your upgrades and tech sooner. Make 4 macro hatches and 4 queens if you can't nail your injects often enough. Expand to every single base. If you do these things, then you can win faster, and more often.
If you are asking people how you can improve your ZvT, and the problem you are having is always dying before 12 minutes, then you are going to have to not bank so many resources for a 2 base Ultra play. If you do not want to improve your play, then continue with your strategy. There is not some amazing strategy that is going to help you defend everything if you are banking up so many resources. I am telling you how to get rid of banked resources, even if you cannot nail all your injects.
You have to challenge your macro to improve your macro. Make multiple macro hatches. Expand everywhere.
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At the lower levels for Protoss and Terran, it's all about remembering to keep making units and workers, but for zerg it doesn't work so easily. Instead, it's about making as many workers as possible early on, then making units in preparation for your opponent's timing.
Now, having watched the first two replays, it is great that you're making 60+ workers before making units. However, since your opponent is a low level terran, he is forgetting to make units and expansions and workers on time. Add to that the tendency of many bronze players to play passively and build up slowly to their ideal unit composition, a zerg with the mindset of getting a lot of drones will get have an insurmountable economic advantage if left to drone freely for so long.
Better terran players know this, and will do a variety of attacks to keep a zerg from droning so much. As a zerg, you need to learn to recognize what's coming and prepare accordingly. For instance, if you scout many barracks, you might respond by making a baneling nest and spreading creep. If you scout a starport, maybe you'll get a spire to help fend off drops. Throwing in these things will slow you down from reaching your ultimate desired end game composition, but more importantly they will keep you alive. Against a passive bronze player, this doesn't matter, but you'll eventually start hitting stronger opponents and will need to make these types of adjustments.
Finally, I wouldn't recommend getting quite so many ultras, they tend to get in each other's way. 5-6 ultras are great for charging a tank line, but I prefer to get more lings and banes to help out. Ideally, mutas or infestors are a great complement as well since they also protect your from a lot of the attacks that might come in the midgame.
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I also like using a mainly ling/ultra strategy with some banelings and infestors. A good opener for you would be the Spanishiwa style, it give you some early AA and should help with your creep spread. Your macro definitely needs work, but I'm going to give you advice on a different front. I think a better hot-key setup would help you a lot, based on your 1st replay. Try putting all your hatches on 5 and all of your queens on 4. Also try putting your ultras on hot-key 1, your lings on hot-key 2, and make some banelings on 3, they will help your ultras against large groups of marines.
Next With all those minerals your floating throw down a macro hatch and a 4th base and just saturate your gas. This should help you spend your minerals and give you more gas.
Lastly, some advice on your engagement. If your against a Terran who is turtling, the worst way to engage is head on into a choke. If you want a better way to handle that try throwing down a couple Nydus Worms. Load half your lings in them, and use overlords to drop the Nydus' in his main. This should distract some of his units if he sees it and if not you get some extra damage. Meanwhile hit the front line with your ultras and banes.
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If you don't want to alter your unit comp and don't want any macro tips, there's not a whole lot left to say
One thing I would suggest is making a precautionary baneling nest. Since you have a bunch of lings and a bunch of gas lying about while you tech towards ultras, you could use that to spawn a massive amount of banelings, should an unusually competent Terran do a proper attack before your Ultras are out. They gain most of the same benefits from upgrades that your lings and ultras do.
Also since you're relying on lings until 15 minutes, you WILL need macro hatches. Even with perfect injects you won't have enough larvae to make pure ling. So add those into your build.
Finally since you have spare minerals and a good drone count, stick a spine and a spore at every base. That should secure you from most harass.
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Get a roach warren/ baneling nest in case of a push, get some units out to defend and for map control since you should have lots of mineral. But from my experience in Bronze, i doubt a specific strategy/ build order works since bronze is really unpredictable
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I'm sure this works fine in Bronze, but you'll have a hard time getting anywhere past Silver I'd say. Ling/bling/muta and practice your micro would be your best bet. Rushing that fast to Hive tech is very gimmicky and only works when your opponents are shitballs-terribad.
