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Let's take a look at a scenario that I think almost all of you have encountered before:
1. OMG! There's a huge army coming in!
![[image loading]](http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8510/omgxi.jpg)
PANIC MODE!
2. In your panic you grab your entire army, press A and by accident click on a unit! (sometimes even your own unit)
![[image loading]](http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1008/nooooooooo.jpg)
Everybody go kill that Sentry!
3. Now all of your units have been trying to move in range of that sentry to kill while his army is destroying yours.
![[image loading]](http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2388/24583840.jpg)
GG T.T
This has been happening to me too often I feel. This mistake will almost always cost you the game. So I was wondering if instead of using A-attack to rather use Patrol to attack, that way you'll never ever snipe any enemy/your own units accidentally. I've changed the hotkey for patrol to Q for marine splitting already.
Situations where a-attack has to be used
- When you want to attack with your workers
- When you actually want to snipe enemy units*
- Killing changelings*
- Destroying destructible rocks/neutral supply depots*
- Killing adorable critters? 
So dear TL users, what are your thoughts?
Edit:
*: Also possible by right clicking
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It's rare to make such a mistake when you play enough so i don't really see the point to press P instead of A
It comes down to player preference i guess
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On July 24 2011 00:11 Pumaska wrote:
It's rare to make such a mistake when you play enough so i don't really see the point to press P instead of A
It comes down to player preference i guess
its an easy mistake to make when you go into "panic mode" due to being surprised by something within the game, granted this rarely happens at the "highest level"(pro/gm) but lower than that it happens quite a lot, also he remapped P to be Q which is quite convenient to press (i have it remaped as the 0 hotkey for scouting workers and an extra army (spellcaster/templar) hotkey) that said without near perfect mouse control and a perfectly level head (which very few people actually have though many believe they do) you can snipe your own units...i remember a progame in the recent GSL Code A where the protoss player (PvZ) accidentally sniped his own stalker during blink micro, bringing his blinked stalkers back into the fight
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I just a-click behind the enemy army (usually in the fog of war) to avoid that overkill problem.
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On July 24 2011 00:11 Pumaska wrote:
It's rare to make such a mistake when you play enough so i don't really see the point to press P instead of A
It comes down to player preference i guess
Of course if you want to use this I strongly recommend to change the hotkey for patrol to either Q (like I do) or Z should also be fine.
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On July 24 2011 00:18 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:11 Pumaska wrote:
It's rare to make such a mistake when you play enough so i don't really see the point to press P instead of A
It comes down to player preference i guess its an easy mistake to make when you go into "panic mode" due to being surprised by something within the game, granted this rarely happens at the "highest level"(pro/gm) but lower than that it happens quite a lot, also he remapped P to be Q which is quite convenient to press (i have it remaped as the 0 hotkey for scouting workers and an extra army (spellcaster/templar) hotkey) that said without near perfect mouse control and a perfectly level head (which very few people actually have though many believe they do) you can snipe your own units...i remember a progame in the recent GSL Code A where the protoss player (PvZ) accidentally sniped his own stalker during blink micro, bringing his blinked stalkers back into the fight
I've never had the problem that I target one of his units in the back or something of the sorts. But when I micro back and fourth, I have accidently attacked my own units more than once. But when microing back and fourth, its the one time you really don't want to use patrol as well, as this doesn't give you sufficient control of your units I feel.
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haha I use grid and patrol attack by accident sometimes. I don't think it really makes any difference.
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To be honest I have never actually A-clicked on a unit, his army/my army, so I don't really use the patrol command, unless I'm trying to block an expo.
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Hm i guess for me this will be nice duunno how many of my own roaches i've sniped :D
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On July 24 2011 00:07 Sennap wrote:Situations where a-attack has to be used - When you want to attack with your workers True - When you actually want to snipe enemy units False - Killing changelings False - Destroying destructible rocks/neutral supply depots False - Killing adorable critters? TrueSo dear TL users, what are your thoughts?
All things marked false can be achieved by simply right clicking. The only thing that needs a-move is attacking with workers.
Although a-move might be required for neutral supply depots. Not sure.
