So, in order to conquer my fear of 1v1, I am planning to get into masters in all team leagues all the way down to 1v1 (I am a 2k diamond protoss, but I quit 1v1's about 2 months ago before the masters leagues came out).
However, in 4v4 (And possibly 3v3), I find that its very difficult to have an impact on the overall game. If blizzard decides to match you up with 3 silver players against 4 diamond players, no matter what I do I won't be able to change the overall outcome of the game just by being an above average player.
So, what strategy's have you seen in 4v4's that could heavily influence the outcome of the game?
This can be anything from a cheese strategy, to simply getting everyone to do some kind of timing attacks.
I play protoss, but am also comfortable playing zerg and terran.
Here's what many people do when trying to get into masters 4v4/3v3: They get two team members, that counts as 4v4 random. Generally speaking if one person can hold on long enough to get 12 barracks 2 bases without the other teammates dying, it's good game. Marines imo are OP in team games.
Usually in my games I just do economic harassment with baneling carpet bombs and mutas. I also plant land mines in the opponents gold bases and all over the regular attack paths. My job is solely to make my other three teammate have a WAY easier time.
Occasionally, I will act as the wallet for my teammates. I will always play terran when doing this and just act as my teammates wallet, with static d EVERYWHERE and at least 150 supply worth of scv and mules. I have at least three OC on standby.
On March 15 2011 06:17 salito wrote: Playing team games isn't going to help you conquer your fear of 1v1. It'll just cause you to play more team games.
As far as 4v4 rt strategy goes, you can only do so much as one man. Just tell your team to rush at the 7-9 minute mark.
On the contrary, working my way down from 4v4 to 1v1 can only make my transition into 1v1 easier, therefore, helping me conquer my fear of 1v1. I struggle with 1v1's mentally as all my gaming life I have played the team based game of counter strike.
Westy -- team games don't really translate well to 1v1. It's kind of like playing a lot of chinese checkers with the hope of getting good at chess.
Anyways, in 3v3 and 4v4 matchups, the map pools call for two strategies. First, with maps where the players have their own bases, with separate chokes, the best strategies are essentially stages of rushes. For example, you might see a winning team launch a speedling rush on one opponent, followed up by a 4-gate and roach rush on a second opponent, then a tank push on the fourth. The team under attack is at a disadvantage because whenever one player sends help to their friend, they become vulnerable for an attack of their own.
On the other hand, maps with shared starting bases tend toward big all-in pushes of fast-to-produce units. You're better off here when your team all prepares a bunch of early, easy-to-mass units: Lots of roaches and lots of marines and lots of stalkers, for example. Then all attack at once. Really successful teams will wall in against this, but that takes some coordination sometimes unlikely in random games.
On March 15 2011 06:17 salito wrote: Playing team games isn't going to help you conquer your fear of 1v1. It'll just cause you to play more team games.
As far as 4v4 rt strategy goes, you can only do so much as one man. Just tell your team to rush at the 7-9 minute mark.
On the contrary, working my way down from 4v4 to 1v1 can only make my transition into 1v1 easier, therefore, helping me conquer my fear of 1v1. I struggle with 1v1's mentally as all my gaming life I have played the team based game of counter strike.
Playing team games won't help you transition to 1s because the strategies and maps are completely different. If anything, it'll make your transition harder because you won't have practiced hardly any 1v1 strategies and won't know what to do against each matchup on each map.
There is no reason you should be scared in 1v1s. Disregarding smurfs, I believe that the ladder system does a good job of matching players of similar skill. If you want to get over your fear, then I would suggest watching all of your replays. If you are very much outmatched in your league, then all the better. In each game, especially your losses, there is a lesson to learn. Until you are willing to get your ass whooped and be happy about it, then you will not improve. You will only improve in 1v1s by playing 1v1s. That seems to be your ultimate goal, so why waste your time in team games where you can't determine as easily what won or lost you your game and where you can't learn what builds beat each other 1v1?
I've been trying to get masters in Random 3v3 and 4v4 these past couple days (got it in 3v3 today).
In 4s, what I've come to realize is that I normally do better when I just do my own thing. I've played with guys who went mass carriers ... I've seen mass overseers, mass queens; the strats in random games are never ending.