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On October 15 2011 21:24 Monkeyballs25 wrote:If you don't want to alter your unit comp and don't want any macro tips, there's not a whole lot left to say .
pretty much this, if you don't want people talking about certain things it's hard to help you, especially when these are the most important things. The best thing to do at a low level is pick a solid, macro based strategy with a common unit comp and then just focus on refinement and timings. I would suggest play more standard with a later hive and just work on out producing your opponent and inject/overlord timings etc
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Why not post replays of you losing before the ultras are out. You also know that anything before 12 mins kills you so that could indicate a problem with your opening build. Of course assuming that you scout well and stuff. I think this will help you to improve further, especially out of the bronze league this will no longer work
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I watched the first replay, and it was pretty solid for your level. You synchronized upgrades(making melee units and getting melee upgrades . But when your minerals gets really high like that, and you don't have a way to spend it, check all of your gases and make sure they all have drones in them. Then slam down like 7 hatcheries. To reinforce the point, go fucking nuts with hatcheries when you have a ton of minerals.
There is a couple of spotting techniques that you should play around with against the ai sometime. Try keeping a zergling at the bottom of your opponents ramp, overlords at all bases, and overlords around the outside of the map to spot for drops.
And the one thing about zergling ultralisk is that you can't shoot up. Queens can fill this role quite nicely. As they can also transfuse the ultralisk for the full amount of the healing(125). So it naturally flows well with the army . But keep it mind, queens are damn slow off creep, you may need to make a "creep highway" with overlords to your opponents base so your queens can keep up.
Never gave low level advice before, hope this helps .
Edit: some spelling errors
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On October 15 2011 14:27 Spocria wrote:
@ManicMarine
I want those ultras to win the game. They are fast and super powerful with +2 Melee and Carapace and can kill any marine tank army i usually see in SEA Bronze league and also, with the early lair and hive, most of the time, cracklings and ultras come out just as the delayed marine tank comes out with medivac and viking support i usually see and lings own marine tank while ultras can back up the lings.
@PandaMonk
I hate mutas. They are fast and very good harass units but when using them, you have to micro them a little to avoid thor splash, marines running under them, turrets blowing them up etc. My multitasking is horrifying so i don't use them very much. Infestors are not used at all in my ultra ling strategy so all gas is spent for teching to hive, upgrades and ultras. I tried ling bling muta without muta to great effect, winning many ZvTs (Pure Lings and Blings can defeat a Terran at my level) But i personally prefer the fast ultra and lings to devastate any mid game terran army. About the BL to ultra transition, it works off of 4 base late game due to the amount of gas income you have but on 2 base mid game which i attack at, it fails horribly due to the lack of gas income.
@ZjiublingZ
My macro helps me get such early ultras. My macro fails horribly and i cannot use up the gas and minerals i have so i float. And when i float 1k gas, i can get infestation pit, hive, ultra cavern, +2 melee and carapace, adrenal glands and 5 ultras as soon as it's requirements are fulfilled. and lungs don't use any gas so all gas can be used on upgrades and tech as i said earlier so it is fine at my level of play i think. Hive tech works on 2 1/2 base for some reason.
If you're floating 1k minerals you should make a macro hatch, as regardless of what you do with the extra larvae, it's better than floating the mins.
Honestly, I don't know what sort of advice you're looking for with this post, as you seem unwilling to even work on the simple suggestions that better players than you have made above.
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Actually, you could just go aXa style for your ZvT: aXa-style ZvT.
You get map control, quick tech (once your lings are out), and can easily take on big armies as long as your upgrades keep up.
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On October 15 2011 12:54 Spocria wrote:
When i play against terran, any early push before 12 minutes basically kills me but in bronze, they usually can't even do a marine tank push before 12 minutes so i am kinda safe and can get away with this.
Thanks for your help
This is a very dangerous mindset to have. And it will only stunt your development. If you're knowledgeable enough to know that your strategy is bad you should fix it. But instead you say "well what I'm doing is bad, but it doesn't even matter because what they're doing is worse." Yah maybe it's working now, but you want to win at the next level too right? If you know a timing can come between 9 and 10 minutes than your build should prepare for that. If it comes later because he's bad... (not because he took a 3rd heh) then o well you're still prepared and likely still ahead.
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EPT
