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Hi there, (face here)
My name is Empty.973, I'm a masters terran player from the NA server and a Flash fan.
But before I get to the fanboyism, I've noticed like this ridiculous trend I can't seem to understand and never ever see this in Star1 play, and this is the ETA play. The ETA play consists of this, E (hot key to siege tanks), T (stim key for marines and marauders), and finally A (fucking attack moving). Now, this isn't absolutely terrible (it is). But why do that? Terran units, mostly factory units are slow as frozen shit, but do loads of DPS. Why am I losing when I try to push fast as shit? (Note: Question just asked by me, answered in the sentences prior). Ok, so how do we fix this trash?
*Queue Reggie Miller Video where he scores 8 points in 6 seconds, to take the lead*
(Thats how clutch this is)
I watch shitloads of Flash's games and I constantly wonder why the dudes such a baller. But because his skill and understanding of the game is at least 10000 times mine (low ball estimate). I looked to his games and took a very simple strategy. Take a position in the mid game after your Natural kicks in, and hold that shit for dear life, proceed to: lol and count money while wave after wave of shit crashes into it and you just count your cash you banked.
Simple right? Apparently not. Ok, I got pictures for you guys...
+ Show Spoiler +
Note the time and how much money I have, wow I suck!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DJFu5.jpg)
Shit just got real serious...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4OdSh.jpg)
Whats left of the mighty contain. (Note drone difference from 102, and this one: 103)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6XywU.jpg)
After a stimulus plan gets passed by congress. (I go to a mineral patch (Gold flavor) and drop a shit ton of mules) public work projects begin. (I started rebuilding my shit)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jVH3x.jpg)
Will it hold?!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pMG59.jpg)
You betcha, champ.
Ok, now that we're up a billion supply he's on like no units or anything it's time to a-move and win the game.
Note: Important to know timings, and stuff. Any questions, hesitate to ask.
Replay for the less lazy: (waiting for upload, can't wait any longer will ninja edit when this POS site works (sc2replayed) or my pos internet whatever shits not working right now, unlike this strat which you might as well call butter cause its on a roll) Oh it loaded, leaving this here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/2185
Edit: If someone can tell me why some pictures (All except first) Are all huge and shit and messed up in size let me know so I can edit. (Note they are all the same resolution)
Edit2: Remove spoiler tags from pictures because they wrecked the resolution. If mod or anyone can help <3.
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What is the point of this thread?
All it is showing is a slow contain/push up the Zerg's player's base by positioning seige tanks really well and using bunkers and turrets for extra defense.
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so....set up tanks and marines and depots and bunkers in middle of map
wait for zerg to attack from ONE angle (lol) and than you win?
very terran like haha, i dont get this thread...
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On May 21 2011 15:54 Velladin wrote:
What is the point of this thread?
All it is showing is a slow contain/push up the Zerg's player's base by positioning seige tanks really well and using bunkers and turrets for extra defense.
Right the point, why don't we see more players doing this?
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When do you add vikings into your mix for the Broods?
( I think turrets are there to prevent infestor bombs right?)
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On May 21 2011 15:54 johanngrunt wrote:
When do you add vikings into your mix for the Broods?
( I think turrets are there to prevent infestor bombs right?)
Check the replay, I had 3 reactor Starports ready to rumble. Also, Marine tank turret blob would buy me enough time to at least get two out before the transition begins. It also helps to keep tabs on his main to see when the gSpire goes up.
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On May 21 2011 15:54 itsempty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 15:54 Velladin wrote:
What is the point of this thread?
All it is showing is a slow contain/push up the Zerg's player's base by positioning seige tanks really well and using bunkers and turrets for extra defense. Right the point, why don't we see more players doing this?
Terrans have been doing this for a long time. Not everyone has the time to set up bunkers and turrets outside the enemy's base in order to help contain. Good tank positioning is a skill that separates good Terrans from bad ones.
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On May 21 2011 15:54 Kracklings wrote:
so....set up tanks and marines and depots and bunkers in middle of map
wait for zerg to attack from ONE angle (lol) and than you win?
very terran like haha, i dont get this thread...