If you really want to get into masters, then I would suggest getting 2-3 (for 3s and 4s) partners and doing it that way as mentioned above
On March 15 2011 06:58 woowoo wrote: Play Terran. Build Barracks. Rally at enemy base. fill the queue.
Marines are OP, I've seen too much all T teams doing this.
Although it seems this thread is actually more about getting you to sack up and play 1v1s, I'll have to chime in and agree here (except "fill the queue").
I play random when I 4v4, and when I get Terran, I find myself about half the time going 6rax:
depot rax orbital constant marine production and produce up to about 18 SCV save up money, build 5 more raxes, constant marine and depot production.
I find that this usually either wins games outright (along with speedling/zealot/whatever support) or puts us ahead by killing or injuring one or more players. Then I expo, start mining gas, and tech up and usually go into marauder/viking.
That said, the most powerful combo I've seen recently involves zerg players going mass speedling, and a terran player going mass hellions. The mobility is unmatched, and they destroy pretty much anything and come out at a pretty fast time. If a player has banelings or roach wall or whatever, you just go kill someone else and win anyway because speedling/hellion is so fast.
Got to love how half the posts in this thread have nothing to do with what I am asking.
@skyR @aust1nz @BriMikon - You are all wrong. Yes tactics and strategy wise anything other than 1v1 is no help, however the majority of the game is mechanics and macro, and 4v4/3v3/2v2 is the second best thing for practising them, only bested by 1v1's themself. And I get far enough strategy from the countless hours of reply's watched, and strategy threads I have read.
Will try the marine strategy, thanks woowoo and Dromar.
Westy, I agree that you can kinda break the ice and shake some mental blocks off by playing team games. But you will have to bear in mind that most games will involve only early tier units in 3v3. In 4v4, usually one player goes into real macro mode while the other three keep up the pressure.
You will get really good at maxing out tier 1-1.5 units, mechanics wise
Again a lot depends on the map. A general strategy is whenever the opponents are grouped up, its better to control the map and prevent expansions. When they are separated, abuse that fact and try to kill one person off.
What I do, is I make sure I can kill what people usually do in team games. Make sure you can kill marines, zerglings, zealots, stalkers. I usually do Hellion/Tank/Thor. And ask one of my teammates to help me with anti-air, so I can use my thors more freely and not have to keep them alive vs mutas and such.
Better still, try to get a buddy like sNatch said. Say play Terran and get a Toss/Zerg buddy and do 3v3s and 4v4s. Its significantly better.
Zerg is the most overpowered race in team games, so if you're just looking to simply make Masters, there are some easy pushes. You simply want to mass about two dozen speedlings at 5 minutes. I can provide a more detailed BO if you want. Then coordinate with your allies to have ranged units (stalkers or marines) and to push at 5-6. Generally, the team that pools their armies quickly will achieve a significant advantage.
In the end, the most effective team is one that simply communicates. There isn't a build that will let you beat 4 players. Rather, you need to push together with your team with complementing unit mixes.
Note that many of the above posters have a point. Team games, especially 3s and 4s, will not help in terms of 1s. Team games are foremost reliant on coordination and communication whereas scouting, micro, and army composition is key to reaching master 1s. If that is your ultimate goal, I would advise playing 1v1 in user created maps or to find a 1s Masters practice partner.
Expanding in Team Games on the Current Map Pool is risky to say the least. Constant aggression and map control are the keys to victory.
Dude, thats totally a lie. Zerg you will see tons of early ling pushes, mass lings, brood lords, infestors, etc. Protoss you will tons of stalkers with blink, mass lots, immortals, lots of colossus, motherships, no carriers tho. Terran: BCs, tank, thors.
Trust me, 4 v4 is so fun because there is so much variety of armies that is actually fun to play rather than laddering the crap out.
That approach isn't bad, it's less pressure on you to do well in team games. Plus it's a good time to work on your macro/micro/builds (though not everything transfers over to 1v1, obviously).
In 4v4 always have 1 zerg to harrass with early lings and then muta. In late game have them make roaches to tank damage and eventually tech switch tot he ULTRA! Thats usually my plan of action and it got me to 4v4 random platinum ranked 3.
