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On October 12 2011 23:13 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:
This thread should be deleted, the OP is fabricating his credentials as he is not a Season 3 Grandmaster. Furthermore, there is widespread consensus amongst high level players on NA that OP has received account leveling. For the sake of the community, I believe that people shouldn't post guides claiming it to be high level play, because it's not - it's gimmick cheese that the OP justifies by his false credential of being a GM.
i totally agree with this guy, i know tang and hes a terrible coach along with terrible player. he bm's all day on ladder. he only cheeses to get his points up, if you see his match history almost all his games are under 6 minutes. post is not high level play as well.
Oh yea, btw. He is gm. But he pays people to leave games
http://i.imgur.com/UKLXb.jpg
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Never paid anyone to leave a game
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On November 08 2011 02:56 TangSC wrote:Never paid anyone to leave a game
you make it kinda hard to believe when you add smileys to both messages in the picture where you paid the guy to leave and your post. lol..
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On November 08 2011 02:16 dicksonlam708 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 23:13 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:
This thread should be deleted, the OP is fabricating his credentials as he is not a Season 3 Grandmaster. Furthermore, there is widespread consensus amongst high level players on NA that OP has received account leveling. For the sake of the community, I believe that people shouldn't post guides claiming it to be high level play, because it's not - it's gimmick cheese that the OP justifies by his false credential of being a GM. i totally agree with this guy, i know tang and hes a terrible coach along with terrible player. he bm's all day on ladder. he only cheeses to get his points up, if you see his match history almost all his games are under 6 minutes. post is not high level play as well. Oh yea, btw. He is gm. But he pays people to leave games http://i.imgur.com/UKLXb.jpg
http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n587/tang442244/?action=view¤t=DizonBlackmail.jpg
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On November 08 2011 04:48 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 02:16 dicksonlam708 wrote:On October 12 2011 23:13 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:
This thread should be deleted, the OP is fabricating his credentials as he is not a Season 3 Grandmaster. Furthermore, there is widespread consensus amongst high level players on NA that OP has received account leveling. For the sake of the community, I believe that people shouldn't post guides claiming it to be high level play, because it's not - it's gimmick cheese that the OP justifies by his false credential of being a GM. i totally agree with this guy, i know tang and hes a terrible coach along with terrible player. he bm's all day on ladder. he only cheeses to get his points up, if you see his match history almost all his games are under 6 minutes. post is not high level play as well. Oh yea, btw. He is gm. But he pays people to leave games http://i.imgur.com/UKLXb.jpg http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n587/tang442244/?action=view¤t=DizonBlackmail.jpg
LOL well played Tang, well played.
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Seen this back in the beta, nothing new at all
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On November 08 2011 04:48 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 02:16 dicksonlam708 wrote:On October 12 2011 23:13 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:
This thread should be deleted, the OP is fabricating his credentials as he is not a Season 3 Grandmaster. Furthermore, there is widespread consensus amongst high level players on NA that OP has received account leveling. For the sake of the community, I believe that people shouldn't post guides claiming it to be high level play, because it's not - it's gimmick cheese that the OP justifies by his false credential of being a GM. i totally agree with this guy, i know tang and hes a terrible coach along with terrible player. he bm's all day on ladder. he only cheeses to get his points up, if you see his match history almost all his games are under 6 minutes. post is not high level play as well. Oh yea, btw. He is gm. But he pays people to leave games http://i.imgur.com/UKLXb.jpg http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n587/tang442244/?action=view¤t=DizonBlackmail.jpg
Do you have any proof that dicksonlam708 is Dizon? Or, for that matter, any proof that Dizon isn't just a friend of yours posing for a picture?
Furthermore, even if it's legitimate, this doesn't exonerate you - it merely also paints someone else negatively.
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It's a silly accusation. If you show me one person who claims to have accepted money for leaving a game I've played in ladder, I'll show you a liar.
