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On September 16 2011 22:22 wGbNykur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 21:52 -Dustin- wrote:
I would assume its not used much because the micro is in favor of the defender. As all they have to do is split their drones into groups of 1-2 and you won't have enough banelings to trade and be ahead. Also Drones are faster than Banelings if I recall so if they see it coming just run them around while lings target down the Blings.
As I said I'm not done messing around with it, it has potential but I believe it will die out as it will be figured out. He is entirely correct. A good player just splits the drones and then he's way ahead.
This is pretty much right on.
10 pool banes, or any early pool into bane build (or any early pool build in general) is going to do very well against hatch first.
But against anything else, the baneling player is going to find himself quite behind unless he gets really luck with some baneling detonations.
Unlike 14/14, early pool into banes can't really sustain baneling production after the initial attack, so if you're not able to win the game with it, be prepared to get wrecked by speedling/baneling, or even speedling/roach off of a stronger eco than what you're running.
Also, to the gold league guy that's asking questions about this build: don't waste your time bro.
Learn to play standard and you'll be much better off.
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On October 02 2011 20:25 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 22:22 wGbNykur wrote:On September 16 2011 21:52 -Dustin- wrote:
I would assume its not used much because the micro is in favor of the defender. As all they have to do is split their drones into groups of 1-2 and you won't have enough banelings to trade and be ahead. Also Drones are faster than Banelings if I recall so if they see it coming just run them around while lings target down the Blings.
As I said I'm not done messing around with it, it has potential but I believe it will die out as it will be figured out. He is entirely correct. A good player just splits the drones and then he's way ahead. This is pretty much right on. 10 pool banes, or any early pool into bane build (or any early pool build in general) is going to do very well against hatch first. But against anything else, the baneling player is going to find himself quite behind unless he gets really luck with some baneling detonations. Unlike 14/14, early pool into banes can't really sustain baneling production after the initial attack, so if you're not able to win the game with it, be prepared to get wrecked by speedling/baneling, or even speedling/roach off of a stronger eco than what you're running. Also, to the gold league guy that's asking questions about this build: don't waste your time bro. Learn to play standard and you'll be much better off.
I don't think there's really much luck in it at all. Through the replays I've seen, against 14/14 I think if you win the fight, you are ahead and/or win the game outright. If you lose the fight, you're behind. I think it's a solid cheese to learn and it's definitely mechanics dependent, but I don't really feel like 14/14 has some tangible advantage over 10 pool baneling in the actual engagement itself.... seems like it's very even and dependent on who has better micro.
And you don't have to use the banes to kill the drones, just the army. Using the banes to get the drones to split is an excellent tactic to enable zerglings to snipe off groups of units while being defended by any surviving banes + Show Spoiler + as seen in G5 of that same series
I definitely agree that it's not something you should spend time on though in gold league  . I wish I had taken that kind of advice when I was learning this game. It set me pretty far behind for a while...
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I've had top master players open with 10pool styles and then use banelings defensively to secure an expansion (2queens to wall ramp). And transition into fast muta and actually win a macro game so keep in mind if you perfect your 10pool timings and game-sense, it's not an all in.
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Yeah, like the guy above me said, shouldn't you use the banes to kill lings and the lings to use drones?
(I don't know how many lings you actually will have though)
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so what happens if the opponent puts a spine up? that is what has been happening to me and it's just autoloss it seems like.
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This build is basically an auto loss to a well microed 14g14p, this build is designed to kill hatch first (possibly does ok against a regular 10 pool or 10 pool speed as well?).
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On October 08 2011 13:27 Stormstealth wrote:
This build is basically an auto loss to a well microed 14g14p, this build is designed to kill hatch first (possibly does ok against a regular 10 pool or 10 pool speed as well?).
Equal micro withstanding, I really feel it's a toss-up, but it definitely comes down to who micros better.
I've still yet to see a pro-level rep of 10 pool baneling beating a 14/14, but the sample size is small, and the few games that have been played looked to come down merely to micro (or mis-micro).
On October 08 2011 13:16 kushm4sta wrote:
so what happens if the opponent puts a spine up? that is what has been happening to me and it's just autoloss it seems like.
No one would spine against this because you won't see it coming until it's happening if you hatch first, and it won't be completed (while costing you 6 vital lings) if you do see it coming.
If the aggressor is good at masking his early lings (i.e. sending them through opponent's overlord at the 14/14 timing (~3:30 off ramp) spine crawler would be a non-factor.
I guess against an early drone scout or close air position maps it would be possible, but then why would you choose this build on something like close shattered where you know your opponent's location before you pool?
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On October 02 2011 22:05 michaelhasanalias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 20:25 MrBitter wrote:On September 16 2011 22:22 wGbNykur wrote:On September 16 2011 21:52 -Dustin- wrote:
I would assume its not used much because the micro is in favor of the defender. As all they have to do is split their drones into groups of 1-2 and you won't have enough banelings to trade and be ahead. Also Drones are faster than Banelings if I recall so if they see it coming just run them around while lings target down the Blings.
As I said I'm not done messing around with it, it has potential but I believe it will die out as it will be figured out. He is entirely correct. A good player just splits the drones and then he's way ahead. This is pretty much right on. 10 pool banes, or any early pool into bane build (or any early pool build in general) is going to do very well against hatch first. But against anything else, the baneling player is going to find himself quite behind unless he gets really luck with some baneling detonations. Unlike 14/14, early pool into banes can't really sustain baneling production after the initial attack, so if you're not able to win the game with it, be prepared to get wrecked by speedling/baneling, or even speedling/roach off of a stronger eco than what you're running. Also, to the gold league guy that's asking questions about this build: don't waste your time bro. Learn to play standard and you'll be much better off. I don't think there's really much luck in it at all. Through the replays I've seen, against 14/14 I think if you win the fight, you are ahead and/or win the game outright. If you lose the fight, you're behind. I think it's a solid cheese to learn and it's definitely mechanics dependent, but I don't really feel like 14/14 has some tangible advantage over 10 pool baneling in the actual engagement itself.... seems like it's very even and dependent on who has better micro. And you don't have to use the banes to kill the drones, just the army. Using the banes to get the drones to split is an excellent tactic to enable zerglings to snipe off groups of units while being defended by any surviving banes + Show Spoiler + as seen in G5 of that same series . I definitely agree that it's not something you should spend time on though in gold league . I wish I had taken that kind of advice when I was learning this game. It set me pretty far behind for a while...
I've been trying the strat a bit - if you lose the fight you've lost the game. You didn't get a queen and are on 10 drones (13 produced, 1 for each of pool/gas/nest)
Even if you manage to take him down to 8 drones he can drone up much faster because he has a queen.
That being said at my level (high masters, ~1500) I can still beat people 10p baneling vs 14g/14p... but I imagine at top levels you can't if the player micros properly.
Also very cheesy.
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EPT