Get 3 friends and practice a rush timing. I like the 4:30 timing, just when speed for lings kicks in. P can do 2 gate cronoboosted gateway units and t can do 3 rax rines. remove the non rush friendly maps in the map pool, then join 4on4 random as a team of 3 and beat random noobs with no team play. I guarantee this will take you to masters if you can just execute the build correctly.
if you're playing 4v4 random, you have to pray that your allies are cooperative and/or competent. and then you should be a leader (since you cant always depend on them to be one) and organize things during the first few minutes. if you attack together and theyre not together, you will probably kill/cripple one guy and then they cant catch up.
and pray that it doesn't get to late game, unless you have a good computer. you will have so much difficulty micro-ing your units.
I'm a low plat 1v1 player and i got into 4v4 diamond a few days ago.
I would just say that 4v4 is so much different from 1v1. i play as a terran and every single game, i just say "Rush@5mins, no tech up, no expo" then i go mass marine myself. With this, i got into diamond after 30 games. It's just that you have to take out 4 players base-shared maps, so your rush is more effective.
i suck at macro but it doesn't really matter much if everyone is rushing in your team. As someone mentioned, you have to spot who is NOT attacking. they're probably teching up. If they succeed to tech up, abuse the mobility of your tier 1 units. medivac drops/mass zerglings running into his bases/muta what so ever/wraplots whatsoever. keep dancing around and each of you tech up. Normally you should be able to match them as you should be 4v3 or 4v2 by that time.
Wondering any convincing strat other than rushing? i'm new to SC2, so higher level player may advise on this. Many thanks!
On March 15 2011 23:51 redwingxviii wrote: i believe playing 1v1 will greatly improve your 4v4. i believe playing 4v4 will only help a very little bit with your 1v1.
Agreed, the OP's plan seems like the slowest way to actually improve their 1v1 ability. Westy himself already said playing 1v1s would be a better/faster way of improving, so I don't get why you'd want to do this.
Team games reward highly abusive strats, anything that one person can do that forces a response from ALL opponents is a massive economic gain. For example, one player makes DTs and a warp prism, and buzzes around the whole map doing warp ins near mineral lines. This will force defensive structures out of all opponents, cannons, spores, turrets, etc. The cost of defensive structures for three players times the number of bases they each have greatly outweighs the cost it takes to tech DTs. Oh, and while you were building this crap DT guy got collosus or HTs online and could probably outexpand you.
One thing that 4vs4 has going for it that you don't really learn in 1vs1s is coping with information overflow. There is so much going on in each 4vs4 (essentially you start with a 4 base macro game right from the start) that playing 1vs1 afterwards feels quite simple (I only have to react to what one guy is doing?). But obviously you won't learn proper timings or how to counter a specific unit composition.
I'm a true (no prearranged parties) random 4vs4er in master league and here is what I found helped me climb there:
What you should not do:
Rush builds: I advise against it, not because it's so ineffective, but because it is dependent on your teammates being competent. If you want to get into masters, you obviously have to be the best player in your team a lot of the time and with a rush build you cannot carry weaker players. Think of it this way: With a rush build you have a very limited influence on the outcome of the game. If your teammates are weaker than the opponents then you will lose, if they are stronger or equally strong you will win. Coinflipping like this won't bring you into masters. However if you are a weak player doing rushes is probably the best help you can give your team.
Gimmick builds (cloaked banshee/ fast dt/blue flame drop): These are usually highly effective at all levels. However you should not do them, because again they will not help you carry the team. You will usually succeed in taking out one or two of the weaker players, but will get countered by their stronger allies and that leaves you only with cursing your allies for playing crap. I was stuck in high diamond for a long time doing these gimmick builds, because you simply lose too many games where your allies can't leverage the economic advantage your build gives them.
Air builds: Again I advise you not to do it. Air units are essentially harassment units, so the above paragraph applies.
What you should do: Scout early. I usually scout at nine or ten supply. You will usually see one of two things: Extremely early allins (2gate protoss, 6-8pool zergs) , or standard builds.