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On July 24 2011 00:41 Turo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 00:07 Sennap wrote:Situations where a-attack has to be used - When you want to attack with your workers True - When you actually want to snipe enemy units False - Killing changelings False - Destroying destructible rocks/neutral supply depots False - Killing adorable critters? TrueSo dear TL users, what are your thoughts? All things marked false can be achieved by simply right clicking. The only thing that needs a-move is attacking with workers. Although a-move might be required for neutral supply depots. Not sure.
Thanks I rarely use right click so that didn't cross my mind, I'll edit the original post
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Well right clicking isn't perfect, since if u right click air u die en masse
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if your mouse accuracy is alright, such things wont happen. you aren't supposed to panic too...
but i do see your point. just train to the point where you will be sure to a-move on a space.
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On July 24 2011 00:51 BestZergOnEast wrote:
Well right clicking isn't perfect, since if u right click air u die en masse
true but you might just a move your gold command center hehe
no need to hate on op ist's a little uneeded, I thuoght I was going to see something about patrol spreading unit or something (god does sc2 need something like that)
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I've also had this happen to me before, but as others have suggested, I would rather train myself to not panic than train myself to use patrol. Patrol causes weird pathing around corners if you tell a blob to patrol across the entire map. If you're really having trouble with this, use attack move on the minimap instead.
EDIT: This is an example of what's termed a Loser's Strategy, which means to make compensating for a mistake part of your strategy, instead of trying to not make the mistake in the first place. It's tantamount to not building infestors because you're bad at infestor micro.
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The only situation I commonly have issues elated o this, it wouldn't help anyway. (Roach vs Blink Stalker).
My issue has more to do with blink than A-move, when I'm right-clicking behind his amy to MOVE forward, I often click on an area that happens to be exactly where a stalker appeared. This makes the roaches move in a funky manner.
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On July 24 2011 03:32 Jermstuddog wrote:
The only situation I commonly have issues elated o this, it wouldn't help anyway. (Roach vs Blink Stalker).
My issue has more to do with blink than A-move, when I'm right-clicking behind his amy to MOVE forward, I often click on an area that happens to be exactly where a stalker appeared. This makes the roaches move in a funky manner.
I think this problem would also be solved by clicking the minimap. I've gotten into a habit of doing that for zergling counterattacks or while repositioning my mutas to harass something else, and I think it's effective in any situation where you want to a-move off screen. I want to a-move behind my opponent's army, far enough that if they run I'll still keep chasing without having to issue a new command. In engagements large enough where it becomes more likely to make a mistake clicking directly on an enemy unit, this point is almost always offscreen, and I think it's faster to a-move on the minimap than to move my camera and then a-click on the main screen.
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On July 24 2011 03:32 Jermstuddog wrote:
The only situation I commonly have issues elated o this, it wouldn't help anyway. (Roach vs Blink Stalker).
My issue has more to do with blink than A-move, when I'm right-clicking behind his amy to MOVE forward, I often click on an area that happens to be exactly where a stalker appeared. This makes the roaches move in a funky manner.
I think that's a good example how a-attacking may even hurt high-level players. I guess you have to click very far from blink stalkers so this won't happen?
On July 24 2011 01:05 ElusoryX wrote:
if your mouse accuracy is alright, such things wont happen. you aren't supposed to panic too...
but i do see your point. just train to the point where you will be sure to a-move on a space.
I know I can keep practicing and eventually this will only happen to me 0,0001% of the time. But I don't see a reason why I wouldn't just make it 0% right now
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On July 24 2011 03:38 philipov wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 03:32 Jermstuddog wrote:
The only situation I commonly have issues elated o this, it wouldn't help anyway. (Roach vs Blink Stalker).
My issue has more to do with blink than A-move, when I'm right-clicking behind his amy to MOVE forward, I often click on an area that happens to be exactly where a stalker appeared. This makes the roaches move in a funky manner. I think this problem would also be solved by clicking the minimap. I've gotten into a habit of doing that for zergling counterattacks or while repositioning my mutas to harass something else, and I think it's effective in any situation where you want to a-move off screen. I want to a-move behind my opponent's army, far enough that if they run I'll still keep chasing without having to issue a new command. In engagements large enough where it becomes more likely to make a mistake clicking directly on an enemy unit, this point is almost always offscreen, and I think it's faster to a-move on the minimap than to move my camera and then a-click on the main screen.
