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Hello,
I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. I have a fun new PvZ build I have been working on over the past week that I would like to share with you.
I got bored of killing the first 4 minutes of the game with the same old routine and decided to try to find a reasonably viable way to incorporate a proxy gateway into my build.
The build is broken into 3 phases:
Implied proxy gateway pressure (2x zealots)
Stargate rush attack on zergs expand
Mothership during expand
The build sounds a little crazy but I have been having great success with it. The build attempts to apply pressure while heavily teching to ensure that we don't get steam rolled. Before you dismiss this as too gimmicky please give the replay a watch.
Phase by phase motivation
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Phase 1:
Implied proxy zealot pressure forces a lot of zerlings and or a spine crawler out. If the zerg is undefended you get free kills. Build your gateway and pylon somewhere the zerg can't easily snipe the pylon if detected. If your timing won't kill any workers show your zealots and return them to your base. Sacrifice the buildings. We are constantly building probes behind this and taking an early 2nd gas.
Phase 2:
Although the gateway is lost by now we were able to toss down a cyber core during our pressure. Because of this we are able to get a timely / early stargate. Saving chrono up to get out a voidray and 1-2 phoenix allows us to pressure expand and maybe even take it out. A forge and additional gateways at the main ensure the zergling response won't be an issue. Voidrays will handle a roach response.
Phase 3:
Because we have a stargate we might as well toss down a fleet beacon and get a mothership. This is all done in a rush fashion. We need the mothership out before our expand can be safe from a big hydra roach push. We expand while the mothership is building if we can and then take a quick third with our now powerful army.
From here you can play anyway you want to win the game- If all has gone well you will ether be ahead in tech or economy.
Build Order
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Hidden proxy pylon on 9
Proxy gateway on 10. Hold back one worker to be able to afford this
Chrono x2 workers
Pylon in main on 14-15 to power buildings at ramp
2 chrono boosted zealots.
When the 2nd zealot is building throw down an assimilator and a cyber core (at ramp)
Return zealots to base at this time
Forge at ramp when you have money
1 cannon at ramp if counter attack is expected.
Stargate hidden in base / not too close to ramp.
1-2 gateways in main, when ever you have surplus minerals. (Build troops with extra money)
Chrono out void and 1-2 phoenix to try to deny zerg expand.
When you start producing the first phoenix put down a fleet beacon
Expand when the mothership is building.
Replay(s)
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Responses
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VS roach push try to toss down an extra cannon or two and skip phoenix for more void rays.
VS hydras you need to delay the push for your mothership to arrive.
VS mass ling counter. Hold the ramp with your 2 zealots / cannon and probes. Consider another follow up like 4 gate instead of stargate.
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Intriguing to say the least.
To me this build seems a little gimmicky in the beginning. You were lucky in that replay the zerg went hatch first as it allowed your zealots to slash down a bunch of drones. Less greedy play would do well against any sort of early pressure. (I am also uncertain why he invested in infestors later, considering phoenix can pick em up and make them look silly.)
I feel a fundamental weakness of this build is the inability to take an expansion. If the zerg holds off your stargate pressure without incurring much damage, you're pretty much screwed on maps like XNC. The natural is just so wide open and ling floods can overrun you easily (you have no gas for sentries because its all going to the air units / fleet beacon), while the zerg can expand at will once his creep is spread decently. It definitely seems doable on a map like shakuras though. Have you seen any of white-ra's stargate play on that map? It's quite powerful.
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It seems very interesting, and I'm all for mothership play in PvX but, it seems really risky and we don't have enough replays to properly judge this yet since the zerg went for hatch first.
Q. How does this build stack up to a proper speedling expand since the proxy zealots probably won't do much
Q. What is the point of the Mothership exacty? The cloacking feild?
Q. Would a stargate expand be a better opening, since MC's 3 VR pressure forces them to get hydras anyway. Wouldn't teching to mothership better from that?.
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so zerg scouts you have no gateway at your main and makes a crap ton of speedlings, defends your 2 zealots and kills you outright before you can wall off. solid build
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On July 14 2011 17:03 ChineseWife wrote:
so zerg scouts you have no gateway at your main and makes a crap ton of speedlings, defends your 2 zealots and kills you outright before you can wall off. solid build
This.
But i think if you REMEMBER to wall off with the core, i think it may be viable.
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What's with this new routine of having one replay of a strategy working and then posting it without anything else? It seems like a 14 gas 14 pool that holds off the pressure can counter attack and win with ease. Post(obtain?) 4 or 5 more replays before you claim this comes close to working. Just seems like a cheese opening proxy gate into a cheesy stargate/mothership followup. You are allin from the start.