The reason for the early scout is that you should fast expand if you don't see an early allin. The maps are generally large enough that your expand will have (almost) paid off already by the time they have coordinated on their 6-7 min attack. After repelling the push, you should be in good shape to have your macro game kick in and you should be able to carry your weaker allies.
Put a spotter in their attack path. This is huge and nearly noone does it. You absolutely have to keep tabs on where their huge ball of death is at all times. When they are barreling up your ramp it is far too late.
Trust your allies: I know it's hard, but it's no use constantly checking up on what they do or giving them "advice" how to play. It will lead only to mistakes in your play. Focus on your game and you will be fine.
React properly to attacks: Once an attack comes you have two options: Help your ally, or counter the opponents. Always do one of those, never stay in your base and merrily build for yourself. The decision to counter/help should be mostly driven by the time it would take you to get there.
Unit selection:
There are two aspects that dominate all other unit aspects in 4vs4: Mobility and Aoe damage. If a unit has neither you should almost never build it (immortals and hydras are the main offenders). A 4vs4 is a chaotic affair of big balls of units, so you need to be able to react with your army very quickly to threats and be able to deal out the AoE damage.
Excellent zerg units are: Speedlings for expansion control, you will almost always find an expansion that is not suitably defended. Infestors for fungal growth. Absolutely amazing spell after the patch. Roaches: Fast and costefficient.
Excellent protoss units are: Colossi: Excellent mobility and AoE damage. I find myself always going for them if I random protoss. Speed zealots: With the patch change that allows them to always hit, they are very hard to kite and they are one of the most costefficient units in the game with decent mobility. Blink stalkers: Excellent mobility, however I personally don't like them as much since their damage does not scale well in lategame.
Excellent terran units are: Marines, nothing really beats upgraded marines in a 4vs4, except for huge collossi balls. Extremely mobile with stim and medivacs and dps is obviously off the charts. Blue flame hellions: huge mobility and Aoe damage, however they are very microintensitive, so only use them if your multitasking is decent. Siege tanks: These are mapdependent, only use them on maps that have narrow paths that simultaneously block off your expansions. Otherwise the lack of mobility makes them subpar.
In all seriousness, anyone who is caught teching into a unit that costs more than 200 resources combined is breaking the one rule in team games, making units and attacking. Chances are when you have 3 people attacking one guy the one guy will die before their teammates get there.
4v4 all zerg teams should do simultaneous 6 pool, with 12 going to 1 base and 12 at another. You will instantaneous kill 2 opponents and then regroup and all attack 3rd and then 4th guy. Build Banes if you need. But multiplayer is almost all cheese so I don’t believe it will help you with your 1v1.
Well, in team games, the majority of people cheese at the beginning. In teams with more than 2, 3 zergs, you can pretty much expect three 6pools. I saw a group in diamond who won like 20-30 games in a row by all 6 pooling, and since it's random teams, you can't assume everyone is going to know how to fend it off.
But anyways, the strategy my friends and I do basically involves 2 people (in the front) harrassing and protecting from attacks and the back teching up to carriers, broodlords, etc. I don't know how helpful this is to you, but good luck man!
And if you want to conquer your fears of 1v1, I like the custom 1v1 obs games, but it's up to you.
There is only one way to play random 4's. Here is a brief tutorial.
1. Pick zerg 2. 8 Pool 3. Handicap one of your opponents and by doing so scare the rest of your opponents into sitting at their ramps for 10 minutes. 4. Expand 5. Drone up to full saturation on 2 bases 6. Go 2 hatch 2 queen 4 gas speed roaches on two bases and what the fstomp all 4 of them
1v1 is more difficult than team games. APM is just higher and people are more skilled. Team games won't help you. If you like to play team games then that's another story. To win you have to play with a high APM since most peoples' APM here often is pretty low. 70 - 100 should do.
My experience is that the most effective strategy is to lead the game or adjust if someone else does. 1v4 is impossible if they are good so communicate with your team. Not just like: "rush?" "attack at 6min?" but throughout the whole game. It also makes the game more fun. Remember that any information you gather goes directly to your team such as map control and scouting. And scout and counter (or make someone counter) cheesy stuff like 6/7/10 pools, cannon rush, mass lings or something similar that often surprise people. Apart from that, just play well!