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This is a BO loss on many maps vs first hatch first roach, hatch first ling bane, and hatch first pure ling. While it may be the best build in 1 base vs 1 base in theory it can still lose vs any good baneling hit if the opponent positions his units correctly.
The game vs idra didn't show anything at all, he was a little overgreedy and left when he saw your lings, if he would have cut 2 workers for a slightly earlier roach warren he could have easily had 4-5 roaches in time to defend losing almost nothing and being ahead in the macro game.
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On November 08 2011 06:11 BinxyBrown wrote:
This is a BO loss on many maps vs first hatch first roach, hatch first ling bane, and hatch first pure ling. While it may be the best build in 1 base vs 1 base in theory it can still lose vs any good baneling hit if the opponent positions his units correctly.
The game vs idra didn't show anything at all, he was a little overgreedy and left when he saw your lings, if he would have cut 2 workers for a slightly earlier roach warren he could have easily had 4-5 roaches in time to defend losing almost nothing and being ahead in the macro game.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a BO loss, mate, as it has some distinct advantages over those builds. I've used this build exclusively in ZvZ for a long time and it's my best matchup by far.
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What would you say is the best defense against this? I'm facing ling/bling allins almost every ZvZ and it's incredibly frustrating.
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I mean the best defense is a good offense, adapt an aggressive ZvZ style yourself or have really good roach defense.
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I've been using this, and even though I'm not super high level, it has literally just stomped everyone I've played against. Since the start of the new season, literally 100% winrate vZ.
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On November 08 2011 07:47 TangSC wrote:
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a BO loss, mate, as it has some distinct advantages over those builds. I've used this build exclusively in ZvZ for a long time and it's my best matchup by far.
Really? When we've played the last couple of times you've seemed to like to 9 or 10pool me...
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This is a dumb build that autoloses to any kind of baneling opener.
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This is a cheesey build that I was doing when I was in platinum and didn't know how to ZvZ :/ .
Tang, you pass off all your builds as high level when they are just all-ins that have been around since the game came out. Maybe you'd get more respect if you actually showed more creativity with your builds or talked about more of a macro focus.
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On November 08 2011 05:33 Glexarn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 04:48 TangSC wrote:On November 08 2011 02:16 dicksonlam708 wrote:On October 12 2011 23:13 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:
This thread should be deleted, the OP is fabricating his credentials as he is not a Season 3 Grandmaster. Furthermore, there is widespread consensus amongst high level players on NA that OP has received account leveling. For the sake of the community, I believe that people shouldn't post guides claiming it to be high level play, because it's not - it's gimmick cheese that the OP justifies by his false credential of being a GM. i totally agree with this guy, i know tang and hes a terrible coach along with terrible player. he bm's all day on ladder. he only cheeses to get his points up, if you see his match history almost all his games are under 6 minutes. post is not high level play as well. Oh yea, btw. He is gm. But he pays people to leave games http://i.imgur.com/UKLXb.jpg http://s1141.photobucket.com/albums/n587/tang442244/?action=view¤t=DizonBlackmail.jpg Do you have any proof that dicksonlam708 is Dizon? Or, for that matter, any proof that Dizon isn't just a friend of yours posing for a picture? Furthermore, even if it's legitimate, this doesn't exonerate you - it merely also paints someone else negatively.
My first post and I'm here to clear up the facts because I'm sick of the bull shit.
1. I am the source of this picture, not Dizon or anyone else. Tang did not pay me to leave the game, merely because I did not leave the game. Given what I know of Tang and his ethics, I already knew that I wouldn't have received anything had I left anyways. (the replay has not been uploaded, so I am the only possible holder of that replay, if evidence is needed).
2. If you watch any of Tang's replays, and actually think about his build order - it's all blind cheese, not reactive aggression like he calls it. And there's nothing fundamental wrong with it, but just because a llama vaguely resembles a horse, you don't call it a horse.