Hard to understand position and stuff when youre bad I guess. So his plan to attack another angle is Nydus? Oh man, sounds like a winner.
Or doom drop my main? I don't think zergs win that many base racings. IDK bro, but attacking from another angle is a really good idea if you don't think about shit and love losing.
User was warned for this post
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This looks so old school i love it!; doom drops make me scared :p though lol
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On May 21 2011 15:59 Moonling wrote:
This looks so old school i love it!; doom drops make me scared :p though lol
That was my inspiration, so happy you think so.
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what do yo u do in base trade? you leave couple tanks in main?
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On May 21 2011 16:10 Moonling wrote:
what do yo u do in base trade? you leave couple tanks in main?
If you check out the replay, there are about 15-20 marines patrolling the top end of my base and turrets to deter a drop. If he nydus'd somewhere other than my main, I'd just sac it and reposition really. I don't think either are a good strat.
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So the strategy is to control the middle
However like you said, it is much more difficult than that... there are many things you need to worry about, such as counter attacks, how exactly to control the center, how to prepare for attacks that may come around your fortification, etc.
Do you have answers for these?
I'm assuming that the presence of the fortification in the middle is enough so that the Zerg is forced to get rid of it since if he counter attacks, the Terran can also just push and will probably win (?)
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What if instead of being bad your opponent splitted his army, ultras in the front, banes on the tanks by walikng were the xel'naga doesn't give you vision and hit where there are no depots/bunkers to protect and lings in your main ?
I mean, the main battle was so badly engage by him that any terran would have hold it.
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[B]Do you have answers for these?
I'm assuming that the presence of the fortification in the middle is enough so that the Zerg is forced to get rid of it since if he counter attacks, the Terran can also just push and will probably win (?)
You answered yourself, thats the beauty. You have that ace up your sleeve that says, "If you really want to do this we can." And thats never good for zerg. But yeah, if you have more questions I'd say watch the replay first. All my positioning is super, super intensional. I came up with this build on how to win with positioning alone, to see if it was viable on lower levels of play. (I average 115 - 120 apm this game, average is about 150 - 165).
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I'm not sure how your over aggressive presentation covers any of the popular zerg counters to a terran marine tank push. Yes you have a pretty defensive position in the center. But unless he attacks you directly in the center I don't see how it does anything but cuts the map in half as it naturally would have been in a very late game.
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On May 21 2011 16:40 Growiel wrote:
What if instead of being bad your opponent splitted his army, ultras in the front, banes on the tanks by walikng were the xel'naga doesn't give you vision and hit where there are no depots/bunkers to protect and lings in your main ?
I mean, the main battle was so badly engage by him that any terran would have hold it.
It's hard to get the idea of why this isn't possible from the replays alone. There are many drops and small engagements happening off screen that the pictures don't show. There is a reason why in one screenshot he has ~4bases and 65 drones. And then about 2 minutes (game time) later he has 40 drones and 2 mining bases. It's hard to break a contain with only 4 ultras, which is pretty much all he could afford. He went for broodlords, which is the obvious choice the break this contain.
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On May 21 2011 16:44 Probe1 wrote:
I'm not sure how your over aggressive presentation covers any of the popular zerg counters to a terran marine tank push. Yes you have a pretty defensive position in the center. But unless he attacks you directly in the center I don't see how it does anything but cuts the map in half as it naturally would have been in a very late game.
It's getting tiresome answering the same questions. Mainly check drone numbers. The position on the left side prohibits anything from running through that path, so everything would have to go through the destructible third rocks(read taking a while). Drones in one SS go from 65 and 4 mining bases to 2. If he over commits the response, you move the line up, because you know you can then. Thanks for reading my first post right now.
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Your definitely missing the point of my question. I like the idea so I want to know more about it.
In your replay:
Zerg does harass with mutas
Zerg runs all his shit through yours in the middle 2-3 times.
Terran runs marines to each expansion except his natural and absolutely massacres zergs forces.
It was more telling of your opponents lack of a desire to live than how game changingly powerful your strategy is. He could have done a lot better harassment and he could have built spines and kept forces about to defend his expansions.. but he didn't. He beat himself.