Have always mini-mapped, unless you want to target fire a unit. Works really well when you are dealing with multiple control groups -- ling/muta.
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Would A-moving via the minimap be a solution also?
Edit: nvm the people above me already suggested it.
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On July 24 2011 03:51 Sennap wrote:I know I can keep practicing and eventually this will only happen to me 0,0001% of the time. But I don't see a reason why I wouldn't just make it 0% right now
The reason is because it will screw you over in the long run. You're trying to implement a crutch for your play that you'll just have to unlearn later, when it's much harder to change your habits.
You -do- need to keep practicing anyway, and this isn't the number one problem you have that's causing you to lose games. It will go away on its own, and in the short-term a-moving on the minimap will also solve the problem without leading you down a dead-end path.
Don't cut off your toe to solve a rash; treat it with ointment and wait for the rash to go away.
EDIT: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-309-the-right-and-wrong-way-to-learn-5229698
What you're suggesting is equivalent to not using infestors because you're bad at infestor micro.
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On July 24 2011 04:35 philipov wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2011 03:51 Sennap wrote:I know I can keep practicing and eventually this will only happen to me 0,0001% of the time. But I don't see a reason why I wouldn't just make it 0% right now The reason is because it will screw you over in the long run. You're trying to implement a crutch for your play that you'll just have to unlearn later, when it's much harder to change your habits. Don't cut off your toe to solve a rash; treat it with ointment and wait for the rash to go away. EDIT: http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-309-the-right-and-wrong-way-to-learn-5229698 What you're suggesting is equivalent to not using infestors because you're bad at infestor micro.
No, you're misunderstanding. A-attack doesn't have any advantaged over patrol-attack (that I can think of, and no one in this has suggested otherwise). So I'll never have to unlearn it.
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I was just trying it out in a unit tester with zerglings, and the pathing around corners doesn't seem so different, but I'm still worried that you you will have to change whether you a-move or p-move depending on whether you have scvs selected with your main army. I know terran likes to do that a lot, and there are plenty of times when I box all my drones together with any zerglings and roaches to defend, and I don't want to be thinking whether I should be a-moving or p-moving then. Having to use the appropriate key depending on whether there are any SCVs in your army sounds like it's a lot less effective, and keeps p-move from being a reliable replacement for a-move.
Also, I don't like that I can't tell my units to a-move to a spot so they'll attack any units on the way there, but -stop- when they reach that spot. with p-move, I have to micro my units just to have them reach their destination. This is another reason why you will continue having to use a-move even if you switch to using p-move.
As long as p-move isn't a complete replacement for a-move that lets you simply stop using a-move, it's my contention that it will be more effective to continue using a-move as you normally would instead of intertwining the two, and leave p-move to its specific uses. Mixing the two will just cause confusion in the middle of battle because you don't have a clear mental map.
If you continue having a problem, it's better to learn to a-move on the minimap, because that actually teaches you something you can apply to other situations.
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when you a-click, just make sure you a-click PAST the army. Your units will swarm the attackers and march forward to victory after they've killed everything.
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On July 24 2011 05:17 philipov wrote:
I was just trying it out in a unit tester with zerglings, and the pathing around corners doesn't seem so different, but I'm still worried that you you will have to change whether you a-move or p-move depending on whether you have scvs selected with your main army. I know terran likes to do that a lot, and there are plenty of times when I box all my drones together with any zerglings and roaches to defend, and I don't want to be thinking whether I should be a-moving or p-moving then. Having to use the appropriate key depending on whether there are any SCVs in your army sounds like it's a lot less effective, and keeps p-move from being a reliable replacement for a-move.
Also, I don't like that I can't tell my units to a-move to a spot so they'll attack any units on the way there, but -stop- when they reach that spot. with p-move, I have to micro my units just to have them reach their destination. This is another reason why you will continue having to use a-move even if you switch to using p-move.
As long as p-move isn't a complete replacement for a-move that lets you simply stop using a-move, it's my contention that it will be more effective to continue using a-move as you normally would instead of intertwining the two, and leave p-move to its specific uses. Mixing the two will just cause confusion in the middle of battle because you don't have a clear mental map.