From my experience, 4v4 didn't help me do better in 1v1 at all. In 4v4, I win a lot by rushing to Dark Templar, or I just 2-gate on 10. If you do a standard build in 4v4, better teams will just waylay you with early pressure. So I don't count team games as a learning tool.
I actually tried to use my 4v4 build logic in 1v1 and lost to a bunch of silver players, and got demoted out of Platinum. Never again will I try to cheese in 1v1.
On a side note, I'm 22-7 in 4v4 and the system won't promote me out of silver, even though I've been consistently beating Diamond players. It's kind of annoying.
I've made masters in random 3's (90-48) and 4's. Mobility and aggression are very important. If you open with mobile, aggressive units, you can just kill people and it's very hard for your opponents to do anything about it.
Possible builds I would recommend: Protoss: -My standard is fast DTs off of 2gates and putting down a nexus right before the dark shrine goes up at 7 minutes. Then send 1 DT to each mineral line. This has the potential to do a lot of damage and lets you smoothly transition into blink stalkers off of a strong economy with possible colossi. -4gate making primarily stalkers is also good
Zerg: -10 pool speedlings is arguably the best RT build there is. You gain a lot of map control, can destroy undefended bases and still have a reasonable economy.
Terran: -Gas before barracks hellions is strong -Bio play is viable
dude, dont be afraid to play 1v1...i think you're one of those people who are afraid of 1v1s because they have no teammates to ask help...heed the replies here that playing team games to improve 1v1 is much slower...
Dont bother with infestors/HT's when the game hits the 30 minute mark unless you have a monstrous computer. The lag in huge team fights is so tremendous your storm/fungal will miss horribly; Better off massing a unit that you can 1a.
4v4 is a nice place to start if you want to try random and learning the other races, but not much else.
Otherwise, it's really not worth it to worry about winning in 4v4R to masters, even for portraits, unless you're playing with friends. It's the most frustrating cesspool in SC2.
You need to be vocal and tell your teammates exactly what to do. You need to take sole responsibility for scouting. You need to be responsible for everything to win, since playing RT will be you vs a team of 4 80-90% Masters players quite often.
On March 15 2011 08:07 Westy wrote: Got to love how half the posts in this thread have nothing to do with what I am asking.
@skyR @aust1nz @BriMikon - You are all wrong. Yes tactics and strategy wise anything other than 1v1 is no help, however the majority of the game is mechanics and macro, and 4v4/3v3/2v2 is the second best thing for practising them, only bested by 1v1's themself. And I get far enough strategy from the countless hours of reply's watched, and strategy threads I have read.
Will try the marine strategy, thanks woowoo and Dromar.
I used to think like this as well, however I have seen a better way of looking at it. Youre talking about getting in to masters; yes, mechanics and macro will get you to diamond, but when youre talking about getting from diamond to masters, i believe it to be more about game sense and appropriate decision making, as well as some small micro things. This is the reason 1v1 is SO much different from team games. in 1v1 it's ALL up to you, YOU have to scout, YOU have to respond appropriately. as it stands youre appearing to blame the fact that youre not masters on other people. ergo the way to avoid this is to just man up and 1v1.
Yours truly, a former like minded member of the TL community
All the best with 1v1s, yea its scary as hell, but its such a rush.
One thing I've been doing when playing with completely random teammates as protoss is doing an 8 double-gate into zealot/templar or zealot/void ray. It beats any 1-gate core build (obviously, although I wouldn't use it in 1v1), and many zerg openers as well, and can deal some damage to terran if he's excessively greedy (tech labs before units etc).
This pressure immediately puts the aggression factor on your team's side, and encourages your teammates to also attack. Once they are in "attack mode" you can take the chance to grab an expansion and macro a bit.
The build I use is something like this:
8 pylon (return and mine 1 trip) 8 gate (return and mine 1 trip) 8 gate (create a 1-gap wall for your zealot to wall off if possible). 8 probe (chrono) 9 probe 10 zealot (chrono) 12 zealot (queue on the first gate, then chrono) 14 zealot (2nd gate) 16 pylon @100minerals 16 zealot
zealots until you feel like transitioning...