Include more replays please.
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Ok, will watch your replays before asking more 
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Is it really news to anyone that having a good position right in front of the zerg natural, fortified with tanks + lots of stuff, is generally a good thing and will usually win you the game if the zerg is not able to break it?
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This is good, its exactly how I want to do tank play. I watch loads of Flash-VODS for inspiration, he's such a boss (lold hard at your style of writing).
The genious about this is that, if you take the middle before he has creep all the way there, it is very hard to flank you. With drops (marines are obviously super disposable) and splitting the map in half you are basicly forcing him to try to break you, and he really don't want to do that.
Good post!
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i tried this too but usualy 20 mutas fly into my base 1shot turrets and rape my eco 
But yeah building statinary defense at your siege tanks is a good move and on the old lost tempel u had autowin when u sieged at his watchtower.
Today most maps have to many alternative routes out.
I feel it works best on taldarim when u siege below his natural and shoot into the mineral line and fortify your position there. He can still counter attack but its very annyoing because he has to rally everything around and looses his natural.
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If he flank your army he whould won that fight. The zerg throw the game away on that attack.
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Please show more replays, including some where the zerg doesn't fuck the engagement up completely.
Don't get me wrong - your contain is strong, but it just seems like it relies on the zerg charging your defenses rather than going "screw you, Ill macro up a ton of brood lords / mutalisks and fuck your base up".
10 Ultralisks would've destroyed your contain (although the supply depots are a clever counter to a-moving).
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Sweden33719 Posts
1) Creep will be in the way of doing this.
2) Taking open space like this serves.... what purpose again? He has absolutely no motivation for attacking into your perfectly setup army when he could just send his 20 mutas into your main until you move somewhere.
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If you can get the fortification up before creep spread has reached the tower, you can drop. He has a hard time dealing with them because you have the highway sieged up. So either he engages you or he will continue losing hatches. Oh great jinro do not laught at my stupidity, but this is what I imagine would be good about this.
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Not a bad replay. Could use more though.
I'm admittedly a bit confused though, what exactly is new or revolutionary about this? Methodical marine/tank pushes supported by heavy harassment is pretty standard for the matchup.
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On May 21 2011 17:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
1) Creep will be in the way of doing this.
2) Taking open space like this serves.... what purpose again? He has absolutely no motivation for attacking into your perfectly setup army when he could just send his 20 mutas into your main until you move somewhere.
Right I agree entirely, The goal is to force him to break the ocntain or he loses otherwise. I'm sure you know that better than I. Best of luck in Korea.
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If you threaten his natural then do this after clearing the creep with a handful of supply depots and turrets to muck up flanks and create chokes. By getting in his face you force him to confront you instead of just flying around and it cuts off lots of flanking routes and it really minimizes time for him to reinforce if your already in his base after a battle.
It's not really that practical but in some situations it can be helpful.
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it's not possible in sc2, you can't really do the terran mech positioning game. reason is mech is just overall weaker, and that you have no real answer to muta clouds. no irradiates, no valks...do it scfou style, it works.
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On May 21 2011 18:51 itsempty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 17:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
1) Creep will be in the way of doing this.
2) Taking open space like this serves.... what purpose again? He has absolutely no motivation for attacking into your perfectly setup army when he could just send his 20 mutas into your main until you move somewhere.
Right I agree entirely, The goal is to force him to break the ocntain or he loses otherwise. I'm sure you know that better than I. Best of luck in Korea.
I don't quite get why you cant see that the Zerg in this game made terrible engagements, and keep claiming tanks in the center of the map is a contain (there's tons of space for the Zerg to run around your tanks, clearly viable in the first 2 pictures before your tank like is actually spread out enough).
Yer strategy is reasonable and should be the aim for any tank strategy, just this game as an example is a pretty poor example of why its so good. An extream analogy would be a zerg showing how powerful a 6 pool is with a replay of him vs a fast expo strat, sure it works but how does it fair against an opponent who doesn't throw everything at your tank line?
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Don't try to compare sc2 to sc1 it's completely different...