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this build is awful, its just a proxy. the follow up doesnt matter if your proxy failed cos you would be too far behind. if he doesnt hold your proxy and loses heaps of drones or a hatch or somthing, then you would win anyways if you just attack with a 4 gate or blink or watever later so why bother dicking around with a mothership?
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is this another version of dolkrad's mass nexus strategy? because that thread was closed even though he beats saracen with his "mass nexus" strategy aka "proxy gates"
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Italy12248 Posts
Considering it's a PvZ build, im looking forward to when Saracen finds out about this thread :D
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So essentially, you cheese the Zerg not once, but twice. As soon as he clears your gateways, he will send his lings to your main where (if you're lucky), you will have at most some probes, a zealot and a void ray. Now, if you're unlucky, which I would say you are, then you just lost the game and the proper thing to do is shut up, hit enter, type gg, hit enter, hit F10 and finally N.
Not to mentiont that you are mothership rushing...You will end up on when cheese fails with this build.
My opinion and declaration-what is wrong with you? Saracen made a thread saying not to make threads like this earlier this month (if someone could find it, that would be fantastic). Personally, I'm going to stick with my simple colossus deathball thingy build.
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I only had the one replay at home. I'm at my office now so I will upload more replays.
To respond to some comments:
If zerg goes mass ling this is a big advantage for me. I can have a wall at the ramp before they hit and a cannon shortly afterwords. I am usually able to hold the ramp (pending my micro). And if the zerg goes mass ling he usually doesn't have enough queens to save his 2nd base.
I will admit this is a gimmick build- but my aim is to make it a gimmick build with the fewest risks possible. If a zerg only builds 8 lings and does not have mining interrupted he will be able to stop the air attack and will certainly have the advantage- but not as large of an advantage as it might seem. I'm also sure there are some timing for a 2 base push that I haven't seen yet that will rip it apart.
I guess the end point of this build is to be fun to execute. You always have something going on and thus you are always entertained.
Going to sort through some more replays.
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@dooraven
- I usually show my zealots and run home to the ramp. The zerg may still overreact and try to break my ramp giving me an advantage.
- Cloaking field is nice but its the vortex that has allowed me to win the battles that are skewed in zergs favor.
- I have heard about many more valid ways to a mothership, this is just another one.
I have tried other options after the rush since I have a normally timed cybercore- like fast wg for expand or unexpected timing push. But those felt like they relied on the zerg thinking I was really far behind.
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This build seems kind of crazy. I understand that the Mothership can be helpful, though if you are rushing to it and you cheesed the Zerg so hard yet survived the Zerg may not have that much of an army, making your Mothership not cost-effective (unless the Zerg doesn't have detection). I recommend you scrap the Mothership part (maybe replace it with mass Gateways after you expand), though I appreciate your desire to implement it into your build
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Lots of replays added. Please take a look at the first 3 speedling games.
@edc
I tried this build a few times with rushed wg research. But I found that I was really weak to 2 base timings. The mothership allows me to take on armies twice my size if I pick my fights carefully. It may just be the novelty of the build that's making it work.
Edit: I have done this build about 35 times now. Most games end quickly with my zealots or the phoenix/void ray push. I've only posted one game like that in the replays because they are not interesting and simply the result of a poor response from the zerg.
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Fast expands
http://replayfu.com/r/fxScRj
Proxy gate, 9 drones when attack is over.
http://replayfu.com/r/7QVS4n FE failed
Proxy gate, 3 drones when attack is over.
Speedling openings
http://replayfu.com/r/266mMt
Proxy gate, 13 drones left, does a weak all in, expands with 13 drones.
http://replayfu.com/r/N9692c
He's hit by voidray/phoenix and his response is not to make drones which puts him behind.
http://replayfu.com/r/wnHzkp
Two base zerg, one base protoss behind cannons, zerg's response is to get lair.
http://replayfu.com/r/B5qsnv
Reacts too harshly to proxy gate, doesn't cancel spines, scouts stargate, proceeds to make too few queens.
Hidden Expands
http://replayfu.com/r/cPq37m
...he gets proxy gated and leaves.
Timing attacks
If your follow up had been DT the games would have looked the same. If your follow up had been mass gateways the games would have looked the same. If your follow up had been colossi the games would have looked the same. Enemies make a few mistakes after being proxy gated doesn't show the validity of any strategy.
I'm not saying it's bad or that you won't win games like this, but the core element is the proxy gateway, not the stargate or mothership. Anything works against someone who's lying on the ground.
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EPT