2 gas + cybercore (+6 on gas) Citadel warp gate zealot charge - Use your chronos either on zealot charge or your gateways, NOT warp gate unless you are 100% sure you'll do a proxy timing as it finishes. Prefer zealot charge though unless you KNOW you won't be needing charge for the next time X. Usually I chrono zealot charge hard until about half way, and then if I don't think I'll be in combat I save chrono for double forge or chrono my units.
Expand Double Forge
+2-4 gates Voids or Temps chrono double forge until maxed.
If you prefer zerg I highly recommend executing my 26 speedling expand ZvZ build. In 4v4 there will be an open wall somewhere. Split the lings up if it's a shared base and go to down on at least two players, targeting as many workers as possible. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192260
The mentality behind team games is aggression. If the aggression is timed well, the opponents will either lose or be very far behind. Team games will teach you how to be aggressive and time your attacks with others, but it will teach you nothing about 1v1 timings and understanding the metagame that is 1v1. It simply won't.
On March 15 2011 06:17 salito wrote: Playing team games isn't going to help you conquer your fear of 1v1. It'll just cause you to play more team games.
As far as 4v4 rt strategy goes, you can only do so much as one man. Just tell your team to rush at the 7-9 minute mark.
On the contrary, working my way down from 4v4 to 1v1 can only make my transition into 1v1 easier, therefore, helping me conquer my fear of 1v1. I struggle with 1v1's mentally as all my gaming life I have played the team based game of counter strike.
Playing team games won't help you transition to 1s because the strategies and maps are completely different. If anything, it'll make your transition harder because you won't have practiced hardly any 1v1 strategies and won't know what to do against each matchup on each map.
my friend prefers team matches over 1v1, he ended up getting diamond and then did ~20 1v1 games and got diamond. when masters came out he became top 8 master really really fast (1st place) in all team brackets and then in 1v1 he win traded up to masters since he didn't like the bracket. Then when leagues were locked and there were new icons he just decided to dominate everyone in 1v1 since he wanted that icon and got top 8 in his masters division and ended up being top 8 in all masters (probably would have gotten 1st if he cared about 1v1).
Honestly after seeing 3.5k masters protoss make a random timing of 9 gates w/ charge and +1 armor off 2 bases without even scouting the terran and then attacking into a meching terran, after which going stalker HT and attacking down a ramp into a planetary fortress + seige tanks with his HTs stuck behind stalkers... I've decided progamers are amazing at this game and the majority of masters players are not special
If you're playing 4v4 because you fear 1v1, you should consider playing FFA instead.
4v4 is really about strong early attack, and not losing your army to multiple army.
Another huge problem is that bnet wants you to have 50% victory, and you will end playing versus arranged team, or versus 3 arranged who play 4v4 so even with a good early strategy it might not work because they will defend in common.
Other posts already give advice, try to convice your teammate attack or try to setup a plan. As protoss if you don't cannon rush or 2 gate, i suggest DT, because you will get huge map control, if you know how to split DT and how to punish them if they leave the base.
On March 15 2011 06:14 eXwOn wrote: Here's what many people do when trying to get into masters 4v4/3v3: They get two team members, that counts as 4v4 random. Generally speaking if one person can hold on long enough to get 12 barracks 2 bases without the other teammates dying, it's good game. Marines imo are OP in team games.
With the new patch you can't play team games with less than the required amount of players... Eg. 2 players in a party can't play 3v3.
As long as you coordinate with your team mates you should be fine considering all the different match ups, maps etc that you can get in 4v4. Don't be a dick by not adapting to the team gameplan, like when your teammates want to go for an early push and you just go fast expanding.
On March 15 2011 06:17 salito wrote: Playing team games isn't going to help you conquer your fear of 1v1. It'll just cause you to play more team games.
As far as 4v4 rt strategy goes, you can only do so much as one man. Just tell your team to rush at the 7-9 minute mark.
I have to disagree with you on that , just like the person who posted , I used to have a fear of going on 1v1 ladder because too many people tell new players to just play the campaign , do the challenges then go to 1v1 ladder , this may work for some people but for others it doesn't , what the person posting is doing will actually help him alot if he actually focuses on learning build orders and macro.