You CAN'T play the campy terran in sc2 while it works in sc1 unless you are using pure mech. This is because biomech simply doesn't have that diehard defensive capabilities where it can hold nearly everything. You have to play aggresive with drops or pushes or zerg simply outmacro's you and finishes you off with broodlords. In TvP playing passive is even more a garanteed loss.
Playstyle wise it's more like this
terran sc1 = protoss sc2
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Why you don't use a few Planetary Fortresses as well?They are better for containment,cost no supply,can take a lot of punishment and block a good amount of space, which i find ideal for what you want to accomplish.A few PF,few turrets,few tanks,few scattered bunkers and marines and the zerg will never want to attack.
Having said that though I do have to agree with Jinro, why would a zerg ever want to attack your contain?He can either go pure air and demolish your bases with ease,or use smart nydus worm placements to travel from base to base like Spanishiwa does.Destroy everything and be back in time to defend your units if you ever attack.If you try to attack his expansions,he can instantly teleport through nydus worms to defend.A few spine crawlers in the mineral line will deny or delay any drops as well.Zerg players really underestimate the power of Nydus.
Contains like this work wonders for 2vs2 though,if the map allows.
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On May 21 2011 15:54 itsempty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 15:54 Velladin wrote:
What is the point of this thread?
All it is showing is a slow contain/push up the Zerg's player's base by positioning seige tanks really well and using bunkers and turrets for extra defense. Right the point, why don't we see more players doing this?
because most zergs are smart enough to avoid the contain, or kill it before it contains (or whine about terran imba;P;P)
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Most smart erg players wouldn't just attack straight onto this. They would try and flank or drops, basically something to avoid this.
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OK, I am having a incredibly hard time taking this entire thread seriously, except for what Jinro said since he is one of the few people to post yet that realizes how dumb this is.
Zerg has absolutely no reason to attack a position in the center of the map that is not threatening him. I am going to tech straight to hive, sit on my 4 bases, and harass the heck out of your main and expo's while your entire army thinks it is doing something by being in the center...
This isn't even a contain.
Heck, say my muta ball and my lings are running around the map and you decide to go for the base trade... I just bring my army back and sandwich your force as it attacks my natural.
It seems to me that the zerg in this game didn't realize that he didn't have to attack into your fortified location in the center at all.
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I don't really see Terran being able to do the uber mech army into slow push into divide the map/entrench unless the Terran metagame shifts to make going slow push uber mech army even desireable or feasible especially late game.
There's a reason why playing Terran was so freaking hard in BW. Then again I don't think macro zergs had it much easier. :\
At the same time, it would be nice if people let off the stim and a-move buttons a little more.
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On May 21 2011 15:58 itsempty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 15:54 Kracklings wrote:
so....set up tanks and marines and depots and bunkers in middle of map
wait for zerg to attack from ONE angle (lol) and than you win?
very terran like haha, i dont get this thread... Hard to understand position and stuff when youre bad I guess. So his plan to attack another angle is Nydus? Oh man, sounds like a winner. Or doom drop my main? I don't think zergs win that many base racings. IDK bro, but attacking from another angle is a really good idea if you don't think about shit and love losing.
Your opponent basically a-moved from the north instead of getting a 270-360 degree flank, which you could have done nothing about.
Don't be so aggressive when you're giving someone else's argument the worst possible interpretation.
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On May 21 2011 18:51 itsempty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 17:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
1) Creep will be in the way of doing this.
2) Taking open space like this serves.... what purpose again? He has absolutely no motivation for attacking into your perfectly setup army when he could just send his 20 mutas into your main until you move somewhere.
Right I agree entirely, The goal is to force him to break the ocntain or he loses otherwise. I'm sure you know that better than I. Best of luck in Korea.
Basically what just happened is 10 people told you "why are you setting up in the middle of the map, there's no point," to which you replied "You are an idiot, what are they going to do, doom drop me?"
But then Jinro comes in and says the exact same thing and you say, "yes I agree entirely, you're so smart and <3"
What the hell, man?
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I thought he was saying that you have to make zerg suicide his army or building a giant line in the middle of the map is dumb.
Not that he addressed any concerned about being flanked or dealing the mutas that are killing his base but still.