If you continue having a problem, it's better to learn to a-move on the minimap, because that actually teaches you something you can apply to other situations.
Thanks for your feedback. So far this hasn't been too confusing for me yet (have only been using this for a couple of days), but your point is definitively valid.
On July 24 2011 05:41 SixPackAbs wrote:
when you a-click, just make sure you a-click PAST the army. Your units will swarm the attackers and march forward to victory after they've killed everything.
Yeah I know how it works but it still can happen by accident (blinking stalkers, units coming out from the fog). It happens to high-level players too.
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I like the idea presented. I'm trying to think of other application like this.
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I find I snipe my own units more frequently than I'd like (certainly more than my units like). Considering swapping my Attack and Patrol keys (they are right next to each other right now). Not sure if I will, but it's a nice tip, none the less. Might consider adding it to the 1000 Tips thread.
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I suppose it works for stutter step micro. I remember when I used to do it with 40+ marines, I'd accidently click on one of my ally marines. Luckily I play Zerg, so I don't have to worry about it as much.
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I Think the OP is useful for players who lack the discipline or experience to not panic and i have personally given feedback on players where they lost 1/2 their army because they right clicked behind the enemy army instead of right clicking an unit, a moving or patrolling. I believe the OP should reword the post to reflect that this technique is more beneficial to players who are trying to learn mechanics and have a tendency to panic.
Overall i don't think this is game changing or really beneficial to the majority of TL posters and should rather be included as a mini section in a guide rather then be its own subject, but please keep posting and trying to help the community and players :D
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It's rare but I do snipe my own units once in awhile... =[
not entirely convinced it's worth switching to patrol attacking though, especially now that I think about it, the only times I snipe my own units is when I just ask them to a-move from place to place and never during an engagement. That would just make patrol extremely frustrating
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Does this actually happen to people more than once every few months?
I mean, yeah this eliminates the problem.. But there wasn't really a problem for me to begin with. I'm much more worried when two big armies meet about repositioning, casting, misc micro and keeping up my macro than spending time correcting patrolled units that didn't attack move where I wanted them to.
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What happens when Patrol is Q and you want to play Zerg? No more Queens?
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Patrol attacking does not work with workers, they will just patrol and you've accomplished nothing.
Patrolling sounds good on paper and I think it would make a concave better. I think it would of been a better situation for you to test this theory and add it to the post instead of just stating the obvious.
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On July 24 2011 15:15 Sweetness.751 wrote:
What happens when Patrol is Q and you want to play Zerg? No more Queens?
rebind to 'a'.
edit:
On July 24 2011 15:19 Kornholi0 wrote:
Patrol attacking does not work with workers, they will just patrol and you've accomplished nothing.
Patrolling sounds good on paper and I think it would make a concave better. I think it would of been a better situation for you to test this theory and add it to the post instead of just stating the obvious.
you should re-read the op x.x
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you can right click a changeling to kill it
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On July 24 2011 15:19 Kornholi0 wrote:
Patrol attacking does not work with workers, they will just patrol and you've accomplished nothing.
Patrolling sounds good on paper and I think it would make a concave better. I think it would of been a better situation for you to test this theory and add it to the post instead of just stating the obvious.
I already said in the OP doesn't work with workers. I've tested a lot of stuff (check if melee units will behave strangely/worse using patrol-attack, if medivacs won't heal by using this, etc.). So far it's all pretty much equivalent to a-attacking. One thing I've found different is that a chost on "hold fire" wont attack when patrolled but attacks if a-attacked.
On July 24 2011 15:15 Sweetness.751 wrote:
What happens when Patrol is Q and you want to play Zerg? No more Queens?
Since Hatch/Lair/Hive can't patrol you can still use Q for making Queens.
On July 24 2011 16:07 Stropheum wrote:
you can right click a changeling to kill it
Yeah, that's true. It had already been added to the OP. But thanks anyway.
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maybe you can winn a battle with a few more units left... 1/4000 games where u misclick something so simple
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Can I just point out one thing at least? If you want to snipe a specific unit in the enemy's army, do NOT right click(!!). if you miss, you will spend valuable time trying to hit the right one again, while your army is suiciding itself into the enemy lines.
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EPT