3. Call it hearsay, but the community of top level sc2 players is relatively small. The arguments are always the same - enter a chat channel and the good players are laughing away at Tang while the bronze-diamond always jump into his defense. Well, here are the reasons why we don't appreciate the guides:
- We have good reason to believe you had your account leveled. Suspiciously different hotkey usage and even race changes, with several (yes, more than one) people claiming to have leveled your account. After you were unable to find a leveler following the GM reset, your winrate plummeted and you are barely winning 50%. Unfortunately, it's not just hearsay and rumors that are annoying either.
- You are one of the only people to leverage your (ex) GM position, rather than actual skill, to benefit yourself financially, and this is probably what led to people investigating your account in the first place. You then used your position to claim to be a professional starcraft player, which may be believable to susceptible individuals who don't know better.
- In the same way, these guides are also solely intended for you financial benefit, and not to help the SC2 community. I guess that's fine - but the worst part is that you decide to name these blatantly generic and common builds after yourself (with the exception of this post). As MANY people have pointed out - there's nothing new here, the innovation here isn't close to what iEchoic did, and even then it was pretty damn annoying.
/endrant.
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On November 08 2011 06:53 sdrawkcab_ wrote:
What would you say is the best defense against this? I'm facing ling/bling allins almost every ZvZ and it's incredibly frustrating.
Its really easy actually (people that do this to me are just handing me a free win its so kind of them :D). You should have an ovelord to check his drone count, speedlings of your own to run 1 around and check his drone count + ling count. If you see low drones you know he's all inning with something so just prepare by massing a ton of units.
If you go banelings at all then this is also a super easy free win. You should have a decent amount of lings and always should have some defensive banelings if you don't plan on being aggressive and once you see his all in ling coming your way you already have some banelings, so make some more, make sure they don't hit 1 ling and hit a lot of them and it is essentially a free win.
Really I would only do this build if you don't care about improving. If you are trying to improve your game this strategy is not something to do as while it'll get you some easy wins sometimes this build is just hoping your opponent is being to greedy, not have banelings. So if you don't care about improving and want fast wins sure copy this go ahead but yeah.
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On October 12 2011 06:42 Karellen wrote:
I have started implementing this as my sole strategy in ZvZ already. I learned this build from one of Tang's students, and this build is INSANELY strong at least at a high diamond level. The only build that I feel comes out significantly ahead is a 14 pool 14 gas baneling expand with delayed zergling speed. I have not faced anyone that has come out ahead when they go 15 hatch into roaches, but with a 15 hatch 15 pool 14 gas -> defensive banelings + a spine and a queen immediately when pool/hatch finishes, with almost PERFECT micro.
Tldr: great build that at least comes out even vs almost anything but a baneling expand. You almost always need less micro than them too. Has high chance of immediately ending the game.
Instead of "learning" from Tang, wouldnt it be nicer to actually be good at this game?
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On November 08 2011 14:34 chingchong99 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 06:42 Karellen wrote:
I have started implementing this as my sole strategy in ZvZ already. I learned this build from one of Tang's students, and this build is INSANELY strong at least at a high diamond level. The only build that I feel comes out significantly ahead is a 14 pool 14 gas baneling expand with delayed zergling speed. I have not faced anyone that has come out ahead when they go 15 hatch into roaches, but with a 15 hatch 15 pool 14 gas -> defensive banelings + a spine and a queen immediately when pool/hatch finishes, with almost PERFECT micro.
Tldr: great build that at least comes out even vs almost anything but a baneling expand. You almost always need less micro than them too. Has high chance of immediately ending the game. Instead of "learning" from Tang, wouldnt it be nicer to actually be good at this game?
Cheese and all-ins have everything to do with this game as much as a macro game does. SC2 is a dynamic game that's great because it's not always some long macro. Go look at the most recent sen/naniwa game in the ipl4 qualifiers. Sen was pretty cheesy (not going into details to avoid spoilers), but you get the idea. Great games aren't always macro. It only really gets annoying when you get the kids who go random time and time again just to use the cheese for whatever race they choose, best part about that is that when their cheese fails you pretty much auto win.
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EPT