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On May 21 2011 18:51 itsempty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 17:56 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
1) Creep will be in the way of doing this.
2) Taking open space like this serves.... what purpose again? He has absolutely no motivation for attacking into your perfectly setup army when he could just send his 20 mutas into your main until you move somewhere.
Right I agree entirely, The goal is to force him to break the ocntain or he loses otherwise. I'm sure you know that better than I. Best of luck in Korea.
I don't know how you do to agree when he says "He has absolutely no motivation for attacking" and you say "The goal is to force him to break the contain"
By the way in the replay the other player isn't really agressive with his mutas, he never attacks your bases with it. By the way you had not a single turret on your expands, and not more than 4 marines...
The main problem I see with that is that this positionning, except the xel'naga tower, don't offer any advantage : you don't cut his bases in 2, you don't even prevent him from getting to your side of the map. But you invest money to protect it, that doesn't go in the real key points (like your expos).
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On May 22 2011 00:32 Antisocialmunky wrote:
I thought he was saying that you have to make zerg suicide his army or building a giant line in the middle of the map is dumb.
Not that he addressed any concerned about being flanked or dealing the mutas that are killing his base but still.
Didn't he say he keeps a ton of turrets and marines back at his main to prevent mutas and doom drops?
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Good luck with that. 
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As Jinro said, the obvious problem with this build is that he can literally just maneuver around your army...
Simply responding "lol Zerg doesn't win a base race" is not only an awful principle to base a strategy on, but you also really don't deal with this fundamental flaw in your gameplan in the OP.
If you can postulate a decent, realistic reason why Zerg would NOT want to just send 30 slings around that center position and pick off naked expos and mineral lines, then we can start talking about copying Flash's play. While not well versed in his games myself, I'm pretty sure that he takes such things into account when sieging up a position on the map.
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United States15275 Posts
Please don't pat yourself on the back for deriving a BW-based strategy that's been in use in SC2 for months and months. Any Terran worth his salt knows how to set up a siege line and reinforce it. And any decent Zerg never attacks into a siege line directly. It doesn't take a genius like Flash to figure this out.
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Theres a top right pathway and a bottom left pathway he can use to either hit your 3rd or your natural. Whats the point of taking the middle when he can swing around both sides to kill... everything except your army.
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The best part about this tactic is that the zerg can't just mass mutas and harras the shit out of you or run his army past your siege line and kill your main... oh wait.
So, what do you do when the zerg dose that may i ask  ?
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pretty obvious OP is trolling, cant believe so many fell for it
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This is so not worthy of a thread. "Slow crawl across map while zerg attacks into fortified posisions he could run around" There is no BO and all you do afterwards is insult people that ask questions.
12 pretty pictures don't make a good strategy thread. It needs some analysis.
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Well, the tanks in the second picture are very well positioned, also that entire position is very well fortified with supply depots and bunkers.
When a terran player puts this much money into a postion, you need either broodlords and a whole bunch of corruptors or lots and lots of luck, OR maybe you can ignore that position all together ? do some drops in the main ? in which case the terran player will try to slowly push up, than you can maybe wait for him to make a mistake or setup a flank trap type of think and hope he does not scan while bottle necking.
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PoT?
Seriously slow pushing zerg has been the ideal thing to do since SC1,
Nothing has been shown in this thread of importance, considering zerg gets 3 bases in which they can get infestor ling ultra or infestor ling broodlord, etc etc in which to just rape face the whole terran outpost.
Seriously this isn't a strategy it is like a statement... Try again?
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Aren't hellions hotkey E? -_-
I don't see this working unless you cut off all other means of attacks, and mass turrets + sensor towers. 20+ flock of mutas with +2 attack rape marines, rape turrets, and plain fuck up positioning as a whole. I don't see how you'd hold a 3 angle sling bling muta flank, esp if there is are no thors, and they target tanks with mutas. Bring in OLs with a few banes in them and just enjoy.
AKA has to be in a choke point, cutting 1 base from another, or keeping them from any other route of attack. Shakuras is a good map for this, as it is 1 side vs other
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BnMiY.jpg)