However once anyone who plays team games decides to play 1v1s , there will be a slight difficulty coping with timings and this is something everyone has to work on , but over all I think it's a very good step.
plus if you actually play team games , you would know that rushing 7-9 isn't the best strategy , alot of people already posted very good advise so I won't repeat .
On March 15 2011 06:14 eXwOn wrote: Here's what many people do when trying to get into masters 4v4/3v3: They get two team members, that counts as 4v4 random. Generally speaking if one person can hold on long enough to get 12 barracks 2 bases without the other teammates dying, it's good game. Marines imo are OP in team games.
With the new patch you can't play team games with less than the required amount of players... Eg. 2 players in a party can't play 3v3.
Do you mean future patch or current patch? Because I do it all the time.
Instead of doing team games, play 1v1 custom games with friends. If you don't have any friends your level just look around. There are so many places to get a random person your skill level to practice 1v1 with. I don't understand what's scary about playing 1v1 ladder.
On March 15 2011 08:12 underdawg wrote: random tip: pay attention to who is NOT attacking from the other team. because he's massing collosi or void rays.
Or mutas, or carriers, or thors, or battlecruisers. In 4v4 shared base maps always expect 1 person (probably the guy in the back) to go pure t3 with mass upgrades. Critical masses of 3-3 thors are practically unbeatable with marine support from a teammate.
4 Zergs: 2 go 7 roach rush, 1 goes 14 gas --> 14 pool 21 hatch --> mass speedling, other goes 14 gas 14 pool speedling with 6 banelings as soon as your baneling nest finishes. Basically from a 14 gas opening your speed finishes around the time roaches from a 7 roach rush are halfway through the map. Its such an amazing strat if you can find 3 zergs who know the build.
Or you go 3 Zergs and add a protoss so you have some semblence of anti air =/
In my opinion, 3v3/4v4 is good for those people who haven't quite decided what race they want to play. I just played random for about a hundred games to get a feel for how the mechanics of each race worked.
As for the transition from team to 1v1, I was platinum 3v3 but I was a Bronze player. Team games definitely help you get more comfortable with your race but the mindset, play style, and strategies are so totally different that very little carries over from teams to 1v1. Mechanics are so much more important in 1v1 because if you screw up, nobody is there to carry you.
I'd definitely suggest that if you've already decided on your race, you just take the plunge and start playing. The hardest part is getting started, you're so nervous you'll screw up (and you will screw up, everybody does). It's just a matter of getting over that nervousness and learning one or two builds to use against each race and focusing on mechanics. If you watch your replays, see what you did wrong, learn from it, and just keep going at it, there's no doubt that you will advance steadily (I was bronze in January and am now currently Diamond).
high level 4v4 is completely broken. at least from what ive seen its mostly teams of 3 zergs and one protoss with all the zergs going mass ten pool speedling and the toss going 4 gate stalker. but other than that 4v4 can be enjoyable as long as you dont encounter those cheese teams with 90% win ratios. If you can get past early game cheese 4v4 becomes like a normal game
From my experience, the best thing you can do in 3v3 or 4v4 games is convince everyone on your team to do a 6 minute timing push. That way you don't sacrifice much economy, and you have enough time to build up a decent army. With your initial army united that early, you should be able to take one or two down and the rest should be cake. The only thing that's going to stop you is heavy turtling or if they happen to unite their army at the same time. Or cheese
Also - study the maps and decide on a strategy based on what you find.
As a Terran I tend to do lots of MMM "sharking" on District 10, Outpost and Megaton - but its completely impossible on Extinction. By "sharking" I mean constantly moving around and snipe stuff while avoiding direct head-on battle with the opponents main army/armies. If I can keep it up and deny 2-3 expos, I've pretty much given my team a good position.
But I must agree with RedMosquito - some arranged 4v4 teams out there have found pretty unbeatable builds (and probably had a lot of practice executing them). But there are still plenty of 4v4 matches that are fun to play with random teams. Hope it stays that way for a while longer...
EPT
you need to attack at a good timing to stop it otherwise its GG
